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Posted: 2/13/2004 4:56:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Get your Mom's credit card and buy the CDNN bolt. It's worth it! I got one!
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Posted: 2/13/2004 5:05:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Why? If you are not going to build a presicion rifle with a high dollar barrel just get a Rock River bolt from Pete and use the other 200.00 on some xm193. There is not much the RR bolt wont do for you that the Les Bauer will on a combat gun.
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Posted: 2/13/2004 5:16:36 PM EDT
[#3]
LOL, no one in my family has a credit card.
Please, more suggestions! |
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Posted: 2/13/2004 5:23:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Get a debit card. It works like a credit card.
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Posted: 2/13/2004 6:04:37 PM EDT
[#5]
If you live near the DFW area go to the next Gun show and buy a bolt and carrier from
www.k2-sports.com He usually has the chrome plated ones and Tin plated also. They are a little cheaper at the show than on his website. I picked up a the TIN plated set for 120-130 ,a couple of years ago |
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Posted: 2/13/2004 6:16:51 PM EDT
[#6]
With H&Ks new short stroke piston retrofit kit,eventually that may become standard and the LMT carrier and bolt wont matter..Im holding out for that..what I did do is get and x-power xtractor spring and I use les baer chromed extractors and ejectors.
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Posted: 2/14/2004 12:11:35 AM EDT
[#7]
I would get the Les Baer carrier and an LMT bolt for the ultimate. If not the LMT bolt then a Colt bolt w/HD or Wolff spring.
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Posted: 2/14/2004 5:42:57 AM EDT
[#8]
I think he's building a rifle to shoot Debt Collectors! [ROFL]
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Posted: 2/14/2004 6:08:00 AM EDT
[#9]
I was originally going to go with a CDNN Colt bolt carrier assembly, but they don't accept CODs! Well, for the $99 price tag, you ought to send a money order. Heck, S.A.W. is selling these for $279. I bought one for my RR, and wish I had the money to buy a dozen. |
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Posted: 2/14/2004 7:18:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: I was originally going to go with a CDNN Colt bolt carrier assembly, but they don't accept CODs! Well, for the $99 price tag, you ought to send a money order. Heck, S.A.W. is selling these for $279. I bought one for my RR, and wish I had the money to buy a dozen. Exactly. A postal MO is like $1.00 and the COD fee must be like $6.00 these days. |
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Posted: 2/14/2004 7:46:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: I think he's building a rifle to shoot Debt Collectors! [ROFL] You say that like it's a bad thing.... [:D] |
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Posted: 2/14/2004 4:50:29 PM EDT
[#12]
In my new builds, I'm using the LMT bolt with much success.
For the carrier, I like the JP Stainless Steel "Tactical" carrier. I have compared it side-by-side to the LBC/Young hard-chromed carrier and the JP unit is polished better inside and out. It runs considerably smoother than the LBC. Price is about identical. -z |
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Posted: 2/14/2004 4:55:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I would get the Les Baer carrier and an LMT bolt for the ultimate. If not the LMT bolt then a Colt bolt w/HD or Wolff spring. I agree 100% |
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Posted: 2/15/2004 12:01:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: In my new builds, I'm using the LMT bolt with much success. For the carrier, I like the JP Stainless Steel "Tactical" carrier. I have compared it side-by-side to the LBC/Young hard-chromed carrier and the JP unit is polished better inside and out. It runs considerably smoother than the LBC. Price is about identical. -z That's a bold statement. If the JP unit is as good as you say, better than the LBC, then I am IMPRESSED! Fit and finish on the LBC is fantastic, so the JP must be phenomenal. The LBC is also designed to have increased bearing surface to reduce friction and wear. Now I really want to see one of the JP Steel carriers for myself! |
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Posted: 2/15/2004 2:58:13 PM EDT
[#15]
What do the JP carriers sell for and who has them?
