To be crystal clear here, we primarily sell NV units with Harris tubes, that makes up the bulk of what we sell and will likely remain so. However we also offer some units with L3 tubes and the customer is always welcome to request said tubes.

Photonis has also entered the marketplace and offers some great values in tubes, especially in White Phosphor tubes.

However there has been a lot of confusion (?) relating to the ECHO grade of Photonis tubes.

As someone who has been in business for 27 years now, I always strive to find out answers for customers as best I can. And there has been a lot of questions regarding some confusion on the ECHO grade of Photonis tubes. I believe some of this is created confusion, but let's just call it confusion never the less.

So when we went to SHOT Show last month we spent some time talking with three high ups from Photonis. My goal was to get some SOLID answers to questions customers have been asking about these units and to clear up some of the confusion related to these tubes.

Here is the transcript from another thread covering the discussion-

Just today I had another question from an AR15.com member asking me if Photonis "tinkered with" ECHO spec tubes to somehow make them less efficient. Why they would do that I'm not sure??? Really makes no sense for a company to lessen the value of their product.... but the person asked so I wanted to be sure to give him the correct answer.

So today I emailed Photonis and here is the transcript from that.

So here is the reply I received just a little while ago-

So to summarize-

1. ECHO tubes are the commercial grade versions of the INTENS tubes.
2. ECHO tubes absolutely operate out of band the same as ITENS tubes do- verified two different times now.
3. ECHO tubes are not modified, "tinkered with", nerfed, derfed or perfed... to in any way to hobble their performance.

The question was asked are the Photonis tube "filmless"

No Photonis does not categorize their tubes that way that is a US standard. Here is the response I received from Photonis a while back when I asked that question.

Keep the questions coming, we are happy to help and clear up any questions regarding these tubes! Thanks again
Robert

Can you ask them if all their tubes are gen 2?

edited

I know the ECHO's because of the way the US classification system works are considered Gen 2.

But the ECHOs tend to have some numbers that rival American Gen 3 tubes-

I've said all along however that people may find a higher re-sale value in an Harris or L3 3rd gen tube. The further along we get and the more people get used to Photonis units, I suspect that gap will start to close however.

And I think resale value is something to consider- I talk to a lot of folks that: got in a car accident, had health issues, got a divorce, new baby, etc. that are looking at selling their NV to raise some cash for these things. Warranty factors in also in resale value.

Thanks for the info

I wish I had some questions I could think of but nothing comes directly to mind. Due to price I think Photonis is a major player now, back when I had originally gotten into NV you didn't hear nearly as much about them. The general mindset was "Gen 2 cheapo", (this was before white phosphor was a common thing here) but it seems they've really stepped their game up.

Just to get an idea of tube price difference, what do you charge for a MIL-SPEC PVS-14 with L3 FL WP tube vs MIL-SPEC PVS-14 housing with Photonis WP tube?

I'm confused by the value or cost savings perceived or real on these Echos. On your website (I just looked) the Echo -14's are $2,799.00 and Harris HP+ $2,899. The BNVD's however have a $2k savings Echo vs Harris.

I'm like to try one out but it'd have to be way cheaper than gen 3 for me to bite.

About a $ 1,000 to 1,500. 'ish difference in price between a WP ECHO tube unit and a Harris WP HP+ or L3 unit.

Not bad dude. 1k-1.5k savings per tube is nothing to sneeze at. Guess I should shut up now before I get falsely accused of being your shill again.

Well to be perfectly honest, part of that difference with the 14's has to do with the fact that we sell a ton of Harris HP+ PVS14 units, so over the years we have gotten some good discounts and we have passed the savings on.

When we first looked at the ECHO tubes, the green was pretty much same price as white. I didn't bother with the green ECHOs because of that. The value is in their WP tubes in my opinion.

And the BNVD's with Photonis ECHO tubes were/are kind of a special deal- basically I wanted to offer the lowest price we could on a  true set of duals that articulated and the ECHO spec tubes made that happen. They also are on sale temporarily so that makes the price look better than it normally would as well.

