User Panel
Posted: 11/24/2018 9:49:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ARogueNinja]
This thread will be dedicated to builds and discussions of the FBI clones and thanks to Geissele for listening to the masses and releasing the much coveted rail. Parts lists will be updated as we go. Please keep it on topic and post pictures of your builds and "in the wild" photos.
Barrel: Colt 11.5" barrels & others since there was already a mix of stuff out there between the different offices, prior to the upgrade starting. Lower: Colt/ some older DOJ contract RRA lowers, among others. Grip: ERGO/ Hogue/ A2 Upper: Most of the uppers appear to be Colt marked. Rail: Troy and Geissele, seems like the main colors for the MK4 rail are Black and OD, unsure of the others. Flash hider: A2 flashhiders/ Surefire/ KAC NT4 Optics: Aimpoint H1/T1s & H2/T2s are approved, along with the Daniel Defense mounts. The Sig Romeo4 red dot was also approved and is being used by some other federal agencies too. Spuhr mounts for Aimpoints for HRT guns. EOTech EXPS 3 & G33 Magnifier Sights: Troy BUIS/ Magpul MBUS Laser: L3 AN/ PEQ 15 Stock: CTRs Sling: VTAC 2 points/ Magpul MS Light: WMLs/ Surefire Scout More info here: Industry Thread Originally Posted By mbpike: Originally Posted By GS5414: Alright homies. I'm going to drop some knowledge, and then ghost. Folks generally got a handle on the right parts. Right now, the FBI has stopped throwing out their T2s/Spuhr mounts because folks are starting to regret replacing them with the ROMEO RDS. Things aren't holding up to abuse and long life. Who knew. You'll see the Aimpoint make a comeback. Also, nobody in this thread has the right gas block. Geissele gas blocks are used on the FBI guns, but they are port restricted gas blocks, as in the ports aren't drilled all the way out. We used them in the USMC for some of the souped up M4s, at both 0.072" restricted for 14.5" guns (a bit too small), and 0.068" restricted for 10.3" guns. The FBI uses 0.067" restricted blocks. I think I have one of them stashed away that I never managed to use - might take a photo of it if I can find it. They do a good job keeping gas port erosion from affecting function of the guns as the barrels burn out. Keeps carrier speeds lower, recoil is a bit softer. They are not sold commercially, or even talked about for that matter. If you want the same function, take a G block and thread it for a BRT Micro Tune 0.067" port insert. I'm out. S/F View Quote Lets get this added to the OP. View Quote Originally Posted By elucidate: Not a clone. Large regional SWAT. Skinny commando barrel. Originally Posted By elucidate: Indeed. When I said 'not a clone' by that I meant it's a picture of a real upper, sat on a desk in a large regional FBI training facility, not something I made at home. View Quote Originally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: Originally Posted By AZgunner: I haven't decided if I'm doing the clone correct green rail, or if I'll do the same setup but in all black. It depends on where I'm at in a few months. If I need to give my current rifle back and use the FBI clone on duty, I need to do it in black, as only all black color schemes are currently authorized. View Quote A black rifle can be completely clone correct, it would just represent a regular agent's rifle, not HRT or Regional SWAT. This thread started as a result of the interest in the green Geissele Mk4 handguards that showed up on Regional SWAT rifles, but all four Geissele colors are in use by the FBI. People are just (understandably) a bit fixated on the green ones because they look great. That's led to what a lot of people are doing, which is combining the features of the HRT and SWAT rifles into a mixed clone (SWAT green handguard and CTR stock, HRT heavy barrel, and Spuhr HRT Aimpoint mount). I think it would be great if @ARogueNinja could update the original post to reflect the four FBI variants that are out there (these details are incomplete and could be a little off): HRT: DDC Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt HRT heavy barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Spuhr mount (not sure about the stock), black or FDE(?) CTR or Colt stock Regional SWAT: OD Green Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount, OD green CTR or Colt stock Vehicle Teams: Grey Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Sig Romeo, FAB Defense PTK AFG, Maxim Defense collapsible stock https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1182/green___grey_M4_carbines_jpg-1584398.JPG Field Agent: Black Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount or Sig Romeo, black CTR or Colt stock I think this is a grey Mk4 issued to hrt4me but is (I believe) representative of the standard agent rifle configuration. I don't recall seeing any photos in this thread of a regular agent's carbine: https://i.imgur.com/A6UVttH.jpg View Quote |
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BRD- Clone Diseased w/ a possible case of NFAIDS, and a serious case of KAC...
