Just thought I would get this posted up here. Some of the folks already know about it. This is to help educate the rest.

S-BATFE led raid (Joint with supporting units from BPD, Green Lake County Sheriff SWAT, and Multiple Fire departments and EMS units.)

I-Affects all units that have had commo with myself as all data on sight was taken and copied. Consider all commo compromised.

T-19 July 2006 1100 In Berlin Wisconsin at the domicile of Bladerunner

R-Unknown number of individuals. At least 2 Dozen seen by myself.  Weaponry ranges from sidearm to full swat gear and med bore rifles. Best response is to wait and continue to gather data while being on a heightened state of alert because of the compromised data. Be wary and report any contact ASAP.

E-If I am to believe what I was told an individual that I had loaned an AR to a few months ago was caught with said AR shooting it full auto at a local range.

P-Preparation, data gathering on the situation and those involved.


Back on line. As of 22 Aug 06 in the afternoon part of what was stolen from me has been returned. (Some of the PC's and electronics, but not all) So I can take questions and answer email at least, but I might not get around to email for another day or so, I have over 6k messages backed up I have to go through.

I did query special agent keeku as to whether she was in charge of the op; she said no and would not disclose who ran it. I also asked about the return of all the guns taken, she said she can't say much as of yet, but that the US attorneys office is still investigating and thinks it may be able to pursue charges of dealing firearms without a license. Not that I believe it as I have only sold around 7 guns in the past 10 years. Think they are hung up on a few of the sales being arranged over the internet off of gun broker. Will know more later, right now they are still not talking. I fully expect that if they are returning some of my stuff this soon then in 30-90 days I will probably have it all back. ?'s?

Time to toss out some more detailed information.

These are the only papers I have on this so far. Everything else is sealed. I believe it is important for everyone to know all the facts in something like this. Normally someone in my situation keeps everything under wraps. I am a firm believer that the innocent don't run or hide, they stand and fight. And those that would be asked to fight with them have the right to know everything. With such a belief and against counsel’s advice I am posting the little bit I have in the hopes that something good can come from this goat screw.

At this point it appears they are not pursuing charges of manufacturing, possession, and dealing in MG’s. But they admit to continuing an investigation for possible charges of dealing in firearms without a license. Not something I see as likely as I have only sold @7 guns in the past 10 years.

This information will be duplicated on other boards.

Warrant.



One of the evidence tags from the returned equipment.



This is the complete evidence log of everything taken from my home. At this point the computers and all related electronic equipment has been disassembled so they could copy my information and putts with the programming. As "well organized and professional" as they are, one of the pc's returned had a copy of the forensics software still in the FDD.







At this point that is everything.

Finally have some time to get an update online regardless of the threats that have been made against me. People need to continue to see the extent of the fraud in this and other cases. This is some paperwork the BATFE dropped off 2 weeks ago. For anyone familiar with law and jurisdictional issues you should find it very interesting as the first thing they want you to do is get an attorney and sign a bond that voluntarily gives up your rights and subjects you to "their" laws.

At this point it looks like they might return everything but the firearm that was loaned out. They only named that one to argue over, and argue over it I will. In the mean time I have been under a multitude of electronic attacks making it hard to stay connected to the net for any length of time without some kind of problem. The firewall helps, but only for a bit. Only comment I will make is they have some damn good techs on there end. They have kept me busy and caught me off guard at the start.

I also had my house broken into and the rest of the electronics dropped off. Found it interesting that the door was locked when we left and when we returned. That's about all I can post for now. We are waiting on a decision from the US attorney as to whether he thinks I have been "dealing" or not. Should know soon. Only 3 ways to approach that would be to classify loaning guns out, selling 1 personal gun every 2 years or so or bulk buys where everyone sings for there own receivers at a FFL dealer the same as me selling them. Don't think any of that will fly. I will take questions if you have any, and this will be cross posted on 2 other boards.

So, not being knowledgeable about the story, did you give the guy a full auto unregistered weapon??

