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Posted: 12/17/2004 4:59:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Midway sells kroil. It is a super penetrant, but I am not sure if it will solve your problem.
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Posted: 12/17/2004 5:06:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Are you hitting them from the right side?
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Posted: 12/17/2004 5:10:50 PM EDT
[#3]
From the small side. |
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Posted: 12/17/2004 5:20:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Try heating the FSB around the pins a little with a propane torch. Shouldn't take much, ten seconds of flame tops. You can also use the burner of a gas stove. Also, you may have "mushroomed" the ends of the pins, making them larger than the hole. You will have to grind them off flush to drive them out.
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Posted: 12/19/2004 4:28:52 PM EDT
[#5]
I had the same problem. Ended up drilling mine out! NOT RECOMMENDED!
Is one side larger? They didn't look it. After a strike or 2 on either side they flattened out and the game was on!!! It was not a pretty sight on the work bench last night. Anyway they are out now... lesson learned that ain't no fun. are they tapered pins? I tried one from one side and the other from the other side. Didn't make any difference on mine. Anybody have a better way let me know. Thanks |
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Posted: 12/19/2004 4:37:39 PM EDT
[#6]
A member here sent me a barrel and FSB with a stuck pin and his story was similiar to yours - he had beat on it for hours and mushroomed the pin heads, tried to Dremel the pins flat (on my advice) and beat on the pins some more, with no result. I had to use a Bridegport mill to get the pin out. I think Kroil is sort of a mute point right now, as is sticking it in the freezer, or anything else for that matter. You may need to seek professional help.
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Posted: 12/19/2004 5:03:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Yes - that is why they are called TAPER pins. Are you using the right punch (one with a dimple in the middle)? You should be hitting the same side as the Selector/Bolt Release to drive them out. The ADCO template helps alot - so does the Brownells Hocky Puck. Oh Yeah - Bushmaster HBARS are a REAL bear. It took lots of hitting with a 4lb hammer, penetrating oil, and the proper punch to move the pins. |
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Posted: 12/19/2004 5:07:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Some of the RRA barrels I have seen have straight pins on the FSB. Colts and Bushmasters are taper pins for sure. |
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Posted: 12/19/2004 5:15:37 PM EDT
[#9]
These did not appear to be tapered, that was what I first looked for. It was a CMMG DPMS barrel.
BTW where can I get some new pins quickly? I want to finish my project. The pins were rounded on both sides so I elected not to use the use the dimple punch first, but after that failed I used a flat punch. There out now, but I wouldn't take that on again if I could avoid it. |
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Posted: 12/19/2004 5:24:47 PM EDT
[#10]
I had tried beating the hell out of mine on an AK and even a torch and it wouldn't move.
Shot it with Kroil and two hours later it popped right out. On an AR double check on the taper pin problem posted above. |
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Posted: 1/9/2005 5:12:13 PM EDT
[#11]
The pins still will not budge. To negate the mushrooming effect, I have Dremeled one flush and have tried to use a 1/8" flat punch but it still will not move.What kind of place is likely to have a mill? Any other ideas? I wish I had kept my RAS2 at this point...
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Posted: 1/9/2005 5:16:47 PM EDT
[#12]
That explains why the fuckhead of a gunsmith banged the hell of the FSB in his attempt to loosen for gas tube removal. Any ideas why he had to put that nasty sctatch under the handguards? 
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Posted: 1/9/2005 5:18:20 PM EDT
[#13]
sovereign
Check you email. Tried to IM, but you don't accept them. |
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Posted: 1/9/2005 5:25:12 PM EDT
[#14]
LMT uses straight pins too (at least mine did) |
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Posted: 1/9/2005 5:59:19 PM EDT
[#15]
You guys need to use a 5lb hammer. I never have problems with taper pins. 1 maybe 2 good wacks and their loose.
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Posted: 1/9/2005 6:06:51 PM EDT
[#16]
I've said it before, if it was your barrel I was hitting and you saw how hard I hit the pins the first couple of times, you'd sh!t yourself.
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Posted: 1/9/2005 7:34:44 PM EDT
[#17]
First, you'll NEVER get them out with WOOD under the barrel. That wood is soaking up all the energy and dissipating it. You need a SOLID (i.e., steel) back support.
I found a great trick. Get a 4mm socket from a socket set, and stick the back side of the pin in the 4mm hole. Now when you whack the other side with the punch, all the energy is focused (by the socket) to the FSB around the pin. The socket needs to be on concrete at least. A steel "anvil" is better (a vice, for example). It's much easier with a helper to hold the upper for you. Use the larger of your hammers. 2 lb minimum. -Troy |
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Posted: 1/9/2005 8:02:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Tag-os Rancheros. This one just got bookmarked. Thanks, Troy.