No worries brother. If/when we do actually do business together, I'll get you the best deal I can.

@lowdown
Hmmm. Can you get 10160's or just 11769's?

Lets just say man to man you have the type of personality I can respect. If I do end up buying new I will be buying from you.

PM sent

Hahahahaha.

We were specifically told the opposite of this by a particular (((vendor))) on this site, who are completely cucked by L3.

Imagine my shock that they were full of shit.

L3 are definitely cucks

the night vision pricing game is a sham

Along with their shyster-assed, Snake-oil peddling lackeys in the retail sector.

Hey I love L3 products. The funny thing is my preferred red dot, EOTech. Preferred LAM, Insight. Preferred tube, L3.

That being said and to stay in line with this thread- I don't hate the idea of giving Photonis tubes a shot anymore tho. The (slightly? moderately?) lower performance in extreme low light being my only real concern vs my L3 tube.

Even TNVC will tell you that Photonis 4G Intens lag only barely behind L3 Filmless in low light situations.

4G Intens generally cost as much or more than L3 Filmless, so the question is are the other properties offered by 4G Intens worth it to you?

Robert, Those spec look real impressive. If I where looking to get another system I'd defiantly be looking at GP Echo tubes. I'm not a huge fan of WP because of the bluish tint and according to TNVC AUGEE the Echo tubes are worse vs the L3 tubes which may be a good thing since I'm still living in the Dog House because of my recent BNVD P+ purchase. A lot of times I don't want to read your threads because it's so tempting to buy another system due to the excellent products you have and the price you advertise.

I would definitely need to try some out first because I'm just not sure to be honest. I don't think I've even looked through a Photonis tube now that I think about it. But definitely something I will be putting some more research into as I head through my quest for duals.

I’ve got a pair of 4G Intens (for the moment) and their image is pretty awesome. They do have an obvious blue tint to the image, but I find it nice.

When I evetually get some Duals, I hope I can swing the WP.

The value in the full spec Intens 4G for me is the one I currently own has the best screen cosmetics of any tube I’ve purchased last 15 years.

It’s very clean no chicken wire, no shading just nothing other than a couple tiny tiny few micro specs that you can’t see at all outdoors or indoors other than maybe a high light white wall test. Reminds me of some of the good old ITT (now Harris) tubes from the late 90’s/ early 2000’s.

That said in real low light rural area my L3 filmless tubes are noticeably brighter period just how it is. That said the 4G doesn’t require IR to make a good image it’s still impressive overall also the Filmless is just a touch better in those conditions.

Overall I like the two WP Echos I have also in a bino housing very nice performers overall and great value for the cost.

The ECHO tubes have a slightly blue look, "onyx" is the term used I believe. Coming from a green background I didn't find the transition too bad.

We appreciate your business, thanks again!

Good info fellas

As to the part I highlighted in red, my last tube was exactly that. 1999 production ITT (I think it was OMNI 5 if I recall, maybe 4)

I was highly impressed with that tube ESPECIALLY for its age.

Once again I would highly suggest anyone interested in finding these things out for themselves contact the manufacturer.

Once again I will say that we offer Harris, L3 and Photonis units. If a place or person were pushing just one type of tube, you would expect some biased info as others have noted this to be elsewhere.

Once again,  I do not use a particular name of a person or company out of respect for the site staff, moderators and those here reading. That should not be seen as weakness but rather as respect for the site. A perfect example of this would be that I did not freak out when someone from that same company was one of the first ones to post a reply in this thread I started. Yet a few years ago I inadvertently posted a positive comment about a FLIR item in another person's thread with absolutely no marketing for myself attempted and was almost immediately hit up with a private message asking that I stay out of their threads and they would do the same. I immediately sent a "my mistake" apology reply and honored that request- even though it has not been honored twice now on their end. And site rules ask that vendors don't engage each other in the same thread. I have shown respect and courtesy although it was never reciprocated. I do not send "unhinged PM's" to people that disagree with me nor threaten to get people banned that disagree with me. It would seem that it's a bigger deal to not use someone's name or company name than it is to post information direct from the source???

