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Posted: 11/21/2005 2:40:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 2:50:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Good stuff.

I really enjoy reading SAR, thanks for the exclusives.
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 5:20:05 PM EDT
[#2]
what are those plastic and/or painted rifle rounds underneath the gun in the first pic?
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 5:27:20 PM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
what are those plastic and/or painted rifle rounds underneath the gun in the first pic?



"and if you look close you will notice some NATEC PCA ammo in the background that I am also testing."

BTW- My brother-in-law has been shooting a fair amount of the NATEC ammo and so far it's performed pretty well. Not as "hot" as the XM193 we usually shoot but it works and is noticeably lighter.
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 5:37:09 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
Good stuff.

I really enjoy reading SAR, thanks for the exclusives.



Huge +1!!!  Thanks!!
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 5:43:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 6:00:02 PM EDT
[#6]
wow, just when you thought you saw it all... boom something new.

great stuff!
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 6:08:25 PM EDT
[#7]
MGI.. Bangor, ME. Thats my old hometown! who are they? never heard of them.
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 6:09:02 PM EDT
[#8]
I like that lower  and I'm interested in the ammo, but what I'm curious about, is it's cost.
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 6:28:06 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
I like that lower  and I'm interested in the ammo, but what I'm curious about, is it's cost.



Here's a sampler pack, kinda pricey to me compared to the Winchester value packs.
Thinking about trying it out but not sure about the company who shows it for sale.
sampler pack
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 6:40:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Will the MGI be able to change to .308 or other larger calibers?
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 6:33:07 AM EDT
[#11]
I assume the NATEC ammo performed less than admirably, as is often the case, no?

Justin
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 7:00:13 AM EDT
[#12]
thanks for the heads up!  
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 2:21:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 2:33:02 PM EDT
[#14]
thanks for the heads up
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 2:44:07 PM EDT
[#15]
<----  Wondering why he didn't think of modular lowers..
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 2:52:52 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Will the MGI be able to change to .308 or other larger calibers?



Well according to the last issue of Shotgun News COBB Manufacturing is building a semi auto AR that will shoot .308, 30'06 etc etc. with modular mag wells. The COBB AR has the same set up ast the MGI. The article list every thing from 9mm to 30 '06.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:10:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:23:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Is that a RRA RR?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:47:15 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
With machining a whole new upper for lefties, I wonder why Stag didnt machine the notch for the charging handle on the opposite side, and make new left handed charging handles?





good question
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:53:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Intersesting, Shotgun News has an article in Nov 20th edition reviewing Cobb Manufacturing's interchangeable magazine well AR platform rifle. Looks like more than one in the industry is focusing some design effort on this idea.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:54:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 2:11:09 PM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:
MGI.. Bangor, ME. Thats my old hometown! who are they? never heard of them.



www.mgimilitary.com/

Never heard of Mack Gwinn?
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 6:45:46 AM EDT
[#23]
Tagged for more info on the lower.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 7:10:41 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
With machining a whole new upper for lefties, I wonder why Stag didnt machine the notch for the charging handle on the opposite side, and make new left handed charging handles?





good question



Cause this is something that doesn't make a real difference.

BTW, I posted some pictures of my lefty Stag in the M4gery picture thread. It works great.  
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 9:12:33 AM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:
www.smallarmsreview.com/pics/coldrifle.jpg

A great day at the range!  As you can see in this pic it was a "little" colder than it was a week ago.  On Monday it was almost 70 degrees and on Friday it never rose above freezing.  That's kind of cool anyway because it allows some great cold weather testing conditions.

Anyway, on to the good stuff.  The NATEC Polymer Cased Ammo ran great, even in these conditions.  I ran it in 4 different guns, shot off-hand groups, ran it through the chrono and ran it on the PACT Timer to measure Rate of Fire.  That's right ladies and gentlemen, this stuff ran through my 11.5-inch M16 without a hiccup!  The STAG15L was the balls too.  It is cool enough to "almost" wish you were a southpaw so you would have a reason to buy one.  Actually people like us don't really need reasons to buy anything I guess.  ;)  Shooting it right-handed I learned the importance of the brass deflector.  It was weird to have brass piling up behind the left shoulder of the shooter.....  Those guys put some major time and energy into redesigning the bolt, bolt carrier and obviously the upper.  Nice job.

The details on both pieces will be in the March issue of Small Arms Review.  I hope you enjoy the heads-up.

Thanks for the great work Team ARFCOM.

I hope to see many of you at the SAR Show in Phoenix!

Jeff Z



It seems like your experience with this ammo contradicts just about everything I've ever read about it, including some reviews posted here.  

Perhaps NATEC has modified it recently?

