Army Times article about the HK416

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Army Times article about the HK416

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:09:52 PM EDT

Good read.

0351

Army Times HK416 Article

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:13:52 PM EDT

[#1]

Army Times=Army Enquirer. To much drama and gossip for me.

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:52:49 PM EDT

[#2]

“If we have a change that we think would help the gun, we go to the Army which is not an easy process, by the way. We spent 20 years trying to get [an extractor] spring changed. They just said ‘well, this works good enough.’”

Posted: 2/22/2007 9:00:40 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

“If we have a change that we think would help the gun, we go to the Army which is not an easy process, by the way. We spent 20 years trying to get [an extractor] spring changed. They just said ‘well, this works good enough.’”

Good read. But I suppose it's all made up because according to ARFCOM there is nothing wrong with the M16.

Posted: 2/23/2007 8:09:30 AM EDT

[#4]

i didnt know vickers was a ol dboy. ill talk to my uncle, see what kind of man he really is.

Posted: 2/23/2007 9:32:29 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
i didnt know vickers was a ol dboy. ill talk to my uncle, see what kind of man he really is.

HUH?! What kind of guy "he really is"... The guy was a Firearms INSTRUCTOR for SFOD-D for christs sake. Go to Vickers Tactical.

Here's a little "snipit" of his Military background....

I have been very fortunate to have had the distinction of serving my country with some of the most elite military units to ever exist. This experience has literally made me who I am today and has had an immeasurable impact of every facet of my personal and professional life. I spent over 20 years in the US Army with my entire career in Special Operations. The last 15 years in 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta, commonly referred to as Delta Force. Prior to that my time in the Army was in Special Forces, including 5th, 1st, 11th (reserve) and 10th Special Forces Groups. I retired as a Master Sergeant in March 2004.

The high point in my military career was early the morning of December 20th, 1989 when I was one of 23 members of Delta Force who rescued CIA operative Kurt Muse from Modelo Prison in Panama City, Panama. This mission initiated 'Operation Just Cause' and is the first successful hostage rescue operation in modern US military history. This operation has been cloaked in secrecy for nearly two decades. So much so that few inside the US military or even the Spec Ops community even knew about the mission. The veil of secrecy will be lifted this summer as Kurt Muse is releasing a book about the rescue mission and his ordeal in Modelo Prison. The title of the book is 'Six Minutes to Freedom' from Citadel publishers. It is co-written by John Gilstrap and is due to be released in July 2006. Be advised to protect individuals still in US Government service many of the names in the book have been changed. I did many things I am very proud of in service of my country but without doubt I am most proud of my participation in 'Acid Gambit', the code name for the Modelo Prison rescue operation.

In addition to Panama, I saw service in Desert Storm, Somalia, Bosnia and other places on operations and activities that remain classified. In addition to my time as an assaulter in Delta Force, I spent time in weapons research & development where I initiated several products in use in Spec Ops today (see my products development page) and served as a combat marksmanship instructor training new operational members of Delta. In fact I have trained more Delta and Tier One operators in combat marksmanship skills than anyone in US Special Operations history. This is an accomplishment I am particularly proud of as Delta has earned a reputation second to none in the military shooting arena. I am proud to have contributed to that reputation in a positive way.

Some of my military schools and awards are as follows:
• Operator Training Course
• Special Forces Qualification Course
• Special Forces Military Freefall Course
• Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SF Sniper School)
• Airborne School
• Infantry Advanced Individual Training
• Jumpmaster School
• Military Freefall Jumpmaster School

and numerous other military schools and courses.

Awards and badges include:
• Bronze Star with 'V' device for actions in Panama
• Joint Service Commendation medal with 'V' device for actions during Desert Storm
• Defense Meritorious Service Medal
• Meritorious Service Medal
• Combat Infantrymans badge
• Military Freefall Badge
• Special Forces Tab

and numerous other awards and badges.

I have been put in a unique position to be able to pass on some of the lessons learned in an environment with superb resources, excellent facilities, and absolutely first class personnel.

Much of the equipment and techniques used in today’s military environment owes it's lineage to the organization I worked with for the better part of two decades. I am proud to be a part of that lineage and stand ready, where operational classification does not apply, to pass on lessons learned in blood, sweat, and tears by individuals like myself.

Posted: 2/23/2007 9:36:06 AM EDT

[#6]

Like the rest of his men, Self always carried a cleaning rod zip-tied to the side of his weapon in case it failed to extract a round from the chamber...