BladeRunner,

Please keep us posted.

Keep record of what these people are like, and what tactics that they use. Interesting that you claim they used cyber-attacks on you; I have heard of other accounts like that before concerning ATF.

If this is truley an account of ATF Abuse, do contact the JPFO's "Boot the BATFE" campaign and feal free to contact me as well: ChareltonHest -at- atfabuse.com.


C.H.

Quoted: BladeRunner, Please keep us posted.

Yes, please do.

Tag.... i heard nothing of this till now.

Fouled up situation to say the least.



not to trying to sound too smartass here, but I dont imagine you'll be loaning out any guns anymore, right?


Hope everything works out for the best for ya

Quoted: So, not being knowledgeable about the story, did you give the guy a full auto unregistered weapon??

Must not have the auto email thing working here. Diden't know there was any responce till I checked today.

Short answer-NO

Quoted: BladeRunner, Please keep us posted. Keep record of what these people are like, and what tactics that they use. Interesting that you claim they used cyber-attacks on you; I have heard of other accounts like that before concerning ATF. If this is truley an account of ATF Abuse, do contact the JPFO's "Boot the BATFE" campaign and feal free to contact me as well: ChareltonHest -at- atfabuse.com. C.H.

I don't belive it was done by them, but on there behalf. I don't think there folks are capable enough to do so. I have seen memos from them regarding the computer stuff that lead me to belive that. But fleetingly I might add.

Quoted: Fouled up situation to say the least. not to trying to sound too smartass here, but I dont imagine you'll be loaning out any guns anymore, right? Hope everything works out for the best for ya

Fould up from where your sitting...should try my seat...;)

I think I will be more selective on who gets them, like keeping it to those I have known for some time. In this instance I knew very littel about him other than he seemed alright and lived just a block away. Now if I'm to take what I'm being told and what I know and put them together, someone modified my gun, and he claims he diden't do it. I'm not going to say he did as I haven't seen it since ftroop got ahold of it, and he had it for many months. Only thing I know is although I have had to replace many parts on this particular gun as it is loaned out and shot a lot, all parts were for AR-15's, not 16's and all were factory. Paperwork they have givin me say it has been modified with the pin for the sear and some fileing done on the bolt. Not sure what that would be but more will come out in time.

Quick update to what is going on. On Friday I talked with the US attorney and asked that my weapons be returned as it has been going on 5 months now. This was ftroops knee jerk response to that. Whip up a half baked criminal complaint so they wouldn’t have to return the property.

There were 1 rep each from the local PD and Sherriff. They came and politely knocked on my door around 0845 this morning and informed me the feds were coming over and they did have an arrest warrant this time. No problem, took some time to get dressed while we waited for them, they arrived (4 total), then made a few calls to get my little girl watched while we were gone. No mess about breaking doors down this time at least. They were very quite about it.

A few interesting things at the hearing with the magistrate. There has not been an indictment. But they did state to the magistrate that if they could not get an indictment they want his approval to move forward with it anyway by having a prelim hearing where he decides if it moves forward.

So far as I can tell it looks like they slapped this complaint together very quickly. It has more holes than a good piece of Swiss, plenty of creative writing, and some outright fallacies. I'll be more than happy to take questions on it to straiten the record out as to what is true and false, and what is being twisted to sound nefarious when it is not.

Quoted: At this point it appears they are not pursuing charges of manufacturing, possession, and dealing in MG’s. But they admit to continuing an investigation for possible charges of dealing in firearms without a license. Not something I see as likely as I have only sold @7 guns in the past 10 years.

If they were able to get the gun to go FA why are they not charging you with manuf., poss. of MG's?

Quoted: Quoted: At this point it appears they are not pursuing charges of manufacturing, possession, and dealing in MG’s. But they admit to continuing an investigation for possible charges of dealing in firearms without a license. Not something I see as likely as I have only sold @7 guns in the past 10 years. If they were able to get the gun to go FA why are they not charging you with manuf., poss. of MG's?