WTB: KAC Vero Marked MRE |
Originally Posted By Middlelength: Just to chime in on the Huxwerx. I think they really represent where we'll see every duty type can at in the next 5 or so years. View Quote Dissenting opinion- I think low backpressure/ flow through is a fad that will die. The agencies that you see purchasing them now fall into two categories: 1) No evaluation criteria. They are simply the new hawtness, so we must buy them now. 2) Rigged evaluation criteria. How do you select for a silencer that doesn't do the job as well as the competition? You create subjective eval criteria like a user survey or you come up with a way to prioritize backpressure and award points to skew the outcome. The OSS cans fill a niche that does not make sense in professional/ duty use- either you are high volume and a K-can will deliver reduced backpressure and superior ergos also (due to being shorter), or you have some kind of lower volume or precision requirement and you are going to need the best silencing-silencer. ...and which agencies can back up a requirement for true high-volume with real world data? From their own org or similar. I haven't yet heard one branded HuxWerx, so maybe disregard my entire post, but the OSS cans I demo'd did not make me want to run out and go buy one as an individual. |
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Folks are gonna be sad when they find out HRT isn’t using the green MK4 rails.
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Originally Posted By RuKuS: I am wanting to do a non-sbr FBI inspired build. Parts would be clone correct except for barrel length and muzzle device. What do you think would be more in line with the character of the original: A 13.9" barrel with Surefire warcomp 3 prong or. A 14.5" barrel with extended A2 flash hider? Thanks View Quote So I posed this question a few pages back and this is the end result. I used a 10.5" rail that I duracoated OD green to hide the mid length gas block on the 13.9" P/W barrel. I haven't shot it yet but it is the non-sbr inspired look I was going for. Just in case anyone else wants to go that route. Attached File |
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-Hi, my name is RuKuS, and I'm a ARcoholic.
-Oh, I am sorry, I thought this was a forum where people give their opinions, exchange ideas and give/ask for help. My mistake. |
Originally Posted By HCM3156: There is no “one” configuration for FBI Guns rifles. There are some general guidelines. The pistols are rifles are color coded for administrative and logistical reasons. HRT has tan. SWAT had OD green carbines and battlefield green G17s. Regular issue or POW is black /black. The swat G17s have factory minus connectors and some of the SWAT carbines are have Geissele triggers. It varies. Each office has a Firearms and. SWAT budget so there is latitude and variation office to office and team to team. Individual agents on SWAT also have some latitude for personal optics and accessories. At least in some offices. Older carbines , the ones I’ve seen, were RRA with a quad rail, houge pistol grip 11.5” barrel and various EO techs. These and the 10mm MP5s were replaced with a 11”5” Colt Carbine with a Troy Alpha rail, magpul CTR, Hogue Pistol grip and Aimpoint H2/T2 on a DD Mount. The latest version is an 11.5” Colt Carbine with the 10” G rail, ergo pistol grip, CTR and either a Aimpoint T2/H2 on a DD Mount or a SIG Romeo 4M on the Sig mount depending on what is availible. Of course, like any big organization you may see various mixes of all of the above. Troy sights have been standard on all the FF handguard guns. VTAC slings are basic issue but again that is not 100%. The Inforce Gen 2 long gun light is basic issue but you will see various Surefire etc if approved locally. Tan PEQ15s are standard on SWAT guns. I beleive SWAT and HRT can use flip magnifiers with their RDS. Locally I’ve seen some SWAT guys with an extra 14.5 or 16” Troy alpha railed upper and and ACOG. Makes sense if you are doing something in the TX brush country. Mission drives the gear. View Quote Almost all of HRT’s MK4 railed uppers have black rails on them. |
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Originally Posted By YukonBoy03: If they want a color, they will just paint them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By YukonBoy03: Originally Posted By cms81586: Almost all of HRT’s MK4 railed uppers have black rails on them. If they want a color, they will just paint them. They sure will. Just informing the community what the current stable looks like if anyone is dead set on being “clone correct”. |
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So does Geissele’s factory OD green actually look like OD green? Or is it this bright green with a sheen to it like i see in some pics.
