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Posted: 9/30/2004 10:44:39 AM EDT
My RRA Varmint Upper had a black paint-like finish inside the upper. This began peeling off after the first cleaning, exposing more & more of the bare metal. More came off after other cleanings. Anyone else observed this? Considered Normal?
 I'm using M-Pro7, followed by drying, and FP-10 CLP. (this stuff hasn't done anything to my BM Upper) |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 1:40:52 PM EDT
[#1]
People have been reporting this from a company called Ameetec or something similar. There should be no paint on a Rock River Upper, should be anodizing which can not peel.
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Posted: 9/30/2004 3:24:41 PM EDT
[#2]
In other words, did you buy this upper from Rock River, or did you buy it from someone who TOLD YOU it was Rock River? |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 3:29:35 PM EDT
[#3]
My thought's exactly. I have an upper receiver with the Cardinal Forge mark on doing the same thing. This thing IS NOT anodized, it is painted or powder coated. See below: |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 6:43:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Got it from RB Precision.
What forge markings should a RRA upper have? |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 7:11:35 PM EDT
[#5]
I'd like to know this as well. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 7:26:47 PM EDT
[#6]
I have an ameetec upper. Its TEFLON coated over anodized.
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Posted: 9/30/2004 8:12:47 PM EDT
[#7]
The two that I have had did not have any forge markings and they were anodized. I do not know if the present production ones have forge marks. The last one I purchased was a 9mm flattop earlier this year from Legal Transfers. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 8:17:34 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 9/30/2004 8:58:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Isn't this the third thread now? There was the other one with the "finnish".
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Posted: 10/1/2004 2:38:26 AM EDT
[#10]
I've input into two myself. I'll say it again: Whatever process was used to coat the upper in the picture above was NOT anodizing. Anodizing is a surface etching process, where the surface of the aluminum is acid etched and dyed. Anodizing may scratch off or wear off but IT DOES NOT peel off. Paint, powder coat, etc. would peel off like what is pictured above. I believe I got this receiver off of ebay, sold to me as "milspec". Obviously, it is not. 
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Posted: 10/1/2004 6:00:54 AM EDT
[#11]
OK, those pics match my Upper! Crap, need to call RRA, I guess..  (Never had an issue with my Bushmaster...) |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 6:39:05 AM EDT
[#12]
I'd start with RB Precision... that's where it came from...  |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 6:55:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Either they aren't RRA part (doesn't seem like annodizing should do that)
Or there was bad prep work done on a batch of uppers (seeing how there are 3 popping up all the sudden around here) |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 6:58:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Wow, I was bouncing back and forth between an RRA and a Bushmaster for my new no-ban rifle, and after reading these similar threads, I guess it's gonna' be Bushmaster for this new M4 buyer. Sounds like just a small enough reason to tip the scale in the "snake's" favor.. Hmm.
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Posted: 10/1/2004 7:07:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Yes, I'm a bit disappointed in the RRA upper. I have emailed RB Precision. Don't have the time right now to call them. |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 8:46:15 AM EDT
[#16]
Keep us informed of RB's response please
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Posted: 10/1/2004 8:59:31 AM EDT
[#17]
me to. what does the cardinal forge look like? |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 9:02:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Knew I had one somewhere: 
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Posted: 10/1/2004 9:16:08 AM EDT
[#19]
I have one of those. I just got it. I hope mine is anodized. How would the outside only be anodized and not the entire thing? Are Cardinal forgings good?
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Posted: 10/1/2004 1:24:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Cardinal is one of 4 or 5 forges that are used by just about everybody to build AR uppers; so the forge mark is completely irrelevant in IDing the actual producer. You still have to find out who took the forging and built an upper out of it. My guess, and it is just a guess, is that it may be DPMS, given the supplier you bought it from. It might well be an Ameetec, thoough. Who ever made the thing, I'm willing to bet it was NOT Rock River. |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 1:49:30 PM EDT
[#21]
My RRA upper is annodized inside as well, no wear of that nature on it. Here's another vote toward "misrepresented as RRA" for your upper there.