The whole mess of the case is I have never had an unregistered one. That's what the search nearly 5 months ago was supposed to turn up for them. Nothing found in any arias I control and naturally there are no witnesses to say I have ever fired an unregistered one. Whole case seams to hinge on making the claim that because the gun is owned by me I am responsible for what happens to it when it is loaned out. This particular gun is one of the oldest in my inventory and has had many parts replaced (with DPMS factory parts in most cases) due to wear out. It has been out to nearly a half dozen folks in the past @2 years. I haven't taken it to the range since I changed the barrel out on it in that time. The kid they took it from had it for the past 5 months or so dropping it off at my house for a few days before picking it up again as they state in the complaint. Of course they leave that point out of it to make it look like he just picked it up for the first time. I even gave him half a case of ammo the last time and 300 or so rounds prior to that to plink with. Shame on me for wanting others to enjoy AR-15's as much as I do I guess. The whole it is an sample gun that others get until they buy an AR from me is a crock. I don't sell guns, or even parts. Only sold around 7 personal guns in the past 10-12 years or so. I will however help others assemble the guns after they get there receiver from the FFL dealer. Now, apparently if you stay in compliance with federal law making sure folks get there own gun and then help them assemble the AR parts you are manufacturing and are engaged in unauthorized use of another’s FFL. Nothing but wishful thinking on f-troops part though as the definitions are already set in stone and are completely different from what this one agent tries to make it.

Wonder why they didn't do the indictment..... much easier and eliminates any preliminary hearing.

So, this guy that basically would need you to assemble the rifle somehow dropped in a F/A bolt and a burst group?? Seems strange to me.

Was the lower set up from the factory to accept a sear or was there a block that needed to be machined out?

Quoted: Wonder why they didn't do the indictment..... much easier and eliminates any preliminary hearing. So, this guy that basically would need you to assemble the rifle somehow dropped in a F/A bolt and a burst group?? Seems strange to me. Was the lower set up from the factory to accept a sear or was there a block that needed to be machined out?

My understanding from what was said was they have, and will continue to try to get an indictment, but so far have not been successful. It was discussed with the magistrate that if they could not they would like the hearing so he could give the ok. I won't go into my opinion of how it sounded to me.

I have no idea. Basically we do group buys similar to what AR15.com dose. I negotiate a price for x amount of kits. Kits come to my place and folks pick them up. Receivers go to the dealer and they pick them up from him. If they need assistance to put the parts together they can arrange a time to come over and I will either put it together for them or walk them through it. No manufacturing of SN parts is done here or by me, nor are there any straw buys. Someone can't get the receiver from the dealer I can't help them. Now as the ATF tries to make it sound by following federal law they allude that it might be some kind of crime. That’s the only reason I can see for the part about the “unauthorized use” part. But as anyone knows, the FFL has to be sent to a manufacture before they send firearms to a dealer. That’s what we do, as per the regs to a tee. And with the full knowledge and co operation of the local dealer.

AR's are not rocket science, but if your average idiot tried to do that and wasn’t careful they would toast the receiver. I myself have a hard time believing that he would do such a thing. Just doesn’t ring right with me. Same as the statements they say he made. It doesn’t sound like him at all. Why would you borrow a gun and start hacking away at it as the ATF claims was done?

The firearm in question was Simi from the Olympic arms factory as there model car-ar. I picked it up new in 90. One of my first few. It had, and as far as I'm concerned (till proven otherwise to me) it still has the sear block in it. Along with the old DPMS parts that replaced the factory guts when they wore out back in 94. I have never had that gun shoot full auto. But I have had it malfunction. All my ar's have had a minor malfunction at some point in time. All easily diagnosed (usually a mag issue, sometimes ammo), but never once has any been a full auto.

ATF just hit my house again. Tried scaring everyone into submission claiming I had to turn over all my guns to them that they don't know about. No court order in hand for that of course. They left shortly after with no additional firearms.