Also, think about it, it's an open forum viewable to anyone in the world to see any person's or companies thoughts or claims on certain matters.

I highly suggest anyone interested in any product from any manufacturer contact said manufacturer to verify claims and/or answer questions relating to the product. Real "research" relates to doing things like that, not simply reading marketing materials from a company selling an opposing product.

“Akshually”

This is a clever way of being deceptive.

What the omission in the quote is: the Photonis tubes also outperform the majority of Gen 3 filmed tubes as well, and are eclipsed only by filmless.

Oh, and what nobody wants to point out, or mention, is the decay curve in performance on their tubes. Because if it was widely known, nobody would buy anything other than the Photonis stuff.

But why would you believe me? I’m just a guy on the internet, and people have stuff to sell you, and they’re selling it to you because they love you.

L3 are massive fucking cucks, and should suck a dick.

A few others have posted similar notations. Not the first or the fifteenth time I've heard mention of the degradation of performance over time with L3 tubes.

Not confirming or denying that one way or the other, but L3/Eotech does have a bit of a shady past as far as telling the truth about things- witness the Eotech debacle a few years ago where soldiers were getting overseas and finding issues with zero with their Eotechs. L3/Eotech seemed to hide the issue. I remember when it broke, we used to sell those sights. I got a lot of calls, emails, etc. from concerned customers. Some were .mil and LEO that used these daily and depended their lives on them- they NEEDED to know. After not getting any answer on it, we decided to stop carrying their sights.

So L3 tubes degrade over time depending on usage. Copy. All tubes will certainly.

But at what rate rate of performance degradation can be expected typically? I assume it is linear correct?

L3 tubes may be superior to photonis with respect to brute performance but what good is that if said performance level only lasts for the first 500 hours? That's a random number I pulled by the way

Just like OOB claims I'd like some info from the mfg or what-not regarding this claim of L3 tubes degrading more than filmed tubes. Sounds fair?

If you’re willing to put in the research, the answer is easily obtainable.

It’s, yet another, aspect of smoke and mirrors to the entire industry. Jrh is doing the Lord’s work, and it’s much appreciated, and a breath of fresh air.

edited

Considering how many newbies to NVD's come here looking for info and most likely make buying decisions based on what the find here, I personally feel you'd be doing the NVD user community solid by just spitting it out publicly. I'm in the boat of deciding some new purchases and one of those considerations would be L3 filmless vs "extra hand selected" thin filmed Harris or L3.

Hey Sam,

I would appreciate it and I think Vic would also, if both parties kept out of the threads each others start as we agreed to a few years ago.

Nothing at all against you, just keeping with the spirit of the private message Vic sent me a few years ago when I inadvertently posted a positive comment about a FLIR unit without any marketing of myself or company in a thread he started and was immediately messaged by him about it asking that I not post in you all's threads and he agreed you all would do the same.

Again, nothing at all against you. BTW I wished I rocked out on the guitar like you do

Thanks in advance- Robert

One thing i like about Photonis tubes is the high light performance.

In and around alley ways, street lamps and looking in and out of lit and dark areas the Photnonis are nuts.

To be honest, being as we live in a rural area with no cities nearby, closest houses a couple hundred yards away and not a lot of "city glow" type light anywhere around, I'm not personally super familiar with their high light performance but your comments mirror other comments I've heard from customers. I will make time to drive to a large city here soon and check this out for myself.

We live in a rural area -not in a big city in California- and any pics/video we have ever put out relating to NV are always done in a rural area. I feel this more realistically shows the effectiveness of the device versus these pics that others put up where you can see SIDEWALKS in the pics, light reflecting off the other houses 10 yards away, etc. all the while they are touting how well they do in "low light." I'm sorry, but no one believes that when you post pics that include SIDEWALKS and suburbs to prove your point!

