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Posted: 6/13/2005 10:42:46 AM EDT
Anyone selling these on the EE yet or is it still a direct buy from POF/DSA?
Thx T 
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Posted: 6/12/2005 2:11:03 AM EDT
[#1]
Good question. I had to pay Frank for my test upper. Only differece is I had mine in 5 days  denny |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 4:27:57 AM EDT
[#2]
Denny,
Any feedback on the upper and will you become a POF dealer anytime soon? T
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Posted: 6/12/2005 4:36:06 AM EDT
[#3]
WHY NOT ????? 
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Posted: 6/12/2005 4:43:07 AM EDT
[#4]
""Good question. I had to pay Frank for my test upper. Only differece is I had mine in 5 days""
well......, Frank did tell me he would send me one of the used ones at a reduced price but never got back to me.., that was around Feb., so now i have signed on with the Leitner-Wise Rifle Co. because i believe their system to be far superior..., so does several foreign countries military and our own military. |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 4:44:04 AM EDT
[#5]
I've seen pictures of the POF upper with M4 style handguards and not that hideous Predator rail thingy. That is the model that has my interest. Looks much more streamlined (and probably lighter too) than the original model.
I'd like to get one someday to complement my L-W upper. It'd be pretty cool, albeit expensive, to have both! ETA---no fluted barrel either! |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 4:49:02 AM EDT
[#6]
i love it !!! i just wish i could shoot it every day !! cleaning is a joy !! no gas in the eyes !! no heat being transfered to action, upper or lower !! and none of the piston parts are exposed to the elements !! i am certain you will love yours too, !! |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 5:00:43 AM EDT
[#7]
I'd also be interested in a POF, but that rail is hideous, and I'd have to remove and replace it, so I'm not going to pay a premium for something I'm taking off. I'd also be happier with nonfluted barrels.
Maybe when they sell them as ..I... want one, then I'll buy one. |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 5:28:59 AM EDT
[#8]
POF really needs to offer their piston uppers without the ugly ass rail, fluting and just add a standard A2. I really hate having shizz hanging from my rifle. I hope they realize that not every AR15 owner has gear whoredom sickness.
Their rail alone is $229, so removing it already gets the upper down to $745. Take away all the other fluff and you have a near $650 piston upper which is an awesome deal, which is far better than what LW is raping their customers with. What I'd like to see in their piston upper and I'd be a customer 14.5" HBAR with standard A2 FH Double heat shielded M4 handguards That's it. Clean and simple. Of course, it's all moot if something in the piston design forces a free float configuration, which then would give LW a clear advantage |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 6:10:53 AM EDT
[#9]
+1 on chucking the the rail. I actually like the standard shorty handguards (not the M4 handguards), but will that work with the piston. I'm really torn between the L-W system and this POF system. I like the way you can take the piston out using the plug on the the POF model, and the bolt is heaver with no gas rings. I would also like to see it in 6.8mm. I guess price and options will dictate which one I buy.
Jeremy |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 7:26:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Buttplate, where in the world did you hear that several foreign countries and our own military consider the LW system "far superior" to the POF? And other than the system being "fully under the handguards" as you already mentioned, I'd be interested in what other ways you consider the LW system "far superior." John |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 6:25:44 AM EDT
[#11]
JUST AN OBSERVATION & AN OPINION !!!
in the new G&A "Book Of The AR-15", page 61 there is a real good photo of these uppers & one note reads, "adds only 3 parts to current system" ........, aaaah !! excuse me but i see more than 3 added parts !! also there is too much of the piston system exposed to the elements (i.e. damage !) it also appears to be a bit too bulky, the FSB appears to be totaly new. the carbine with the tan furniture is attractive & the upper looks great..., BUT !! the piston housing is exposed & that could lead to problems. i will stick with the Leitner-Wise set up, it is fully enclosed under the hand guard & is very sturdy set up in my opinion !!!! |
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Posted: 6/11/2005 12:24:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Hello All,
I've had my POF since March. It's an 11.5" that I have suppressed with a M4-2000 on it. I have over 3500 rds thru it (mostly auto). Zero Malfunctions with XM-193, AE223, or Black Hills 55grn!!!! Accuracy is awsome, 50 yd 5 shot groups under 1/2" using an Eotech!!!! Only problem (if you can call it that) is that a LOT of smoke blew back into your face shooting suppresed. I fixed it by machining a cover that fits in front of the barrel nut. It blocks the gas from blowing straight back to your face thru the holes in the barrel nut. I love this thing. hiredgunr |
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Posted: 6/11/2005 12:41:43 PM EDT
[#14]
did u try a PRI gas buster Charging handle when shooting suppressed ?
