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Posted: 12/17/2005 11:00:44 PM EDT
[#1]
What will you be using it for?
The AR pistol is a fun range toy. The AR SBR is fun at the range, but is also a great HD/SD gun. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 11:32:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Your going to carry a AR Pistol as your CC weapon? 
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Posted: 12/17/2005 11:58:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Mostly Range, plinking, etc. but you just NEVER know! href=http://p3.hostingprod.com/@ronniejamesdio.org/diobannerwerock.gif |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 12:01:51 AM EDT
[#4]
No...but since it's classified as a pistol, I can carry it just about anywhere, vehicle, etc. That was my point...and I actually COULD carry it concealed, I guess...but my point is the 'convienence' of being a pistol as opposed to being a rifle, and especially a SBR....comprende? --Scot www.ScotClayton.org www.RonnieJamesDio.org www.CraigGoldy.org www.SMCProductions.org www.TonyIommi.org www.AR15info.org http://p3.hostingprod.com/@ronniejamesdio.org/diobannerwerock.gif |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 12:21:26 AM EDT
[#5]
That's what i love about ND. You cna carry anything. pistol, rifle, showgun, subguns, AOW, you name it. heck, you coudl even carry chuck norris, if he'd let you. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 2:16:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Not a flame, just a curious question: would not a AR pistol work just as well for HD / SD as a AR SBR? Have never shot a AR pistol so I don't know how it handles, but since it's the same round, I'd think they are the same, infact I think the pistol would be better. Smaller, easier to handle etc. I ask because I'm thinking about buying / building an AR pistol. Thoughts? Gene |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 2:32:38 AM EDT
[#7]
They both shoot about the same. However, the stock of an SBR makes it more controllable and makes follow up shots quicker. For me, the AR pistol is for hip/point shooting. The SBR is for aimed fire. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 3:53:54 AM EDT
[#8]
both!
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Posted: 12/18/2005 4:07:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Sorry to be off topic, but what up with all "that"? Credentials? For info.? 
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:38:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Just some of my websites....href=http://p3.hostingprod.com/@ronniejamesdio.org/diobannerwerock.gif |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:40:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Now...I have to admit, that's a GREAT idea! href=http://p3.hostingprod.com/@ronniejamesdio.org/diobannerwerock.gif |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 8:27:48 AM EDT
[#12]
IMHO...I don't like the way the buffer tube is exposed on the pistol, so I, BY FAR, like the SBR more than the pistol. I rather have an SBR and also be able to adapt a forward pistol grip, than just have a BIG pistol for CCW.
Just my $.02!!! 
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Posted: 12/18/2005 9:04:25 AM EDT
[#13]
An SBR also has alot more real estate to add goodies (optics, NV, flashlight, etc....).
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Posted: 12/18/2005 9:18:04 AM EDT
[#14]
AR Pistol is a range toy.
If you want a CCW, then carry a Glock or similar - an AR pistol/SBR is just plain too big for any sort of convenient carry unless you like trench coats and are expecting trouble. If you want a truck rifle, then carry an AR carbine... it is really not much bigger than an SBR/pistol, especially if you disassemble it. If you want something small and instantly ready to go, then try an AK underfolder, which is the same size as the smallest AR SBR/pistols: 
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Posted: 12/18/2005 9:18:05 AM EDT
[#15]
As far as 'hanging goodies' on, you can make a pistol have just as much room. I have never hung anything but a sling on the buttstock. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 9:32:50 AM EDT
[#16]
I couldn't decide either. Here's what I have so far. Now I'm broke for a while. I hope to be able to afford the SBR fees next year. Then I can put the pitol uppers on the SBR lower.
