This thing ROCKS! Now I wish all my AR's had this trigger.

is it something you would use for battle or SHTF?

Quoted: is it something you would use for battle or SHTF?

Match triggers are not for battle or SHTF, IMHO.

How you like it when compare to the curve version?

Quoted: Quoted: is it something you would use for battle or SHTF? Match triggers are not for battle or SHTF, IMHO.

Care to 'splain why?

I think it has to do with reliability. And don't some match triggers puncture primers?

The reason you don't use a match trigger in battle is that it is too touchy.    When you are all pumped up  on adrenaline, you don't want your finger on a hair trigger.   Also, some triggers could  trip if you bump the rifle hard enough.   It is simply not safe in such a situation.  If you are in CQC, you wil never notice the difference between a 1 1/2 pund pull and a 5 pound pull.

Seems most people have forgotten that the big rage with these triggers was partially started by the Blackwater guys using them.

I have had one since they were out and I am completely satisfied. The trigger is not extremely light and does not fire from hard bumps. According the a Lyman Digital gauge the pull breaks at 3.75 lbs. I have done some training with it and it does it's job very well.

Edit: I have a single stage curved trigger.

Quoted: Seems most people have forgotten that the big rage with these triggers was partially started by the Blackwater guys using them. I have had one since they were out and I am completely satisfied. The trigger is not extremely light and does not fire from hard bumps. According the a Lyman Digital gauge the pull breaks at 3.75 lbs. I have done some training with it and it does it's job very well. Edit: I have a single stage curved trigger.

do you have a link or something to back this statement? not doubting you but would like to read what they had to say about the trigger, maybe an article or something?





eta: i have the two stage curved in my soon to be recon build and its sweeet!! love it, plan on getting the single stage curved too.

Quoted: Seems most people have forgotten that the big rage with these triggers was partially started by the Blackwater guys using them.

Can't forget something you've never heard before.  Care to supply some links to that tidbit of info.

Quoted: Quoted: Seems most people have forgotten that the big rage with these triggers was partially started by the Blackwater guys using them. Can't forget something you've never heard before.  Care to supply some links to that tidbit of info.

The thread is too old to find and I don't even remember the member that was the one talking about it. In fact I'm still frustrated that the indepth review I wrote of this trigger is lost in the archives somewhere.

This archived thread has a very minor mention of Blackwater, but no review that says anything - members only - Link

This is the thread you are probably thinking of, but once again, limited talk of Blackwater, other than some people are running them - once again, members only - Link

I am in no way doubting the abilities of the CMC trigger, other than to say that standard convention states that the simplest, standard trigger generally holds up best in a real SHTF situation.

Those triggers are really not all that great.  There is a shit load of movement in it when it lets off.  When it lets go, it initially feels  pretty clean, but after awhile, you will realize that the trigger is actually traveling about 3/16" to the rear when it lets go.  It feels like it has a lot of overtravel, but it is actually sliding across the sear surface for quite aways before it actually drops the hammer.  If you are not a serious target/bench shooter you will probably not even notice how bad it really is.

Quoted: Those triggers are really not all that great.  There is a shit load of movement in it when it lets off.  When it lets go, it initially feels  pretty clean, but after awhile, you will realize that the trigger is actually traveling about 3/16" to the rear when it lets go.  It feels like it has a lot of overtravel, but it is actually sliding across the sear surface for quite aways before it actually drops the hammer.  If you are not a serious target/bench shooter you will probably not even notice how bad it really is.

Tony, IMHO these triggers were never meant to be used as benchrest triggers. They really shine in 3 gun, action rifle type of shooting. I can shoot my CMC single stage flat trigger equiped AR fastest out of all my AR's. But I much prefer my 2 stage equiped AR's for benchrest/target work.

-sc

Well the trigger I got is a Single Stage, and it IS a bit on the touchy side. As far as overtravel Tony, neither one of the 2 Single Stage CM triggers I have has much if any. The break is crisp and solid, in fact that's what is most noticeable about the straight trigger: It has a really nice SOLID feel to it, even more so than the standard curved trigger I bought first. I like it 110% more than the RRA 2-stage trigger I bought earlier this year. That trigger was a waste of money. To be honest, it felt like a Sloppy stock trigger.

Donovan,

because the trigger pull is on the lighter side, this setup may not be ideal for tactical use, BUT it is not out of the question as long as one was real anal about trigger discipline.  The straight trigger does "feel" faster because of it's lack of play and short throw though.

M4Gunner,

I like it alot more than the curved. The reach to the trigger is ever so slightly longer than the curved so it feels real comfortable to shoot.

I agree with you on the speed of the straight trigger salaciouscrumb,

For some reason it seems to shoot slightly faster than the curved Single Stage, and a LOT faster than the stock trigger.

Thanks for the replies.

