*UPDATE TOTALSILENCEINC.COM IS DOWN. PLEASE SEE REDIRECTED SITE*

Total Silence Inc has all of the parts you need. Hope this info helps.

Sammy

Quoted: I'm trying to piece together an original CAR 15.  I'm looking for parts.  Anyone out there have any suggestions?

Are you looking to:
- Build an NFA or NON-NFA firearm?
- Build an XM177/XM177E1 or XM177E2/GAU-5/A/A?
- Build an accurate replica or just a look-a-like?

Please e-mail me with your answers and I will try and help you build this firearm.

Thanx.
Sammy

Quoted: Thats kewl and all, but I was thiking more along an XM177 type carbine.  I can get the upper and the lower, but I need the barrel.  Am I going to have to have a barrel custom made or is there a place that has them?

*UPDATE TOTALSILENCEINC.COM IS DOWN. PLEASE SEE REDIRECTED SITE*

Like Lancelot said, if you are looking to build NFA, you would need to file a Form I unless you buy one that has already been manufactured in which case you would need a Form III or IV (depending on the circumstance). However, if you are looking to build NON-NFA, you would need to ask yourself according to what specifications are you wanting to build.

The Colt XM177E1 was an M16A1 upper receiver with a 10.5" M16A1 profile barrel and a 3.4 or 4.3" moderator (depending when it was manufactured). Both the moderator and barrel can be built through Total Silence Inc. The problem with Phobia's suggestion is the Bushmaster XM177 moderators are not made to spec and they utilize heavy profile barrels. Please let me know if I can answer any other questions.

Sammy

Madwolf,

That is the exact same thing as the Bushmaster XM177 from a different manufacturer. The moderators are not made to XM177 spec and they do not use the correct profile barrel.

Sammy

Quoted: Take a look at this group buy that just ended on another site for  xm177forgery kit XM177 Clone kit I'm not sure if it is an exact clone but if this is close to what you are intending to build maybe you can contact DPMS directly for the complete kit or just the barrel and/or other parts that you need.  Here is a link to DPMS DPMS direct link Hope this helps.......Good Luck Chris aka madwolf

That would be physically impossible with the handguards on the XM177 series. The barrel must be at least 10.5" long in order for it to be properly threaded in front of the front site base. The XM177 or GAU-5/A (Colt 610) had a 10.5" barrel and did NOT have a forward-assist. The XM177E1 (Colt 609) had a 10.5" barrel and a forward-assist. The XM177E2 or GAU-5/A/B (Colt 629) had an 11.5" barrel and a forward-assist. The GAU-5/A/A (Colt 630) had an 11.5" barrel and did NOT have a forward assist.

If you read The Black Rifle then you will see most of this information. You also might want to note the small mistakes in The Black Rifle including the GAU-5/A being called the Colt 649 when in fact the GAU-5/A is the Colt 610 and the GAU-5/A/A is the Colt 630. If you have any other questions or arguments that you would like to challenge me with, please ask them off the open-forum. Thank you.

Sammy

One observation from measuring a CAR barrel: If you cut the barrel at 10" it would not leave any room for threading. Well it would, but only about .200 of an inch which isn't really sufficient to safely  hold on anything when you take into account the .100" lock  washer thickness. I have never really seen a true 10" barrel that did have the front sight base attached.

we need to first define barrel length before we commence to dick waving

are we talking the distance from

the rear of the extension to the muzzle?

the bolt face to the muzzle?

or

the rear of the barrel to the muzzle?

the dims:

a barrel extension is 1.121" from front (flange) to rear (ramps)

bolt face depth is 0.100" from front of lugs to face of bolt

a carbine barrel blank has a 0.620" shank, followed by a 6.750" run, followed by a 1.890" {or 1.925"} FSB seat with a .63" {or 0.600"} muzzle shank. the alt {X.XX"} dims are from a different print.

so, a minimum length barrel blank using the carbine gas system would be 9.89" from rear of chamber to muzzle or 10.391" from rear of extension to muzzle, or 9.99" (maybe a little more given slop between the bolt and extension lugs) from the bolt face to the muzzle. the 1.89" (+/- 0.020") FSB seat is plenty roomy for a 1.78" wide FSB and the handguard cap.

all the 10" barrels I've worked with have threads that start nearly at the front of the FSB.

barrel lengths don't lend themselves to nice round numbers, even a 20" barrel (the standard) isn't 20".

FWIW, one print I have (commercial, not USGI) calls the OAL (rear of barrel to muzzle) of the "10 inch" barrel at 10.25" using the alternate FSB seat and muzzle shank dim so there is some extra material (0.355") between the front of the FSB seat and the muzzle shank on their design.

just like the old days, nothing like some facts to end all the poo flinging.

That is correct.

Sammy

Quoted: SO all I need to do to a barrel is to make sure that the 4 and a half inch moderator is welded to the barrel and to make sure that the barel length is total 16 inches?

As long as the permanent overall length exceeds 16", the barrel can be as short as you want without being classified as a short-barreled rifle. If you want a 4.5" moderator with a 12.5" (.5" is covered by threads) barrel, that can be done.

Sammy

*deleted*

Quoted: Bead-blasting most certainly adds mass.

removing material with high pressure aerosol grit adds mass?

*deleted*

*deleted*

Quoted: Man, I feel like I'm in my local gunshop and hearing the guy tell me to file my magwell so my mags will drop free..

that's quite common when returning the lower is not an option, unless you want to find the correct broach and then re anodize the lower. that only after every other option (trigger guard, upper fit, burrs) is eliminated.

