I'm considering a "tactical" 2-stage trigger for my Bushy Mforgery.
Anyone have experience with the Geissele match trigger sold by Creedmoore Sports?

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16933&cat=285&page=2

My interest in the Geissele is mostly because it supposedly uses hardened steel that resists wear better.

Everybody says RRA's 2-stage trigger is good; but I also hear that it eventually wears down to a 1-stage.  After how many rounds does this start to happen?

Is this trigger wear thing really just a non-issue, or is there something to it?

My particular RRA trigger has yet to wear down to a single-stage. Personally, I think the whole "RRA triggers go single-stage" thing is overrated.

That Geissele is  expensive in comparison


It's got at least one set screw I can see - potential problem area.


I've got a lot of rounds on some of my RRA triggers - no issues

Yeah, it's at least twice as much as RRA.

And that set screw -- just one more thing that can go wrong at the worst time.

What number = "a lot of rounds"?

Are you happy with the RRA?  Does it have a clean 2nd stage break?

if you are willing to pay that much go and get you two chipmccormick trigger packs.


nice, crisp break, snaps like glass and smooth like butter! and it only about half that price and self contained.

i have had mine for at least 4-5k rds now without a single failure, light strike or hangup.



eta: dennysguns in the industry forum will hook you up!

I've had a Bushmaster 2 stage that either was a Compass lake or a copy of one.   That was a very good trigger that did go single stage at one point, but just had to be readjusted.


I've got several RRA's that all run good.  Very good trigger.  Not the "best" 2 stage (get a Jewel) but very good.   No issues.  Probably got at least 5k on one or two of them, I'd guess.   I don't pay much attention to that stuff.

i had a woa tuned rra two stage and it was great for the time i had it.


only reason i got rid of it was to upgrade to the cmc

You can buy a KAC for that price.

I have a trigger testing machine where I run my Hi-Speed triggers to see what breaks.  Last week I finished up another 100,000 round dry fire test.  At the end of 100,000 dryfires the sear surfaces on my trigger were only polished (no discernable wear), the second stage was still there (it did not turn into a single stage) and the 2nd stage release was still as crisp as when I first assembled the trigger.

As for the 'many' parts in my trigger it sure doesn't bother the USAMU who used my trigger as proof of concept for the XM110 SASS, it doesn't bother the USMC Shooting Team who are using my trigger to compete in the National Trophy Matches, the Blackwater Operator who is taking my trigger to the Sandbox next week nor the Quantico Precision Weapons Shop.

All the screws on my trigger have melted on polymer that produces a prevaling torque so the screws do not loosen (actually I get comments on how stiff they are to turn).

I agree with those Gents who are of the opinion that for a combat or SHTF weapon you should only rely on the stock, single stage trigger.  However, I designed total reliabilty into my trigger and it has yet to fail me.  After hundreds of thousands of dry fires and positive testamonials from my customers I have no reservations on recommending my Hi-Speed trigger for critical weapons.

If you want fast lock time, an icicle 2nd stage break, total adjustability and long life my trigger will do the trick.  I agree it is not cheap, but when I started this project in 2003 I wanted to make the very best trigger and I deliberatly put price on the back burner and performance and relibility on the front burners.

If you have any questions fire away.

WmGeissele

Geissele - thanks for coming here and responding.

Sounds like you make a high quality product.

I have a Geissele trigger that I use in my MGI combo.  While my experience is limited to stock triggers, the Jard trigger and the 15 minute job, I am absolutely in love with the Geissele.  What arrived when I ordered it was remarkable.  Serial numbered parts, a selection of wrenches and a slave pin.  I was floored with a few of the additional items and a few things that arrived in the mail after the first package.  I do not want to go into specific detail, as I am not sure if the extra goodies are standard, but if you are contemplating a quality trigger, I would heartily suggest that you contact Bill.