Thats an option. Of course so is taking the bolt apart and cleaning the sumbitch. These guys are Rangers. It really bothers me that THEY had problems with thier extractors. Thier are only two reasons for a FTE. If the extractor is defective, DX it for a new one. If it is dirty, clean it. If you know you are having FTEs, but you carry a cleaning rod instead of cleaning/DXing your extractor, I really dont know what to tell you. Yes, I am aware the Army supply system can be a bitch (I've got my fingers crossed that when I go to drill this month they will finally have a XL MICH waiting for me, not to mention a XL bottom half of the new fleece cold weather gear, now that winter is over

). Im also aware that a new extractor costs about $15.

This is NOT 1965. The fact that the AR-15 family of weapons has to be cleaned and lubricated is no longer considered new information.

Posted: 2/23/2007 9:56:38 AM EDT

[#7]

A former Ranger who was on that mission commented on another forum. He more or less said that they were very very short on support and parts so their rifles did not get the armorer level replacement of worn parts like they needed.

They were shooting a LOT and not able to replace weapons when they were worn out. Not a cleaning issue.

Posted: 2/23/2007 9:59:29 AM EDT

[#8]

Maybe if soldiers cleaned them. A lot of pogues (yes, I know pogues are different than the 'real' men of the military) I've seen in Iraq had weapons so dirty, it make civilian AR owners cringe and question what we are teaching folks in the military.

Posted: 2/23/2007 11:00:14 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
i didnt know vickers was a ol dboy. ill talk to my uncle, see what kind of man he really is.

HUH?! What kind of guy "he really is"... The guy was a Firearms INSTRUCTOR for SFOD-D for christs sake. Go to Vickers Tactical.

Here's a little "snipit" of his Military background....

I have been very fortunate to have had the distinction of serving my country with some of the most elite military units to ever exist. This experience has literally made me who I am today and has had an immeasurable impact of every facet of my personal and professional life. I spent over 20 years in the US Army with my entire career in Special Operations. The last 15 years in 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta, commonly referred to as Delta Force. Prior to that my time in the Army was in Special Forces, including 5th, 1st, 11th (reserve) and 10th Special Forces Groups. I retired as a Master Sergeant in March 2004.

The high point in my military career was early the morning of December 20th, 1989 when I was one of 23 members of Delta Force who rescued CIA operative Kurt Muse from Modelo Prison in Panama City, Panama. This mission initiated 'Operation Just Cause' and is the first successful hostage rescue operation in modern US military history. This operation has been cloaked in secrecy for nearly two decades. So much so that few inside the US military or even the Spec Ops community even knew about the mission. The veil of secrecy will be lifted this summer as Kurt Muse is releasing a book about the rescue mission and his ordeal in Modelo Prison. The title of the book is 'Six Minutes to Freedom' from Citadel publishers. It is co-written by John Gilstrap and is due to be released in July 2006. Be advised to protect individuals still in US Government service many of the names in the book have been changed. I did many things I am very proud of in service of my country but without doubt I am most proud of my participation in 'Acid Gambit', the code name for the Modelo Prison rescue operation.

In addition to Panama, I saw service in Desert Storm, Somalia, Bosnia and other places on operations and activities that remain classified. In addition to my time as an assaulter in Delta Force, I spent time in weapons research & development where I initiated several products in use in Spec Ops today (see my products development page) and served as a combat marksmanship instructor training new operational members of Delta. In fact I have trained more Delta and Tier One operators in combat marksmanship skills than anyone in US Special Operations history. This is an accomplishment I am particularly proud of as Delta has earned a reputation second to none in the military shooting arena. I am proud to have contributed to that reputation in a positive way.

Some of my military schools and awards are as follows:
• Operator Training Course
• Special Forces Qualification Course
• Special Forces Military Freefall Course
• Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SF Sniper School)
• Airborne School
• Infantry Advanced Individual Training
• Jumpmaster School
• Military Freefall Jumpmaster School

and numerous other military schools and courses.

Awards and badges include:
• Bronze Star with 'V' device for actions in Panama
• Joint Service Commendation medal with 'V' device for actions during Desert Storm
• Defense Meritorious Service Medal
• Meritorious Service Medal
• Combat Infantrymans badge
• Military Freefall Badge
• Special Forces Tab

and numerous other awards and badges.