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=261292 While were talking about the "applications" of the AR pistols. I'll just say that they fall in line with "applications" of the HK SP-89. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 11:21:14 AM EDT
[#17]
I agree, I 'like' the looks of a SBR better, etc. That wasn't my question, or any of my points. Since most SBR's are almost/or the same barrel lenghts, their performance is about the same, ballistically, right? ...but most places (I think approx 30 states) I could carry my AR Pistol or AK, or HK, or whatever in my vehicles, across state lines, take with me anyplace I could my normal CCW, but the SBR, technically I have to have permission to take it across state lines, etc. tax stamp, paperwork, etc, etc...k? href=http://p3.hostingprod.com/@ronniejamesdio.org/diobannerwerock.gif |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 11:22:52 AM EDT
[#18]
Really? That I don't get...most would have EXACTLY the same room for 'goodies'! One doesn't usually mount a bunch of 'goodies' on the stock, right? --Scot www.ScotClayton.org www.RonnieJamesDio.org www.CraigGoldy.org www.SMCProductions.org www.TonyIommi.org www.AR15info.org http://p3.hostingprod.com/@ronniejamesdio.org/diobannerwerock.gif |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 11:26:12 AM EDT
[#19]
You are missing my point, I t hink too...I DO carry a 'regular' sidearm of various makes as my regular CCW, but since it's LEGAL to carry a pistol, I could just about carry a AR pistol, or AK, HK, etc, etc...just about anywhere... Most states that allow CCW, don't allow loaded rifles, whether they are carbines, or underfolders, etc...but a pistol would be legal...right? href=http://p3.hostingprod.com/@ronniejamesdio.org/diobannerwerock.gif |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 11:32:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Yeah..I hear ya... I'll probably eventually pick up a couple of SBR's, but I was thinking since I've got a few regular AR's, AK's FAL, etc that I might put up a pistol first (or make one, etc.) and it wouldn't be so restrictive as a SBR, because of the paperwork, etc. I don't think I'll have ANY problems with the local sigs, as the current, and next possible Sheriff are family friends...anyway...I'm rambling a bit today... Didn't get much rest last night ...anyway...some great discussions....I've lurked here for quite awhile on and off over the years, but just started posting here.... Hope everyone gets LOTS of weapons for Xmas! LTR --Scot www.ScotClayton.org www.RonnieJamesDio.org www.CraigGoldy.org www.SMCProductions.org www.TonyIommi.org www.AR15info.org http://p3.hostingprod.com/@ronniejamesdio.org/diobannerwerock.gif |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 12:02:30 PM EDT
[#21]
I've dinked around with the concept of an AR pistol, but I haven't done it yet (I still have 4 receivers left out in the shop). Something about that buffer tube just looks kinda gay, like a big dildo sticking out towards my face or something.
 On the other hand I have 4 AK pistols, 3 AMDs 1 Yugo Krinkov and plans to cut a romanian kit into a pistol. I feel they are great defensive weapons, I've shot the krinkov from the modified weaver stance with far better accuracy than my 8" ruger redhawk. If you do buy/build an AR pistol just use the CAR length tube, as the old pistol tube was unreliable. I see the 7 1/2" barrels are prone to needing tinkering to run 100% as well (from what I hear 11 1/2" is the only length than runs very well out of the box.) My only gripe with the AR platform is the buffer tube though. I see where you're comeing from with the CCW thing, you just want to keep it in your car, right? Luckly in my state you can carry loaded long guns conceiled even if you don't have a CHL. No, I wouldn't buy a SBR, most people will tell you never to use a NFA weapon as a defensive weapon, it should be kept in a safe. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 12:20:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Here in Missouri we are allowed to carry any "concealable firearm" that is any firearm with a barrel shorter than 16" concealed in a vehicle WITHOUT a permit and are allowed to carry the same outside of a vehicle with a permit. Rifles, shotguns, and handguns may be carried openly fully loaded if you wish but it is not a good idea in St. Louis and Kansas City, Cape Geardeau and surrounding metro areas because Missouri cities are allowed to prohibit open carry but not concealed carry. So under the concealable firearm definition short barreled shotguns under 16" SBR's and AOW's are all allowed to be carried under Missouri's concealed weapon statute.