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Posted: 2/15/2004 3:08:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Look in the Equipment Exchange I'm sure you'll find something there. Why spend so much on a Bolt and Carrier if it's not for a precision rifle. As far as reliability goes ,any of the Mil-Spec parts (RRA,Bushmaster and the list goes on and on ) will give you that and cost far less. Good Luck
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Posted: 2/15/2004 5:19:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Brownells has JP bolt carriers I do not remember what they get for them though
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Posted: 2/15/2004 9:17:26 PM EDT
[#18]
You can get the JP carriers straight from JP. John & crew are great guys to do business with - they are all serious competitive shooters. http://www.jprifles.com/
Here is their page about their bolt carriers: http://www.jprifles.com/OperatingSystem.shtml Specifically, I am talking about their "Tactical Operating System" (stainless steel), and NOT their "Low Mass Operating System" - which is competition-only. Here's their picture of it: http://www.jprifles.com/photos/BCK.jpg Tactical Operating System For police tactical duty or any application where absolute reliability is the main criteria, we have our new TOSTM or Tactical Operating System with 416 stainless steel special design carrier that includes forward assist serrations and a dust cover notch. The bore of the JP stainless carriers has a roller burnished finish for frictionless operation with no chance of peeling chrome as in standard mil-spec carriers. The exterior bearing surfaces are hand polished. When properly lubricated, both systems make your rifle feel like it was cycling on ball bearings. Both carriers feature a 100% increase in bearing surface for smoother operation and improved alignment and lower wear in the upper receiver. Both are M15 semi auto configuration in the rear with the mil-spec longer cocking pad in the front for best reliability. This is hands down the best designed and highest quality general purpose carrier on the market. Sold as carrier with installed key or complete bolt/carrier assembly Their price is $169 for the B/C alone. In my experience, the contact surfaces (inner and outer) of the JP b/c are polished better than the LBC b/c. In the gun, the JP runs with less audible friction, you know, that "rrrvvvv" sound as you run the bolt. [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1073_img.jpg[/img] top to bottom: LBC, JP SS, LMT Enhanced. [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1079_img.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1080_img.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1082_img.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1083_img.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1085_img.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1086_img.jpg[/img] Sorry about the dirt, I just quickly wiped the JP b/c down after taking it out of the gun. For more images, look here: http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/ Enjoy. -z |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 5:27:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Whaoh! Great pictures man!
I have an observation/question... Does the LBC make much more contact with the inside of the receiver? It seems that on both sides of the LBC their is almost full contact with the internals of the rifle. The JPtactical seems to have the conventional 4 point contact areas like "normal" bolt carriers. (however, it has increased area of contact over these four points... slick) I can see this reducing friction over the LBC, but will the LBC cause less wear on the receiver? (As the LBC spreads its contact and bearing surfaces over its entire "body") The wear question was in relation to the following: for anyone that can answer this, will the steel bolts or chrome bolts cause increased wear in the rifle? I just have to ask again as its still in the back of my mind. I dont want a really nice rifle to self digest itself. Thanks! |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 7:26:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Get the bolt from CDNN use a money order ,put in the wolf heavy extractor spring and you will have what you need .
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Posted: 2/16/2004 7:48:03 AM EDT
[#21]
It isnt about needs, its about wants...
And I want the best! [:D] |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 8:52:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Hard-chrome is a harder surface than 416 stainless steel, right? If I look very carefully at the four "conventional contact" rails on the LBC carrier, I see very small transverse machine marks on those surfaces. To contrast, the surfaces of the JP b/c are completely smooth. Based on this, I would expect the JP carrier to cause less wear.
If the LBC were as smooth as the JP, I don't think it would make a difference. Let's see if these pictures work: The LBC carrier: [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1087_img.jpg[/img] Close-up: [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/110_1087_img_c.jpg[/img] The JP carrier: [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1091_img.jpg[/img] Close-up [img]http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/110_1091_img_c.jpg[/img] -z |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 10:12:44 AM EDT
[#23]
This thread needs to be saved somewhere.
I am sold dude! JP carrier + LMT bolt. Thats an amazing difference! Thank you for those AWESOME pictures! Any comments on your reliability and wear patterns with both those awesome carriers? Man, your too helpfull! |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 10:19:57 AM EDT
[#24]
Reliability with both has been excellent so far.
Note that the LBC carrier is heavier than the JP carrier, if that matters to you. -z |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 12:19:46 PM EDT
[#25]
The JP looks like it has increased clearances to accept more crap. I would bet it is even more reliable under adverse conditions than a standard bolt carrier.
