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Posted: 11/13/2005 8:32:05 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 11/13/2005 8:46:04 PM EDT
[#2]
$400 is a little too high for what you get, IMO.
WIZZO |
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Posted: 11/13/2005 8:53:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Isn't the leitner wise conversion about the same price?
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Posted: 11/13/2005 9:11:08 PM EDT
[#4]
I wouldnt give money to Ares.
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Posted: 11/13/2005 10:27:09 PM EDT
[#5]
poor quality?
-They seem to be the only company that produces a drop in system like this. |
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Posted: 11/13/2005 10:32:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Pretty badass how the mag well on the AR15 can adapt to hold the box of ammo. That is pretty ingenious. Last I heard tho, the shrike uppers were delayed and delayed into vapor-ware.
- rem |
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Posted: 11/13/2005 10:38:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Infamous makers of the vaporware known as the Shrike. |
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Posted: 11/13/2005 10:38:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Never delivering a certain product for 5+ years |
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Posted: 11/13/2005 10:39:08 PM EDT
[#9]
I would like to see it in action before passing judgment. If it works, could be awesome. Faith in ares isnt very high after the shrike nightmare
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Posted: 11/13/2005 10:44:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Well, I wouldn't know about their uppers. I do know that this is the first time I have seen the drop in gas piston system on their website. I have visited their site on and off for the last few months, and only today did I come across it again when doing a search for drop in gas pistons. It seems to be a relatively recent update and they appear to be available for $400 (includes bolt carrier, piston system, and new oversized handguards).
I have sent them an email inquiring about the availability and the carrier's design and construction. I'll post their response when I get it. erik |
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Posted: 11/13/2005 11:16:33 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 11/14/2005 3:20:32 AM EDT
[#12]
This drop in system is available. Here is Ares response:
Sir: 1. We do not chrome the bolt carriers. It is un-neccessary because the carbon is deposited under the hand guards behind the rear sight. Gas rings are also deleted from your bolt. 2. We offer both semi and full-auto carriers, however, we do require proof of NFA Tax payment before we will ship NFA components. If more carrier mass is your objective, then you will be pleased because both the semi and full-auto carriers are high-mass carriers. They are heavier and more reliable than standard. Thank you for your interest in our products. . Respectfully, Geoffrey A. Herring Ares Defense Systems, Inc. PO Box 10667 Blacksburg, Virginia 24062 USA |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 3:32:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Ares Defense Systems?
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Posted: 11/14/2005 3:40:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Look, this isn't a thread started for the benefit of shrike nostalgia. I really haven't followed to the whole deal, so I couldn't care less. I started this thread to discuss the new drop in gas piston system that Ares is offering. It certainly looks like a cheaper solution than the leitner wise, though I haven’t gotten my hands on either yet, so I can't make any quality comparisons. It seems like something worth looking into at any rate.
From what I have read, the leitner wise setup gains an extra 150 - 200 fps (I'm assuming m855 or m193). If we can expect anything similar with the Ares Defense setup, I think it would be a great addition to any existing carbine. If it tames the cycling and extends the fragmentation range, I think it is certainly worth a look. Erik |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 4:02:20 AM EDT
[#15]
I think what people are trying to point out is that Ares has a long track record of not delivering what they promise. But hey, it's your money, good luck and I hope that if you do order one that you get it. |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 4:11:15 AM EDT
[#16]
Well, I am undecided. If I do take the plunge, I'll be sure to give a good range report.
erik |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 4:30:35 AM EDT
[#17]
Why is it that when I go to this link, I only see the Shrike? No mention anywhere of a $400 piston conversion. ETA: I figured out why I only saw the Shrike- the page wasn't loading all the way. |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 4:31:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Yeah.................You didn't get the memo? |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 4:35:35 AM EDT
[#19]
If it works I'd be interested in getting one.
