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Posted: 3/11/2024 4:25:39 PM EDT
My goal was to be under 6 lbs with optic (PA 5x micro prism w/PA mini reflex red dot).
Without any accessories or optics (But with stock installed) it is 5.7 lbs PA advertises the 5x & 3x micro prisms as weighin 8 oz. No way in hell.... (EDIT:Put the optic setup on the scale & 1 lb!) I may as well just go back to an LPVO smh...After I added the optic setup listed above, the Centurion hand stop & rail covers & VTAC 2 pt sling, the weight shot up to 7.1 lbs!!!! After I added the Surefire SOCOM MINI2 can, we are at 7.9 lbs..... I know I can shave a few more ounces by going with the MFT stock, PSA BCG, lighter FH & a lighter buffer setup. However, I went with this FH because of the SOCOM MINI2 and the buffer setup because it will be suppressed full time. Full parts list below. Ruger stripped lower B5 Type 23 grip Geissele ambi safety Stag LPK V7 takedown pins, grip screw, ejection port cover & rod & end plate & castle nut Centurion 14.5" lightweight hammer forged barrel Magpul enhanced trigger guard Toolcraft BCG Warhammer CH B5 Bravo stock Centurion rail covers & hand stop Odin works extended mag release CMMG Zeroed bolt catch Larue MBT-2S trigger 2A Armament upper receiver 2A builder series buffer tube Midwest micro gas block Centurion gas tube Strike FA Geissele Super 42 H2 buffer & spring Midwest 12.6" Ultralight handguard Surefire closed tine FH/suppressor adapter |
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Get a DSA aluminum bolt carrier, move to a standard buffer and maybe add a lightweight lower.
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I dont think I'd want to go with a lightweight BCG on a defensive gun. Honestly, I'd just run it. If you want to try and build a lightweight gun in the future, have at it. No reason not to, but for your SHTF gun, I'd say reliability is far more important than trying to shave little more weight.
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Quoted: I dont think I'd want to go with a lightweight BCG on a defensive gun. Honestly, I'd just run it. If you want to try and build a lightweight gun in the future, have at it. No reason not to, but for your SHTF gun, I'd say reliability is far more important than trying to shave little more weight. View Quote I'm not after lightest ever, but almost 8 lb is no fun for me. Gotta find ways to shave weight without making it unreliable |
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If weight is a concern I’d always recommend going pencil. The Centurion isn’t on the heavy side by any means, but a true pencil profile would have got you closer to 5 pounds naked.
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The 5x is advertised as 8.5oz, and then you added a reflex sight. I don't know what that adds up to, but should be less than a pound?
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Quoted: But it's going to be run with a can full time & I already had it pinned & welded View Quote Yeah, I would say you chose wisely if using a suppressor on it. Realistically theres only so much you can do to reduce weight before you start making trade offs. What might help is balance. Seems counter productive but sometimes more weight in the ass can actually make a gun feel lighter. A lot of Magpul UBR guys noted this but I had a big honking stainless barrel and quad rail when I tried one back in the day so it was a wash. |
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But 8.5oz is the weight of the 5x with the mount, correct?