I put a straight one-stage CMC trigger in a RRA midlength and there's nothing to it. Even used the CMC pins over the KNS that I have. At first I thought is was perfect, crisp, no creep, no overtravel... After dry firing a few times and around 50 rounds it developed quite alot of creep. Can't tell when it will break. Talked to CMC and they and they are more than helpful, very nice to do business with them. They said send to them and it will be made right. I pass through Spicewood, Tx. where they are located so I'm going to drop it off next time through there.

If you want am excellent all around trigger, get a RRA two stage and send it to White Oak Precision for its service rifle NM tune up.  You will get an awesomely crisp trigger that still breaks at an overall pull weight of over 4 1/2 lbs (to be NM service rifle legal) but has the pull split over both stages.  No adjustment screws to back out, not oddball angles in the disconnector and sear.  Just well done gunsmithing.

Mine is there now and I can't wait to get it back.  I was amazed at how good it is when I dry-fired someone else's gun with it.

I agree with SWO_daddy. I have 3 White Oak tuned RR triggers and love them. I was going to try a McCormick trigger on my new RECCE but I have had such good luck with the RR I will get another one of them.

Mike

Quoted: If you want am excellent all around trigger, get a RRA two stage and send it to White Oak Precision for its service rifle NM tune up.  You will get an awesomely crisp trigger that still breaks at an overall pull weight of over 4 1/2 lbs (to be NM service rifle legal) but has the pull split over both stages.  No adjustment screws to back out, not oddball angles in the disconnector and sear.  Just well done gunsmithing. Mine is there now and I can't wait to get it back.  I was amazed at how good it is when I dry-fired someone else's gun with it.

does white oak 100% whipe out the issue, that rra's will turn into 1-stage?

Quoted: This thing ROCKS! Now I wish all my AR's had this trigger.

there awesome, congrats..

Quoted: does white oak 100% whipe out the issue, that rra's will turn into 1-stage?

No trigger is 100%, all can fail, period.

Well, sending a new trigger out to "fix" before even installing it doesn't make much sense to me. I meant no disrespect to any RRA 2 stage trigger owners out there, but it has been my experience with a stock RRA 2 stage that, in my humble opinion the trigger setup just isn't worth the money or effort.  When all is said and done, the RRA trigger isn't much of an improvement over a stock Bushmaster trigger. It does have a little less creep, but it lacks the "crispness" of a custom trigger. I have no doubt that White Oak Precision does a wonderful job with the RRA trigger, but I would venture as far to say that I bet they would do just as awesome a job with a STOCK trigger as well, all without having to spend the $85.00 or so for an RRA 2 stage.

I like the Chip McCormick stuff. They could be priced a little lower that's for sure, but you do get a really good trigger set up when you get one. The fact that the CM set up is a 1 piece "drop-in" part isn't that big of a deal really, seeing as a regular trigger set up isn't really all that difficult to assemble at all, but the drop in feature of the CM trigger sure is nice. The only negative thing I can say about them is that they use oversized pins, and not stock replacement pins. Installing a CM trigger means that you have to use these over-sized pins boring out the holes on your reciever for the hammer & trigger, something I hate to do to new recievers. I replaced the pins that come with the CM trigger that uses E-clips with K&S pins (with "barbell spacers) just for peace of mind. Other than that, the CM setup is fine.

Well, sending a new trigger out to "fix" before even installing it doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd call the WOA changes to the RRA more of a "tuning" than a "fix".  My only experience with the RRA 2-stage is the stock one my dad put in his BM.  It has a very light first stage (1-1.5lb) and then a heavy second stage (~4lbs, for 5.5lbs total).  Since that 4lb second stage is about half of what the stock BM trigger was he's happy with it, but to me that totally defeats the purpose of it being a 2-stage.  I've decided that if I get an aftermarket trigger for my newest lower it's going to come from WOA so that the stages are balanced correctly, rather than risk getting one like Dad's.

... I would venture as far to say that I bet they would do just as awesome a job with a STOCK trigger as well, all without having to spend the $85.00 or so for an RRA 2 stage.

I'm sure he could do a fine job on the stock trigger, but he couldn't make it a 2-stage.  A 2-stage has extra parts and springs to give it the second stage.  My local 'smith did a nice trigger job on one of mine for $65 using the stock parts.  Knowing what I know now, all he did was the "15-minute trigger job" which I'm going to attempt on this new lower for free.  If that doesn't work well enough for me I'll go with the WOA-tuned RRA 2-stage.

The fact that the CM set up is a 1 piece "drop-in" part isn't that big of a deal really, seeing as a regular trigger set up isn't really all that difficult to assemble at all,...

Assembly isn't the issue.  Adjusting is.  Not every AR user is capable of doing the adjustments to the safety and disconnector that might be needed.  Having all of that geometry locked in at the factory is a good thing, and lets them go a little closer to the edge on the trigger feel as well.

I'd say the best thing about the straight CM trigger is that it gives a longer trigger reach (the stock reach is too short IMHO) without the side effects of longer reach to the mag release and safety that changing the grip has.  

Well, sending a new trigger out to "fix" before even installing it doesn't make much sense to me.