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Posted: 12/18/2005 6:30:09 PM EDT
[#23]
A good friend of mine picked up an AR-15 pistol at last years CRW/SAR show. Had it about one month before he decided to put in the SBR paperwork. The AR pistol is an incredibly awkward muzzle heavy beast. His new SBR is a really handy little thing.
Paperwork took about 9 months :-( |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 6:44:59 PM EDT
[#24]
That guitar case full of guns is boss. Alls you are missing is the mariachi suit.
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Posted: 12/18/2005 6:50:05 PM EDT
[#25]
In WA you cannot have a loaded rifle or SG, to include a loaded mag in the rifle or SG. We alos cannot have SBR or SBS.
You can have a loaded (AR) pistol of any kind, hell you can carry it if you so desire. I have 2, and love them. One is on a single point sling, and hangs just right to be carried if need be. The other is a work in progress. Shooting? Just great!  |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 10:48:20 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 12/19/2005 1:00:36 AM EDT
[#27]
Well I called the local police dept today and they informed me that SBR's are not allowed on Guam...
Guess I'll be building a AR pistol..Gene |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 1:13:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Yep.... Oh well... at least you cna have the AR pistol. www.triplebreakproducts.com/FAQ/title_2_regulations.htm |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 4:57:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Funny...and I agree...it does take something away from it...but some of them look ok...esp. with the foam covering. |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 5:00:14 PM EDT
[#30]
???? |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 2:33:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Can't you buy the AR pistol, and put a collapsable stock on it? In other words, what makes a SBR and SBR, and a pistol a pistol?
Don't glock pistols have aftermarket butstocks? What's the difference between that and putting a telescopic stock on an AR pistol? |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 2:49:31 PM EDT
[#32]
The beauty of the AR family is that you can make them into anything you want.
Both is the answer. You put yourself together an AR pistol. At any time in the future, you buy a new lower that you register as an SBR. Any time you want, you move the upper from one lower to the other lower. The pistol lower was never made into a rifle, only the upper moves. Nothing up my sleeve. When you go out of state, you use your pistol lower. When you are home, you use your SBR lower. In addition, you can now own two short lowers and not be worried about getting busted for intent. For instance, you have a 10.5" upper and a 7.5" upper. You keep one on the SBR and one on the pistol. Switch at will. Both uppers have a legal lower. In addition, you can have the pistol and be enjoying it while you are waiting to get the tax stamp back from ATF. Another little hint if money is short. Buy the lower, do the Form 1 and send it to ATF. While you are waiting to get it back, you can gradually buy the other parts (fire control parts kit, stock). |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 3:17:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Well, I understood all that, but you didn't really answer my question.
Can I buy an AR pistol and put a telescopic butstock on it? If so, why would I bother with an SBR and the $200 stamp? |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 3:50:55 PM EDT
[#34]
No. Anything with a stock on it is a rifle. If you have a weapon with a barrel under 16" and a stock, you have a short barreled rifle. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 4:06:23 PM EDT
[#35]
So, this is an SBR? Needs stamp?
http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT%20Show%202001/Day2/Fobus_Glock_Shoulder_Stock.jpg |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 4:12:46 PM EDT
[#36]
No, it's not a real gun.  Seriously, yes that would be a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR). Anything with a barrel length of under 16 inches with a butt stock is a SBR. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 5:05:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Oh, this is all so stupid. Thank you US Govt!
Several exceptions and gray areas come to mind. I'm sure all of which have been discussed before and been ruled upon, so I won't waste the bandwidth. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 5:25:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Be very careful that you follow the laws with regards to SBR/Pistol etc.