I have been put in a unique position to be able to pass on some of the lessons learned in an environment with superb resources, excellent facilities, and absolutely first class personnel.

Much of the equipment and techniques used in today’s military environment owes it's lineage to the organization I worked with for the better part of two decades. I am proud to be a part of that lineage and stand ready, where operational classification does not apply, to pass on lessons learned in blood, sweat, and tears by individuals like myself.

no disrespect meant, but im gonna seek out first hand knowledge of his character. people are people anywhere you go, not everybody gets along. before i take his word as law, im gonna get more information.

Posted: 2/23/2007 11:07:22 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
i didnt know vickers was a ol dboy. ill talk to my uncle, see what kind of man he really is.

HUH?! What kind of guy "he really is"... The guy was a Firearms INSTRUCTOR for SFOD-D for christs sake. Go to Vickers Tactical.

Here's a little "snipit" of his Military background....

I have been very fortunate to have had the distinction of serving my country with some of the most elite military units to ever exist. This experience has literally made me who I am today and has had an immeasurable impact of every facet of my personal and professional life. I spent over 20 years in the US Army with my entire career in Special Operations. The last 15 years in 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta, commonly referred to as Delta Force. Prior to that my time in the Army was in Special Forces, including 5th, 1st, 11th (reserve) and 10th Special Forces Groups. I retired as a Master Sergeant in March 2004.

The high point in my military career was early the morning of December 20th, 1989 when I was one of 23 members of Delta Force who rescued CIA operative Kurt Muse from Modelo Prison in Panama City, Panama. This mission initiated 'Operation Just Cause' and is the first successful hostage rescue operation in modern US military history. This operation has been cloaked in secrecy for nearly two decades. So much so that few inside the US military or even the Spec Ops community even knew about the mission. The veil of secrecy will be lifted this summer as Kurt Muse is releasing a book about the rescue mission and his ordeal in Modelo Prison. The title of the book is 'Six Minutes to Freedom' from Citadel publishers. It is co-written by John Gilstrap and is due to be released in July 2006. Be advised to protect individuals still in US Government service many of the names in the book have been changed. I did many things I am very proud of in service of my country but without doubt I am most proud of my participation in 'Acid Gambit', the code name for the Modelo Prison rescue operation.

In addition to Panama, I saw service in Desert Storm, Somalia, Bosnia and other places on operations and activities that remain classified. In addition to my time as an assaulter in Delta Force, I spent time in weapons research & development where I initiated several products in use in Spec Ops today (see my products development page) and served as a combat marksmanship instructor training new operational members of Delta. In fact I have trained more Delta and Tier One operators in combat marksmanship skills than anyone in US Special Operations history. This is an accomplishment I am particularly proud of as Delta has earned a reputation second to none in the military shooting arena. I am proud to have contributed to that reputation in a positive way.

Some of my military schools and awards are as follows:
• Operator Training Course
• Special Forces Qualification Course
• Special Forces Military Freefall Course
• Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SF Sniper School)
• Airborne School
• Infantry Advanced Individual Training
• Jumpmaster School
• Military Freefall Jumpmaster School

and numerous other military schools and courses.

Awards and badges include:
• Bronze Star with 'V' device for actions in Panama
• Joint Service Commendation medal with 'V' device for actions during Desert Storm
• Defense Meritorious Service Medal
• Meritorious Service Medal
• Combat Infantrymans badge
• Military Freefall Badge
• Special Forces Tab

and numerous other awards and badges.

I have been put in a unique position to be able to pass on some of the lessons learned in an environment with superb resources, excellent facilities, and absolutely first class personnel.

Much of the equipment and techniques used in today’s military environment owes it's lineage to the organization I worked with for the better part of two decades. I am proud to be a part of that lineage and stand ready, where operational classification does not apply, to pass on lessons learned in blood, sweat, and tears by individuals like myself.

no disrespect meant, but im gonna seek out first hand knowledge of his character. people are people anywhere you go, not everybody gets along. before i take his word as law, im gonna get more information.

You should take heed infsqdldr and not offend the mighty vickers, some of the guys here get on their knees and suck his ... you know what.
I'm curious to know what "perks" he gets for telling the world how vastly superior an HK product over others.

Posted: 2/23/2007 1:11:04 PM EDT

[#11]

C'mon guys... let's use a little common sense here.. as one Poster put it.. the Army Times is not exactly the most accurate rag out there. So take anything in that article with a grain..