What does the reflex sight and mount weigh? |
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Here's how I did it, just listing the major components that impact the weight:
2A Armament Balios Lite upper Faxon 14.5" pencil barrel SLR Sentry-6 gas block 2A Armament 12" rail 2A Armament LW bolt carrier grp 2A Armament T3 Compensator Bushmaster lower ACE ARUL-E Stock Taccom LW buffer Final weight 4lbs 14oz Add a red dot and some miscellaneous stuff pushed it to 5.5 lbs. I could have done a bit better by buying a new lightweight lower, but I had the old Bushmaster lying around. ETA: To keep weight low you really need a red dot. Also don't overlook the weight of the stock, and use a very light buffer with adjustable gas block to compensate. I also opted to ditch the FA. . |
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Quoted: This will be the SHTF rifle. It must be 100% reliable View Quote Then I would highly recommend not trying to build a lightweight rig. That doesn’t mean put an hbar on it but components that are battle tested will not be lightweight. Also it’s fairly common knowledge that PA optic weights are listed sans mount because most people swap out the shitty PA mount immediately. Same as acogs. Good luck with your build |
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Agree would not go super light for shtf. However look for the bcm ELW bFH 154.5 barrel. Take off the ambi safety and get a LW one sided. Get the Magpul port door and slick side upper. That still save some weight
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Quoted: Are the DSA BCG reliable? This will be the SHTF rifle. It must be 100% reliable Quoted: I'm not after lightest ever, but almost 8 lb is no fun for me. Gotta find ways to shave weight without making it unreliable View Quote |
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Quoted: I emailed PA & they gave a typical bs caned reply saaying the weight is without mount lol. Then list that on your site! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The 5x is advertised as 8.5oz, and then you added a reflex sight. I don't know what that adds up to, but should be less than a pound? I emailed PA & they gave a typical bs caned reply saaying the weight is without mount lol. Then list that on your site! Considering the previous model 3x prism was over 18oz without any accessories, the micro prisms are pretty light, and have better optics. |
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Quoted: But 8.5oz is the weight of the 5x with the mount, correct? What does the reflex sight and mount weigh? View Quote No, 8.5 oz is without mount. It's just the optic. They sure are shady on the site with that. Reflex is supposed to be 1.1 oz I did order a ADM mount last night. We'll see what shaves off |
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Quoted: Here's how I did it, just listing the major components that impact the weight: 2A Armament Balios Lite upper Faxon 14.5" pencil barrel SLR Sentry-6 gas block 2A Armament 12" rail 2A Armament LW bolt carrier grp 2A Armament T3 Compensator Bushmaster lower ACE ARUL-E Stock Taccom LW buffer Final weight 4lbs 14oz Add a red dot and some miscellaneous stuff pushed it to 5.5 lbs. I could have done a bit better by buying a new lightweight lower, but I had the old Bushmaster lying around. ETA: To keep weight low you really need a red dot. Also don't overlook the weight of the stock, and use a very light buffer with adjustable gas block to compensate. I also opted to ditch the FA. . View Quote I want magnification so a dot is out. Not messing with adjustable gas block. |
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Quoted: Work out more if necessary. 8# won't kill you. GIs carried M1 Garand throughout WWII. Seriously, not being wise-ass. If SHTF gun, reliability is your goal, not the lightest possible. I would not at all consider an aluminum BCG. Build a 10-12# gun, carry that until 8# feels light. View Quote Really? Thanks for being rude. This is not about my arm strength. Have a good one! Again, I never said lightest possible. I said light(er) |
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Quoted: I dont think I'd want to go with a lightweight BCG on a defensive gun. Honestly, I'd just run it. If you want to try and build a lightweight gun in the future, have at it. No reason not to, but for your SHTF gun, I'd say reliability is far more important than trying to shave little more weight. View Quote As far as Lightweight Bolt Carriers not being reliable…..That’s TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! I’m running Lightweight Carriers in ALL of my AR’s including my Duty Rifle, it currently has over 8,500 rounds through it with ZERO MALFUNCTIONS! Run a J.P. Enterprises LMOS Nitride Carrier, use a Wolff XP Action spring and lube your rifle with Mobile 1 0W-40 oil. I can SLOWLY edge the carrier forward and it will still strip a round off of a full magazine. |
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Quoted: As far as Lightweight Bolt Carriers not being reliable…..That’s TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! I’m running Lightweight Carriers in ALL of my AR’s including my Dury Rifle, it currently has over 8,500 rounds through it with ZERO MALFUNCTIONS! Run a J.P. Enterprises LMOS Nitride Carrier, use a Wolff XP Action spring and lube your rifle with Mobile 1 0W-40 oil. I can SLOWLY edge the carrier forward and it will still strip a round off of a full magazine. View Quote Are you running an adj gas block as well? |
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Quoted: PA advertises the 5x & 3x micro prisms as weighin 8 oz. No way in hell.... (EDIT:Put the optic setup on the scale & 1 lb!) View Quote Attached File 3x with factory mount is spot on. Never had a 5x in my hands to compare. Woof. Scale looks like hell, but to be fair it's on a workbench in the garage. |
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Quoted: I would like as close as I can get to 6 lbs with optic, but without the can. Again, no red dots. View Quote I guess my answer at this point is that no silver bullet exists in your situation. You could spend a shit load of money and start replacing stuff with magnesium and titanium. Lightweight receivers, too. Or you could replace the barrel and optic and probably pretty much be there. |
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Honestly it sounds like a well thought out build.