Further, since our main market has normally been people preparing for SHTF type scenarios, taking NV pics in the well light suburbs does not really reflect the usefulness of the device in regards to a SHTF scenario. A deep dark rural area that does not have SIDEWALKS and suburbs in the pics more realistically shows the capabilities of units.

Of course if you were trying to make everything look better, yeah then you would take pics that have sidewalks in them and where you could see light reflecting off of the McMansions in the area... But we don't do that :)

I've stated in countless threads here what we have witnessed with the ECHO spec tubes and what they are and what they aren't. You can look at my EE listing for the Photonis PVS14's and see actual specifications customers have received- pretty damn transparent.  I've always been extremely forthright when asked and tell people that yes you will see more blems in Zone 2 and Zone 3 than you will in say a Harris High Performance model tube.

Seems to be someone who thinks he is clever cherry picking of what I've stated, including the comment about L3/Eotech and the lying about their specs on the holographic sights issue, none of what I stated there related to any company other than L3/Eotech. I have abundantly talked about "specs" and all one has to do is look at my EE listing for the Photonis to see actual #'s customers have been getting. And we list minimums for all units on our site, versus not listing any #s at all.

"Who's telling the truth?" Well that's for you to decide, are 4 people from the Photonis company, NV Gurus like Ed Wilcox and anyone who disagrees with a certain someone's bold claims all lying? Or perhaps did someone else just get a little too crazy with their accusations and they have now blown up in his face? That's for you to decide. I posted the findings from the people I've talked to, and ONCE AGAIN I encourage anyone interested to contact these folks themselves, versus believing either party.

Finally, as I've stated from the onset, the ECHO spec tubes are not the end all be all. You will find more blems in Zone 2 and Zone 3 than you would say a Harris High Performance (HP+) grade tube. Interestingly enough I had a guy that's posted in this thread PM me a little while back stating that he was thinking about selling his HP+ Harris unit to buy an ECHO spec Photonis. My reply started with "any reason why you want to do that?"  Could I have lied and got a sale? Probably, but that's not ethical. I told the guy your probably better off with what you have now and might have missed a sale by telling the truth. But that's what you should do in business and it's worked for us for 27 years now.

What you buy and who you buy from as a consumer is totally up to you. But be sure if you have questions that you go to the source, which is what I did with these communications with Photonis in an effort to get correct information to consumers.

Here is a what Ed Wilcox, an NV guru, thinks about the Photonis ECHO spec tubes-

Ebay listing for Ed Wilcox Photonis ECHO spec

I’m the guy JRH is referencing. I guess what I’m missing here and considering I’m not an NVD virgin, I can only imagine newbies are as, if not, more confused.

Specs-wise what you list for those Echo’s you’ve sold are higher than the specs on the HP+ -14’s I’m selling. So if specs are specs, then these Echos are better than HP+ no?
*edit: “Selling” as in I am trying to sell my -14’s to buy something else

That’s what doesn’t make sense to me, to say I’m better off with the HP+’s when on paper it should be the other way around.

The only way to really know would be to see it for yourself and I understand that. Most of us hobbyists don’t have the money to spend trying stuff out so we rely on forums like this to give accurate info to aid in making purchases.

So, straight up, if someone was going to buy a PVS-14 and wanted the better performing tube, forget blems, would you recommend HP+ or Echo?

Technically the Photonis ECHO spec are considered Gen2 for a number of reasons already laid out, so that could be considered a bit of a negative whereas a Harris HP+ is a true Gen 3 Pinnacle. As I've stated before, that difference might hinder resale value later if a person ever needed/wanted to sell the unit. Being a true Gen 3 and ITT/Harris being a better known name currently in the US, that also might affect resale value.

The HP+ unit will be cleaner as far as blems, no doubt there and I have stated that since day 1.

I see it not so much as which is better, but if you want green than definitely the HP+ is the way to go. If you want white the choice *FOR ME* was an ECHO spec unit. I have not used a Photonis echo tube IN GREEN nor do I see much point in carrying them- their great value is in the White IMO.

