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Posted: 2/4/2006 10:15:23 PM EDT
[#1]
That does not look like Rock Rivers work.
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Posted: 2/5/2006 12:51:48 AM EDT
[#2]
I Agree. I do care about my equipment and do the best I can to take care of it and to keep it running smoothly. And totally agree that none of us should except sub par craftsmenship, but honestly my "Not so well done" feed ramp'ed Bushmaster has less problems then my complete stock Bushmaster. So if isnt broke dont try messing with it, and to get slammed on by people on this forum because of my decision to not send it back is a bit out of line, ya know. 223REM, btw, honestly you very well could take your dremel to that upper and clean it up and it would be good to go for sure. But I do understand that its the just the fact of the matter that it was sold to you, and you were expecting a perfect product. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 4:30:44 AM EDT
[#3]
The company I work for issues steel-toed rubber boots to all of our production employees. We are talking hundreds of pairs of boots. A few months after we started this program, we began to get compliants of leakage around the the seam at the sole of the boot. Not every pair, in fact less than 20 out of our total order.
Ok, the employees that were having a problem were issued replacements, and no more problems.....we chalked it up to a bad batch. Nevertheless, we mentioned it to our sales rep, who in turn said something to the factory. A few weeks later, we got a call. The factory had found a minor flaw in one of its molds. Very minor, and it was causing problems with less than 1% of their production. But since this boot is also used in HAZ-MAT work, that minor flaw could have had some very serious consequences for some user down the road. The flaw was fixed, and the only negative affects were a few wet socks. His gun may be a freak lemon that just slipped by, or it could be a problem in some area of production that hasn't been uncovered yet, and if left un-checked it could, just maybe, cause a gun to fail when someone is in fight for their life. Report it, make them fix it, and consider the possibility that the factory learns something from it. Somebody might get to hug their wife and kids at the end of shift because you spoke up! |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 4:36:57 AM EDT
[#4]
My 20HBAR Bushwhacker had that done! I like it!
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Posted: 2/5/2006 6:20:50 AM EDT
[#5]
That is the grossest hack job I've seen on ramps. I'd be slightly concerned of that extension staying in one piece. There has been alot of metal removed there. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 7:09:49 AM EDT
[#6]
1. If RRA did this to the upper they should come good for it and replace it. 2. If selling dealer had anything to do with this (selling it as a RRA factory build but assembling it themselves out of RRA parts) we all should know about their practice of doing so. 3. 223Rem I'm sure works hard for his money like most of us here and in no way should be expected to lay down and accept a poorly made item he paid good money for, no matter what it was. Send it back and let us know what RRA says about it. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 11:21:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Bro you should have gone with LMT..........If you want the real shit go to the real dealers. That RRA, Bushmaster & Colt crap is only advertising hype. You never see CMT or LMT advertised in magazines or on gun store shelves. Screw the aftermarket dealerships. Go right to the guy who makes the stuff........You will not get screwed!!!!!!!!!
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Posted: 2/5/2006 12:05:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Huh... Your telling us that COLT is aftermarket? After what market? |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 12:44:31 PM EDT
[#9]
My year-old RRA upper looks like this:
 From this picture, you can see that my ramps, though not anodized, are regular, smooth, SMALL, and clean. (There's plenty of dust from the tissue I wiped CLP off of the whole thing with, but that's not what I'm talking about.  )
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Posted: 2/5/2006 1:17:35 PM EDT
[#10]
That looks like crap. I would hope if RRA is sending nasty looking junk like that out the doors, they will stand behind it and give you another one. I personally don't care if it WORKS. I would care more about how long it might last.
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Posted: 2/5/2006 1:20:21 PM EDT
[#11]
These are how mine look, too. Clean but obviously a dremel job. I've had no malfunctions but if CMT is their supplier it would make whole lot more sense for RRA to source uppers with the proper ramps and extensions than hacking into virgin metal and defacing an otherwise beautiful product. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 1:30:41 PM EDT
[#12]
I'll add to my original statement- if you receive a "new" rifle that is sub par and you aren't getting on a truck or plane on your way to a gunfight or war take the time to send it back.