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Posted: 6/11/2005 2:32:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Sounds like the gas is blowing back thru the barrel nut holes/hanguard area, not fron inside the receiver. Tex78 |
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Posted: 6/11/2005 3:17:44 PM EDT
[#16]
They also have a standard A2 model advertised in "The Book of the AR-15" that uses a regular FSB.
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Posted: 6/11/2005 4:32:51 PM EDT
[#17]
In case anyone is wondering about the wait on one of these uppers from POF, they told me about 4-5 weeks on the phone. I really didnt want to hear that but these guys sound very professional on the phone and through email. So far, I havent heard anything bad about them either. Im impatiently waiting!!!
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Posted: 6/11/2005 4:43:38 PM EDT
[#18]
The gas was comming back thru the holes in the barrel nut. It was pretty bad, enuff to make most people cough after a burst was fired. The mod I mentioned pretty much cured it. Unsuppressed there is NO gas problem at all.
hiredgunr |
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Posted: 6/11/2005 5:01:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Why would POF send you an upper for testing? |
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Posted: 6/5/2005 10:29:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Denny of GTS had one in as a sample and said he liked it. I believe he was evaluating it before signing on as a dealer.
I did get to look it over briefly and liked what I saw. Based on this brief inspection it may be an easier system to take down than the LW. Just pull the front plug and everything is out. Bolt appears robust. Although the rail is bigger I think it handled well. Kind of reminds me of the FN SCAR from a profile and height standpoint. I thought someone would have them on the EE by now but it sounds like direct is the way to go. Did you guys pay the retail of $975? How long a wait? Thanks T
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Posted: 6/5/2005 10:45:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Hey BUTTPLATE how do you like the L&W system so far,Im getting my upper back next week?
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Posted: 6/5/2005 12:25:52 PM EDT
[#22]
I paid $1125 for my upper. I opted for the midlength rail and a flip up sight. The rail covers the gas block. Looks better to me. With the longer rail and the Troy Industries flip up front sight , it was only $150 more. My new bushmaster lower is waiting on it!
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Posted: 6/4/2005 8:52:41 PM EDT
[#23]
I just ordered mine yesterday from POF. They seem to be very good to deal with. I like the simplistic design of the gas piston . It looks like it will work well. I should have it on in a week or so!
Anyone else have it yet and are using it?? |
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Posted: 6/4/2005 8:56:13 PM EDT
[#24]
I have spoken with the guys at POF about it. Seem on the ball. I am saving up for one.
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Posted: 6/5/2005 4:01:38 AM EDT
[#25]
any one know how they compare to the L-W piston operated upper ??
POF was going to send me one for testing, but never heard back from them, now that i have the L-W piston upper i would still like to test & compare. |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 8:18:57 AM EDT
[#26]
The upper I had a chance to fondle at Denny's was nicely executed. The gas system(gas trap tappet and piston) do not have a spring to contend with and the parts drop out the front for cleaning as required. I also like the fact that the parts run in a protected tube ala FAL.
If the dealers can get them I am sure the price will come down and the aftermarket will provide rails to satisfy individual tastes. Not sure about which is best. LW has a hook since they can modify current inventory and POF is a dedicated purpose built upper. That is really the only difference I can see. Someone should do a head to head on full auto to see who comes out on top Until then it really is subjective.T
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Posted: 6/12/2005 9:36:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Here, some pictures of our new weapon system.