The trigger is built like a tank.  It was extremely easy to set up (I had earmarked several hours after my JARD installation, but it took all of 15 minutes), and I have no fears regarding the adjustments.  The nylon inserts and loctite should serve me well.  While I have no quantitative way to measure lock speed and actual hammer force, I will relate this.  When I do trigger work on my AR's, I spend a lot of time dry firing them once installed.  My normal method is to use my thumb to catch the hammer on the lower (sans upper) while dry firing.  I can do hundreds of these drills with my stock trigger or the Jard unit.  With the Geissele, after about 50 cycles, my thumb was bruised and sore.  A more quantitative way to prove the hammer force and lock time (speed) is the fact that his trigger works 100% with both my Ciener and M-261 kit, with no modifications to the units.  It is fast and powerful, with a 1st and second stage that are beyond belief.

I cannot comment on long term use, or suitability for a SHTF weapon, but I can attest to the fact that it is a trigger of extremely high quality, and my experiences with Mr. Geissele confirm that his customer service is beyond reproach.  A very class trigger, and class gentleman, worth every penny.

Craig

Can it be set up to handle FA like the KAC 2-Stage?

Simon

Very pleased you were able to weigh-in on this topic, Mr. Geissele.  It's very helpful to hear more details about your trigger.  Very impressive.  Most likely a far better trigger than I am a shooter!

This trigger would be going in my personal LEO patrol carbine.  It's gotta be 100% reliable every day in all conditions, but I also would like the assistance of a clean-breaking trigger should the evenuality arise that I need to make a long, accurately-placed shot (Gotta account for every round we fire!).

Thanks again for your input.

I work as a commissioned reserve, and we are responsible for buying all our equipment -- sidearm, shotgun, body armor, uniform, etc.  As long as the modifications are made by an agency armorer or by an approved local gunsmith, bosses approve it.  We've got guys that carry tricked-out 1911s as their sidearms as well as those who carry stock Glocks.  We have a list of agency-approved guns from which we can choose.  But beyond that, there are a few restrictions (like no hair triggers) but I've not had any of my modifications rejected.  (Yeah, we're pretty fortunate in this regard.)  As long as we demonstrate mastery of our weapon system during requals, the rangemaster doesn't have a problem.

It's been my experience that our lowest scoring shooters shoot "stock" weapons while the highest scoring shooters will often have some weapon modifications.  Not that modifications necessarily make a better shooter, but it's an indication that they are more "into" shooting, weapons, etc.  They keep their weapons well-tuned, shoot quality ammo and practice more.

Quoted: Quoted:This trigger would be going in my personal LEO patrol carbine.  It's gotta be 100% reliable every day in all conditions, but I also would like the assistance of a clean-breaking trigger should the evenuality arise that I need to make a long, accurately-placed shot (Gotta account for every round we fire!). I'm amazed, you're allowed to install a different trigger in your weapon.  In my neck of the woods, cops cant even swap pistol grips on their patrol carbines.

Some of our guys have a few ARs issued to them and about twenty have USGI M-14s issued as well. If you have an issued AR you can't change a thing. And it's a big No-No for the M-14 too (these really belong to the Govt.). We are allowed to buy our own rifles and can pretty much trick them out anyway we want BUT everything has to be a factory part and installed by a qualified smith or one of our armorers. All parts and mods MUST be approved by the armorer ( who firearms instructors) and is logged with the serial number to your rifle. It's not that big of deal with our department. Most of the "bosses" are gun guys so the attitude is friendly for the deputy.

Yeah, that's pretty much the policy where I work.
Issued weapons are a completely different story.  

Simon,

We are not licensed (yet) to do any select fire design or manufacture.  When the request comes in from Uncle Sam we will approach this.

Send an email to Heidi our Sales Manager with your contact info and she will start drawing up a list for whenever a select fire version is available.  [email protected]

thanks
WmGeissele

ARrrg,

We have something that might be of interest.  It's our 'LEO' trigger.  They are special order only.  I set them up for a 5.5 minimum weight pull so they meet the minimum weight requirement of the Mil-Spec for the M16.

Even though its not a 'light' trigger it feels about half the actual weight due to my sear geometry.  The first stage is about 4.5 lb and the 2nd stage 1lb.

WmGeissele

Sounds interesting.  How can get more information?

Quoted: Quoted: Sounds interesting.  How can get more information? theres a bunch of good info here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=258904

Yeah, too bad a few keyboard commandoes took a shit in your thread.

.

Thanks, Bigbore.  I'll check it out!

tag

Great thread and great input.
I'm now going to give the G a try. I had problems with the RR until WOA tuned it.