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Posted: 2/16/2004 4:03:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Zak, awesome pictures, great job!!! I'm marking this thread.
From what I understand, the LBC was designed with increased bearing surface to cause less wear on the receiver due to spreading out the contact. I'm not sure if the increased contact area decreasing the pressure points overcomes the fact that more area is rubbing, but I guess LBC/Young is. While the surfaces on the LBC are machined after chroming, they certainly aren't polished. I wonder if that was on purpose - perhaps the resulting minute lands on the chrome are meant to contact while the machine grooves do not, sort of like a serrated effect, reducing the overall amount of material contacting the reciever yet still spreading out the contact area? Oh and Zak, you got great taste (and money) as I see every one of those carriers have the LMT bolt! While the carrier questions are bandied about, I think the LMT bolt is a hands down no brainer. |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 5:19:08 PM EDT
[#27]
AK_Mike, Knife_Sniper,
The LMT enhanced bolts seem like "cheap" insurance against bolt-related problems. My game is 3Gun and I've seen several people have their rifles "go down" and take them out of the running due to extraction problems. Obviously having a self-defense gun run reliably is even more important. I think JP gets short shrift here on ARFCOM because they are primarily known for their competition guns, and AFAIK, don't market to the military. best regards Zak |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 5:25:20 PM EDT
[#28]
lmt enhanced bcg. thats all ya need to know
meat |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 5:29:38 PM EDT
[#29]
LMT Enhanced:
[img]http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1078_img.jpg[/img] [img]http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1081_img.jpg[/img] [img]http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/2003-ar15-bolts/small/110_1084_img.jpg[/img] The LMT Enhanced B/C is substantially similar to a standard bolt carrier. The gas system was ostensibly changed to increase dwell time in carbine-length gas systems. I just don't see the point of it on a mid-length or rifle-length gas system. -z |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 6:48:24 PM EDT
[#30]
This is ARFCOM.
Im getting both. Eventually. [:D] Thanks for more pics. Those are a great reference to everyone! |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 8:12:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Yup, the LMT bolt arrived today, guess I'll grab the JP pronto then!
Thanks for the heads up. |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 8:14:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Knife_Sniper,
I'm thinking: "Hey, I've got this B/C assy, what rifle should I build around it?" -z |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 8:26:10 PM EDT
[#33]
after reading this thread my next upper will have a JP bolt carrier in it
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Posted: 2/16/2004 8:41:06 PM EDT
[#34]
If you guys order from JP, let him know I turned you on to their stuff.
thanks Zak |
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Posted: 2/16/2004 9:00:17 PM EDT
[#35]
What we need now is a group buy on the JPs.
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Posted: 2/16/2004 11:48:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Who has the best prices on LMT enhanced bolts ???
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Posted: 2/17/2004 7:45:53 AM EDT
[#37]
tagged for future reference. Thanks for the info guys!
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Posted: 2/17/2004 1:48:52 PM EDT
[#38]
I heard from a little bird that a very reputable AR-15.com dealer will be running a special on the Young's National Match(LBC) hard chromed bolt/carrier and an LMT bolt. The price will be impossible to beat versus using the JT/LMT combination. Keep your eyes open in the next few days in the AR-15 EE new parts/or AR-15 accessories section...
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Posted: 2/17/2004 2:20:13 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm sure that will be a great deal on a really good combo. Just to reiterate, JP = polished contact areas & SS, LBC = Heavy as M16 carrier & increased bearing surface (nicely chromed but not polished). For some, the weight of the LBC may give one that edge on reliability. Of course if you are running a short barrel, say 14.5" or less (more like 11.5" or less), then the LMT carrier's delayed gas feature is desireable.
Also, I am not sure if anyone else has them, but MSTN carries spare extractor springs for the LMT bolt. |
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Posted: 2/17/2004 2:42:50 PM EDT
[#40]
The replacement LMT extractor springs were only like $2.00 a pair. Remember that the LMT bolt/carrier design was specific for problems with the M4 (ie. 14.5" barrels) so the LMT carrier would not benefit anyone with a 16" or 20" barreled AR-15...
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