O.C.C. (Offensive Compact Carbine), in 5.56mm. It's the same length and weight of a MP-5. (9 1/4" barrel, 6.5 lbs., and 26" long) Comes with: Gas-Piston operating system, 26" long, 6.5 lbs. 9.25" long, 1:7 twist, heavy fluted chrome lined barrel made from 4150 material. Predator Tactical rail system with magpul rail covers and sling swivel/bi-pod mount Vortec flash hider Alum. Forged upper and lower receivers Fixed stubby buttstock Troy Ind. flip up front and rear battle sites C.R.O.S. (Corrosion Resistant Operating System), the entire operating system is hard chrome plated Rate of fire in full auto is 650 rpm using a standard "H" buffer for full auto rifles. The gas piston system eliminates heat, gas leaks, and carbon in the receiver/bolt. To service the gas piston system is very simple using the 90° gas plug on the front of the gas block. To clean the operating system is very easy since all parts are hard chrome plated. One of the best benefits of our gas piston design is NOT having to remove the rail system for maintance of the gas piston, which may lose zero on your optics when you move the rail. Hope you enjoy the pictures. Best Regards, Frank Patriot Ordnance Factory (POF-USA) www.POF-USA.com [email protected]    |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 9:43:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Thank you for your feedback. Please tell us if your piston system can accept standard M4 handguards, or does it have to be free floated. Do you offer a standard piston upper with an M4 barrel without flutes or the vortex? |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 9:52:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Not to say LW sucks or is the best because I'm sure their product works as advertised, but seriously, there are three or four people on ARFCOM that are just making shizz up about LW. There is one guy here that has been posting since early this year that LW was being used by the marines in Iraq, now recently he says, they've been in Iraq for 6 weeks. Lets not forget all those people that said Colt told LW to make the piston which is flat out untrue You people, while enthusiastic, can only hurt LW by spreading misinformation that will always be discredited making LW look like liars when it reality its something you conjured up in your head. I like the LW concept and I would consider giving them my money, but it isnt like I'm going to rush out and give them my dollars because some fan-boy makes up crap to make the company sound more appealing |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 10:36:02 AM EDT
[#30]
Look on their website POF-USA.com and you will see that they do have a topend coming out that uses the m4 handguards. Im sure it will be slightly cheaper. I think that for the price they are selling these topends for already is a bargain. You are getting top notch components with this kit. Cmon POF!! I want mine bad!!lol |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 11:30:46 AM EDT
[#31]
POF,
That OCC is a trick little rifle. How has it been performing? Can your standard 16in carbine be set up with an extended rail over the gas block? Good point on not having to take off the handguards/rail to clean the piston. Keeps looking better and better to me. T |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 11:38:11 AM EDT
[#32]
Yes, you can get the midlength predator rail which covers the gas block and use the troy flip up front site. That is exactly what I haveon order . Look at the gallery section on their website and there is a picture of one setup this way! Looks badass! |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 11:45:20 AM EDT
[#33]
SRTM4,
Thanks for the feedback on the extended rail upper. I like the look myself and that is probably what I would go with. Might have to give them a call next week to get the ball rolling . T
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Posted: 6/12/2005 12:49:36 PM EDT
[#34]
psssssst !! don't tell anyone my friend, but this is only between you & me...., OK ? research man, research.., go to industry forum, L-W topic, read all the notes there, then click on their web site, then get back to me & we'll take the next step or you can IM me ! |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 1:04:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Wouldn't it be nice if every manufacturer would send you an upper to "Try Out"?  I also think it would be like putting a fox in charge of the hen house letting you do a test/comparison between the POF and L-W. Considering you have such a close relationship with L-W. Tests are supposed to be unbiased.
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Posted: 6/12/2005 2:12:09 PM EDT
[#36]
ABNAK, SRTM4, Variablebinary,
Yes we will have M4 plastic hand guards avalible in about 4-5 weeks. Hope you enjoy the picture. We will be reducing cost of our upper with the plastic hand guards. We also offer barrels with no flutes in front of the gas piston gas block. We also offer a 16" heavy fluted chrome lined barrel that is 1 OZ. more weight then a pencil M4 barrel. This barrel has 3-4 more surface area then the M4 barrel. Best regards, Frank Patriot Ordnance Factory (POF-USA) 
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Posted: 6/12/2005 3:45:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Very nice Frank!
