Alright get your stones ready to throw because the soccer stadium is just around the bend...

Anyway took out my all LMT mil-spec crem de' la crem M4A3. As well as a Bulgarian 5.56 AK. Temp was around 15 degrees F outside with a slight chill in the air. Cleaned the LMT prior to shooting, used teflon dry on lube, basically it sprays on lightly then leaves a teflon coating, did the Bulgy AK the same.  I didn't use to much.

Ran 500 rounds total for the day through both guns. However the LMT had several jams, failure to extract, double feeds, for about 18 jams ( one or two per mag) for the 200 rounds fired. Used LaBelle mags which it didn't like (anti-cant followers), but the LMT liked the new Orlites better. Ended up just putting it away because it is an LMT and it is all pimped out; rail system, tac light, Knight's Flip up 600m plus I was getting confusing looks from the other guys. Most were trying to figure it out, some stopped by maybe it's the extractor, could be the chamber, could be the mags, could be the followers, could be the ammo, or it could be because it is .....stones ready..... an AR15.

Took the Bulgy out, 5.56 AK, ran three hundred rounds, not one jam, not one malf, used ten different mags, not one problem to report.

The amo used was some S&B 62gr steel core, course I should have spent 50 cents a round for the Lake City stuff to cure all woes. I realized it isn't the mil-spec rifle, the mags, the ammo, it is because the AR is designed with such tight tolerances that air tempurature does effect the cyclic rate etc. The AK is designed to function, tolerances are not as tight, accuracy within 1.5 MOA instead of under 1MOA or whatever but the AK just runs.

So my LMT is my range gun now, in time it might loosen up, and run better but the AK is reliable and my go to gun. Plus while examing all the issues, field stripped the LMT and used a cleaning rod to knock one of the casings out of the chamber, I somehow lost the cotter pin to hold the firing pin in, luckily someone had a spare.  The AK, well never had to spend twenty minutes knocking out casings with cleaning rods or looking on the ground for a cotter pin- course I couldn't imagine being under fire and having the same things happen.

Just my story, just my weekend, just my .02,

Creeper      

Sorry if I ruffled some feathers, when you have this kind of money in an AR it should run, every time, run. I won't sell it, I know I can get it to work, maybe have a new extractor installed and polish the chamber or something, who knows, but it does LOOK cool.

Your right, your LMT sucks,....you need to send it to me for proper disposal........

Tag for diagnosis....

Try different slings and mag floor plates!

interesting...
I don't think temps have anything to do with it.

It was the only thing I could think of, if the bolt and carrier group is mil-spec MP tested and the chamber is mil spec, the extractor mil spec, the mags, ammo everything just about mil spec then I can't figure it out except I have had other ARs jam in extreme cold conditions before.

If you are running the LMT enhanced bolt and you're not using mil-spec 62gr. ammo out of a 14.5" barrel you can expect problems right off the bat.

Are you running the enhanced bolt?

Quoted: interesting... I don't think temps have anything to do with it.

I agree, its a clear case of a faulty trigger actuating nut, and improper lubrication combined with what sounds like the break in of a new weapon.

A faulty what? Trigger actuating nut? Improper lubing, this was the stuff they gave a friend of mine who was in Iraq for two years. It is like a quick dry teflon stuff, that comes in a clear tube. Basically it leaves only the teflon behind and no actual oil for dust particles to adhere to. Break in it could be but I'm not running an enhanced bolt since I heard they have problems. Just a regular LMT bolt, carrier, barrel, upper, lower, stock set etc.

