User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 11:00:46 AM EDT
Reposted with new pics here:
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=238213 Colt's placed the AR-15 into production in late 1959. These had the ArmaLite devleoped brown fiberglass furniture. Apparantly after making a couple hundred of these Colt's began painting the brown furniture green. This is my project, not quite done, but figured I would share pics of where I am at on it:       Early rifles did not have the drain hole in the buttstock screw, also no trap door.  Close up of left handguard, someone painted it black.  Right handguard has a hole in it. You can see the fiberglass strands. These handguards are extremely brittle.  Detail of the original Colt charging handle, cool looking but impractical  Top of bolt/carrier group, note that the cam pin, and carrier key screws are not parked.  Right side of bolt/carrier group, no forward assist cuts.  Left side of bolt/carrier group, note solid firing pin retainer.  Close up of carrier key, 60's carrier keys were staked with one square stake per screw.  Detail of bolt/carrier group, note heavy firing pin, solid retainer, and parked cam pin.  Detail of bolt with P proof mark. Earlist bolts were simple etched with a P for Proof fired. Later chrome bolts were marked MP for Magnetic particle inspected, Proof fired. These early chrome bolts were not shot peened and made of a lower grade steel then later production. No buffer was used with the extractor spring, instead the spring was longer then current springs.  Edgewater recoil spring guide.  Detail of old style flash hider/grenade launcher. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 11:03:55 AM EDT
[#1]
very cool!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 11:18:01 AM EDT
[#2]
Ekie..
Excellent! I love your attention to detail and authenticity! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 11:44:27 AM EDT
[#3]
That is really excellent ! I am currently reading the black rifle, and notice some things that I have read, like the heavier firing pin, solid retaining pin, and chromed carrier and bolt.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 1:07:50 PM EDT
[#4]
"Detail of bolt with P proof mark. Earlist bolts were simple etched with a P for Proof fired. Later chrome bolts were marked MP for Magnetic particle inspected, Proof fired. These early chrome bolts were not shot peened and made of a lower grade steel then later production. No buffer was used with the extractor spring, instead the spring was longer then current springs."
I was wondering about this........I have the same bolt/carrier assy in my 601 clone......had never seen just the "P" on the bolt, and I thought the extractor buffer was missing!!!!!!! I added some pics of mine to the "Oldies" post.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 1:39:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks guys, this has been one of the funner projects I have had, lots of work trying to find the old parts.
I thought all the 60's carrier keys were staked with square stakes. Yours are round. Come to think of it, I had a bolt/carrier group I bought that was supposed to be a take off from a Air Force rifle, and was a hodge podge of parts. The carrier was parked with FA cuts, and was staked like yours. Sold it off, will have to look around for the pictures I saved of it. Also, all the chrome bolts I had it looks like the P or MP is acid etched like the on I posted above. Yours looks different, is that P stamped in? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 1:53:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Stamped......fairly deeply too.....now I'm wondering if this bolt would be the best thing to have in a "shooter" if the metallurgy is suspect.............
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 2:01:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Never heard of a stamped one, don't mean there ain't such a thing though. In regards to the durability of the old parts, I am going to run IMR stick powder in mine, that makes for lower port pressure. It was the ball powder and higher port pressure that required all the updates be made. Can't remember what powder was used, might have been IMR-4073? What ever it was, it is discontinued, going to try IMR-4895 (my favorite). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 2:17:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Wow! Cool build Ekie! Thanks for sharing all the very interesting pictures.. that charging handle blows my mind and the firing pin scares me.
 Is the barrel 1:14 or 1:12 twist ratio? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 7:23:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Trivia Question:
What external(visible) part does Ekie still need for the Mod 601 build?? He and I have discussed this...I am trying to track the part down, one for him and one for me. I have everything I need for this rifle, except for a set of green handguards. They are proving very hard to find! |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 9:02:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Well, I did not take a picture of the top of the carrier.
Yeah, those firing pins are dangerous scary. Barrel is 1:12, still looking for a 1/14.
Do have a repo, but don't have a wrench to install it. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 9:38:31 PM EDT
[#11]
I believe the powder used that generated the lower port pressures was IMR 4475. There were two powders that replaced this one. DuPont's CR8136and Olins WC846, both slower burning, and both yielding lower chamber pressures.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2005 11:32:38 PM EDT
[#12]
There's just something about the oldies...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 2:50:31 AM EDT
[#13]
looks great
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 5:26:02 AM EDT
[#14]
In regards to the trivia question, is the answer the duckbill flash hider? Angled bolt catch? Dimpled selector? Dimpled takedown pins? That looks great Ekie, now I want to build one!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 5:27:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Thanks for the correction on the IMR powder, did not have a chance to look it up yesterday. The other powders you mention are ball powders, and they had increased gas port pressure, and should not be run with a rifle with a Edgewater recoil spring guide. With the increased port pressure cyclic rate (and bolt speed in semiauto) will reach unacceptable levels. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 5:29:17 AM EDT
[#16]
Good eye, I do need all those parts (not much chance I will find them). Not the answer to the trivia question though. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 5:38:31 AM EDT
[#17]
Awesome pics.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 7:19:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Cool pics Ekie!