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Posted: 6/12/2005 3:48:47 PM EDT
[#38]
  Ball park figure please on cost 14.5" HBAR, A2 Flash hider, A3-no carry handle, standard FSB, like the carbine on top sorta Send to me in an IM if you dont want to commit to a price on the open forum. I was considering a complete LMT upper, but if I can get a piston upper for near the same cost than... Please please please. My Bday is this month |
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Posted: 6/12/2005 3:50:58 PM EDT
[#39]
POF-USA, very nice!
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Posted: 6/12/2005 4:08:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Just got done absorbing the L-W charge on my CC. Now my wife is gonna kill me......
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Posted: 6/12/2005 5:23:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Yes, good stuff POF-USA!!! I do believe that this will be the future of the ar15! The weapon has everything else. It just needed some help in the reliability department!
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Posted: 6/13/2005 11:20:38 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm curious how much weight is added to the rifle with this system?
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Posted: 6/13/2005 11:29:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Wouldn't it be nice if every manufacturer would send you an upper to "Try Out"? I also think it would be like putting a fox in charge of the hen house letting you do a test/comparison between the POF and L-W. Considering you have such a close relationship with L-W. Tests are supposed to be unbiased.the truth here my friend is that back around Feb. this year i asked Frank if he could give me a reduced price on one & he told me he would get me a used one.., i never heard from him after that.., i have been in contact with L-W for about two years, then when their G/P system became a reality & responded to my WANTS..., who would you rely on, some one who ignores you or responds to you ?? tough question i know but hopefully you will see my logic, i went with the company who took me WANTS seriously...... thank you sir for your understanding this complicated mater
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Posted: 6/13/2005 11:36:43 AM EDT
[#44]
yes Frank...!! very nice, i wish you had taken me seriously !!
now i spent all my money on the L-W unit and all my bragging capital will be spent on them but if you want to, you can still send me one for testing & evaluation !! |
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Posted: 6/13/2005 12:48:36 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 6/13/2005 2:38:08 PM EDT
[#46]
I just called POF. No pricing on the standard upper, but I'm thinking that if you minus rail, vortex, flutes and have a more standard upper the price should be somewhere between $650 and $750. Not bad considering LW charges almost that for a conversion alone and then they make you wait 6 months.
I'll wait and see what POF quotes in the end. If the numbers sound right its something I would buy. Nice write up in Book of the AR15 as well for those that want a real review and technical details |
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Posted: 6/13/2005 3:36:38 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 6/13/2005 3:49:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Variable,
I sure hope your pricing is right, or maybe it'll even be a little cheaper? Anyway, it sounds like we both the the same thing, a non-Predator, without fluting, that can take a standard M16 polymer handguard. I've been asking POF to do something like that on line for several months. I'm glad that there product is mature enough that they can start selling something i want.Also, POF (Frank) will the upper that takes the polymer AR type handguards, allow any brand, eg picking one with different color? Also, If not, what type of cutting would be necessary to get your upper to use standard handguards? (I'd eventually like to have the ability to throw on a YHM, or go back to polymer, as I deem. Thanks for the great product. |
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Posted: 6/13/2005 7:04:12 PM EDT
[#49]
By looking at the photo, it doesnt look like it takes off the shelf handguards. My guess is that the piston works fine with free floats but regular handguards need to be modded to fit. If that's the case than POF is most likely getting handguards cut by someone, which is why there is a 4-5 week wait. Here is another photo with the piston system clearly visible, and not very handguard friendly looking. Even so, I would only need 1 set of handguards but for others I can see it being a point of concern. Still, if the price is right, it will have a huge advantage over LW 
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Posted: 6/13/2005 7:32:51 PM EDT
[#50]
I think Ive found the upper for my pistol build
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