But, if you've fired 500 rounds through it and then notice it's not quite right when you clean it, AND yuo had no problems with it, then don't worry about it. Just keep it in mind for the next time you buy a rifle. Check the new one before you fire it. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 11:42:09 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:19:18 PM EDT
[#14]
are you sure that the dealer you bought this from didnt do this, i just got a new upper from RRA and it is perfect
sorry to hear about this happening to you |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:19:44 PM EDT
[#15]
WTF are you talking about? Colt is the originator of the M4 feedramps. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:25:27 PM EDT
[#16]
RRA says they never made the DEA Carbine uppers? That might have been Pete with LT that came up with that one if RRA didn't. I can't say I for sure I saw it on their site, but I am pretty sure they did advertise it and they are lying to you.
Wow. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:26:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Fair enough. This is the position I would take. And for the record my RRA Entry Tact. doesnt look like that. I wasnt even expecting feed ramps. My RRA is the only one that has them, but I've never had an issue with my AR15's that dont, so I dont see what all the fuss is about |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:41:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Wait so Rock River is now denying that they sell a DEA rifle?? Or am I misunderstanding?
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:52:06 PM EDT
[#19]
There is some faulty dremeling there, and none like I've ever seen come from RRA. That's not to say RRA didn't do it, but one thing in particular sparks my interest. Notice the out right puncture on the feed ramp in the left side of the picture. I have never seen a dremel do such damage, and that isn't a burn. That looks like some one intentionally hammered a sharper object into it. As I mentioned, I highly doubt a dremel could do that, especially on 4140 steel. That looks like some one tried to stake the extension and the receiver with a screw driver.
 
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:52:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Its all confusing marketing crap blown out of wack by dealers attempting to make their "RRA" parts sound better than the other RRA dealer. Kinde like, I sell RRA bolt carrier groups, while another dealer is selling RRA "enhanced" bolt carrier groups... RRA never sold a DEA rifle to the public, they sell the "Government Model" to the public. If some dealer buys a RRA CAR A4 Upper and installs a Surefire M73 - they call it the DEA upper in their EE post..... RRA has never claimed their barrels/uppers have M4 barrel extensions/ramps, but dealers will put that in the add and tell the customer the dremmel marks are "M4 Ramps". I think the dremmel ramps that RRA adds to their receivers are unnecessary and just plain stupid, as they continue to cause posts like this. But they have been doing is for at least 4 years now, so why stop? In reality, those marks/ramps/cuts whatever, dont matter one bit, so just shoot it. Its really not worth getting upset over. If you are unhappy, call RRA and explain to them that you want them to send you an upper that they did not dremmel, and I'm sure they will take care of you. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:52:47 PM EDT
[#21]
+1 This is the cause of this whole problem you got yourself into. RRA "ramps" are a hack job no matter how cleanly it is done or no matter how you try to rationalize or justify it. Al anodizing is broken when these "ramps" are cut, exposing Al to whatever. I would rather have a no ramp upper than a RRA hack job. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:53:32 PM EDT
[#22]
RRA has a forum here. Why not post this there, where they may see and respond, rather than/in addition to, General Discussion, where they may not see it?
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Posted: 2/18/2006 12:57:32 PM EDT
[#23]
As was stated earlier, ALL of RRA's uppers and complete rifles come with the butchered feedramps to some degree or another. It will function just fine, but the issues arise when it comes time to replace your barrel. No barrel with a true M4 barrel extension or a standard rifle extension will match-up to your dremeled receiver without also needing to be butchered  To me, it makes absolutely no sense why they (RRA) does this crap.