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Posted: 10/1/2004 2:25:32 PM EDT
[#22]
First thing I'd do is email RB Precision. Those people are excellent to deal with. If there is a problem they will take care of you. I have bought 4 RRA flattop uppers from them and not a single one is peeling, chipping or wearing weird. It sounds like you got a defective part or one that is not a RRA piece.
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Posted: 10/1/2004 3:19:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Glad to hear that. Out of curiosity, I wiped my new RRA A4 upper down with Hoppes today just to see what would happen. I have used Hoppes on my Colt AR's and never had a problem. The Hoppes did nothing to the receiver. It's fine. |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 3:49:44 PM EDT
[#24]
I sell 100% Rock River Arms upper receivers and stand by ANY that has been sold, if there is a problem return it to Rock River Arms on their dime, call and get a Return authorization number and UPS account. If there is a problem they and I will replace it 100% Rock River has upper receivers that have been dry film lubricant coated, don't know if this is flaking you are seeing (doubtful) but rest assured it will be handled.
Feel free to call or email with your number for us to call you. Robert, Owner RB Precision 309-534-8175 |
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Posted: 10/2/2004 7:46:11 AM EDT
[#25]
FWIW, I have a RRA upper that was purchased as a complete rifle (lower at same time) directly from one of the dealers here on the board. I have no reason to doubt or even imply that any of the dealers here, RB Precision, Legal Transfers, ADCO, etc, would knowingly sell something claiming it was RRA when in actuality it was not. I have dealt with all and would do so again with 100% confidence.
That being said, in looking at my upper, it has basically the same finish wear inside as posted above and another area where the case deflector meets the ejection port. All areas are a bright silverish color. I checked two friends RRA's, one who purchased his as a complete rifle from RRA direct and another who pieced his together using RRA parts and both have the same type of internal wear to one degree or another. All three of the uppers I checked have what appear to be a "keyhole" marking on the right side of the receiver. Although I am not worried about this, it would be interesting to see RRA's response to the question, so keep us posted. |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 8:26:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Status: No word from RRA yet. I'll give it another week, maybe two?
Maybe my Upper is in the Black Hole of returns? |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 9:06:41 PM EDT
[#27]
This has me worried. I just ordered my car a4 flattop from RBPrecision......
Whats the wait on Bushmasters these days?hinking.gif Its been a little under a month....has this issued been resolved? |
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Posted: 10/21/2004 11:02:08 PM EDT
[#28]
.
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Posted: 10/22/2004 5:31:17 AM EDT
[#29]
This appears to be an issue with the RRA finish quality, and I'm not the only one who has observed it.
But, it seems to be a low occurrence. (RBP purchase itself was a fine experience, good communications. I just ended up with what I consider a defective RRA piece.... Now, if I can only win the lottery!) |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 5:48:16 AM EDT
[#30]
I was looking at one of the new Bushmaster 308s and noticed the same kind of flaking along the edges of the ejection port and the lower edges of the upper receiver.
I asked the salesman about it and he said they all had it. He showed me another and sure enough, it had the same pattern. Looks like some failed coating that some vendor is using who supplies to at least RRA and BM. I'd like to hear an industry insider's explain this new process, and why it's being used. |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 6:02:43 AM EDT
[#31]
I bought a RRA A4 upper from Adco firearms and the finish is coming off on the picatinny rail. It doesn't look like it's flaking/peeling off, but rather looks like scratch marks (same with the RRA charging handle).
I could not find any forging marks on the upper receiver. My lower is an Ameetec lower and its very high quality. The few scratches I've put on it (from a tool that slipped, etc...) just put a "mark" in the receiver but its still black. The finish didn't come off. |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 7:12:01 AM EDT
[#32]
I have contacted Rock River and the upper receiver has been replaced, the coating did not adhere correctly on the receiver, while I did not get into specifics they said a contaminant (read: oil/dirt) can cause this and they feel it is an isolated incident. I would imagine this will ship soon. Robert RB Precision |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 7:42:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Thanks very much Robert.
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Posted: 10/22/2004 7:47:08 AM EDT
[#34]
My RRA upper is flawless. I would never hesitate to buy from them again. Especially with customer service that good.