I would invest in small surveillance cameras inside the home. Document all their behavior.

Is it possible to get some kind of injunction preventing them from returning to your home unless certain criteria are met? (actual warrants)

Quoted: I would invest in small surveillance cameras inside the home. Document all their behavior. Is it possible to get some kind of injunction preventing them from returning to your home unless certain criteria are met? (actual warrants)

Money I don't have at this point. But we are looking at a legal trust fund to be used not just in the defense, but to go after them offensively for the crimes and rights violations they have committed. Don't know how well it would work though. From what I have seen in the past most folks talk a lot and when something comes up they disappear. We hang together or separately.

Not sure. I'm not used to the federal system. All my work has been on the STATE level.

ATF just hit my house again. Tried scaring everyone into submission claiming I had to turn over all my guns to them that they don't know about. No court order in hand for that of course. They left shortly after with no additional firearms.

"Hit"?  Raid or a "chat"?

Thank you for keeping us updated Blade.  We can't fight these guys if we don't know what they are up to.


C.H.

This part is ridiculous:

"A Claim of Ownership must be accompanied by a Cost Bond in the amount of ten percent of the value of the subject property."

Wow, so you have to give them money to get your stolen property back.z

Quoted: This part is ridiculous: "A Claim of Ownership must be accompanied by a Cost Bond in the amount of ten percent of the value of the subject property." Wow, so you have to give them money to get your stolen property back.z

Given the vast difference in price between a AR15 and an M16 he could always hang em' on the fact they KNEW it wasn't full auto because of what they charged for it's return.

Have your attorney request the testing and procedures documentation established by the BATFE on firearms classification.  (They don't have that so he'll get a negative response but that will open a hole in the BATF's case)  Also demand that any and all testing of the firearm be videotaped, also demand to know what changes or modifications were made to the firearm (permanent or temporary) that led them to the conclusion that the firearm was a machine gun.  The BATF has been known to add conversion devices or modify the firearms themselves as they did in the case of US vs. Wrenn (added conversion devices) and with US vs. Kwan (modified the firearm themselves to make it full auto.  They actually admitted they used a dremel and other tools to do it).

Also request that the gun be examined by a qualified and very knowlegable gunsmith not associated with the BATFE or any government agency and have that gunsmith test fire the weapon if it is safe to do so and have the test firing videotaped.  

Then if they still want to screw with you, ask them for a detailed accounting of ALL machineguns in the NFRTR.  Basically, you want the number of the guns, types, etc.  You'll want a copy of the tape where the BATF guy.... Busey I think his name was basically said that the NFRTR was inaccurate... this will allow you to establish that the BATF cannot be 100% accurate in establishing if a gun is on the registry or not.  Basically you are costing them time, money and destroying their credibility as professional witnesses and law enforcement.

I'm going to send this link over to a buddy of mine who might be willing to render assistance.  I won't make any promises but I'll try.

Mike

US vs. Kwan (modified the firearm themselves to make it full auto. They actually admitted they used a dremel and other tools to do it).

Albert Kwok-Leung Kwan? The guy with the M-14? I am looking for more info on him. You wouldn't happen to have a link or more info would you?

Have your attorney request the testing and procedures documentation established by the BATFE on firearms classification. (They don't have that so he'll get a negative response but that will open a hole in the BATF's case) Also demand that any and all testing of the firearm be videotaped, also demand to know what changes or modifications were made to the firearm (permanent or temporary) that led them to the conclusion that the firearm was a machine gun.

Agreed. See: jpfo.org/hw-glover.pdf (page7)

Then if they still want to screw with you, ask them for a detailed accounting of ALL machineguns in the NFRTR. Basically, you want the number of the guns, types, etc. You'll want a copy of the tape where the BATF guy.... Busey I think his name was basically said that the NFRTR was inaccurate...

From JPFO: jpfo.org/rollcall.mp4



C.H.