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Posted: 2/18/2006 1:04:14 PM EDT
[#24]
The irony is that the public outcry for M4 ramps likely prompted RRA to cut them in. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 1:12:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Don't waste your time... I had already IM'ed the moderator of that forum, spoke my thoughts about this matter and gave him the link to this discussion... He replied saying that those feedramps are OK and are normal and that there was already a twenty something page topic about this in the past and he also said that COLT does this kind of thing too... Needless to say, after that response, I will never ever buy any of RRA's products again, period... There's way to many other AR parts dealers out there that have better attitudes towards their products and I will only deal with them in the future... |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 1:18:06 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 2/18/2006 1:26:20 PM EDT
[#27]
How about calling them? How many times do we have to go over this?
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Posted: 2/18/2006 1:34:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Notice the fold and the burred aread. Reguardless of what you say, I still don't believe that's a burn. The way it's shiny, folded over, and burred is in my opinion, evidence that it's not a burn. I don't know how RRA would have done that with even the smallest of stones. Reguardless, it looks like it must have been an off day for the guy that normally does the work. I still don't think M4 ramps are necessary, especially dremeled ones. However, if it works with no flaws, it still works. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 1:37:53 PM EDT
[#29]
It sounds like it's official now that RRA did the hack grinding. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 2:04:58 PM EDT
[#30]
You say you bought it from a dealer. Was he an offiical RRA dealer? Did you verify this? As someone else said above, I'm not in agreement that this is an RRA-built upper at all. Did you check out the ID marks on the other parts? What does the barrel say? How is the flash hider indexed? Crush or peel washer? If the dealer called it a DEA upper and RRA says they do not make a DEA upper (this is true), just a DEA rifle, then I'd look at the dealer first and foremost. Seems to have started with him.
Those marks are clearly done by someone who did not have the correct tools or fixtures to hold the upper in place while dremeling. I've seen a lot of RRA uppers with dremeled feed ramps and none have ever looked like that. They aren't even polished, let alone uniform cuts. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 2:05:41 PM EDT
[#31]
RRA already made an unofficial official response via email. It sounds like another dealer just confirmed what I though. The dealer in the EE that claims he's not just another "kitchen table dealer" must mean he doesn't do his dremel work at the kitchen table, huh? 
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Posted: 2/18/2006 2:08:10 PM EDT
[#32]
RRA should hire a competent machinist to build some jigs to do them properly, at least.
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Posted: 2/18/2006 2:14:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Maybe yours was made on a monday and one of the techs was hung over!
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Posted: 2/18/2006 2:15:25 PM EDT
[#34]
I have an RRA A2 receiver that I bought ~ 2 years ago which also has the "Dremeled" feedramps. I installed a barrel in it and have shot ~ 500 rounds through it without any issue.
Just as an FYI, that line is apparently true. There have been a few reports of factory Colt uppers with dremeled feedramps. Most (all?) have been 6520 uppers. They started using M4 barrel extensions on the newer 6520 barrels but apparently do not have a large enough supply of A2 uppers with properly machined\anodized M4 feedcuts. Their solution apparently was to whip out the dremel? Either way, I have mixed feelings on this whole thing. On one hand, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a cheesy and stupid thing to do. Match the barrel ext to the correct receiver and leave the damn dremel alone! On the other hand, with all of the threads that have been started about this issue, I don't remember anyone ever claiming they have had feed issues that could show it was a direct result of having dremeled feedramps? So is this much ado about nothing? I don't know but this "issue" does rank high on my list of threads I wish would quit getting rehashed every few months as if it was some breaking news. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 2:28:27 PM EDT
[#35]
So, 223Rem, have you called RRA and asked about it? |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 2:44:45 PM EDT
[#36]
The feed ramps on my RRA upper were dremeled too. I would prefer M4 ramps, but I have had no feed failures in 2000 rounds, so I have no complaints. Thanks for a great rifle RRA!!