The problem with saying "I would recommend this one over that one" is the whole beauty is in the eye of the beholder deal. I personally like green tubes a lot and I like a pretty clean tube and prefer a cleaner tube over a slightly higher spec tube that has a few blems in it. That is *JUST ME*, other people have stated they don't give a damn about a few blems, just want really high SN or really good EBI, etc. So everyone is different in what they want in a tube, just like some of like brunettes or blonds or redheads :)

All that being said, I drove over to our range a little while ago (it's less than 10 minutes from the house so ultra convenient) and took some pics with an ECHO spec PVS14 we have.

Conditions- 1/2 moon night, pretty clear out. Rural area, middle of nowhere, nope you aren't going to see any sidewalks or reflections off suburban houses in any of these pics!

First up, a pic in the woods, pine forest at the SETG range. Folks that have been to our range may recognize some of the setting :) Needless to say no ambient light in the area whatsoever.



Just a crappy I phone pic with that $15. camera adapter deal someone posted about a few months ago.

Next up, same wooded area, pic of a palmetto, a wee bit out of focus, I don't claim to be a photographer LOL



Range area pic, excavator



Several folks asked about high light situations and the ECHO units. on my drive back the best I could find was a pretty bright streetlight. I took this pic a little out of focus. Like I've mentioned a few times now, we don't live in a high light city environment with sidewalks in the pics, but I will try to bring a unit with me next time we go to a large city and take some pics in high light situations for those that are curious about this- for now this is the best I got on that...

No offense but you answered the question below kind of like a politician. Usually people do want to buy the one with the best specs.

So what you’re saying is if someone wants green (which no one does anymore) you tell them HP+. Someone wants white phosphor you tell them Echo over the Harris WHP+ (white phosphor HP+). Is that right?

Thanks for posting the pics.

I’m pretty interested in that answe as well. I am new to night vision and I am currently debating between the Echo and the HP+. I’m not really sure if I have a preference to green or white,

I only rock green. The wp tubes screw with my colorblindness.

ROTFLMAO!!

I don't typically make buying decisions for customers, they usually do that on their own. But at risk of being called a politician again, here is what *I*  have in my family's stock-   In green phosphor we have Harris PVS14 HP+ models and BNVD-Single Gain with HP+ tubes, happy as hell with all of them. In white Phosphor we have Photonis ECHO PVS14s.  That is what *I* currently have in my own stocks.

We sell more Photonis ECHO spec WP than we do Harris WHP+ units. Do I "tell them" one over the other, nope, I tell them the differences (similar to what I've stated countless times here) and ask them if they feel the extra $1,000. would be worth it to them or would it better be spent on an IR laser, helmet, etc.?? You know, it's the CUSTOMER'S MONEY not mine, and it's up to them to determine what the value to them is. I'd give you that same spiel on the phone, over email or on PM as you well know from PM'ing me.

I feel like when you put it all on the line and tell a customer "this is the freaking best ever blah blah blah" you set yourself up for failure. I remember about 10 years ago now at a public campout we used to host for folks and teach various outdoor skills, some general H2H stuff, weapons disarms, etc. A very, very analytical guy came up to me and asked me to look over a unit he bought from some other company. His eyes were wide like a kid showing off his first Daisy Red Ryder to someone. He pulled out a bastardized PVS14 clone that took a CR123 battery, had a lot of non mil spec parts and had a huge crayola crayon size blem in Zone 2. "What do you think, this was "hand selected by ......" Cool man, did you get a good deal, what does the data sheet show? "I paid $3,500. I didn't get a data sheet."  What do you say to that? Do you tell him he got totally screwed? Or did he realize that when he looked at a new unit we brought that was only $2,600. at the time and was actually a PVS14 with AA battery, Pinnacle autogated, full warranty, data sheet with it etc. ??

I truly believe beauty is in the eye of the beholder and for *that* particular fellow, the value was there for him in that bastardized 14 with non standard parts. Did I see the value in that? Hell no. But we are two very different people.

I'm Robert Henry and I endorse this message.... Ooops, sorry for sounding like a politician again LOL

Next time I go over to the range I'll take an HP+ green and take some pics with that also and try to post them side by side for you all to decide which unit you prefer. Maybe that will help.