Quoted: Alright get your stones ready to throw because the soccer stadium is just around the bend... Anyway took out my all LMT Should have bought a Colt/Bushy/RRA!! mil-spec crem de' la crem M4A3. As well as a Bulgarian 5.56 AK. Temp was around 15 degrees F outside with a slight chill in the air. A chill in the air at 15 degrees F? The hell you say!! Cleaned the LMT prior to shooting, used teflon dry on lube, You used dry lube!! Should have used CLP/Mili-Tech/ran it dry!! basically it sprays on lightly then leaves a teflon coating, did the Bulgy AK the same.  I didn't use to much. You used too much/didn't use enough!! Ran 500 rounds total for the day through both guns. However the LMT had several jams, failure to extract You aren't running a Wolf spring/D-Fender/weighted carrier/H-buffer!!, double feeds Bad mags!!, for about 18 jams ( one or two per mag) for the 200 rounds fired. Used LaBelle You should have used Okay/Colt/H&K!! mags which it didn't like (anti-cant followers) You should have stuck with the older followers/used Mag-Puls!!, but the LMT liked the new Orlites better Liar!!. Ended up just putting it away because it is an LMT and it is all pimped out; rail system, tac light, Knight's Flip up 600m plus I was getting confusing looks from the other guys. Most were trying to figure it out, some stopped by maybe it's the extractor, could be the chamber, could be the mags, could be the followers, could be the ammo, or it could be because it is .....stones ready..... an AR15 NnnnnOoooooooo!!. Took the Bulgy out, 5.56 AK, ran three hundred rounds, not one jam, not one malf, used ten different mags, not one problem to report. Yeah, but you couldn't hit anything and it has shitty ergos!! And just try to do a tac reload!! The amo used was some S&B 62gr steel core, course I should have spent 50 cents a round for the Lake City stuff to cure all woes. You didn't use Lake City/Black Hills!! I realized it isn't the mil-spec rifle, the mags, the ammo, it is because the AR is designed with such tight tolerances that air tempurature does effect the cyclic rate etc. Whoa, what? Prove it with scientific data or a scanned copy of your DD-214!! The AK is designed to function, tolerances are not as tight, accuracy within 1.5 MOA Impossible!! instead of under 1MOA or whatever but the AK just runs. So my LMT is my range gun now, in time it might loosen up, and run better but the AK is reliable and my go to gun. Plus while examing all the issues, field stripped the LMT and used a cleaning rod to knock one of the casings out of the chamber, I somehow lost the cotter pin to hold the firing pin in, luckily someone had a spare.  Damn n00b!! The AK, well never had to spend twenty minutes knocking out casings with cleaning rods or looking on the ground for a cotter pin- course I couldn't imagine being under fire and having the same things happen. You'd be too tired lugging that milled receiver around to look for a cotter pin!! Just my story, just my weekend, just my .02, Creeper

My Bulgy is a stamped reciever. My DD214, well I believe it's dated October 1998.

how new is the gun?  Is it a build? (frankengun?)  fuck it, throw it in the trash

I don't understand all of these AR problems people are having...I have a colt with about 6 thousand rounds through it, and i have never had any problems whatsoever, no jams, no FTF/FTE, and I shoot cheap factory reloads. maybe i am just lucky. but a bunch of guys at my range shoot all kinds of ARs too, and i've never seen them have any problems either.

bad magazines are a rifle's worst enemy. get some USGI 30 rounders and i bet your problems will clear up.

Quoted: Used LaBelle mags which it didn't like (anti-cant followers), but the LMT liked the new Orlites better.

I wonder how many times a day someone on this site says, "well I have one, I've run 10,000 rounds through it and never had a problem."

Is it that fucking hard to realize that maybe your gun is an exception?  That goes for those that jam and those that work flawlessly.  as if one's experience with a gun either proves or disproves the reliability of a particular weapon.  There's guys on here that have Mini-14s and swear by them, there's guys on here that swear by century cetmes.  Get the point?  Get back to the problem at hand, and offer sound suggestions instead of, "well mine works flawlessly..."

Quoted: I wonder how many times a day someone on this site says, "well I have one, I've run 10,000 rounds through it and never had a problem." Is it that fucking hard to realize that maybe your gun is an exception?  That goes for those that jam and those that work flawlessly.  I'm going to kill the next person that comes on and keeps saying that shit, as if your one experience with your one gun either proves or disproves the reliability of a particular weapon.  There's guys on here that have Mini-14s and swear by them, there's guys on here that swear by century cetmes.  Get the point?  Get back to the problem at hand, and offer sound suggestions instead of, "well mine works flawlessly..."

wow man, i was just trying to get the point across that good magazines would probably solve some of his problems.

and someone who curses their head off and threatens to kill people on a gun website should probably take a step back and think about how they are representing the cooler headed gun owners on the site.
and if you read my post, i offered the suggestion of new mags quite clearly.

and by telling people about my sucesses with MY rifle, and my friends successes with THEIR rifles, i figure it helps to prove the reliability of the AR platform, and disprove myths of unreliability.

edited.

