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Posted: 7/1/2004 10:09:51 AM EDT
[#1]
tagged
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Posted: 7/1/2004 11:02:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Guessing that shipping has something to do with Complete rifles requiring different shipping methods, hence different prices. But still kinda retarded.
I loved my Fulton M4 .22lr upper but a .22lr AR REALLY needs Hicaps. No muzzle climb and 10 rounds go really fast. At the time Ciener Type Hicaps were running 120$ a pop. So I sold it.....Udog |
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Posted: 7/1/2004 12:23:36 PM EDT
[#3]
As soon as you get it, we will want to know IMMEDIATELY if those $24 magazines are the same as or will work in DPMS (which list at about $40). If you post pics of the left and right side of it, we should be able to tell. Thanks!
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Posted: 7/1/2004 2:49:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Send me a DPMS mag and I will Bushmaster sez... "They are currently in production, we anticipate that we should have them completed by the end of the week and shipping respectively. " Coming soon, but not in time for this weekend, darnit. Oh well. Yes, if the AWB goes, then they damn well better make 20's or 30's. |
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Posted: 7/1/2004 4:01:04 PM EDT
[#5]
when i emailed b.m. they said they don't know if their mags will work with other manufactures uppers. they will also think about making high cap mags if the ban goes away
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Posted: 7/3/2004 7:49:01 AM EDT
[#6]
I plan on getting one of these BM .22 uppers if
1. It will work with an M16 lower 2. Crime bill sunsets and they make 30 rounders |
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Posted: 7/5/2004 8:15:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Please let us know when you get it.
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Posted: 7/6/2004 3:26:17 PM EDT
[#8]
I got billed, which generally means it's shipping. 3 days or less and I'll go shoot it this weekend.
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Posted: 7/6/2004 10:56:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Snake, I don't know where you are looking at prices for DPMS mags, but midwayusa and brownelss both have them for about $24 each, less if you have an FFL discount! Dawg |
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Posted: 7/6/2004 11:45:51 PM EDT
[#10]
I have a few "busted" DPMS mags I could send you if you wanted to see if they fit, one of them will still fuction. Miss fire = bye bye mag just so you guys know. CCI mini mags have not been real nice to me.
ym |
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Posted: 7/11/2004 12:59:31 AM EDT
[#11]
CC got charged, so I called friday to see if it had shipped and the nice lady couldn't tell me. since it's coming from AZ (said in first email) then it should take 1 day from shipping date to get here. And there is something goofy with the spare magazines. If they charge me $8 s/h and ship it seperately I think I'll have to cancel it. sigh.
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Posted: 7/14/2004 2:28:16 PM EDT
[#12]
tagged
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Posted: 7/16/2004 12:42:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Buffer springs were not correctly supplied or something. So they were shipping starting today, i was told. Should see it monday to tuesday, depending when it leaves AZ.
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Posted: 7/16/2004 12:57:00 PM EDT
[#14]
I'll be thinking of you this weekend as I'm actually shooting my DPMS .22 M4!
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Posted: 7/18/2004 1:17:04 AM EDT
[#15]
Got the spare mag.
I dunno if you'll be able to tell if it would work with a dpms or not from these, but I can take some more if you need. (yes, will have a side-by-side comparison pic soon). General overview. It's a plastic housing, with four screws on the left hand side. There's a metal housing fitted in the middle, positioned in the front 1/3 of the mag. about the size of 20 round mag. No flashing from molding. very very light. It's a tight fit in one lower and snug in another. They don't drop free. i suppose you could file out one of the mag wells if you were so inclined. (Speculation) A cav arms lower and one of these things would be incredibly light and be a cool 22 rifle. (end speculation) Top view in lower:  Right side  (the rest are links to save you bandwidth. Yes, you should probably click on a few of them, particularly the internal/open ones) www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushyc22mag-ltside2.jpg And being the inqusitive type I am, I opened it up of course. www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushyc22mag-open2.jpg www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushyc22mag-internals.jpg www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushyc22mag-internals2.jpg I've drawn a couple of conclusions about the potential of these. Now I just want the darn upper!!! |
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Posted: 7/18/2004 2:31:01 AM EDT
[#16]
I don't believe that magazine would even go in a DPMS upper, much less work in it. In the DPMS, the "guts" are toward the rear because the barrel is set well back into the ejection port area.