Quoted: ATF just hit my house again. Tried scaring everyone into submission claiming I had to turn over all my guns to them that they don't know about. No court order in hand for that of course. They left shortly after with no additional firearms. "Hit"?  Raid or a "chat"? Thank you for keeping us updated Blade.  We can't fight these guys if we don't know what they are up to. C.H. They ambushed my wife at home after I left. Had a not so freindly "chat" makeing threats about me and her if she and I diden't tell them about all my firearms and where they are located. I wasen't present so I won't go into more detailed hearsay of what was said. It was purly an intemidation thing to try to get to her from the sound of it.

Quoted: This part is ridiculous: "A Claim of Ownership must be accompanied by a Cost Bond in the amount of ten percent of the value of the subject property." Wow, so you have to give them money to get your stolen property back.z

No, you have to give them up to 5k just to sit down and talk about your guns. They don't guarantee they will give squat back without a court order. Plus you have to agree to waive a bunch of your rights and volunteer into there federal system if you sign it. I will never wave my rights. I would rather keep my rights and sue them over it. Read it very carefully and understand what they are saying with that carefully crafted language. And remember in law the common meanings are not always what we use in a word. Plus when citing certain sections of a statue or code they can use special definitions. And can be a bit hard to follow, but I have found if you follow the trail of bread crumbs you will find out a lot of very interesting things. Not all of them what you would think at first.

Quoted: Quoted: This part is ridiculous: "A Claim of Ownership must be accompanied by a Cost Bond in the amount of ten percent of the value of the subject property." Wow, so you have to give them money to get your stolen property back.z Given the vast difference in price between a AR15 and an M16 he could always hang em' on the fact they KNEW it wasn't full auto because of what they charged for it's return.

We might know that, but a 18 year old wouldn’t unless he was in this culture to start. I don't think it would matter in this situation anyway. The current accusation in just that I knowingly transfers a auto to him. An impossibility as it is a simi. Until they prove to me otherwise I still think it is. They haven't even had a technician look at it for a detailed report yet. Something they like to not do unless you push for it. And if you follow the complaint they are trying to use definitions from the tax code (title 26 private law) for the weapons laws (title 18 public law).

Originally Posted By Hard Rock: Have your attorney request the testing and procedures documentation established by the BATFE on firearms classification.  (They don't have that so he'll get a negative response but that will open a hole in the BATF's case)  Also demand that any and all testing of the firearm be videotaped, also demand to know what changes or modifications were made to the firearm (permanent or temporary) that led them to the conclusion that the firearm was a machine gun.  The BATF has been known to add conversion devices or modify the firearms themselves as they did in the case of US vs. Wrenn (added conversion devices) and with US vs. Kwan (modified the firearm themselves to make it full auto.  They actually admitted they used a dremel and other tools to do it). Also request that the gun be examined by a qualified and very knowlegable gunsmith not associated with the BATFE or any government agency and have that gunsmith test fire the weapon if it is safe to do so and have the test firing videotaped.   Then if they still want to screw with you, ask them for a detailed accounting of ALL machineguns in the NFRTR.  Basically, you want the number of the guns, types, etc.  You'll want a copy of the tape where the BATF guy.... Busey I think his name was basically said that the NFRTR was inaccurate... this will allow you to establish that the BATF cannot be 100% accurate in establishing if a gun is on the registry or not.  Basically you are costing them time, money and destroying their credibility as professional witnesses and law enforcement. I'm going to send this link over to a buddy of mine who might be willing to render assistance.  I won't make any promises but I'll try. Mike

It is something we can do. But I don't think it would impact this case. It is not an auto weapon, never has been, and I have been the only owner. It has just primarily been out of my hands for the last nearly 2 years. But their reply would be useful if it was incorrect. I think we will have plenty of evidence they are full of it by the looks of the last affidavit though. It has more crap in it that a 100 year old out house.

sad to hear that they are putting you through the ringer...
is berlin wisconsin annother name for new berlin?
hearing about your experiences, i will def. not be loaning anny firearms out now

Quoted: is berlin wisconsin annother name for new berlin?