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Originally Posted By 5RWill: So does Geissele’s factory OD green actually look like OD green? Or is it this bright green with a sheen to it like i see in some pics. View Quote Like virtually all Type III HA that isn’t black, it varies, but I’ve yet to see a MK4 in that bright candy apple green. |
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Originally Posted By RuKuS: So I posed this question a few pages back and this is the end result. I used a 10.5" rail that I duracoated OD green to hide the mid length gas block on the 13.9" P/W barrel. I haven't shot it yet but it is the non-sbr inspired look I was going for. Just in case anyone else wants to go that route. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184024/FBI_jpg-2869700.JPG View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RuKuS: Originally Posted By RuKuS: I am wanting to do a non-sbr FBI inspired build. Parts would be clone correct except for barrel length and muzzle device. What do you think would be more in line with the character of the original: A 13.9" barrel with Surefire warcomp 3 prong or. A 14.5" barrel with extended A2 flash hider? Thanks So I posed this question a few pages back and this is the end result. I used a 10.5" rail that I duracoated OD green to hide the mid length gas block on the 13.9" P/W barrel. I haven't shot it yet but it is the non-sbr inspired look I was going for. Just in case anyone else wants to go that route. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184024/FBI_jpg-2869700.JPG That thing would look sexy with a 13" rail |
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The voices in my head say I’m just being paranoid
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By 5RWill: So does Geissele’s factory OD green actually look like OD green? Or is it this bright green with a sheen to it like i see in some pics. View Quote It varies widely from example to example, anodizing does what it wants. Your best bet is to buy 2-3 of them and keep the one that you like most. It sucks having to do that, but it’s really the only way to get a good color other than watching the EE. |
If you aren't representing Jesus in a way that makes people want to hang out with you, you're doing it wrong.
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Originally Posted By Sputnik556: It varies widely from example to example, anodizing does what it wants. Your best bet is to buy 2-3 of them and keep the one that you like most. It sucks having to do that, but it’s really the only way to get a good color other than watching the EE. View Quote Damn so it’s truthfully easier to just grab a black one and have it cerakoted? |
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The voices in my head say I’m just being paranoid
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By 5RWill: Damn so it’s truthfully easier to just grab a black one and have it cerakoted? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 5RWill: Originally Posted By Sputnik556: It varies widely from example to example, anodizing does what it wants. Your best bet is to buy 2-3 of them and keep the one that you like most. It sucks having to do that, but it’s really the only way to get a good color other than watching the EE. Damn so it’s truthfully easier to just grab a black one and have it cerakoted? Easier, sure. But it’s not going to look the same, especially without the markings. |
If you aren't representing Jesus in a way that makes people want to hang out with you, you're doing it wrong.
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Originally Posted By Sputnik556: anodizing does what it wants. View Quote "It's anodizing... YOU CAN'T CONTROL IT!!!" LOL In reality, it does what you tell it to do, and consistent processes yield more consistent results. The reason why Geissele parts vary so much- from black green to jolly rancher green, or FDE to pimp gold- is because they or their subcontractor don't know what they're doing. |
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Well i caved in and put in an order last night. Couldn’t help myself. Hopefully it looks proper.