Justin
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 9:56:42 AM EDT
[#26]
I read the polymer ammo reduced weight by a full 33%

That would increase the basic load from 210 to 315 rounds

Impressive, if it works reliably

Link Posted: 11/28/2005 10:02:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Tagged because that MGI lower looks COOL

WIZZO
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 10:20:05 AM EDT
[#28]
tag for future updates

The MGI lower is intriguing!
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 10:26:41 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
www.smallarmsreview.com/pics/coldrifle.jpg

A great day at the range!  As you can see in this pic it was a "little" colder than it was a week ago.  On Monday it was almost 70 degrees and on Friday it never rose above freezing.  That's kind of cool anyway because it allows some great cold weather testing conditions.

Anyway, on to the good stuff.  The NATEC Polymer Cased Ammo ran great, even in these conditions.  I ran it in 4 different guns, shot off-hand groups, ran it through the chrono and ran it on the PACT Timer to measure Rate of Fire.  That's right ladies and gentlemen, this stuff ran through my 11.5-inch M16 without a hiccup!  The STAG15L was the balls too.  It is cool enough to "almost" wish you were a southpaw so you would have a reason to buy one.  Actually people like us don't really need reasons to buy anything I guess.  ;)  Shooting it right-handed I learned the importance of the brass deflector.  It was weird to have brass piling up behind the left shoulder of the shooter.....  Those guys put some major time and energy into redesigning the bolt, bolt carrier and obviously the upper. Nice job.

The details on both pieces will be in the March issue of Small Arms Review.  I hope you enjoy the heads-up.

Thanks for the great work Team ARFCOM.

I hope to see many of you at the SAR Show in Phoenix!

Jeff Z



Now what would be really nice would be if someone made an entirely left handed shooter friendly AR. The biggest thing being the lower. All the controls are still where they should be for a right handed shooter not a lefty on all the "lefty" ARs I've ever seen. It can't be that hard to "mirror" an AR lower to make a turly left handed AR15 can it be?

On the NATC ammo, did you run into any "melting neck" issues at all? How fast did you shoot the stuff? I picked up 500 rounds of it and I had issues when I started shooting fast with it. the necks would start melting a little here a little there and after a little bit polymer started building up then nothing but problems. If yer not shooting fast and heavy the stuff seems to be great, but once you really start heating up the gun it becomes crap IMO.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 10:27:24 AM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:
With machining a whole new upper for lefties, I wonder why Stag didnt machine the notch for the charging handle on the opposite side, and make new left handed charging handles?



You mean like on Sully's rifles?
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 10:43:17 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
[Now what would be really nice would be if someone made an entirely left handed shooter friendly AR. The biggest thing being the lower. All the controls are still where they should be for a right handed shooter not a lefty on all the "lefty" ARs I've ever seen. It can't be that hard to "mirror" an AR lower to make a turly left handed AR15 can it be?




 If you look at all the parts Stag had to mirror, it was quite a good bit, considering there is always the question of will there be enough interest to make $$$. They made a good quality product, that filled a niche, and for a reasonable price.

 They do have ambi safeties and the ambi mag release(Norgon) available as options to make the lower very lefty friendly. I got both of those when I got my stag upper. All thats left is the bolt release, which I actually like being on the side that it is.  And the charging handle, which hasn't been an issue for me. A tac latch might help with that.

Link Posted: 11/28/2005 10:48:04 AM EDT
[#32]
I've got to say that I was disappointed in the way the MPI portion of the Bushmaster article was written (Page 37 2nd paragraph).  It talked about 100% of Bushmaster weapons being checked for headspace, after comparing the Magnetic Particle Testing of Colt and Bushmaster.  I think it leads the reader to conclude Bushmaster conducts the same tests that Colt does, which as far as I know is not correct.

I also took issue with NJSP being brought up and blamed for the weapon laws in NJ (page 66 2nd paragraph).  The blame for those laws falls on the elected representatives of that state, and those who voted for them.  Blaming the police for laws is like blaming firearm companies for crimes, it simply isn't true.  I get back to Picatinny from time to time, and don't enjoy the firearm law they have enacted in their state, but it doesn't make me blame NJSP.  Go find the widow's of Trooper Scott Gonzalez or Trooper Phil Lamonaco and let them know your opinion.


I've read two articles so far, and I'm hoping the rest of the magazine is going to be different.  I've been please with my subscription thus far, so take my comments as you will.



Link Posted: 11/28/2005 1:01:23 PM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:
I've got to say that I was disappointed in the way the MPI portion of the Bushmaster article was written (Page 37 2nd paragraph).  It talked about 100% of Bushmaster weapons being checked for headspace, after comparing the Magnetic Particle Testing of Colt and Bushmaster.  I think it leads the reader to conclude Bushmaster conducts the same tests that Colt does, which as far as I know is not correct.

I also took issue with NJSP being brought up and blamed for the weapon laws in NJ (page 66 2nd paragraph).  The blame for those laws falls on the elected representatives of that state, and those who voted for them.  Blaming the police for laws is like blaming firearm companies for crimes, it simply isn't true.  I get back to Picatinny from time to time, and don't enjoy the firearm law they have enacted in their state, but it doesn't make me blame NJSP.  Go find the widow's of Trooper Scott Gonzalez or Trooper Phil Lamonaco and let them know your opinion.