All I was getting across was that it doesn't make logical sense to give the example of the reliability of one weapon proof of the reliability of all of them.  The M1A is another example, a lot shooters love them, but then I heard constant CQ problems.  You could of left out the "mine works without a hitch problem" seeing as it doesn't help the thread at all.  

he's not trashing the AR platform from what I read.  He's making a suggestion that since it failed like this before in similar weather, it could be a con of the platform.

Quoted: If you are running the LMT enhanced bolt and you're not using mil-spec 62gr. ammo out of a 14.5" barrel you can expect problems right off the bat. Are you running the enhanced bolt?

proof puhhhlleeeezzeee.......

alright, understood. but i did offer the idea that USGI mags solve a lot of problems in my post.

so back to the point. USGI mags with the updated green followers are awesome, and solve a lot of problems.

here is a GREAT deal. there are plenty of other sites with good USGI mags everywhere.

www.tapco.com/product_information.asp?number=MAG0999&back=yes&dept=156&last=73

Each individual gun, is just that, an individual.

I've never had a jam with my AR.  I've used a multitude of mags/ammo.  

Quoted: Each individual gun, is just that, an individual. I've never had a jam with my AR.  I've used a multitude of mags/ammo.

well I had an out of the boxed, oiled cleaned, cared for bushmaster that gave me more than one problem multiple times.  My friend has a colt match target that jams on russian ammo, yet my build on a colt upper takes it fine.  Get the point yet?

Shooters have bought AKs that constantly give them problems...

So you think it was the ammo?

has it ever run reliably?

Kinda embarrassing isnt it, with a full-on AR15 dressed to kill, and there you are digging in it like a fat kid pickin' his nose.

Quoted: Quoted: Alright get your stones ready to throw because the soccer stadium is just around the bend... Anyway took out my all LMT Should have bought a Colt/Bushy/RRA!! mil-spec crem de' la crem M4A3. As well as a Bulgarian 5.56 AK. Temp was around 15 degrees F outside with a slight chill in the air. A chill in the air at 15 degrees F? The hell you say!! Cleaned the LMT prior to shooting, used teflon dry on lube, You used dry lube!! Should have used CLP/Mili-Tech/ran it dry!! basically it sprays on lightly then leaves a teflon coating, did the Bulgy AK the same.  I didn't use to much. You used too much/didn't use enough!! Ran 500 rounds total for the day through both guns. However the LMT had several jams, failure to extract You aren't running a Wolf spring/D-Fender/weighted carrier/H-buffer!!, double feeds Bad mags!!, for about 18 jams ( one or two per mag) for the 200 rounds fired. Used LaBelle You should have used Okay/Colt/H&K!! mags which it didn't like (anti-cant followers) You should have stuck with the older followers/used Mag-Puls!!, but the LMT liked the new Orlites better Liar!!. Ended up just putting it away because it is an LMT and it is all pimped out; rail system, tac light, Knight's Flip up 600m plus I was getting confusing looks from the other guys. Most were trying to figure it out, some stopped by maybe it's the extractor, could be the chamber, could be the mags, could be the followers, could be the ammo, or it could be because it is .....stones ready..... an AR15 NnnnnOoooooooo!!. Took the Bulgy out, 5.56 AK, ran three hundred rounds, not one jam, not one malf, used ten different mags, not one problem to report. Yeah, but you couldn't hit anything and it has shitty ergos!! And just try to do a tac reload!! The amo used was some S&B 62gr steel core, course I should have spent 50 cents a round for the Lake City stuff to cure all woes. You didn't use Lake City/Black Hills!! I realized it isn't the mil-spec rifle, the mags, the ammo, it is because the AR is designed with such tight tolerances that air tempurature does effect the cyclic rate etc. Whoa, what? Prove it with scientific data or a scanned copy of your DD-214!! The AK is designed to function, tolerances are not as tight, accuracy within 1.5 MOA Impossible!! instead of under 1MOA or whatever but the AK just runs. So my LMT is my range gun now, in time it might loosen up, and run better but the AK is reliable and my go to gun. Plus while examing all the issues, field stripped the LMT and used a cleaning rod to knock one of the casings out of the chamber, I somehow lost the cotter pin to hold the firing pin in, luckily someone had a spare.  Damn n00b!! The AK, well never had to spend twenty minutes knocking out casings with cleaning rods or looking on the ground for a cotter pin- course I couldn't imagine being under fire and having the same things happen. You'd be too tired lugging that milled receiver around to look for a cotter pin!! Just my story, just my weekend, just my .02, Creeper

15 degrees and no winter trigger guard?!?!  there's your problem.