Nope. New Berlin is near Milwalkee. Berlin is West of Oshkosh around 15 Minutes.

Just an update. They hit up my parents this morning with similar intimidation tactics used on the wife. They also made claims the wife said things she says she didn’t. Their desperation continues. Any bets on how many family members, neighbors, co-workers, past and present they will try this on?

Hope it all works out for you.

I'm sure it will. Just going to be a bit of a fight in the mean time. It's a good example of how to get in the $hit without doing anything more than loaning a perfectly legal weapon out.

Lesson is know who you’re lending them out to better than I did in this case.

Quoted: Lesson is know who you’re lending them out to better than I did in this case.

A better lesson still:

Never loan ANYONE ANYTHING... especially not a FIREARM.

Quoted: Quoted: Lesson is know who you’re lending them out to better than I did in this case. A better lesson still: Never loan ANYONE ANYTHING... especially not a FIREarm MAN.

Fixed

I've read this twice now and its awefully confusing.

Was your gun actually an MG?  First it says the person who borrowed it fired in tri-burst then the feds say that they tested it and it fired full auto.  I mean how does this happen?  Did you do anything too it?  I have heard stories on AKs where broken disconnector springs caused full auto fire; I don't know if that happens with ARs.

Quoted: I've read this twice now and its awefully confusing. Was your gun actually an MG?  First it says the person who borrowed it fired in tri-burst then the feds say that they tested it and it fired full auto.  I mean how does this happen?  Did you do anything too it?  I have heard stories on AKs where broken disconnector springs caused full auto fire; I don't know if that happens with ARs.

Join the crowd. That gun, as I bought it, and had it, is a SIMI auto. The feds haven't gotten a tech report so no one knows what the gun looks like now. I have been denied repeated requests to get anything more than the word of an agent. And I don't trust them as all they have done is repeatedly lie. So at this point I have no proof that it has been altered in any way. Until I see it or get a professional gunsmith to look at it I can't say what it is now, only what it was when I had it.

Filed on the bolt for FA huh?

these guys are dumber than the average ARFCOM Noob troll.

Bladerunner2347,

Has your lawyer had any luck getting a response from the authorities?

Mark

Have you gotten an attorney?  Unfortunately it looks like your gonna have to spend money to get out of this.

Obviously they are retarded.  There's half a dozen hippocritical statements in both of those reports.  I'm curious where the bolt was filed down? lol.  So i can file a part of the bolt, make no other alterations, not use an auto sear, and my gun will run in full auto?

When is your next date in court?  And what part of the trial is it

Quoted: Bladerunner2347, Has your lawyer had any luck getting a response from the authorities? Mark

Not as of yet. They have remained beligerent about it.

Quoted: Have you gotten an attorney?  Unfortunately it looks like your gonna have to spend money to get out of this. Obviously they are retarded.  There's half a dozen hippocritical statements in both of those reports.  I'm curious where the bolt was filed down? lol.  So i can file a part of the bolt, make no other alterations, not use an auto sear, and my gun will run in full auto? When is your next date in court?  And what part of the trial is it

Yes I have an attorney for now. He will primarily help me as counsel. There are things I do that he can't. (Disbarment)

I agree with the changing statements. But as we all know a liar has to keep lying to cover up the trail of lies they leave.

And I'm interested to see what butchering may have been done to anything, not just the bolt. But yes, what they are saying dose not make since. That's why they are field agents and not techs. Give me 30 sec. with it and I would know all.

And on the last part let’s keep the record present and strait. They went and had me bonded because I demanded my property back after they had it for going on 5 months. There currently are no charges pending. They just wanted me tied down for now. We are supposed to have another meeting on the 6th of Dec to see if any of there repeated attempts at going in front of a grand jury has worked. So far it has not. If they have any idea what kind of $hit sandwich they are being fed it will stay that way. If they continue to be unsuccessful with the GJ I can't say what they will do. The appropriate thing would be to apologize and return all my property. Most likely because we have a 12 years history they will try to come up with something else. My guess is I'm too much of a liability for them to keep alive.

