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Posted: 11/26/2005 9:13:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 9:14:55 PM EDT
[#1]
tag.  Thanks
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 9:15:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Dang!

You've really been stepping up on the info posts!

Bravo!
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 9:27:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Tag.  Great post and thanks for the info!
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 9:36:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Let us know how the Geissele trigger works out.  I like the simple design.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 9:39:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Just looked up the cost on the Geissele trigger ........$279 ouch let go of my arm!!!!!
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 11:29:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Great photo's, now I know HOW my trigger works, not just how it feels.  

It makes me want a 2-stage for my 10/22...but a KID trigger is a little out of my budget right now.
Maybe someday though.  
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 11:48:57 PM EDT
[#7]
uhm, i dont see any photos? are they supposed to be there?
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 11:50:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Nicely done sir,  thumbtack worthy for damn sure.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 12:23:49 AM EDT
[#9]
tag as I'm thinking about buying another 2-stage for a varmint gun, and I can't buy another Milazzo/Krieger...
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 3:32:30 AM EDT
[#10]
tag for later

Excellent post!
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 3:40:08 AM EDT
[#11]
.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:13:03 AM EDT
[#12]
Dang, I love information.  This really helps weigh the pluses/minuses of what trigger for what purpose.  It also reminds us that the best trigger in the world can't save a poor trigger finger operator.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:55:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:08:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Excellent post.

So, to put this into perspective, in comparison to my gritty, single stage BM stock trigger, what's the operating differences?  During the hammer release cycle, with a SS trigger the rear hook never comes into contact with the disconnector, correct?  Also, is the front hook/sear engagement surface longer in length on a SS or are the angles simply different?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:15:18 AM EDT
[#15]


.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:19:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:23:08 AM EDT
[#17]
So, if I can´t afford the money for a Geisseler, HOW DO I IMPROVE THE RRA?

Is there a better pin, stronger or secured?

Thanks, H
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:28:54 AM EDT
[#18]
bigbore really adds a lot of info to this webside instead of
just advertsing his business. Thanks!!
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:29:38 AM EDT
[#19]
Big +1 on a Excellent POST and Thanks
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:40:08 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
So, to put this into perspective, in comparison to my gritty, single stage BM stock trigger, what's the operating differences?

>smoother pull, witha more crisp brake.

 During the hammer release cycle, with a SS trigger the rear hook never comes into contact with the disconnector, correct?

>Correct. The SS trigger is just the second stage of a 2 stage trigger, with MUCH more sear engagement.

Also, is the front hook/sear engagement surface longer in length on a SS or are the angles simply different?

>I dont understand the question?



I believe you answered my question in your 2nd response when you said "...with MUCH more sear engagement".  The gist of my question was if the "MUCH more enagement" was achieved through a different geometry (which requires more trigger pressure to achieve disengagement) or are the contact surfaces between the sear and hammer hook greater surface area (longer and/or wider) which I'm guessing would result in more friction/more pull weight?

Also, after looking at my BM trigger, it appears the rear hook is positioned at the bottom of the hammer, not up on the hammer tail as you've depicted with the KAC and RR pictures.  The only time the rear hook ever contacts anything is when it contacts the disconnector on the reset cycle.  The hook for the sear is down way low on the hammer, and with everything installed, I'm not sure I can even see a sear.  It looks to me like the front edge of the disconnector is being used as the sear and when the hammer hook engages that surface, it's almost directly under the hammer pin.  But without taking everything apart, it's hard to see what goes on down in the bowels of the FCG.

ETA:  Sorry, I started posing my follow-up questions before the picture in your earlier response loaded on my screen.  From the picture, it does look like the sear engagement surface is separate from the disconnector.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:50:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:51:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 9:16:10 AM EDT
[#23]
But if the Geissele trigger has 3 set screws instead of 2 does that not mean MORE parts than the KAC not less?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 9:23:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 9:27:21 AM EDT
[#25]
Could someone please add pictures of the Jewell trigger?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 9:35:21 AM EDT
[#26]
Another excellent technical post, thanks Steve!
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 9:47:36 AM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 9:50:58 AM EDT
[#28]
WOA Page with Another Good Pic of Giessele

Where is the overtravel screw adjuster located, in the trigger housing or at the back of the bow?  If it were to loosen, where would it end up, in the trigger's guts, maybe tying things up, or would it fall harmlessly to the ground?  

Also, Mr Giessele posted in another thread that his screw adjustments have some nylon, or a nylon-like layer coating the threads which makes them reasonably stiff in adjustment stock.  He seemed to have pretty high confidence his screws would hold adjustment just fine.  Maybe heat or solvents could affect them over time, who knows.  If anyone has concern, just hit them with some Locktite as has been suggested in the past.

ETA:  Looks like it's maybe up front.  Theres some adjustment sticking out below the trigger housing, just like on the KAC.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 10:17:20 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 10:32:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:04:11 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
There is a new player on the block. The Geissele trigger...



Nice pun, great thread.