1.5 MOA out of an AK?  

Quoted: Unless you bolt was DRIPPING wet with oil, it was not lubricated properly. A dry film lube is NOT a good choice. C4

I have heard the same...wondering why he used it.

Quoted: Quoted: If you are running the LMT enhanced bolt and you're not using mil-spec 62gr. ammo out of a 14.5" barrel you can expect problems right off the bat. Are you running the enhanced bolt? proof puhhhlleeeezzeee.......

Try LMT themselves.  They are the ones who told me the enhanced bolt would not run in my 10.5" upper (it would not) and that anything other than a 14.5" with 62gr. ammo was a crap shoot.  So if you need proof, call them.  They'll be straight up with you.

While you are at it call Grant or Roxanne at G&R Tactical and ask them how their customers with LMT enhanced bolts are running.  And while you are still looking for proof puhhhleeeezzeee....if LMT and G&R Tactical aren't sufficient ask WES at MSTN the same question.

So the proof is out there, if you take the time to ask.....

And others concur, but call LMT and ask them...

My ARs seem a bit tempramental about ammo.  None of them like Wolf, for example.  That said, they all have always functioned flawlessly with 20-to-25-cent-per-round XM193 or Q3131A and USGI mags (I've never used non-USGI mags).  That said, I got no beef with AKs - got my eye on an Arsenal.

Should have bought a Bushmaster.

Before you start dumping more money into the gun (i.e., new mags) go back to the basics of troubleshooting.  In other words, eliminate the simple first.  You should have gotten an owners manual with the weapon, which has a very simple troubleshooting guide in the back.

Sounds like a very cold weather and lube issue.  I've seen the problems that you're experiencing with the use of teflon dry lubes.  In that, if you don't get all of the pre-lubed parts squeeky clean before applying the teflon. . . .  

Certain lubes don't mix.

Creeper - more info on the problems please

Double feeds - my own double feeds are mag related - not weapon - what can you tell us about your mags? Were you getting 2x feeds with all your mags?

Lube issues - what works best in the sand might not be best in the cold.... how long inbetween shots  - condesation? Freezing? (grasps at straws)

What ammo?

Tell us more about your extractor - is it chipped or otherwise FUGLY? Some folks swear by those thick D-ring extractor washer whammy jammies, I some regulars and some whammy jammies - all seem to yard the case out  the same way but YMMV

So.... long story short - more info please

Process of elimination is in order.

Get some good mags that prove to work in another AR, then test in yours.  Green or Magpul followers.

Eliminate the Teflon, and go with Breakfree CLP (works for me).  Dry Film Teflon in 110F Iraq, may not work the same at the range in 15F.  They use dry film for the sandy conditions, is your range sandy?

Mags and different Lube will eliminate two unknowns....

Is your key sticking to your gas tube?  I hear that will cause some headaches, and is pretty common.

I am a mil spec LMT an dI put about 600 rounds thru here when I was home on leave, no probs at all but I used GI and B co mags and M855 and M193 ammo.

Yes it sounds more mag related than anything. Be sure to double check the extractor and ejector for any problems. Its a shame because if your parts are new they should run flawlessly. I do know a fix, but its kind of expensive. Gauranteed to work though! A gas piston upper from POF or LW. Then it will be accurate like an AR and reliable like an AK!

Quoted: 15 degrees and no winter trigger guard?!?!  there's your problem. 1.5 MOA out of an AK?

Not in his wildest dream.

Quoted: I do know a fix, but its kind of expensive. Gauranteed to work though! A gas piston upper from POF or LW. Then it will be accurate like an AR and reliable like an AK!

Quoted: 15 degrees and no winter trigger guard?!?!  there's your problem. 1.5 MOA out of an AK?

minute of automobile

+1 for using different mags.  The only jams I've had on my RR is due to me buying cheap unlabeled (steel) magazines or using polymer cased ammo.  I've never had a jam on a labeled USGI mag, and they aren't that much more expensive.  Even my cheap USGI mags have never jammed.  Even when I was shooting in 30 degree weather with a light rain.  