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Posted: 1/9/2005 8:44:30 PM EDT
[#19]
GRRRRR!!!! Mongo uses wood, as well as every other depiction I have seen. How the hell do you hold the barrel balanced on a 4mm socket while at the same time going for that home run swing with a 2-5lb. hammer?!?! This is a barrel only- no upper is installed yet. I am having enough trouble with the barrel completely isolated so that when I am swing the hammer I don't have to worry about the barrel getting all squirrelly on me. And what about the socket on the other side? Won't that really screw up even more of the finish? Especially with a few slips thrown in? |
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Posted: 1/9/2005 9:18:50 PM EDT
[#20]
I'll tell you what I did. I was friends with the guy at the gun store and went in one day and asked him to do it for me, and he and I went in back and I held the upper in place while he went at it with different punches and other stuff that gunsmiths have access to, finally the pins came out. He didn't charge me, but I wouldn't have cared even if he had. Sometimes it's better to just bite the bullet rather than jack up you sight post even more.
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Posted: 1/9/2005 10:52:56 PM EDT
[#21]
I think you should buy a front sight base from Bushmasters, and have them put it on. I spoke with Tom Barr, a high up mucky-muck over there and he says "that putting on the sight base is a real bitch, and they've rigged up a special jig to put it on."
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Posted: 1/10/2005 1:51:54 AM EDT
[#22]
This is all I've ever used, on a work bench, of course. I start them with the big punch and hammer and finish them with the proper sized punch and regular hammer. The rubber mallet is used to tap off the FSB when the pins are removed.
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Posted: 1/10/2005 2:39:26 AM EDT
[#23]
I have had great luck using a 20 ton press. With proper barrel support the pins pop right out. It usually takes 5 minutes to get both pins out. No scratches, dings or problems.
Mike |
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Posted: 1/10/2005 2:44:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Properly supported and held plumb, the press is a very good way to go. |
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Posted: 1/10/2005 5:43:05 AM EDT
[#25]
I've used wood as well. Just under the FSB but not under were the pins will come out. One thing I do which seems to help is I clamp the FSB to the wood and the bench which keeps it from moving around. By doing it that way, you greatly reduce the "bounce" effect so more energy will go the the inpact point and you are less likely to tear up the surrounding FSB. |
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Posted: 1/10/2005 5:52:04 AM EDT
[#26]
A press is a great idea. Try taking it to an automotive repair shop and see if they can help you. I think a press is your only option. Good luck and thanks for the M4 barrel!! You're right it was an easy install.
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Posted: 1/10/2005 11:01:09 AM EDT
[#27]
OK, I've had it. I placed the barrel across 2 aluminum vise blocks on a concrete floor. My friend put his foot on the FSB which had a block underneath it and then held the barrel down on the blocks with his hands. The punch then bent to a 45 degree angle on the 2nd strike of the hammer. Time for a mill...
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Posted: 1/10/2005 2:13:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Remember, the goal here is to apply an impact that is designed to move the taper pin relative to the FSB, so the FSB must be solidly supported, while at the same time, the pin is free to move. That's why the socket is handy; it wraps around the pin, so that the mouth of the socket touches the FSB, but the pin fits in the hole in the mouth of the socket, leaving the pin free to move. Another advantage is that the socket provides some stand-off room, so that the underside of the barrel isn't scratched up. This is especially important if you've got a handguard cap on the barrel, as you don't have a lot of room to work with otherwise. As I said before, this means you need a second person, whose job it will be to hold the barrel on the socket, while you use the punch and hammer. You want a big fat punch, like Mongo has, to get the pins moving. They don't have to go far before they will drop out easily. It used to take me 10 minutes of pounding to get a FSB off a barrel, but with the method I use now, I can usually remove a pin in 5 whacks or less. It's all about focusing that energy on the pin, while preventing the FSB from moving with the blow of the strike. Oh, and for all of you folks that have access to a press, I hate you.  -Troy |
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Posted: 1/10/2005 2:15:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Finally, the right words to what I have been thinking and trying to say all along. |
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Posted: 1/10/2005 4:46:28 PM EDT
[#30]
WOW! just checked back in here. This thread really took off.
I drilled my pins out with a slightly smaller than size drill bit! THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED!!! BUT I DID GET THE LITTLE BASTARDS OUT IN MY CASE! You can ruin a good barrel this way if your not real careful. Anyway drill press would be best and you don't have room for much error. But I did manage to get mine out with hand drill and ordered new pins. I didn't FUBAR the holes and the new pins fit right in. I'm back in business, but sovereign man I feel for ya! I had this sinking feeling when I started marking up my front sight base and dremeling it. Honestly if I couldn't get them out like everyone else has with not much effort I'd probably drill it out. But if you do..... you best be real careful. Let me guess you took off your RAS and were going with a 58 MOD? 