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Called geissele to see if they could grab me a darker one they said they don’t even see them. And i can’t switch them at this point. Started to go black. Here’s to
Hoping it’s actually OD green. |
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Another piece of the puzzle showed up. Black Fed Mk4 installed. Still need the Troy sights and CTR and then big pieces are done.
Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles: Another piece of the puzzle showed up. Black Fed Mk4 installed. Still need the Troy sights and CTR and then big pieces are done. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/430237/IMG_8302_jpeg-2881338.JPG View Quote Looks good, what sights do you have on it now? |
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Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles: Right now it’s KACs. Whenever I get the Troys, they’ll get moved over to my Mk12. View Quote Cool, that setup came together rather well. Edit: If anyone has a black MK4 Fed in black or green (blemula or no blemula) with the extended pic rail and willing to let it go for a DDC MK4 Fed, I know a guy. |
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Anyone done a 6.5CM Larue PredatAr HRT clone?
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Originally Posted By 5RWill: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/img_7902-jpeg.8182350/ Very happy with how the anodizing turned out View Quote That color of that rail does look really good. There are a few MK16 rails at the local shop in OD and they all differ in color and seem rather bright. Your rail looks like the proper darker shade, as it should be. |
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Originally Posted By Publius: Finally got my stamp and my rig put together. Upper is from Charlie's. I've read horror stories about them, but their communications, speed of delivery, and overall fit/finish was on point. It's got a T2 and a Surefire Closed Tine muzzle device (want to be able to put can on), and a DBAL-A3. Pretty close from what I've seen. Zeroing got a little hairy when I moved opposite direction I was supposed to. Whoops. Last group center and lower left were confirmation groups. Upper left was with the laser. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/img_7751-jpg.8194632/ View Quote Nice |
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So I assume the Maxim is no longer required for the grey rail since some of the vehicle guys have been seen running CTRs and B5? If this is the case I’m swapping that uncomfortable pdw stock in the trash.
Also, if I can verify that at least one guy has used or is using an AAC RANGER 5 with KeyMo at a local office, is that clone correct? |
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Originally Posted By StillGonnaSendIt: So I assume the Maxim is no longer required for the grey rail since some of the vehicle guys have been seen running CTRs and B5? If this is the case I’m swapping that uncomfortable pdw stock in the trash. Also, if I can verify that at least one guy has used or is using an AAC RANGER 5 with KeyMo at a local office, is that clone correct? View Quote Not for the SWAT program, might be on the Fly Team or something. They have run weird stuff in the past. Or he did his own "clone-ish" gun. |
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Originally Posted By YukonBoy03: Not for the SWAT program, might be on the Fly Team or something. They have run weird stuff in the past. Or he did his own "clone-ish" gun. View Quote Apparently he’s “vehicle”. But I’m not gonna verify. I do actually love the the Mk4 in general so I’m gonna declone the grey gun and slap a CTR on it and a Ranger 5 I think. And just keep my green gun as a clone for regional. |
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Free men do not ask for permission.
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....whew... what a read..