Can any of these triggers (or others, e.g. McCormick) provide, out of the box or through safe adjustment, a single stage pull with little creep, a 3-5 lb crisp break, and little overtravel, while remaining reliable enough for duty/service use?

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:20:33 AM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:25:19 AM EDT
[#33]
tag
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:29:47 AM EDT
[#34]
WOW... great post.

Looking at these photos of the RRA trigger made me think of something.  I need to make the first stage of my RRA trigger a heavier pull.  Can I do this by fitting stronger trigger and/or hammer springs?

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:48:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Excellent post, Steve -- well done once again!

The Geissele is a good trigger.  Bill re-designed his sear/disconnect geometry to fit both the AR/M16 and SR25/AR10T on USAMU request.  It is a very fast, durable trigger.

The AMU still uses Krieger/Milazzo triggers, however it's becoming very, VERY difficult to get replacement parts.  We have the Geissele in our ammo/upper test lower receiver assembly; XM110 prototypes (AR-10Ts); and a few M4 Designated Marksman Carbines.

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:48:05 AM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Can any of these triggers (or others, e.g. McCormick) provide, out of the box or through safe adjustment, a single stage pull with little creep, a 3-5 lb crisp break, and little overtravel, while remaining reliable enough for duty/service use?



Not sure what you mean?  You want to take a 2 stage trigger, and eliminate the second stage?

I dont understand why people dont think a 2-stage trigger is reliable enough for duty/service use.
This 2 stage trigger did just fine for many years, and few wars.



I'm not suggesting that I believe there is a link between reliability and whether a trigger is designed to have 1 or 2 stages - I don't.  However, I think some triggers are duty/service rugged while others are more suited for the range.  I have inferred from your post that you feel the same (e.g. your comments on RR/LMT/KAC vs. Jewell).

Away from the range, my personal preference is for single stage triggers.  (I don't hate 2-stage triggers; I have some.)  Do you know of any triggers that provide a single stage pull with little creep, a 3-5 lb crisp break, and little overtravel, while being reliable enough for duty/service use?

I don't know the trigger market well enough to know if there are single-stage designs that provide this, or if there are 2-stage designs that can by design safely provide this via adjustment of the first stage pull length to zero.

Thanks.


Link Posted: 11/27/2005 12:02:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 12:17:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Tag
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 12:54:26 PM EDT
[#39]
great post...Thank you  I have the LMT and it did more to improve the performance of my carbine than any other modification.  I'm hoping that won't be true when i get my MGI RRB.  Anyway great info
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:56:56 PM EDT
[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you know of any triggers that provide a single stage pull with little creep, a 3-5 lb crisp break, and little overtravel, while being reliable enough for duty/service use?



In the RRA/LMT design, you can stone away some of the face of the disconnector. It will still disconnect, but when you pull through, there will be no second stage.  I've seen several RRA triggers that people had worked on themselves, and didnt realize they turned their triggers into single stage triggers, yet the still function as a trigger.  But, you still have the extra parts in the picture.

Besides that, I dont have enough experience with single stage triggers, and actually I've heard of more fancy single stage triggers failing than, standard 2 stage triggers.



Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 2:44:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 2:51:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Tag, great info......
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 3:35:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Tag, Thanks for your awesome posts Bigbore
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:20:47 PM EDT
[#44]
What a great, technical post.  It helped so much to understand through your great pics and videos.

Dr Mark, look into the McCormick single stage triggers.  I have one for my carbine.  Installation is a breeze (they really are drop-in), and the pull is 3 lbs.  VEEERRRY smooth trigger to say the least.  Just enough resistance for me.  If you like single stage feel, then try McCormick.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:45:53 PM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
uhm, i dont see any photos? are they supposed to be there?



Are they there now?




they are,i switched browsers from firefox back to IE. sorry about that. Great post!
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:56:27 PM EDT
[#46]
Tag.

And if this post is not tacked it would be a damn shame.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 5:56:27 PM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:
Dr Mark, look into the McCormick single stage triggers.  I have one for my carbine.  Installation is a breeze (they really are drop-in), and the pull is 3 lbs.  VEEERRRY smooth trigger to say the least.  Just enough resistance for me.  If you like single stage feel, then try McCormick.  Good luck!



I'm aware of the McCormick triggers, but haven't tried one yet.  Since they're fairly new, I'd like to see how history judges them (how they hold up).

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 6:52:55 PM EDT
[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So, if I can´t afford the money for a Geisseler, HOW DO I IMPROVE THE RRA?

Is there a better pin, stronger or secured?

Thanks, H



For me to battle Mr Murphy, I replace the standard peened in place pin, with a long tool steel pin - I do the same with LMT triggers. Long enough that if it ever did come loose, it has no where to go.  

If your trigger isnt broken, dont fix it.  

www.adcofirearms.com/trigger/rra_pins.jpg



Does the LMT trigger that i purchased from your website have this upgrade like the improved RRA trigger.  I assume that it does as it was quite a bit more expensive than the RRA.  Thanks
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:27:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:05:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Tag for report
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