Quoted: Join the crowd. That gun, as I bought it, and had it, is a SIMI auto.

About 5 times now you've insisted this gun was "SIMI" auto...  Am I missing something here or do you mean to say it was "SEMI" auto?

Damn man.  I am only a few minutes away and this is the first I have heard of this.  Scary.

Quoted: Quoted: Join the crowd. That gun, as I bought it, and had it, is a SIMI auto. About 5 times now you've insisted this gun was "SIMI" auto...  Am I missing something here or do you mean to say it was "SEMI" auto?

Guess that got past me...

Quoted: Damn man.  I am only a few minutes away and this is the first I have heard of this.  Scary.

Not sure why, but they have been keeping a tight lid on this. Not a peep in any news sources on any of the raids or nuttin. If you’re not on one of 4 boards I've posted this on, a LEO around here, or know me in proper person, you most likely wouldn’t know this is going on.

I still dont see how the gun malfuntioned to shoot 3 round bursts with out someone doing something to the gun intentionally. what am i missing here?? was this gun ever converted to full auto or 3rnd burst at anytime? or has it always been a SEMI auto weapon? man this is some crazy stuff. I hope it all works out for you.

Quoted: I still dont see how the gun malfuntioned to shoot 3 round bursts with out someone doing something to the gun intentionally. what am i missing here?? was this gun ever converted to full auto or 3rnd burst at anytime? or has it always been a SEMI auto weapon? man this is some crazy stuff. I hope it all works out for you.

It has always been semi. At no time has it ever been modified to be anything but while in my possession. Now the kid has had it for many months so in theory something could have been done, but the way they say he said things in the complaint doesn’t sound right. Plus I have caught them lying on many things. So without verification as far as I'm concerned it is still a semi auto till they can show me different.

Crazy yes, and one hell of a headach. Diden't think I would have to deal with these guys after the last run in 12 years ago.

Quoted: Quoted: I still dont see how the gun malfuntioned to shoot 3 round bursts with out someone doing something to the gun intentionally. what am i missing here?? was this gun ever converted to full auto or 3rnd burst at anytime? or has it always been a SEMI auto weapon? man this is some crazy stuff. I hope it all works out for you. It has always been semi. At no time has it ever been modified to be anything but while in my possession. Now the kid has had it for many months so in theory something could have been done, but the way they say he said things in the complaint doesn’t sound right. Plus I have caught them lying on many things. So without verification as far as I'm concerned it is still a semi auto till they can show me different. Crazy yes, and one hell of a headach. Diden't think I would have to deal with these guys after the last run in 12 years ago.

Well as far as the BATFEckers are concerned,  anything that pops off more than 1 round per trigger pull is a machine gun (MG = full auto?)  that would include (to them) any weapon that occasionally doubles or triples.

I believe it was the JPFOs boot the batf video which showed them going to insane ends to get a FAL to double.  could be similar happenings here.

Bladerunner- you have mentioned repeatedly that the rifle in question was a 'loaner' and that you've had to replace a lot of parts over the years.  is it possible that this particular one has seen enough wear and tear/use and abuse that it was doubling or tripleing on this guy you loaned it to, while a snitch/ATF guy happened to be at the range?

what was the exact circumstances that got their attention anyhow?  Im assuming the kid got snagged at some point, but was it at the range red-handed (so to speak), at home following up on a tip, traffic stop while transporting it, or what?  or cant yo get into that?

though i really cant imagine excessive wear and tear wearing down the bolt (of all things) to the point where it would appear to be filed down/purposefully altered.

you mentioned the purpose of the loaner rifle was for 'familiarisation' or for a 'test drive' for folks getting ready to buy thier first AR.  Was the guy you loaned it to schooled enough to know the difference between ARs and M16s?  newbies who watch too many movies and dont know the laws may not know/realize that its only supposed to fire one shot at a time, thought it was malfunctioning as a semi-only rifle and 'fixed' it for you.  then when he got called on it, decided to throw you under the bus rather than admit to doing and 'fixing' on the rifle...