What's the going price for original brown or green furniture? Just in case I stumble across some sometime, somewhere. Heck, if I found some for a fair price I'd pick it up and offer it up to you guys for that plus shipping. I rather you finished a project than make a buck. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 7:29:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Hard to say what going price is. Have only seen two ads for the old green stuff. Here in one of them, ought to give you an idea: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=119&t=261890 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 7:41:40 AM EDT
[#20]
And the winner is.....mpdphil!!! Unfortunately, you only win my respect as I have no prizes for the trivia question. Dimpled recesses on the take down pins and selector is also correct, but I was not thinking of that when I posed the trivia question. Hopefully, I will be able to locate a few of the very 1st pattern AR-15 flash suppressors(duckbill). I'm not holding my breath, but, if I get more than one for me and one for Ekie I will certainly post an ad for those of us that are making a reproduction of these old rifles. Thanks for answering. I thought a little levity would be a good thing! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 7:49:00 AM EDT
[#21]
Oops, I missed that, he listed a bunch of parts, and did not notice he got it right with the first item. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 7:58:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Very nice.
I've got a coworker that's got an original Upper. Green handguards, duckbill FH, triangle CH. Of course, he refuses to sell it. He wants to find a lower half for it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 7:59:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Yeah, there out there, am sure I will find one, someday......... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 8:40:23 AM EDT
[#24]
Total Silence, Inc. in the Industry Section has repro "Duckbill" flash suppressors...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 8:41:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Got one, still looking for a wrench to install it with. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 8:45:06 AM EDT
[#26]
Ekie,
IM sent |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 8:53:14 AM EDT
[#27]
You're more than welcome to borrow mine. I've go the DPMS variety with the triangel holes for a 3 prong. That'll work on the duckbill,right?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 8:54:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Tom in WA.(Total Silence) is a great guy to get old time AR repro items from! MY Mod 602 repro(which nobody will get to see until I can afford to get a new digital camera!) has a Mod 601 repro charging handle and I can tell you it is an absolutely fantastic reproduction of the original. I have not ordered a copy of the 1st pattern "duckbill" flash suppressor yet because I am trying to run down a couple of original ArmaLite/Colt pattern 1s. Also, my build is going to be a Mod 602, because the roll stamping on my 1974 SPI lower is perfect for the 602 build. It looks identical to Ekie's lower except mine is a few years older production. If you recall, the first iteration by Colt's, the Mod. 0601, had rollmarks of "ArmaLite AR-15" and under that...."Colts Patent Firearms Co." I will be cheating if I use the green furniture, as Colt's used the early black furniture when they started the 602 model. That is also the time frame when they changed from the patttern 1 duckbill 3 prong to the pattern 2 3 prong suppressor, as shown in Ekie's pics. I guess my rifle will actually be a blend of the Mod 01 and the Mod 02. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 9:31:26 AM EDT
[#29]
Photo 167 in TBR shows a picture of a bolt carrier with round carrier key screw stakes, one for each screw, and the photo is dated August 6, 1964. This is a picure of a lightened carrier for use in the CAR-15. It is a chromed carrier, and bolt, along with a solid firing pin retaining pin. It doesnt appear that the cam pin is chromed, but its hard to tell for sure.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 9:53:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Does look like round stakes, good observation. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 10:36:27 AM EDT
[#31]
Thanks for the offer, am wanting to buy my own. I checked DPMS out, and don't see such a wrench. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 10:46:41 AM EDT
[#32]
I'm not 100% positive, but I think the only wrench that has 3 "posts" of correct diameter and position to use for 3 prong flash suppressors are the old GI armorer's tool.
I do not think any of the modern after-market wrenches are set up for using with this old pattern suppressor. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2005 11:50:51 AM EDT
[#33]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/3/2005 1:18:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Thanks for the offers in loaning a wrench. I found one in Tulsa yesterday. I went ahead and added a picture of the muzzle, and a picture of the edgewater recoil spring guide (forgot) to the first post.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/3/2005 1:40:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Is the dimpled takedown pin a pin with a hole in the center of it? If so, I have one I got out of a Sporter parts kit. You're welcome to it, if you need it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/3/2005 2:07:04 PM EDT
[#36]
E-mail in bound. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/3/2005 2:14:32 PM EDT
[#37]
This thing gets cooler and cooler everyday
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/4/2005 8:18:50 AM EDT
[#38]
Yeah, it has come a long way: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=217481 More cool parts comming, will of course take more pics as them come in. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/4/2005 8:25:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Looks good to me, I'm impressed
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 9:27:23 AM EDT
[#40]
What's up with the bayo lug in the last pic? I'm currently building a 601/602 hybrid right now and that lug looks unique.