Fair enough. The issue for new users to this community is that they don’t know what to buy so they can’t make better informed decisions for themselves. They have to rely on the dealer or seller to help them and if they’re lucky get good info online.

That'd be great Robert. Could you also post specs if you have them available for both tubes? Also on average where would you place the Echo tube on the Omni scale as far as low light performance? Thanks

I’ve owned a few different NVG systems, used them for a considerable time in the army and like to read a lot before I buy.

I said this before to another guy in the community a little while back: I’m so offput by the fact that no one can get a straight answer on anything NVG related. It’s like the used car sales atmosphere of the firearms/whatever industry. It’s extremely discouraging. The problem is that it’s not a $12 magazine or a $80 trigger or even a $1400 upper. It’s multiple thousands of dollars that people are going to spend and expect a certain return from it.

I think part of this is that NVG is a super niche, high cost endeavor for most and the customers are slim pickings. So everyone is trying to sell their shit. Couple this with the fact that a lot of the performance data is understood by so few. I mean we can look up what a good performance number should be and gauge that to our sheet that came with our unit but most of us do t have 20 sets of 14s to look through to compare before we buy.

Finally, we are often asked to plop down our cash on the word that this shit is better than that shit without any try before you buy or comparison or whatever. Then, we are asked to wait sometimes weeks before we actually get our new unit and hope we made the right choice.

It’s ripe for dishonesty. Make sure you are careful here. I’m not accusing anyone or any vendor of dishonesty but it only adds the the ambiguity of the purchase.

Maybe, as the most prominent leaders in the commercial NVG arena, you all come up with a way to allow us to make better informed decisions. I mean I can’t just walk into a local ffl and try out NVG. Perhaps less of the back and forth rhetoric and more commercial sales solutions would  be a force multiplier to your businesses. Just my $.02.

Throwing back to perhaps the greatest post I've read online

NSFjojo

you get the photonis because your bino bridge will break before your tube does. What difference is a ten vs two year warranty when most the shit that goes wrong is user error? Let me repeat this for the stubborn in the back:

Are you a normal, thoughtful, reasonable person? Then go Gen 2 because Gen 3 is a disposable item and designed to make cucked up pieces of shit like L3 monies for decades. Gen 2 won't break. Gen 2 is better oob. Gen 2 is the future. Gen 3, is shitty.

Unless you're doing star gazing or science, tits through a window are pretty much the same in green, chrome (cyborg titties best titties) thin filmed, thick filmed for her pleasure or no film because you like space herpes.

You guys are aware they burn tubes in house to error check them before shipping right? Probably for longer than any of you use them the next year after the first month of omg I apex now. Your tubes will break if you do these things:

1: leave them on when you shouldn't
2: live in an environment composed of helium
3: you bought L3 shit and they bent you over with the promise of high specs and gucci shit but failed to tell you in reality no one gives a fuck and all tubes dim, dipshit. Your specs last a year, less under real usage.
4: you drop them and you didn't buy Gen 2. Bonus if you have a panic attack, post here, realize it's just debris. That poor dude was probably beating himself up so hard over that.

If something was going to go wrong when they make a tube, they rip the top off, sell it without markings and who gives a fuck since most of you are waaaay to involved in giving a fuck about specs so you'd never buy it anyway. Overpaying is the new/old status symbol I guess. You even think that tubes aren't disposable pieces of shit designed to line the pockets of L3. The funny thing is in the NVG business, telling the truth costs you money.

Also, RNVG looks cool as shit. For those of you wondering why it's priced so cheap, it's because it's cheap as fuck to produce as ALL HOUSINGS ARE (ie ur getting played fam, the designs are mostly shit and the usage of epoxy is criminal) and the idea that any of you would even know the difference between f1.2 - f1.3. it's like +- 5% anyway. Tolerances are a bitch.