..just thinking out loud here and grasping at straws trying to come up with a reasonable explanation for all this...

Not a peep in any news sources on any of the raids or nuttin. If you’re not on one of 4 boards I've posted this on, a LEO around here, or know me in proper person, you most likely wouldn’t know this is going on.

Isn't that the truth!

Evil men, like the ATF, rely on darkness...sealed warrants, cordoning off the free-press(though most of the time the MSM is a sympathizer with their cause), and intimidation(fear to speak up)..to operate. One of their main goals is to score points through headlines with the ignorant sheeple. To justify their existence and expand is the natural course of a Gov't Bureaucracy.

Cameras are powerful, and so is the internet. We would not know what was going on, if you had not come foreward.

I have posted your story here: LP Thread


On another note, I know caution is a good thing when loaning to another person, but no man should have to fear his Gov't to the point where we are supposed to be running background checks on our neighbors before being able to associate with them or exersise rights together.  The ATF would like us all to scared to loarn guns to one another, to shoot with a friend that might have some mark on his record from years past, or to even identify ourselves as gun-owners publicly. This is America, and we shouldn't have this fear.   This trouble that has come on you is the fault of an oppresive, rouge Gov't agency.

Godspeed Blade.


Sincerely, C.H.

Bladerunner- you have mentioned repeatedly that the rifle in question was a 'loaner' and that you've had to replace a lot of parts over the years.  is it possible that this particular one has seen enough wear and tear/use and abuse that it was doubling or tripleing on this guy you loaned it to, while a snitch/ATF guy happened to be at the range?

I wasn’t at the range so I can’t say what happened there.

As to the parts I had a lot of problems initially with the oly arms parts in the early 90’s. Trigger groups would go bad very quickly and the bolts would bust. In 94 the trigger group was replaced with a set from DPMS and as far as I know it hasn’t had a problem since. But I haven’t shot this one in around 2 years, but no major problems have been reported to me. On the other hand it has seen a ton of use. But I won’t know anything till I can get an official tech report or a pro gunsmith to look at it.

what was the exact circumstances that got their attention anyhow?  Im assuming the kid got snagged at some point, but was it at the range red-handed (so to speak), at home following up on a tip, traffic stop while transporting it, or what?  or cant yo get into that?

Don’t mind going into it.

This is the abbreviated version.

Kid calls me from the range to say the cops were harassing him. Not unusual as some of the trap and skeet guys hate ugly black guns and the cops have been out to bug us before. When I asked why, referring to the visit he said because he was firing rapidly. No biggy as many of us have done that out there. Cops came to his house and threatened him and his family until he gave them the gun later on that day if I remember correctly. They stated they were ordered to confiscate it pending an ATF investigation. That’s when I started bugging them about it. Way I see it there was no reason for this level of harassment.

though i really cant imagine excessive wear and tear wearing down the bolt (of all things) to the point where it would appear to be filed down/purposefully altered.

Me either.

you mentioned the purpose of the loaner rifle was for 'familiarisation' or for a 'test drive' for folks getting ready to buy thier first AR.  Was the guy you loaned it to schooled enough to know the difference between ARs and M16s?  newbies who watch too many movies and dont know the laws may not know/realize that its only supposed to fire one shot at a time, thought it was malfunctioning as a semi-only rifle and 'fixed' it for you.  then when he got called on it, decided to throw you under the bus rather than admit to doing and 'fixing' on the rifle...

No, he seamed pretty new to guns. Have no idea what he has said as no statements have been released and I wouldn’t get it until discovery. I don’t get that until they get an indictment.

..just thinking out loud here and grasping at straws trying to come up with a reasonable explanation for all this...

I’m at the center of and I’m still trying to find out what the explanation is.