As to LAV.. I think he has a pretty established set of credentials. I'm sure he has some strong opinions based on way more experience then 95% of any of us on this board. Does that make him the Gospel??
No, but I respect his opinion and acknowledge his experience and would expect you would treat him the same way you should treat anyone who has served his country with honor and distinction for over 20 years. I think has has earned that from everyone here..

Posted: 2/23/2007 1:22:37 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
the Army Times is not exactly the most accurate rag out there. So take anything in that article with a grain..

Just because the word "Army" is in the title doesn't mean that Army Times gets any special access, nor that the publication gets it right most of the time-they don't. It's all the same paper, whether it's called "Army Times," "Navy Times" or "Air Force Times," and the most special stuff they get is that they are sold in the Exchange. Not an "authoritative" publication by any means.

Posted: 2/23/2007 2:00:02 PM EDT

[#13]

For me the Army Times was good for one thing………Promotion Point Scores!

Posted: 2/23/2007 2:49:00 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the Army Times is not exactly the most accurate rag out there. So take anything in that article with a grain..

Just because the word "Army" is in the title doesn't mean that Army Times gets any special access, nor that the publication gets it right most of the time-they don't. It's all the same paper, whether it's called "Army Times," "Navy Times" or "Air Force Times," and the most special stuff they get is that they are sold in the Exchange. Not an "authoritative" publication by any means.

And IIRC it is actually printed by USA Today.

Posted: 2/23/2007 3:30:27 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
You should take heed infsqdldr and not offend the mighty vickers, some of the guys here get on their knees and suck his ... you know what.
I'm curious to know what "perks" he gets for telling the world how vastly superior an HK product over others.

Who's sucking his dick? I've never met the guy myself. He does have opinions, just like everyone else, and you don't have to agree with him. You may want to "take heed" on what he says though, as he has more experience in combat arms than 99.99% of the people on this board. He was an Operator and INSTRUCTOR, for the WORLDS best Combat Shooters/CT Unit. Infsqdldr, I don't think that anyone would make it to his position, especially in that Unit, with major character flaws.

~~Morons~~ People making comments like this one, are what drags this board down and makes it a laughing stock in the community.

EDIT: Forgot about the HK comment.

Vickers helped design the HK416 for his Unit. He did work for HK after retiring, but is no longer on their payrole.

Posted: 2/23/2007 3:30:46 PM EDT

[#16]

Gannet Media.. one of the big News media conglomerates.When I retired.. I let my subscription go.. have not misses it..

Posted: 2/23/2007 4:39:01 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
~~Morons~~ People making comments like this one, are what drags this board down and makes it a laughing stock in the community.

I agree with you about the “dragging down” of the site.

Posted: 2/23/2007 9:13:13 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You should take heed infsqdldr and not offend the mighty vickers, some of the guys here get on their knees and suck his ... you know what.
I'm curious to know what "perks" he gets for telling the world how vastly superior an HK product over others.

Who's sucking his dick? I've never met the guy myself. He does have opinions, just like everyone else, and you don't have to agree with him. You may want to "take heed" on what he says though, as he has more experience in combat arms than 99.99% of the people on this board. He was an Operator and INSTRUCTOR, for the WORLDS best Combat Shooters/CT Unit. Infsqdldr, I don't think that anyone would make it to his position, especially in that Unit, with major character flaws.

~~Morons~~ People making comments like this one, are what drags this board down and makes it a laughing stock in the community.

EDIT: Forgot about the HK comment.

Vickers helped design the HK416 for his Unit. He did work for HK after retiring, but is no longer on their payrole.

i believe he worked on the first version of the hk45 as well. there was a small tight group in delta back in the early days, and i need to get more information before i can explain. my dad got some old books when my grandfather died a few mos ago, a couple were about the early days of delta. ill try to get ahold of them and share the info/pics. no disrespect meant, i just dont trust industry professionals opinions as easily anymore. i think its mainly because of the break in threads. sorry for the misdirection, i want to find out more info on delta using/testing the hk416. i know a distinguished service medal awardee ill try to get some info from.

Posted: 2/23/2007 11:08:42 PM EDT

[#19]

I've heard from an Industry source the HK416s are beating themselves to death.