I just put a couple hundred rounds thru an AR over the weekend and once again could not believe how much fouling was caked in the bolt/carrier/upper. |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 4:41:34 AM EDT
[#20]
Has anyone received the Shrike the ordered years and years ago? If not, what makes you think this drop-in gas piston system will be any different?
I'll wait until I actually see a unit for sale at a gun show or gun shop. Unitl then, no thanks! |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 4:51:23 AM EDT
[#21]
the drop in is just under the shrike garbage
http://www.aresdefense.com/GSR-35.jpg |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 5:35:20 AM EDT
[#22]
Certainly not me and the 2 I have on order. Now I'm even more pissed, they should put forth their effort and time to finish up something that was supposed to be delivered 2 years ago, instead of embarking on another product that may end up in the same boat as the Shrike 
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Posted: 11/14/2005 6:18:47 AM EDT
[#23]
I sent an email to Ares. I'm not holding my breath after seeing what the Shrike has been like.
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Posted: 11/14/2005 6:25:50 AM EDT
[#24]
I posted a reply I got from Ares above. I have sent them several more emails since. I would really like to see a more expanded page for the product. I think they need to list some more technical data and some pictures of the real deal. I'm not going to drop $400 for that one page description and concept drawings.
I have also asked them about their full auto carrier reasoning. I was under the impression that a full auto carrier was fine as long as you don't use it with any other full auto parts. Am I wrong? Why are they asking for NFA tax proof if I am right? CMMG, BravoCompany, and G&R tactical all sell full auto carriers, and none of them require any NFA tax info. What gives? erik |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 6:32:08 AM EDT
[#25]
the only thing special about the bolt is the gas key on top. you dont need a bolt for a upgrade, only the key.
a real upgrade would be the key and piston set only, not the bolt (just more $ that they are trying to get). |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 6:36:32 AM EDT
[#26]
In the email they sent me, they described both the semi and auto carriers to be "high-mass" carriers. Could this mean that they are in fact different then the standard auto and semi carriers, or are they just referring to having a shrouded firing pin?
erik |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 7:04:25 AM EDT
[#27]
shrouded..........................there is nothing different at all.
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Posted: 11/14/2005 7:10:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Well a shrouded carrier will have more mass than a non shrouded one. I'm just trying to figure out what they mean by "high-mass".
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Posted: 11/14/2005 7:22:19 AM EDT
[#29]
just pass on this.they earned thier reputation.they have also made themselves look stupid on the bolt carrier issue, or at least they are playing on hope that a customer does not know the carrier is not needed , just the one part.
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Posted: 11/14/2005 8:01:57 AM EDT
[#30]
You'd better hope that a new different carrier is required and has been designed. You CANNOT just bolt a piston key to a standard bolt carrier and expect longevity. Eventually the bolts will break. Direct Impingment carrier key bolts were never designed to have a piston smacking on them. That was a major problem with the original RHINO gas system from a long time ago. Both POF and LW address this carrier key issue, I would think Ares has as well. |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 8:40:43 AM EDT
[#31]
TAG
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Posted: 11/14/2005 9:20:32 AM EDT
[#32]
I wonder if they've actually FIRED a demo system? Deleting the bolt gas rings will cause problems, whether its direct gas OR piston driven. |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 9:28:14 AM EDT
[#33]
I trust ARES about as far as I can throw my fully loaded gun safe.
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Posted: 11/14/2005 9:57:37 AM EDT
[#34]
Let me guess.....you can't even lift it?  WIZZO |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 10:28:08 AM EDT
[#35]
You got it! |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 11:24:40 AM EDT
[#36]
The system, and I only know what my eyes told me, looks pretty close to the right idea. However, I have no idea what materials are used, treatments, etc. Specific dimentions, angles, port sizes, blah blah blah. Now, I wouldnt buy one (obviously), but I try not to shoot something down before I test it. Who knows maybe they did something right. It 'looks' like it could work. For what round count? Not sure.