Everyone seems to essentially want a lightweight SPR.. But they pretty much always get to 8-10lbs with accessories, or you make some serious trade offs. You could easily get to 9lbs with any one or multiple of the following: light, laser, bipod. Edit If it was me, I would probably call that rifle good to go, and have a lighter weight 11.5" with RDS. |
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Go with the PA 3x. You won't need the 1x.
I've got a 10.3" setup running the MINI2; optic is a PA 2x with LT105 mount. With sling & wml I'm all in at 8lbs, 4oz. Wish it were lighter but it's set up the way I want to run it so "it is what it is". ETA: You could take that rail down to a 10.5" and shave a few more ounces. I really like that MI Ultralightweight setup; used it on a few builds. |
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Quoted: Honestly it sounds like a well thought out build. Everyone seems to essentially want a lightweight SPR.. But they pretty much always get to 8-10lbs with accessories, or you make some serious trade offs. You could easily get to 9lbs with any one or multiple of the following: light, laser, bipod. Edit If it was me, I would probably call that rifle good to go, and have a lighter weight 11.5" with RDS. View Quote |
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My lightweight build is just about 5 lb with red dot and light. And it's been 100% reliable so far. Some quick recommendations:
V7 11" Magnesium Hyper-Light M-Lok Handguard - 5.8 oz total Brownells M16 lightweight BCG - 8.2 oz total Right there, that takes 5-6 oz off your current weight. And depending on your preference, lightweight stock and grip can save you another 3-4 oz. |
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On the MI rail, that is with the Ti barrel nut? If not you might switch it out for that. My lightweight SHTF builds end up being model 653 clones, very simple and reliable. But I know what you mean. I built a lightweight 12.5" grendel with mi rail and Ti nut, and all the lightweight components I could find, adj gas, lightweight steel bolt carrier etc, and it was impressively light until I added a mount and LPVO which ended up way too heavy. Now reconsidering the optic and getting a lightweight mount and mrds to bring balance back to it.
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Quoted: the old-school CAR buttstock is pretty light, if you're trying save some ounces. maybe you could run a 13.9" barrel instead of 14.5", P&W to 16". https://i.imgur.com/x03MTN2.jpg View Quote My barrel is already pinned and welded. Not spending more money to undo it and redo it with another barrel. This is the barrel that's staying on there. I have a MFT stock. Might slap it on to see if it still feels balanced. |
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Quoted: My lightweight build is just about 5 lb with red dot and light. And it's been 100% reliable so far. Some quick recommendations: V7 11" Magnesium Hyper-Light M-Lok Handguard - 5.8 oz total Brownells M16 lightweight BCG - 8.2 oz total Right there, that takes 5-6 oz off your current weight. And depending on your preference, lightweight stock and grip can save you another 3-4 oz. View Quote Are there any lighter grips similar to the B5, though? I have this grip on everything as it's the most comfortable other than the Magpul MOE |
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Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/284414/1000004920-3157547.jpg 6lb 7oz with the wml. 6lb 3.5 without. If i out my spare lpvo on it its 7lbs even... View Quote Build details? |
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My preference is for lightweight carbines as well, and my goal is further to maintain a regular BCG and not going to adjustable gas. (It's just something I haven't explored, although, you know, one of these days . . . . ) I think you're just bumping up against the weight/tradeoff issues that I run into all the time. Your setup sounds like it's really solid, and eight pounds with a can, with a non-SBR barrel length, and without a lightweight BCG . . . that sounds to me like about as good as you can get.