Posted: 2/24/2007 6:38:35 AM EDT

[#20]

Whether it's the HK 416, Colt M4 or whatever, it's still using that questionable M855 round. What we need is a new gas piston upper for the AR lowers and a 6.8mm SPC round, that should solve a lot of problems. Hey if it cost $1B purchase 1MM new infantry weapons (at $1K each), or even less to swap out an upper, that's only a single B-2 bomber, right? I say, let's go for it.

Posted: 2/24/2007 6:53:59 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Whether it's the HK 416, Colt M4 or whatever, it's still using that questionable M855 round. What we need is a new gas piston upper for the AR lowers and a 6.8mm SPC round, that should solve a lot of problems. Hey if it cost $1B purchase 1MM new infantry weapons (at $1K each), or even less to swap out an upper, that's only a single B-2 bomber, right? I say, let's go for it.

From a logistical standpoint the proposition of changing calibers at this stage of the game would be a nightmare. If you have been in any sort of dealing with the Army supply system you know this. They had a heck of a time trying to standardize a new cold weather cap and gloves...issues are not limited to, but would include:all the .5.56mm ammo in storage, getting FN to rechamber the Minimi platform, getting appropriate spare parts unique to the new caliber out, replacing all those magazines...

Posted: 2/24/2007 10:18:43 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Whether it's the HK 416, Colt M4 or whatever, it's still using that questionable M855 round. What we need is a new gas piston upper for the AR lowers and a 6.8mm SPC round

The Units that are issued the HK416, along with the White SOF, have Mk262 (77gr BH) available. They are not limited to M855.

The 6.8 is not going to happen.

Posted: 2/24/2007 3:17:07 PM EDT

[#23]

It's hilarious how angry people here get when someone dares to criticize the AR. The ARMY TIMES has no horse in this race. They just print what their reporting uncovers. It's not enough proof to the diehards that the most elite choose a piston. It's like trying to convince someone to change thier religion. You guys will argue to the end

Its the soldiers fault for not cleaning enough...blah blah blah. Any one with military experience will know that its hard enough to get a soldier to show up at the right place, at the right time. and in the right uniform. It only makes sense to field a weapon that requires the average joe to spend less time pulling maintenance. I don't care what the weapon is 416 or whatever.

A weapon is a tool. I will use the best tool available to me. I like my M4 just fine. Its the only choice we have. That does not make it the best.

Posted: 2/24/2007 5:16:58 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I've heard from an Industry source the HK416s are beating themselves to death.

May I ask, what's the significance of that? Are you referring to the operating rod acting on the "carrier key?"

Posted: 2/24/2007 5:39:08 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Maybe if soldiers cleaned them. A lot of pogues (yes, I know pogues are different than the 'real' men of the military) I've seen in Iraq had weapons so dirty, it make civilian AR owners cringe and question what we are teaching folks in the military.

Wow. Just wow.

Posted: 2/24/2007 6:22:10 PM EDT

[#26]

The 416 is a step in the right direction. It's just a baby step. The next military weapon should offer a lot more IMHO

Posted: 2/24/2007 8:43:32 PM EDT

[#27]

Hey legion, are you in the military? I would hope that you are but the context of your message makes it sound like your not, just a guy that knows something about the military. Enlighten me about your status.

Your comment angers me to the core. POGs (Personnel Other than Grunts) are not guilty of cleaning their weapons any less than a 11B. It is soldiers that clean or don't clean thier weapons.

Do you think that the enemy stops to ask the guy in a HMMWV if he is an 11B or something else before he blows them into the next life? NO, he dosent. You are disrespecting all the non-11B soldiers out there that have died with your comment. Do you think that all the non-11B soldiers that have died weren't real men or women? Please tell me you are in the military, I can understand a service member saying the stuff you have but not a civilian.

Sorry for ranting in this thread but that was uncalled for. Comments like that from people that just don't know are what really hurts great places like this.

Posted: 2/25/2007 3:37:12 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
It's hilarious how angry people here get when someone dares to criticize the AR. The ARMY TIMES has no horse in this race. They just print what their reporting uncovers.

I place the "reporting" in any of the "X Times" papers at above the level and quality of The National Enquirer but rather below that of The Sacramento Bee, The Detroit Free Press, or The Denver Post. In other words, they may "have no horse in this race," but they certainly don't have the most respected handicapper involved either. Except for the pay scales and the monthly promotion lists, the "X Times" papers are fishwraps at worst and mildly diversionary reading at best.