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Posted: 10/22/2004 8:11:36 AM EDT
[#35]
So the main cause of this is form a contamination? How can that happen to an anodized peice of metal as it doesnt involve conventional painting methods.
The rifles that are being distributed now and in the future will not have this problem anymore i assume? |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 8:12:17 AM EDT
[#36]
I agree. I bought some RRA parts from Krista @ RB Precision and I wouldn't hesitate to go back for more RRA products.
I noticed some more "scratches" on the inside of the RRA upper receiver. It definitely does not appear to be flaking/peeling but rather forced marks from the bolt. Softer Forged Aluminum vs. Hardened Steel. |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 8:21:20 AM EDT
[#37]
All uppers will show wear from the bolt, this is not unusual. |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 8:39:46 AM EDT
[#38]
John, is that you?
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Posted: 10/22/2004 8:43:40 AM EDT
[#39]
I'm curious to know how many rounds before this showed up. I have 47 total rounds thru my new RRA upper and there appears to be a couple "nicks" as well. Very shiny that I wouldn't think is kin to normal wear, but unsure.
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Posted: 10/22/2004 8:47:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Well it seems like there are more and more people who r coming forward with this problem. Question is does this effect the performance of the rifle or is this just quote..."normal"?
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Posted: 10/22/2004 8:53:07 AM EDT
[#41]
I think my "wear" is normal, but I thought I'd just add my input in case it was the same type of problem. I've only put 100rd through it.
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Posted: 10/22/2004 9:23:37 AM EDT
[#42]
This is just hearsay but I've heard stories of guys who have used M-Pro7 to clean their VEPR rifles and have had issues with this product eating away the paint on their VEPR's. I know that the AR is anodized but I wonder if this product could be caustic to anodizing.
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Posted: 10/22/2004 9:33:59 AM EDT
[#43]
I'll probably go back to CLP only, just in case.....
But, on a sidenote, MP7 has never effected my Bushmaster, in dozens upon dozens of cleanings. And I don't exactly scrub the upper with excessive friction. Just using patches and Q-tips. |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 9:52:30 AM EDT
[#44]
I have the same problem on a bushmaster upper. Where the pivot pins go through the upper the finish is peeling off. I know its a bushmaster upper because it came as a complete rifle from bushmaster to me new.
None of my other uppers have this problem. |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 10:15:48 AM EDT
[#45]
What's the forging mark on the peeling Bushy upper? |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 10:40:56 AM EDT
[#46]
My Bushmaster has some wear inside of her, but she ain't flaking likes the pictures on the first page suggest. When metal is moving past metal, well, of course there is going to be wear, but the finish shouldn't be flaking off.
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Posted: 10/22/2004 10:54:17 AM EDT
[#47]
The process is when they are machined from the forging they go to a vapor degrease, this removes oil, dirt and machining coolant. They are then handled with gloves and minor imperfections buffed the entire upper is then media blasted. They are sent to anodize, etched in an acid and hung on a anode ( dipped in a bath and current is applied and in short the coating is burned in the receiver (1/2 in 1/2 on the outer surface). This is a laymans explanation, techno nazis need not blast me for missed steps please  I have seen grease even as small as fingerprints from skin oil, cause poor adhesion and improper depth of coating. There are many other factors including air bubbles, missed area of blasting, weak etch and I am sure a page of other things than can cause problems. The point is this is rare there ARE wear points that you will see and is nothing to be worried about, I looked at this upper and it was apparent this was a problem. I own just about evey manufactures AR and I would not hesitate to buy a Rock, Colt or BushyRobert |
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Posted: 10/22/2004 12:38:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Thanks Robert. Even if there is some flaking, will this in any way hurt performance or the life of the rifle?
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Posted: 10/22/2004 6:02:23 PM EDT
[#49]
FYI, annodizing CAN chip off when the subsurface aluminum is stressed or more commonly, when the metal is not properly prepped before electro-converting. The pictures above look like poorly prepped parts to me.
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Posted: 10/22/2004 9:19:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Its a key hole with 3 dots inside of it. |
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