Once more, nice stick. |
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https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Lightweight-Parts-List-with-WEIGHTS-AR-15-/118-638524/
OP, even though your barrel is already pinned & welded, you can have it turned down by a machinist on a lathe. If you didn't go stainless, you'll have to refinish it, but that could just be Cerakote. It'll be under the handguard anyway. Or if you have a Dremel, you can flute it. Rather than using a magnified optic, I use a 1x red dot and a QD variable magnifier. I might go to a 1x prism down the road b/c of my astigmatism, but the QD flip mount lets me pull the weight off the rifle when I don't need it, and I can move it from gun to gun. The variable magnifier lets me zoom from 2-5X, makes zeroing the red dot much easier for these old eyes. |
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Quoted: I would avoid an aluminum BCG in a serious use rifle. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Are the DSA BCG reliable? This will be the SHTF rifle. It must be 100% reliable I would avoid an aluminum BCG in a serious use rifle. If I had the money, I would consider it, but cognizant that it's a wear item & has to be run wet. I think JP's run for 10k, then it's done. I think the whole SHTF build thing is overblown. If TEOTWAWKI, and you survive for any length of time, there are going to be plenty of AR parts around long term. Used, but available. As long as your AR is mil-spec parts compatible, you'll be good. |
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Quoted: My preference is for lightweight carbines as well, and my goal is further to maintain a regular BCG and not going to adjustable gas. (It's just something I haven't explored, although, you know, one of these days . . . . ) I think you're just bumping up against the weight/tradeoff issues that I run into all the time. Your setup sounds like it's really solid, and eight pounds with a can, with a non-SBR barrel length, and without a lightweight BCG . . . that sounds to me like about as good as you can get. Once more, nice stick. View Quote Appreciate it. |
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Quoted: Build details? View Quote Im gonna have to try and remember but the lower is a poverty pony I picked up for $69 just for gits and shiggles. Aero sporter upper or whatever the non-FA upper is called. BA 14.7" pencil profile midlength barrel. MI handgaurd that I had lying around. I had a tailhook on there but felt the LOP was off. That would take off a few more oz as well over the magpul. My goal was to use normal parts for this build. ETA I will add that some of my retro shorty guns are lighter than this but also missing a few inches off the barrel. |
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Quoted: As far as Lightweight Bolt Carriers not being reliable…..That’s TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! I’m running Lightweight Carriers in ALL of my AR’s including my Duty Rifle, it currently has over 8,500 rounds through it with ZERO MALFUNCTIONS! Run a J.P. Enterprises LMOS Nitride Carrier, use a Wolff XP Action spring and lube your rifle with Mobile 1 0W-40 oil. I can SLOWLY edge the carrier forward and it will still strip a round off of a full magazine. View Quote I see them fail with boring regularity. When you drop weight from the BCG you’re now narrowing the operational window in which it will remain reliable. This is acceptable with a race gun which will get a steady diet of one or two loads, but a recipient for unpleasantness with a rifle which is expected to perform under all environmental conditions with a variety of ammunition every single time. |
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Quoted: Im gonna have to try and remember but the lower is a poverty pony I picked up for $69 just for gits and shiggles. Aero sporter upper or whatever the non-FA upper is called. BA 14.7" pencil profile midlength barrel. MI handgaurd that I had lying around. I had a tailhook on there but felt the LOP was off. That would take off a few more oz as well over the magpul. My goal was to use normal parts for this build. ETA I will add that some of my retro shorty guns are lighter than this but also missing a few inches off the barrel. View Quote Thanks for replying. It is a nice looking AR. I've got a lighter BCG (Not lightweight, just 3 oz lighter than the Toolcraft) and a ADM mount for the PA optic coming. I may just yank the red dot & piggy back mount too. That V7 handguard is enticing, but that price for just 3 oz less? Not worth it after I already have the MI & did a Duracoat job to the whole rifle. |
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Quoted: Thanks for replying. It is a nice looking AR. I've got a lighter BCG (Not lightweight, just 3 oz lighter than the Toolcraft) and a ADM mount for the PA optic coming. I may just yank the red dot & piggy back mount too. That V7 handguard is enticing, but that price for just 3 oz less? Not worth it after I already have the MI & did a Duracoat job to the whole rifle. View Quote Thanks. It was just a thought exercise wit some parts I had and a Tism moment. I could definitely make it lighter if I tried but for now, it's just a nice little camping or backpack gun. |
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Quoted: Thanks. It was just a thought exercise wit some parts I had and a Tism moment. I could definitely make it lighter if I tried but for now, it's just a nice little camping or backpack gun. View Quote Seems like we have to spend stupid money to get what would be called lightweight these days. |
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