If you dont the Feds will want to Machinegun your son in the back, shoot your wife in the face while she breastfeeds your newborn, and shoot you in the back while you check your sons dead body. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 6:56:15 PM EDT
[#39]
Sooooo, I could build an AR pistol with a stock and a barrel 16inches or more and that would be leagal? Ohhhh wait, I already have that, my AR rifle...  Yep, I'm going to have to build an ar pistol. I just ordered two blemished lowers from rb percision one for a rifle and one for a pistol
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Posted: 12/20/2005 11:01:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Thanks for the list. It looks like most cool stuff is allowed in Ohio. |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 4:16:15 AM EDT
[#41]
 got bored one night n tried choppin some pics, not a real big fan of barbon guns but, id be nice. |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 5:13:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Bottom is a AR pistol with 11.5" bbl and CAR buffer tube.
It works pretty well fired from the shoulder though is has no shoulder stock. It is the closest I can get to a SBR in MI. The cool thing is that it can be carried with a CCW permit. The sling swival prevents a stock from being slipped on. I've since replaced that buffer tube with one from a post ban fixed telestock tube with the plastic cut off. That tube has no adjustment holes in the bottom. I left a ring of the original glued on plastic stock on it to keep another stock from being slipped on. I also have a different red dot sight on it now. 
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Posted: 12/21/2005 10:20:27 AM EDT
[#43]
I dont understand the CCW thing. I can carry a SBR in Texas concelaed or unconcelaed and CCW permits dont work out of state for the most part. I can also get permission to take the SBR to every state in the country for shooting in competitions or whatever for a 1 YEAR pass. So I have to do some paperwork for the SBR each year I want to take it out of state and I cant stop and stay with it in certain states (but can travel through them).
The big question is why CCW matters? I carried an AR or AK for years in my vehicle and the CCW had nothing to do with it. I vote SBR btw. Get a non SBR for traveling out of state. |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 1:16:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I've been considering a couple of SBR's, but after thinking about it for awhile, I'm not sure. Several Points: SBR's - Tax Stamp and 'paperwork', restricitons on out of state, where and when I can take it, etc. Pistols - No resitrictions of above, can just about carry it anywhere, as my CCW, etc. Many of us have considered the pros and cons of pistol caliber rifles and rifle caliber pistols. The bottom line is that there is a ballistic and tactical reason for each. If you want to carry a hidden weapon get a pistol. Otherwise get a rifle. Making a hybrid defeats the benefits that each weapon has. If the fun factor is what you are after then it does not matter. Your choice might be easier if you shot several rifle caliber pistols. The AR/AK pistols are so damn loud that if you fired one in self-defense without hearing protection BOTH you and your target would be injured. He might be dead but you would be deaf. |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 1:37:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Most all states DON'T allow carry of loaded rifles in vehicles. My CCW is valid in approx 30 states. So I can carry a 'pistol' just about anywhere. That's the reason for the 'CCW thing' that you don't understand.
See above!
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Posted: 12/21/2005 1:40:23 PM EDT
[#46]
TNX for the pics..Nice!
EXACTLY.....sorry, you can't do the 'SBR' thing in MI. Maybe you can get old 'Sweaty Teddy' to work on that for you guys! 
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Posted: 12/21/2005 1:59:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Pigmy,
I am tired of people saying your shouldn't use an AR Pistol for defense because you will go deaf. I have an AR Pistol, 7.5" SBR, and a couple of 16" AR's. The noise difference between the three is not that great. Even though I do not advocate using the "shorties" for selfe defense I think the "going deaf" argument doesn't hold water. If I have to use my S&W 360PD 2" 357 mag for self defense I am going to have hearing loss. Does that mean I shouldn't use a 357 mag? Of course not. Deaf is deaf, you should use what ever you think will get the job done. I would rather be alive with hearing loss. MadDog
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Posted: 12/21/2005 2:35:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Yeah...I agree..pretty lame arguement.....just about ANYTHING shot in a enclosed area is INSANELY loud! It cracks me up, that TV and Hollywood always show this and afterwards, everyone has NO problem communicating!  |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 3:48:03 PM EDT
[#49]
In Michigan, ones CCW is for pistols only. It is actually called a Carry Pistol License. Michigan does not allow SBRs. |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 3:50:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Could I put a supressor on an AR pistol? That would help with the "going deaf while shooting ZOMBIES" problem?
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