ETA: looks great! I am jealous and take my hat off to you guys who go through the expense of using original parts. I'm building mine using new old-style parts as the cost would be too much for originals. I use my rifle like Pvt. Snuffy would, ie; I don't treat it with kidgloves. some parts from WA Tom and others bought at gunshows. I think I'll Krylon a spare set of furniture (the originals are $$ and I'd feel guilty abusing the original furniture), and if anyone ever makes the small parts (bolt catch, drilled pins), I'll buy them. We NEED someone to make the early style pivot pin with the ball-detent 2/3 of the way down for use with slabside lowers. More than 2000 rounds so far on mine (it's still getting broke in) and not a single malfunction. And people say the forward assist is as necessary as air! Humph!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 9:40:05 AM EDT
[#41]
P&R,
So you say.....but where are the pics? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 9:52:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Ok, you got me! But I'll apologize now for these being an OLD (6+ months) pics, and it can't hold a candle to Ekie's build, so please don't hate. It's a work in progress. Black A2 lower (ugh) with a Colt Air Force upper. 1:12 C MP C barrel (not correct I know), 3-prong has been replaced with a duckbill, and the CH is now a Delta CH. Lower has been refinished, would rather buy a new slabside than mill this one down. New Chrome carrier and bolt; I staked the key myself and it was my first so it is UGLY, but it holds. The furniture is black, but it has that marbled "fiberglass" look to it, os maybe it's closer than the later jet-black stuff. Early heavy-head firing pin, milled retainer, and I refinished the lower to match the upper. Here she is:  Receiver detail: note the color mismatch:  I'm currently TDY in Maryland and the rifle is in Texas, and if anyoen cares I could get up to date photos in about 3 weeks. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 11:15:54 AM EDT
[#43]
I have not had a chance to take side by side pics of a early FSB and a later one. Need to get that done, only thing I really noticed different about the two is that the older one is much nicer looking.
Cool rifle. I have not shot mine yet, heck it ain't done yet. Once it complete, will be shooting it. You run a standard buffer and ammo in yours? Do you shoot yours with the heavy firing pin? |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 11:25:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Yeah, standard buffer because I don't reload (to make the boutique ammo), and I use Q3131A or XM193 only because the full-power stuff cycles better. I'm a lefty and I fired a box of S&B 55gr. and it cycled fine and was fairly clean, but the brass cases popped me in the face, something the M193 does not do. The M193 ejects between 2 and 3 O'Clock on my rifle. I'm running an M16-profile carrier, like yours, because I feel the added weight helps cycling. As far as the firing pin, yes I use the heavy one, mostly because when I put it in, I put the other firing pin in a little baggie next to some papers and I think my girlfriend swept it all up on one of her cleaning binges.   No problems with the heavy pin though. Lots of people say that you'll get slamfires, but I've dropped the bolt PLENTY of times with it, but like I said, I use M193 "mil-spec" ammo and they usually have hard primers. Is the slamfire thing the only "problem" with them?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 11:32:28 AM EDT
[#45]
HELLO! Now can anyone tell me about this old style flash suppressor/grenade launcher? Are the three-prongs that came on M-16's able to fire rifle grenades? I am fascinated by rifle grenades and it seems like we made all of our rifles capable of firing them yet never used them. What gives?!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 11:34:28 AM EDT
[#46]
Yeah, slam fire was the "only" problem, hehehe, but that is a major problem when it happens. I kept a spare firing pin just for this rifle. Had thought about being brave and using the heavy one, I mean really, the odds of a slam fire are remote. But I don't think I will use the heavy one, for one thing I will probably be shooting Wolf ammo since it has lower port pressure and I could see a high primer sneaking out of that factory. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 11:52:58 AM EDT
[#47]
I am also curious about the grenade launcher. Where did you get it and how much? I kinda want one for the hell of it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 12:03:14 PM EDT
[#48]
I don't know nothing about those things, but it looks cool.
Bought it from a collector at a high price, but they are now available for $4.95 from SARCO. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 1:02:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Ekie, i just have to say again that i LOVE that thing!! i wish i could get some green furnature like that for cheap for my SP1...also, a question: what is the difference between a Model 01, Model 602, Model 02, Model 601, and an SP1?? *excuse my ignorance
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2005 3:03:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Thanks, and I think we covered the topic you are asking about purdy well here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=225187 |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