Been building my own clone as I read this thread. What a blast! I've had a Geissele 11.5 CHF CL barrel as a stand it, and someone replied to my WTB add with a new first HRT overrun from shark. I believe he said the date is 7/15 on the barrel. I'm hoping it's straight and has the .69 gas port, as the 11.5 Geissele is a .70 and is a real sweet shooter with a H2 buffer. If any of you are more keen on this than I please chime in. This is a clone/ish and a shooter so I'm also hoping the Colt barrel shoots as good/better than the Geissele. The Spuhr mount has been unobtainium for me since I've been watching for them. Hoping to see one pop up on the EE or another run soon. The only thing this thread needs is a few range reports. The real ticket here is that these are very sweet shooting rifles! |
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Originally Posted By -MainDisconnect-: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/366627/IMG_1352_jpeg-2970773.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/366627/IMG_1351_jpeg-2970775.JPG View Quote I for one enjoy the right rifle having a FAB Defense foregrip |
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Here is my current build. RRA lower w/ RRA parts kit ALG QMS trigger Hogue grip Colt H3 buffer Magpul enhanced trigger guard Pending Form 1 (280 days so far for the brace=sbr stamp) Colt cage code upper Colt 11.5 heavy profile barrel Colt BCG Geissele MK4 Federal DDC Geissele ACH Govt HUXWRX Brake (Pending HUXWRX HX-QD 556K FDE can) Geissele SGB Colt carbine gas tube Troy Front/Rear sights Magpul AFG FDE Inforce WML FDE VTAC sling w/ magpul swivels, SB brace (Magpul CTR FDE standing by). Just need the can to clear and a T2 + mount to finish her out. |
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Originally Posted By ARogueNinja: This thread will be dedicated to builds and discussions of the FBI clones and thanks to Geissele for listening to the masses and releasing the much coveted rail. Parts lists will be updated as we go. Please keep it on topic and post pictures of your builds and "in the wild" photos. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/245106/Ch4UQ5T-749037.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/245106/CZvw8IX-749036.jpg https://i.imgur.com/84DFGQh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Y80yQeh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/rG4OntA.jpg Barrel: Colt 11.5" barrels & others since there was already a mix of stuff out there between the different offices, prior to the upgrade starting. Lower: Colt/ some older DOJ contract RRA lowers, among others. Grip: ERGO/ Hogue/ A2 Upper: Most of the uppers appear to be Colt marked. Rail: Troy and Geissele, seems like the main colors for the MK4 rail are Black and OD, unsure of the others. Flash hider: A2 flashhiders/ Surefire/ KAC NT4 Optics: Aimpoint H1/T1s & H2/T2s are approved, along with the Daniel Defense mounts. The Sig Romeo4 red dot was also approved and is being used by some other federal agencies too. Spuhr mounts for Aimpoints for HRT guns. EOTech EXPS 3 & G33 Magnifier Sights: Troy BUIS/ Magpul MBUS Laser: L3 AN/ PEQ 15 Stock: CTRs Sling: VTAC 2 points/ Magpul MS Light: WMLs/ Surefire Scout More info here: Industry Thread Originally Posted By mbpike: Originally Posted By GS5414: Alright homies. I'm going to drop some knowledge, and then ghost. Folks generally got a handle on the right parts. Right now, the FBI has stopped throwing out their T2s/Spuhr mounts because folks are starting to regret replacing them with the ROMEO RDS. Things aren't holding up to abuse and long life. Who knew. You'll see the Aimpoint make a comeback. Also, nobody in this thread has the right gas block. Geissele gas blocks are used on the FBI guns, but they are port restricted gas blocks, as in the ports aren't drilled all the way out. We used them in the USMC for some of the souped up M4s, at both 0.072" restricted for 14.5" guns (a bit too small), and 0.068" restricted for 10.3" guns. The FBI uses 0.067" restricted blocks. I think I have one of them stashed away that I never managed to use - might take a photo of it if I can find it. They do a good job keeping gas port erosion from affecting function of the guns as the barrels burn out. Keeps carrier speeds lower, recoil is a bit softer. They are not sold commercially, or even talked about for that matter. If you want the same function, take a G block and thread it for a BRT Micro Tune 0.067" port insert. I'm out. S/F View Quote Lets get this added to the OP. View Quote Originally Posted By elucidate: Not a clone. Large regional SWAT. Skinny commando barrel. https://i.imgur.com/rG4OntA.jpg Originally Posted By elucidate: Indeed. When I said 'not a clone' by that I meant it's a picture of a real upper, sat on a desk in a large regional FBI training facility, not something I made at home. View Quote Originally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: Originally Posted By AZgunner: I haven't decided if I'm doing the clone correct green rail, or if I'll do the same setup but in all black. It depends on where I'm at in a few months. If I need to give my