I've read two articles so far, and I'm hoping the rest of the magazine is going to be different.  I've been please with my subscription thus far, so take my comments as you will.






The police don't have to enfore any firearms laws.  They are a cop by choice.  They are enforing an unconsitiutuional law and are just as guilty of high treason and striping away a God given human right.

When they pull somebody over, they can turn a blind eye to that "illegal" 30 rd magazine in the back seat of the car.

There is a difference between right/wrong and legal/illegal.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 1:02:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 1:02:37 PM EDT
[#35]
EDITED- I missed the above post, so my comment made no sense.....
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 1:25:53 PM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:
.. Is there something I still don't understand or were you under the impression that Bushmaster did not utilize Magnetic Particle Testing along with the Eddy Current testing?  I guess I am a little confused at what you find inaccurate. ...



Bushmaster has stated publicly on this board that they only MP test samples of each barrel lot - they do not test each and every barrel.

So MP testing is used, just not on every barrel.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 1:26:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 1:31:35 PM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
.. Is there something I still don't understand or were you under the impression that Bushmaster did not utilize Magnetic Particle Testing along with the Eddy Current testing?  I guess I am a little confused at what you find inaccurate. ...



Bushmaster has stated publicly on this board that they only MP test samples of each barrel lot - they do not test each and every barrel.

So MP testing is used, just not on every barrel.




That was my understanding as well, and I don't think the article reflected that.  Its not the end of the world, but I wished the clarification could have been made in the article along with giving Bushmaster a chance to explain their reasoning.  



I understand you didn't write the other portion, but feel free to print it out and drop it on the desk of the guy who did.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 1:44:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 2:00:51 PM EDT
[#40]
That was what it seemed like in the article, which was different than what I had heard here numerous times.  Clarification from them would be great, thankyou.  
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 7:47:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 10:07:37 AM EDT
[#42]

Quoted:
I just received the answer from Bushmaster and the information I received for the article was indeed correct.  All their barrels are Magnetic Particle Tested and not just a sampling.  I hope this helps to clear up any confusion there may have been in the past.

Jeff Z



Jeff,
Did Bushmaster say when they started to do this?

-Forest
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 10:57:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Tag
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 11:44:49 AM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:
I just received the answer from Bushmaster and the information I received for the article was indeed correct.  All their barrels are Magnetic Particle Tested and not just a sampling.  I hope this helps to clear up any confusion there may have been in the past.

Jeff Z



Thankyou for the update!

This is going to hurt a lot of Colt owners feelings, it was a big deal to them that only Colt did this.


Blah blah blah yes I'm a Colt owner......
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 12:00:51 PM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I just received the answer from Bushmaster and the information I received for the article was indeed correct.  All their barrels are Magnetic Particle Tested and not just a sampling.  I hope this helps to clear up any confusion there may have been in the past.

Jeff Z



Jeff,
Did Bushmaster say when they started to do this?

-Forest



I'd also be interested to know the anser to Forest's question.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 3:13:36 PM EDT
[#46]
On the subject of your Jan '06 issue, I am not sure whether to congratulate you on your coverage of the NDIA reporting, the Bushmaster tour coverage, or your first hand sightings of the XM307/XM320 air-burst/.50 bmg, or the SASS entries. (and HK goodies, and JSSAP lightweight...etc etc...)


On a side note, the camo-wrap looks interesting, and since the Army bought it I guess the "melt" questions are moot.


Great reads, and well done............................again.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 3:22:19 PM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I just received the answer from Bushmaster and the information I received for the article was indeed correct.  All their barrels are Magnetic Particle Tested and not just a sampling.  I hope this helps to clear up any confusion there may have been in the past.

Jeff Z



Jeff,
Did Bushmaster say when they started to do this?

-Forest



I'd also be interested to know the anser to Forest's question.



+2

Inquiring minds and all.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 3:51:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 3:57:11 PM EDT
[#49]

Quoted:
Thanks for the nice words from some of you. :)

I will ask about the timeline on this but it may be a while before I can get back to visit or check my e-mail.  I'll be doing the SAR SHOW in Phoenix over the next few days so I'll be a little tied up with my "spare" time. I hope to see some of you there!

Jeff Z



Hey Jeff, did you get any trigger time on the .499 LW?
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 6:51:12 PM EDT
[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I just received the answer from Bushmaster and the information I received for the article was indeed correct.  All their barrels are Magnetic Particle Tested and not just a sampling.  I hope this helps to clear up any confusion there may have been in the past.

Jeff Z



Thankyou for the update!

This is going to hurt a lot of Colt owners feelings, it was a big deal to them that only Colt did this.


Blah blah blah yes I'm a Colt owner......



It will indeed be a blow to many Colt owners who hang their hat on this particular subject.

But they'll come back with -

"But do they shot peen and MP the bolts????"

Colt owners.....................................so predictable.
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