Also, my owners manual says to use a CLP oil on my AR.  Maybe the teflon stuff is just not spec?  

*AHEM*

He fucking said he tried LaBelle and they jammed... they are USGI... riiiiiight?

Quoted: The AK is designed to function, tolerances are not as tight, accuracy within 1.5 MOA instead of under 1MOA or whatever but the AK just runs.

I hate to be nitpicky, but tolerances on AK's are not loose, but clearances are.  

Tolerance - A tolerance is the total amount by which a specific dimension may vary; thus, the tolerance is the difference between the maximum and minimum limits.


Clearance Fit - A clearance fit is one having limits of size defined such that a clearance always results when mating parts are assembled.

Quoted: I do know a fix, but its kind of expensive. Gauranteed to work though! A gas piston upper from POF or LW. Then it will be accurate like an AR and reliable like an AK!

Don't bet on it. On Sat. I tried out a brand new 9.5" POF upper. On three different M16s(Colt A1, Olympic A2, Bushy RDIAS) and I only got one mag out of it with out a jam. It failed to extract or eject 1 out of 3 rounds. Multiple ammo types and mags were tried.
Pat
0-1-25

Quoted: 1.5 MOA out of an AK?

It's ok.  Keep practicing and you'll soon be shooting as good as the rest of us.  

Quoted: Quoted: I do know a fix, but its kind of expensive. Gauranteed to work though! A gas piston upper from POF or LW. Then it will be accurate like an AR and reliable like an AK! Don't bet on it. On Sat. I tried out a brand new 9.5" POF upper. On three different M16s(Colt A1, Olympic A2, Bushy RDIAS) and I only got one mag out of it with out a jam. It failed to extract or eject 1 out of 3 rounds. Multiple ammo types and mags were tried. Pat 0-1-25

A buddy of mine did a 300 round mag dump with his 16" POF upper sitting atop a Colt M16 lower without incident this weekend..

I see the AK boards must be slow tonight......

WIZZO

Quoted: A faulty what? Trigger actuating nut? Improper lubing, this was the stuff they gave a friend of mine who was in Iraq for two years. It is like a quick dry teflon stuff, that comes in a clear tube. Basically it leaves only the teflon behind and no actual oil for dust particles to adhere to. Break in it could be but I'm not running an enhanced bolt since I heard they have problems. Just a regular LMT bolt, carrier, barrel, upper, lower, stock set etc.

I think the Military gives out CLP for lube.

Quoted: Quoted: I do know a fix, but its kind of expensive. Gauranteed to work though! A gas piston upper from POF or LW. Then it will be accurate like an AR and reliable like an AK! Don't bet on it. On Sat. I tried out a brand new 9.5" POF upper. On three different M16s(Colt A1, Olympic A2, Bushy RDIAS) and I only got one mag out of it with out a jam. It failed to extract or eject 1 out of 3 rounds. Multiple ammo types and mags were tried. Pat 0-1-25

Something must be wrong with the POF. If it is functioning like it is suppose to( nothing bent , broken, improper install, etc) it should shoot fine. Ive put more than 2000 rounds out of mine without a hitch. Pistons work! Let POF know about your issue, Im sure that they will want to see what the problem is.

Obviousley it is an aberation. We have been using a 14.5 POF upper for a while now and have had zero failures. Some times you just happen to get the lemon.
Pat
0-1-25

Ohhhhh Boy!

I know Im getting off topic and I apologize, but I could see one way for the POF to have a failure to feed issue. If you are using a standard CAR spring or just a weak spring in combination with Wolf or weak ammo, the weapon may not feed relaibly. Being that the POF does not have a return spring on the op rod , it makes the recoil spring do all of the work trying to push the bolt assembly and the piston assembly back into battery alll by itself. Ive never had an issue but it could be one. I do use the 2x power recoil spring with the POF and it works great.

Ok back on the original topic!!!!
Try other magazines. Gety you some HK's and that will eliminate the magazine being your problem. Install a viton Oring in your extractor and use an H buffer or something better such as MGI or enidne.
Make sure that you do not have any gas  leaks. CHeck the front sight base. Good luck. Your weapon should be very reliable.