M261 mags might work in your C22, or vice versa. It'll be interesting to see. Thanks for taking the time to take and post the pics. Can't wait to see if your C22 will outshoot my DPMS M4--see my thread thread in this forum on "shooting report." |
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Posted: 7/18/2004 4:48:05 AM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for the pics! I am really interested in this one. You last link has an extra "N" in the word internal. Here is a corrected one. www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushyc22mag-internals2.jpg Thanks again, Bob
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Posted: 7/18/2004 6:14:32 AM EDT
[#18]
I would rather take a little off of the mag. Or just shove it in a few times, that should wear down the mag to fit better.
ProfessorEvil. Thanks for the photos. I'm glad you took your mag apart. Now I don't have to, Heh Heh. You have my luck. You got the mag and nothing to use it with. I only ordered the upper with the one supplied mag. I'll wait to see if they offer hi-cap mags in September. Until then, I'll load 10 at a time. 10 at a time should drive me nuts. 
I'm with ya. I have to wait till the second batch gets shipped.  |
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Posted: 7/18/2004 7:45:43 AM EDT
[#19]
With all that extra space in the mag and the ability to take them apart like that, it should be fairly easy to convert the mag to a higher capacity if/when the AWB sunsets. Bushy could put out an upgrade "kit".
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Posted: 7/18/2004 9:11:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Well since I don't have a bandwidth issue I copied the bushy mag pics and took pics of a blow DPMS mag I had so you guys could see the difference. You can either go here to see it on my site or you can just look below. This way we can see them both side by side. As you can see there's no room
on the DPMS mag to make it bigger. DPMS also told me that the pin in the mag that makes it impossiable to the take cover off was to abid to the AWB. I found it very interesting that bushy didn't have to do this. I also should add that a miss fire from a CCI mini mag was what blew this mag and two other apart. DPMS mags are around 30 bucks and I have lost 3 of them due to miss fires and is the reason I'm begging for the larger ones to be metal. There's no joy in having a mag blow up in your hand. ym youngmoore.com/dpms%20bush.html DPMS Mag      Bushy Mag     
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Posted: 7/18/2004 10:40:33 AM EDT
[#21]
That sucks. I planed on using Mini-Mags in mine. I don't want my one and only mag to self destruct. Thanks for the photos. |
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Posted: 7/18/2004 7:03:47 PM EDT
[#22]
I'll bet I know what happened, because something similar happened to me. CCI MMs are both copper washed AND lube-coated. Some lots work fine. Other lots have too much lube on them and exhibit difficulty chambering. I know--got a box of the latter myself lately and it was all I could do to shove them into bolt actions. I am GLAD I didn't try to put them thru my DPMS. I DID however also grab a box of Federal Bulks that had trouble chambering. I had one box like this before, they just would NOT chamber in a Norinco JW-14 that had run fine on them before. Both the Norinco and the DPMS evidently have tight chambers. Here's the bad part: The DPMS will fire out of battery. I had a Federal case rupture from this. Most of the blast came out the ejection port side. Didn't wreck the magazine, but evidently knocked a chip of plastic off one side (doesn't affect functioning), and blew the right extractor out of the gun. This is why we wear safety glasses when we shoot. DPMS graciously replaced the extractor and spring and I've had NO further troubles or malfunctions with it since. The moral of the story is: Every time you open a new box of ammo, pay particular attention to how the first half-dozen or so rounds chamber. LOOK after every shot and make sure the bolt is CLOSED. Learn how the gun sounds and "feels" when it's running right and CHECK if it does anything different. Now I mainly run Winchester Dynapoints in mine, or Federal Bulks when they PROVE to me that they're not the odd box of oversized ones. The gun also works pretty well with Winchester Walmart XPert bulks. |
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Posted: 7/18/2004 9:13:11 PM EDT
[#23]
sounds close to right. Can't say I have had a chambering issue but an extraction issue yup had my share of those. After I took a closer look at how it happend I fixed it since DPMS didn't have an anwser for me. The Right extractor leg/hook wasn't going down the barrel ramp far enough to grab the spint round out. I used a dermal tool to take down the ramp. Haven't had a problem since.
ym |
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Posted: 7/18/2004 9:42:12 PM EDT
[#24]
tag
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Posted: 7/19/2004 4:09:06 AM EDT
[#25]
I had a DPMS mag blow up in my face using CCI Stingers. Scared the living shit out of me.
 Switched to Wichester Dynapoints and have been good to go....-John |
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Posted: 7/19/2004 4:35:35 AM EDT
[#26]
i use federal american eagle and win wildcats with no problem.
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Posted: 7/21/2004 5:49:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Look what ups dropped off.
Impressions: Damn this thing is light. pencil barrel, cf upper receiver. Rail is aluminum. Will be hoot to shoot. Pics:     |
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Posted: 7/21/2004 6:04:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Not sure I like the idea of a plastic upper, but if it works, what the hell.