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Posted: 11/14/2005 11:28:40 AM EDT
[#37]
We just parkerized a bunch of their bolt carriers, and they're beautiful. Besides HK, Ares is the only one using an integral lug for the piston rod impact point. This is critical to the long-term survival of a part like this. Anyway, here's a pic of a few of the carriers.
http://members.aol.com/gunfreak/aresbolts.jpg |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 11:36:47 AM EDT
[#38]
tag
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Posted: 11/14/2005 12:22:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Wow! thanks for the pic!
An integral key certainly would increase the longevity of the system. They haven't responded to my carrier question yet (why they want NFA tax proof for a full auto carrier). I'll post their response as soon as I get it. erik |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 12:31:44 PM EDT
[#40]
It looks good
The only issue is to my knowlege none of their ideas have ever become anything other than vaporware. When I see one in action(videos) I will get excited. $400 and only requires 1 pin to intstall, it sounds a little expensive, but if it comes to market and works I will buy one. Now if only someone would make a Hanguard like the HK 416 FREE |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 12:32:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Gunfreak, thanks for the insider info/photo. What else ya got? ;-) Do you have photos of the whole piston system, if it's OK to be pubicly released?
John |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 12:37:03 PM EDT
[#42]
What would concern me me is the point at which the the operating rod contacts the entry point into the upper receiver. "Drop-in" implies no steel bushing can be put in, as this would require machining.
So this means repeated and rapid friction by the steel operating rod against the relatively soft aluminum of the upper receiver at the gas tube entry point that was not designed to support anything but a stationary stainless steel gas tube. How long do you think this would take to fail? Not long IMO, I would like to see how this issue would be addressed in their "Drop-in" kit. I'll be looking forward to seeing more on this. |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 12:38:30 PM EDT
[#43]
Expensive? It's 1/2 the price of the next cheapest system. As to the above question about requring NFA paperwork to sell M-16 carriers, I'm sure it's just a CYA thing. Anyone in this game requires paperwork for buying NFA parts. Just makes good business sense. More pics of the carriers before heat treat and parkerizing:
http://www.aresdefense.com/GSR-35/GSR-35%20Carriers.jpg
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Posted: 11/14/2005 12:44:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Funny, Colt doesn't. My new LE6920 came with one, no NFA paperwork required. Here is what BATFE has to say about it now:   I think we all know that a BC alone will not make an AR15 fire full auto. So that means BATFE is saying it is not in fact an NFA item. That's about as clear as BATF ever gets on any issue. The BCs look good, thanks for the pics. |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 12:45:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Looks good
Now hopefully we will see an operational system soon. I too am curious on how the rod will wear when it travels back and forth thru the gas tube opening in the upper receiver. Sounds like a good product, we see the bolt carriers, hopefully they will be for sale soon. FREE
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Posted: 11/14/2005 1:08:24 PM EDT
[#46]
So you have a piston system secured on one end by a itty bitty roll pin, and the other ridding in a hole in an aluminum receiver?
The NFA thing in regards to the carrier is simple ignorance. That sort of ignorance in regards to law is about as comforting as the rod jumping around in the aluminum hole. |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 1:11:00 PM EDT
[#47]
The "integral impact lug" seems very, very smart to me. But I'm a bit leery about any system that vents hot gas under plastic handguards.
I thought the Shrike's lack of availability was due to malfunctions with rusty and gritty linked ammo. Perhaps the carbine conversion's availability won't suffer the same constraints? From the picture, it seems like they've got a zillion bolt carriers, at least. I guess I could just as well give Ares a call to see if their system is available TODAY. . . . John |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 1:48:21 PM EDT
[#48]
thant may be what the ATF said to you in February, but I wouldnt trust them to make the same ruling two times in a row. |
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Posted: 11/14/2005 1:55:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Oh come one, stop being so negative. You should be able to get at least a couple hundred or so rounds downrange before she blows! And maybe a thousand more if you take it real slow...
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Posted: 11/14/2005 1:58:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Then Colt is gonna be in a hell of a lot of trouble. All new 6920's come with M16 bolt carriers. WIZZO |
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