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/forgiver/ramps.jpg |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:02:14 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:05:32 PM EDT
[#38]
I'm well aware of it, I've seen pictures of them... But, COLT never put out dremeled hacked up ramps that looked like that... Even those Bushmaster canyons pictured in this thread are clean, yeah deep, but still clean looking... There's no excuse for letting something that looks that bad leave the factory, period... Its a damn shame RRA compared that hack job to ramp cuts that are clean looking and done with a tad bit of skill... |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:06:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Hell yeah it does, without a doubt... |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:27:54 PM EDT
[#40]
I've never checked my stag arms upper to see if it even had feed ramps.
 It does but they don't look like the ones pictured, they're really smooth and look integrated rather then cut out. Is that good? |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:22:15 PM EDT
[#41]
I have a del-ton flat top upper with no dremeling... but the barrel does have the M4 ramps.... I may do my own dremeling somtime... but for now it feeds fine. I would rather do my own than some hack artist!
jim |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:24:01 PM EDT
[#42]
After the military Market! just yanking a chain. I thought all Colt 6520's had M4 ramps, I have a 4 digit serial number pre-ban 6520 that has factory M4 feedramps. Bill |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:32:38 PM EDT
[#43]
got a question about the feed ramps. Are they a must have, Im not trying to stir up shit I realy don't know. After reviewing this thread I just looked at my Les Baer M4 and there are no ramps like in the pics you guys posted. The barrel extension has the ramps but nothing is cut into my receiver like you guys have. Ive never had a feeding problem (ever), So am I just getting lucky or do you not really need them?
Maybe its because I built it piece by piece over the last year and didn not do them myself. I don't know if Baer puts them in when he builds a rifle or not. but I don't have them and it feeds great. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:40:19 PM EDT
[#44]
no |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:56:01 PM EDT
[#45]
I've got an RRA upper.
It doesn't have the M4 feed ramps.. Hell, it doesn't have any feed ramps. It's a 9mm |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 5:05:25 PM EDT
[#46]
If that was my upper I just bought from RRA, I'd be so mad I'd shoot that sucker until the barrel was worn out & I'd send it back and have them put another barrel in it. I think the promary question here is form versus function. Sometimes things that work are not pretty (ever look over an eastern bloc AK?). My advice is go shoot it. If the asthetics continue to bother you or if it won't shoot, call RRA, talk to Mark, & tell him your story. I'd think he'll do whatever it takes to make you a happy customer either way.
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Posted: 2/18/2006 5:27:59 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm started to lean towards the idea that this was assembled by the dealer and not RRA.
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Posted: 2/18/2006 5:28:22 PM EDT
[#48]
StylesBitchely ---is it the lighting in your photo.....it sure looks like someone slipped with the dremel on the right side and put a nice nick in the receiver. As Bigbores has pointed out......this is the problem with someone trying to "free-hand" ramps in, when they are probably not needed for this particular rifle to function.
When you are working on the line --- it only takes a tiny slip [ of the dremel ] a couple times a day for these things to get out and cause bad press. It does boil down to workmanship -- if they are going to do it, then they are obligated to do it right, up to professional standards. I would think & hope that both the dealer and RRA would work to resolve this problem --if the customer was willing to give them a chance. I have yet to see where the customer has called RRA and talked personally with someone about his problem. Throwing e-mails back and fourth means nothing to me IMHO TOO easy to miss understand ones intentions. Please make the call and let us all know what RRA [ a real person ] is willing to do to help you. Thanks.......... JF. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 5:30:58 PM EDT
[#49]
lol.... ChainSaw Construction, LLC!!!! It's an industry term I use alot for shoddy competition! |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 5:34:54 PM EDT
[#50]
About 2 years ago I had bought a RRA rifle and it came with the dremel feed ramps and a chromoly barrel. I wanted to swap out the barrel for a chrome lined one because I was using frangible ammo and it was a pain to scrub clean. Rather than mess with the dremeled upper, I sold the complete upper and replaced it with a Bushy upper and barrel. |
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