current rifle back and use the FBI clone on duty, I need to do it in black, as only all black color schemes are currently authorized. View Quote A black rifle can be completely clone correct, it would just represent a regular agent's rifle, not HRT or Regional SWAT. This thread started as a result of the interest in the green Geissele Mk4 handguards that showed up on Regional SWAT rifles, but all four Geissele colors are in use by the FBI. People are just (understandably) a bit fixated on the green ones because they look great. That's led to what a lot of people are doing, which is combining the features of the HRT and SWAT rifles into a mixed clone (SWAT green handguard and CTR stock, HRT heavy barrel, and Spuhr HRT Aimpoint mount). I think it would be great if @ARogueNinja could update the original post to reflect the four FBI variants that are out there (these details are incomplete and could be a little off): HRT: DDC Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt HRT heavy barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Spuhr mount (not sure about the stock), black or FDE(?) CTR or Colt stock Regional SWAT: OD Green Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount, OD green CTR or Colt stock Vehicle Teams: Grey Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Sig Romeo, FAB Defense PTK AFG, Maxim Defense collapsible stock https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1182/green___grey_M4_carbines_jpg-1584398.JPG Field Agent: Black Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount or Sig Romeo, black CTR or Colt stock I think this is a grey Mk4 issued to hrt4me but is (I believe) representative of the standard agent rifle configuration. I don't recall seeing any photos in this thread of a regular agent's carbine: https://i.imgur.com/A6UVttH.jpg View Quote View Quote I know I’m way late to the party, but better late than never, right?! I’m considering doing an HRT build. My question is, the parts list says T2 on Spuhr HRT mount but all of the pics posted show an FDE EXPS3, some with a G33. So are both configurations correct? |
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"We don't live in a third world country, we can oil our fucking rifle." -John Noveske quoting a friend
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Originally Posted By officerX: I know I’m way late to the party, but better late than never, right?! I’m considering doing an HRT build. My question is, the parts list says T2 on Spuhr HRT mount but all of the pics posted show an FDE EXPS3, some with a G33. So are both configurations correct? View Quote HRT does what HRT wants You can also do a T1/T2 in a FAST mount |
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"We don't live in a third world country, we can oil our fucking rifle." -John Noveske quoting a friend
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Originally Posted By YukonBoy03: No idea. I'm pretty sure the heavy profile was for a previous iteration and they use the more common profile now. View Quote I just found one in the EE, so that’s on the way. Any idea if the uppers that were used have a C or cage code on them? Or would it just be a square or keyhole forge mark? |
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"We don't live in a third world country, we can oil our fucking rifle." -John Noveske quoting a friend
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Are there any ITW pics of the DDC rail in use, as is listed for the HRT upper on page 1? All I seem to be seeing is black and ODG.
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"We don't live in a third world country, we can oil our fucking rifle." -John Noveske quoting a friend
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Originally Posted By Zone0ne: Clone correct ? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/96046/IMG_7613_jpg-3035111.JPG View Quote Third pin hole says its clone enough. |
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Free men do not ask for permission.
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Originally Posted By YukonBoy03: HRT does what HRT wants You can also do a T1/T2 in a FAST mount View Quote Recently approved Trijicon MRO HDs will show up at some point im sure as well. For SWAT rifles, there are Aimpoint and Sig optics that are issued. But the MRO HDs are on the list. So who knows. |
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What are the clone correct muzzle devices?
Right now I've got a black MK4 Federal rail, a government charging handle, a Centurion Arms "FBI" barrel, that is 2 oz. heavier than a government profile barrel and 2 oz. lighter than a SOCOM profile barrel, a Colt upper receiver, Troy M4 folding sights and a generic phosphate BCG. I bought the Centurion Arms barrel before they updated their web site and its gas port gages right at 0.070", while the current web site states they now have a 0.0715" gas port. I might use the Centurion Arms gas block I have and a black nitride gas tube. I do have a 2nd design Magpul angled fore grip and an extra Airborne Charging Handle. |
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