But with that said, it's also important to keep in mind that the Army, as lead service in ALL small arms research and acquisition, is pretty messed up in this area. They have little unity of management and oversight in weapons development and utterly fail at the "one mission, one boss" concept in this area-something that's not at all new. When the M14 was developed there were enormous differences of opinion about it even after McNamera ordered its adoption; enough differences that high ranking officers openly defied the Secretary and held back on procurement actions. It happened again with the M16. To say that "the official Army position on the HK416 is..." does not have the force it should because the Army is often at war with itself on small arms issues. The "official" Army position is neither the final word nor something carved in stone, and that's bad for Soldiers, bad for the Army, and bad for the United States.

Posted: 2/25/2007 5:14:58 AM EDT

[#29]

I think the HK416 will or would be a much better choice over the M-16 as you dont always have time to strip the M-16 down and clean it and oil it during combat situation.If the HK416 can do the job they say by being buried in sand and water and go several thousand rounds and function properly without cleaning or oiling then it would be a much better weapon for the folks getting issued the rifle!!Just a scenario just got done cleaning the M-16 then have to get in a very dirty situation where you submerge your weapon in sand,water or muddy enviroment and we all know what to expect from the basic M-16

Alot of guys you see since the 60s do what they can to grab and switch over to a AK-47 from Asia to Iraq and only for 1 reason,Reliabilty as the AK is not any more accurate but will function every time they pull the trigger in these conditions!!

Posted: 2/25/2007 6:40:17 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Army Times=Army Enquirer. To much drama and gossip for me.

I was wondering if it was just me.

Posted: 2/25/2007 6:44:19 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Gannet Media.. one of the big News media conglomerates.When I retired.. I let my subscription go.. have not misses it..

Gannett --- that's that Al Neuharth guy (owner and columnist in USAToday) ... ain't he vehemently anti-gun ??

Posted: 2/25/2007 8:40:09 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard from an Industry source the HK416s are beating themselves to death.

May I ask, what's the significance of that? Are you referring to the operating rod acting on the "carrier key?"

Yes

******

That article was typical HK propoganda. Remember how great the XM-8 was?

All the M-4 malfunctions they detailed in that article were due to the colse-toleranced bolt and carrier jamming with sand. The HK 416 has the same parts there, and would have exactly the same problems in a sandy environment.

Posted: 2/25/2007 8:41:07 AM EDT

[#33]

I bet it gets lost in all the red tape of procurement. It will cost the Pentagon big bucks to replace the inventory. same with the 6.8mm ammo. I don't think it will happen for a long time.

The M16A2 came out in what... 1983? When I left in 1987 I never even heard of the thing, and I was in a front line Infantry unit in Germany. USAEUR usually gets all the toys first. 84 to 85 in Ft Hood and we still had the steel pot while USAEUR had the k-pot.

change will come, but not for a while. Unless of course some General wants it now, like the berets...

Posted: 2/25/2007 9:25:19 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
All the M-4 malfunctions they detailed in that article were due to the colse-toleranced bolt and carrier jamming with sand. The HK 416 has the same parts there, and would have exactly the same problems in a sandy environment.

But - But - But - That cant be! I've seen several videos where HK reps lay it in the sand with ejection port closed, cover it up, uncover it and fire without problem!

Posted: 2/25/2007 9:34:04 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

“If we have a change that we think would help the gun, we go to the Army which is not an easy process, by the way. We spent 20 years trying to get [an extractor] spring changed. They just said ‘well, this works good enough.’”

Good read. But I suppose it's all made up because according to ARFCOM there is nothing wrong with the M16.

There IS nothing wrong with the M16 - it does everything it's designed to as well-as if not better than everything else available....

Those of us with significant recent experience (pre 90s doesn't count) pretty much agree on that...

Now, folks who have never picked up a USGI M16 in the past 5-10 years... That's another story...

And the Army Times is owned by USA Today... They're good for pay-charts, new medals, and the latest 'WTF is DC going to screw us with next' gossip... That's about it...

They don't know jackshit about guns... But then again, neither do the folks at 'Guns & Ammo'....

Oh, BTW... The 'Army Times' gun people LOVE HK... They also write what they think their readers want to read... 'M16 works fine, no replacement required' doesn't sell papers as well as 'This could be your next rifle'...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Army Times article about the HK416

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