It's just a tune as mentioned, almost any trigger, including match triggers can benefit from expert tuning.  My own RRA Match is not tuned or modified and gives me about 3.2 lbs on the second stage from being worn in.  After thousands of rounds, it's still functioning perfectly.  While there may be some people that have experienced failures (going 1 stage can be 'fixed'), they are an extremely small minority compared to how many people are using these triggers - you only hear about the failures, not the thousands that haven't.  Mine is night and day difference better than the stock BM trigger it replaced, though I could have tuned up the stock trigger for good feel but of course it would still be single stage.  RRA can easily be adjusted for a lighter 2nd stage pull, it doesn't take much effort if you understand what you are doing and don't go overboard.  If your RRA is on the heavy side then I can understand the disappointment when comparing it to a stock trigger, and even stock triggers vary in performance.

By the way Atreides, you got more than piece of mind by using the KNS non-rotating pin set.  I have found that they can tighten up the action and improve an already great trigger by removing much of the play that comes from enlarged/misplaced FCG receiver holes.

I'm getting a CMC trigger myself, just to try something new but the only triggers that have disappointed me so far (and I've had almost all of them) is my stock triggers or the match BM/Armalite triggers I've had and even those could be made into nice triggers with a little work.

I had to adjust my single stage AS trigger but it usually has to be fit to the rifle it's installed in for the best operation like any other trigger as receivers vary in manufacturing.

The CMC look pretty good but at this time the only "Match" trigger I'd trust for SHTF would the Accuracy Speaks single stage model.

Thanks for the the definition of "tuning" a trigger. I used the wrong word "Fix" for what I was trying to say.  

After getting a 2 stage trigger I have come to the conclusion that trigger "stage" choice is totally a personal preference thing. I can see how the 2 stage is good for a target rifle.  That's why I like the single stage triggers. I do alot more plinking than precision shooting, in fact, I don't do ANY target shooting at all. :)

Getting back to the White Oak option, what I was trying to say is I am sure they can improve all types of triggers, not just the 2-stage so if all you were looking for is an improvement over stock I'm sure they can do it. I didn't say they could make a 2 stage out of a stock trigger. Sorry for the mix-up. :)

Anyway, when I first heard about 2 stage triggers I admit it got my interest. Looking back now I can say that the reason why it did was simply because it was different than stock...and being a Newbie to AR's I assumed Different = Better. I thought to myself: "If the 2 stage is the same price as the single stage, why should I spend my money to get the 'same' thing as stock?" Little did I know that an aftermarket single stage isn't the 'same' as a stock trigger at all. I bought the 2 stage trigger first: and didn't want to admit it but I didn't like it...I actually preferred the stock Single stage. That's when I got my 1st CM Single Stage trigger, (curved) and realized how much I liked the single stage setup above a 2 stage and still do. Like I said, it's a preference thing.

Thanks for the info and opinions guys!

I'm a freak, I like BOTH the single and dual stage triggers.  I like the single stage for close rapid fire and the 2-stage for precision shooting though the 2-stage doesn't slow me down much in rapid fire.

I also try to experience all the triggers and try them in various rifles for fit.  If your rifle has misaligned or loose holes, none of the triggers will reach their full capability, feel, and function.  One fellow I know, once he got KNS non-rotating pins, was amazed at his expensive 2-stage trigger, it got that much better.

Quoted: The CMC look pretty good but at this time the only "Match" trigger I'd trust for SHTF would the Accuracy Speaks single stage model.

What makes you distrust the KAC?

Quoted: I can see how the 2 stage is good for a target rifle.

I can see how a two stage trigger is good for a combat rifle.  Plenty of them have had them over the years, including the k98, SMLE, M1903, M1917, M1, and M14.

Quoted: Quoted: The CMC look pretty good but at this time the only "Match" trigger I'd trust for SHTF would the Accuracy Speaks single stage model. What makes you distrust the KAC?

I'm just going by my personal experience, I've never used a KAC so I can't really comment on it. Personally I prefer single stage triggers so I never even considered the KAC.

EDT: Not to mention that I could get two sets of Accuracy Speaks triggers for the price of the KAC.

The conventional wisdom is that any trigger with adjustment screws is a bad choice for a combat weapon because the screws will come loose and make it stop working.  Hence the "Accuracy Speaks but not JP" argument.   On the other hand, the Army apparently trusts the KAC 2-stage enough to put it in the SPR despite the adjustments it has.  And I believe I've heard more reports here of the non-adustable RRA failing than the KAC.  

The other conventional wisdom is that the single-stage is better than the 2-stage for combat-type shooting because it's quicker to reset, and the 2-stage is better for precision-type shooting because it fools your finger into thinking it's much lighter than it is.  I believe the M-16 is the first military rifle in the US to not have a 2-stage trigger.  I suspect that's part of the shift from the "soliders are long-range marksmen" to "soldiers take short-range, barely aimed shots" philosophy that also led to the shift to 5.56mm with the M16.