Originally Posted selfishselfless: scratch that, I meant surface area.

"surface area" huh? yeah, maybe microscopically due to the minute irregularities produced by the bead blasting.

in general the glass beads that don't get turned into progressively finer dust (and filtered out by the dust collector) end up in the bottom of the bead blast cabinet where the intake hose for the sprayer picks them up again.

still waiting on the answers to my previous post about barrel length, or did you think I haven't noticed?

good idea

what happens in three months?


following a pattern with a long history on this site, I have received an email response from one of the posters in this thread. In it he still does not answer the question or present any facts, just accuses me of "poo flinging".

maybe the surface area added by the bead blasting is length.

the posters come and go but this board never changes.

to quote the mighty CavVet, put up or shut up

hehe, I see he came back and deleted all his posts. I never get to have any fun around here anymore.

Maybe he couldn't get those numbers to add up to 10.5"

I have been accused by Mr Young (Tweak) of trolling and which I do not believe I have been, I would like to retract my statement regarding the surface area and barrel length to prevent further controversy. My data regarding the minimum 10.5" barrel length was based off the knowledge one could not manufacture an even 10" barrel with 1/2x28" threads using the standard length carbine handguards. However, Mr Young stated in his copy of a commercial manual, the barrel length was listed at 10.25" which of course is different than what either of us said.

Sammy

reading is just not your strong suit is it?

first off it's not a manual, it's a print. I was wondering what in hell you were talking about when you said you couldn't find a Colt manual to refute the number I gave. I will assume from your repeated use of the term "manual" that you are not familiar with prints.

secondly, the barrel dimensions I listed are accepted dimensions for ALL barrels as standard parts have to fit those dimensions. The sum of those dimensions are listed three separate ways depending on how one wants to define barrel length. None of those sums approach 10.5", I showed that a 10" barrel is possible contrary to your assertion and that of others. AAMOF ~10" is the absolute shortest a barrel can be made and retain a carbine length gas system. You can cut the barrel at any point you want from the FSB seat forward as long as you leave the .6" for the muzzle threads but you can't cut the barrel SHORTER as the FSB seat, chamber shank, muzzle shank, and gas tube run are pre determined by their corresponding parts.

Here's the numbers again in case you missed them the first time

Originally Posted By "Rodger Young" a carbine barrel blank has a 0.620" shank, followed by a 6.750" run, followed by a 1.890" {or 1.925"} FSB seat with a .63" {or 0.600"} muzzle shank. the alt {X.XX"} dims are from a different print. so, a minimum length barrel blank using the carbine gas system would be 9.89" from rear of chamber to muzzle or 10.391" from rear of extension to muzzle, or 9.99" (maybe a little more given slop between the bolt and extension lugs) from the bolt face to the muzzle. the 1.89" (+/- 0.020") FSB seat is plenty roomy for a 1.78" wide FSB and the handguard cap.

You can see (I hope) that when the longer, non military numbers are used the OAL comes up closer to 10.25", the dimension listed on the print.

thirdly, I never said you were a troll, I said you were following established troll procedures by going to email about a public thread in which you have repeatedly stepped on your dick. I was even gracious enough to point out that you are new here and probably don' t know the protocols. Perhaps I should also post my response to your email since it appears you have trouble not only with reading but also with remembering.

finally, I wasn't the one arguing over tenths of inch, that was you and sham. I found the entire argument quite amusing considering that everyone here routinely calls barrels by the incorrect true lengths and yet when someone's little piece of knowledge is threatened they behave like fractions of inch are important.

As I have shown above (twice) your "knowledge" is wrong. I don't know, nor do I care what length barrel was used on the XM whatever the hell it was, that's pointless trivia in my book, but saying that a 10" barrel can't be made is patently false. I'm sure it's "controversy" you're hoping to prevent instead of further embarassment. Your entire thesis was that a 10" barrel couldn't have been used on the SMG as a 10" barrel is impossible to manufacture. I have proven that a 10" barrel is entirely possible to manufacture hence one could have been used on the dork gun.

That's three (bead blasting adds mass, bead blasting adds surface area, impossible to manufacture 10" barrels) un credible postulations in one thread; you're working on an ARF record.

since you're in the habit of deleting your unfounded and erroneous posts (those which aren't ads) I'll have to start saving them for posterity. I encourage others to do likewise, once again, this is long established troll behaviour.

Quoted: I have been accused by Mr Young (Tweak) of trolling and which I do not believe I have been, I would like to retract my statement regarding the surface area and barrel length to prevent further controversy. My data regarding the minimum 10.5" barrel length was based off the knowledge one could not manufacture an even 10" barrel with 1/2x28" threads using the standard length carbine handguards. However, Mr Young stated in his copy of a commercial manual, the barrel length was listed at 10.25" which of course is different than what either of us said. Sammy

Actually your e-mail to me stated that I needed to either defend or retract them from the boards. Since I had already given my defense and stated the information I knew, I decided to stop measuring my dick against yours and put mine back in my pants. Now. If you would like to do the same, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Sammy

ah, the "bigger man" card, I was waiting for that.

you are correct, I did say defend or retract, I did not say delete, deny, or obfuscate. that was in reference to you coming back to this thread and continuing the conversation in public where it originated instead of trying to scurry off and do it "in private".

Word of the Day

Aquaria

A thread of interest

uxb's 10.02" XM

Check your reference to UXB's barrel again Tweak.

Sammy

Quoted: A thread of interest uxb's 10.02" XM

was something added?