Blaming glass is so laughable. The Chinese glass is better anyway. You're going to lose more light from the shitty PVS 14 coatings than you would if you just cut the fucking glass yourself with a screwdriver. Milspec glass is shit. You know what an import objective and ocular lens costs? Don't look, you'll hate yourself for overpaying and paying for reduced specs.

Every fucking time in these threads. Look, your eyeballs can't tell the difference and if they could, use more IR. Specs only matter to astronomers and fanbois. Your friend you show won't even know how to set the ocular properly so who gives a flying fuck about 64 vs 72 vs 2200 and 18um series whatever. You. Won't. Be. Able. To. Tell. Also, Photonis is the future. L3 are cucks and should suck a dick.

Seriously bad tubes are obvious. You're not going to get that from any of the major vendors here, even the verboten ones. You guys are worse than gear whores. No one knows or cares the fom formula when you take them out. They just see in the dark. Like you will. If you would just stop being so easily duped into caring about trivial shit like specs once they get past a certain level. You're not a scientist or astronomer, you're Gary, a semisuccesful middleclass guy who puts ten hours a year on your tubes but worries about a ten year warranty vs a two year warranty. Holy shit stop.

Also, whomst makes the RNVG and others:

STOP PUTTING ONBOARD IR LIGHTS, IT'S STUPID, IT'S A WASTE OF SPACE AND MATERIALS. THIS IS CURRENT YEAR +3, PUT A FUCKIN RHEOSTAT THERE BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES ABC WHEN STAR GAZING. NO ONE.

Love u my dudes. Just you all scare off the normal folks with buzzwords that don't mean shit. Stop it.

Also TNVC is kinda salty lately. I'm sorry you're salty fam, cheer up.

@chandlerkj - Perfectly said.

That is interesting @chosos are you deutan or protan color deficient? I’m assuming deutan. How would a green phosphorus tune enhance your ability to distinguish different shades better than white?

I’m deutan deficient.

mild Deutan, but only in one eye. How strange is that?

This is how you take a suggestion/opinion piece and make it sound less believable; your know-it-all comes off as know-nothing personal opinions because of all the ad hominems. You might as well be telling us why Hi-Point is better than Les Baer by the way you present it.

And this just makes you sound like an idiot. Not everyone lives on reddit or is <14.

Constructive advice for when you want your opinion to be taken seriously.

Because people get literally fucking autistic about this shit.

Firstly, L3 ARE cucks, and should suck a dick.

Secondly, my Photonis Echos were 69 lp/mm, SNR > 30. The overall image was significantly better, yes, better, in every single lighting condition when contrasted against Omni VII, and Omni VIII Tubes. I’ll even throw out that these were directly compared to current issue Gen 3 tubes. And by issued, I mean, literal Milspec. I even posted comparison images in one of the RNVG threads.

The singular type of tube they haven’t been contrasted against are L3 filmless. UNV has a video showing the difference between the Photonis tubes and L3 filmless.

I keep hearing that, “in the lowest light conditions the L3 filmless outperform the Photonis.” Hey, that’s cool, stud but check this out. If we are talking middle of Wyoming dark, at that point, you’re using supplemental IR anyway. Oh. At which point the Photonis tubes will outperform L3/Harris because the tubes are guaranteed to a MINIMUM lp/mm under high light conditions.

Certain vendors shit on Photonis because they’re scared. Full stop.

Instead of comporting themselves like professionals, they doubled down on the derp, and are in full panic/damage-control mode. It’s pathetic, and reminds me of why I stopped doing business with them.

List of fucks I give whether someone buys Echos, Intens, or L3 Unfilmed Tubes:

1)

But, when a vendor, and lets be clear here, they are a vendor, not a manufacturer, spits wild ass, abject bullshit out, that’s a disservice to the community. Jrh posted information straight from the manufacturer’s mouth. Not the vendor’s mouth; the manufacturer’s.

And just to be a fucking bastard, my Photonis Echos had higher specs than an L3 Unfilmed WP PVS-14 from a certain vendor here. So I don’t even want to fucking hear it.

NSFJojo was right. 100%.