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Posted: 1/10/2005 6:11:33 PM EDT
[#31]
How the hell did you drill the pins out?! Without a press? I just mailed the barrel off to have the pins milled out. |
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Posted: 1/11/2005 2:24:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Trust me... it was UGLY. I pinned the barrel in a vice dremeled the heads off. the surface was flat so I used a marking punch to make a ref mark in the pin. Then very very carefully worked the drill until I got it going. I was LUCKY! Drill press would have been the best way for me to go, but I was pissed off and don't have a drill press!!! By the time I got done banging on it I would have just about cut the frecking FSB off just to win the argument.
anyway I was lucky went straight thru. pull the remaining parts out cleaned it up. some touch up paint for the FSB, new pins and I'm back in business. Not a recommended solution, but it's done now. |
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Posted: 1/12/2005 8:14:14 AM EDT
[#34]
I would go with the press. I've had much better luck with the press vs. a hammer. Good luck. Mike |
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Posted: 1/12/2005 9:28:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Here's what I did with one that didn't want to come out. I have a Stanley Nail set that has the ends concaved. I used the largest one and put a block of wood under the the sight so it was well supported. The chamber end was clamped to help stop it from moving around. I used a regular nail hammer. The I proceeded to scratch the hell out of the FSB without moving the pin because the nail set kept sliding off the pin every time I'd hit the thing. So I decided to flip the nail set around and gave it a few good wacks. That worked like a charm. The larger flat area didn't slide off pin like the other end. Then I use punch to finish the job. I don't think it will work for you because you already dremeled the end flush.
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Posted: 1/13/2005 3:24:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.........................seems like I've heard this before somewhere.........................just can't remember where. 
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Posted: 1/13/2005 3:34:43 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 1/14/2005 8:48:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Well, I suppose I will learn not to doubt Troy sooner or later. I tried his method on another new Colt barrel, this one being a 20" Gov't profile. I had a friend hold the barrel and I lined up the pins on the 4mm socket which was placed on top of the flat portion of my bench vise. Using the 2lb. hammer and literally 2 whacks on each and they popped free. I think this method should be tacked as the end all for removing FSB pins. There is ZERO bounce and no energy being soaked up by a bench or wood etc. Of course you do need an extra pair of hands, but damn are they worth it. From now on I would not think twice about removing a FSB. It took awhile and a lot of searching to get to this point. A lot of the info out there recommends using brass punches and itty bitty hammers
 WTF! So, hopefully those that are looking forward to (or not) removing a FSB will be able to find this post, and see what I have been through. Save yourself the trouble and use Troy's method.
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Posted: 1/14/2005 12:15:36 PM EDT
[#40]
My $.02.
I've had to do this twice, and had no problems. Here's how.
C_M |
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Posted: 2/6/2005 3:34:16 PM EDT
[#41]
all that being said.....question for you RKI's...
If you have to go to a bigger sized pin to get the FSB back securely on the barrel, would it be better to drill and tap the holes so you could put some screws in there, or would it be better to get oversized pins and just beat 'em back in??? |
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Posted: 2/6/2005 3:57:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Carbine_Man's method works great. I was holding the other end of the barrel and he was wielding the sledge> Popped right out.
He's da man!! Did a good job on installing a FF tube too! Carbine_Man, you missed a great gathering in the woods this weekend.  |
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Posted: 6/17/2005 2:38:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Hmm. I might need some more tools. I have the same problem. I have tried heating it and I just soaked it in fp-10 which isn't going to do anything. Personally, I don't care about the FSB itself which is why I'll dremel it off if I have to.
Which side to hit from? The pins are actually out farther on the side opposite of the selector. I can't tell how tapered they are, even if they are. This is a Colt match target m4. I have some new sights here and I need to get this mofo off. Sounds like I need a small sledge |
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Posted: 6/17/2005 4:01:05 PM EDT
[#44]
I used wood to brace my Colt Hbar barrel, and a standard hammer. It was not easy to remove the taper pins but eventually they did break loose. I found if you really targeted the pins, each blow seamed more effective. BTW does anyone know of a product I can use to return the taper pinheads back to their original Colt Grayish finish?
MB |
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Posted: 6/17/2005 4:25:18 PM EDT
[#45]
The taper pins come out the same way your pivot and takedown pins do--left to right. |
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Posted: 6/17/2005 4:26:01 PM EDT
[#46]
I removed the FSB.
Keep in mind I didn't care about it and I wasn't going to put up with the frustration of screwing around with this for days of frustration. 2 cuts on either side of the block/sight rings, slowing cutting deeper as close to the barrel as possible did it. I made sure I got close but not *too* close as I didn't want to screw up the finish on the barrel. After getting it cut, I put it on a block of wood and gave it 2 good bashes with the 3lb hammer. The FSB broke and torqued right on the weakened areas and came right off. I didn't scuff the finish or do anything I wasn't intending to. I have a new block w/flip sight that doesn't require pins (thank God) and I'm going to install that tomorrow morning along with a few other things before I head off to the range. I know most people don't want to destroy this thing but if you are alone and want to get it done in a hurry the "drill" method and the cut method work if you are *real careful*. I really looked it over and the pins weren't obviously larger on one end, even after looking carefully so it was anybody's guess as to how I was going to get these things off (especially since this is my first build and I hadn't seen it done before). |
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Posted: 6/26/2005 2:39:04 AM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 10/18/2005 11:19:19 PM EDT
[#48]
good info here
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Posted: 10/19/2005 9:45:38 AM EDT
[#49]
Since this thread will eventually vanish, and your link is the FAQ, I've added new photos to that thread.
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Posted: 10/19/2005 11:55:35 AM EDT
[#50]
cool, thanks, I'm trying to keep some of the better ones BTTd until I can find a way to get them into the content server.
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