At least you get full sights with it, which you do NOT with either the DPMS M4 or the CZ--nothing else to buy, anyway, before you can shoot it. And you get a manual of some kind, something that didn't come with my DPMS, and which I've asked for twice and still don't have. I don't think it exists. How soon can you let us know how it shoots?  
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Posted: 7/21/2004 6:14:18 PM EDT
[#29]
www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushy22-bolt-bottom.jpg
www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushy22-bolt-left.jpg www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushy22-bolt-top.jpg www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushy22-bolt-right.jpg www.aforkinthetoad.com/pics/2004/July/bushy22-bolt-face.jpg Cleancut, it defaults to a2 length tube:  This is a bit more visible, it's in backwards for that pic. The part sticking out is how much extends with the tube fully inserted. If it's inserted the right way, the end ridge is just enclosed by the buffer tube of the collapsible stock. I'll aska bout carbine length ones, if they are available I may buy one, otherwise, i'll crank up the lathe and fix this one. |
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Posted: 7/21/2004 6:17:16 PM EDT
[#30]
I forgot about the DPMS manual they said they would have one out in jan of this year but nothing yet. |
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Posted: 7/21/2004 6:18:38 PM EDT
[#31]
ProfessorEvil
I hate you.   Colt_SBR |
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Posted: 7/21/2004 6:30:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Thank you! A2 - standard rifle length tube? |
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Posted: 7/21/2004 10:53:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Yes. If you look at it you can see there are two ridges on it. One near the rear end with the spring guide, and the other at the bolt end which is about 2.5" back. That can be chopped off and viola a carbine length buffer tube.
Hopefully this weekend. else next weekend. |
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Posted: 7/21/2004 11:05:01 PM EDT
[#34]
DPMS uses the same mags as the Ciener kit. Except that JAC mags are metal. Determined from comparing my AK 22cal kit to my DPMS 22cal upper. I got the DPMS upper because I wanted a DCM config, to work as a 'training aid' for my .223 A2... |
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Posted: 7/22/2004 2:24:55 AM EDT
[#35]
tagged
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Posted: 7/22/2004 4:04:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Yesterday must have been both of our's lucky day. I received my complete rifle as well.
Bushmaster C1522LR |
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Posted: 7/22/2004 5:44:47 AM EDT
[#37]
We need range reports.
Colt_SBR |
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Posted: 7/23/2004 3:56:32 AM EDT
[#38]
tagged
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Posted: 7/24/2004 8:04:15 PM EDT
[#39]
well I got to go out and shoot it today....barely.
***RANT-O-RAMA*** To assemble or take down this thing you have to REMOVE THE BUTTSTOCK. Rant off. After finagling this thing together, I got to shoot it. And it's a hoot. no recoil, super light. was about 6 clicks off of center at 50 yards. no jams in the first 100 or so rounds we shot, and it was pretty cool. Everyone who shot it liked it. If I tried I could do a 2" or so group from the bench and I'm a so-so shot. With my Marlin 795 I can do 1.5" or so at 50 yards from the bench. so it's not terribly off, and until it is more broken in and someone who can shoot well shoots it i won't say too much about accuracy other than it's more than acceptable. I mounted my tasco Propoint 5 on it, didn't get a chance to zero that, but it will be a great newbie gun--looks badass, and it'sa hoot to shoot. I'll see if the other folks who fiddled have anything else to say. pics when i get back home (sunday night) and a short video. |
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Posted: 7/24/2004 8:27:24 PM EDT
[#40]
WTF?? Can you provide more detail?
Bob
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Posted: 7/24/2004 9:04:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Do you mean, you have to take the butt stock or buffer tube off ???? Colt_SBR |
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Posted: 7/24/2004 11:20:12 PM EDT
[#42]
The buttstock has to come off to get the buffer spring out. The upper is supposed to be attached, then the buttstock gets the buffer and spring put in it, and the buttstock assembly is then attached to the lower. Yeah. F'd up. I was incorrect on the orientation of the buffer. The end with the metal nub aims towards the bolt. The nub is a detent for the spring to ride on. |
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Posted: 7/25/2004 1:26:46 AM EDT
[#43]
I've been able to remove my upper by opening the rear takedown & front pivot pin, lifting up slightly on the upper receiver and pulling it forward.
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Posted: 7/25/2004 1:46:41 AM EDT
[#44]
So your saying that if you have a feeding issue or a FTF round or something you have to take the buttstock off to get this thing apart just to get the round out?
ym
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Posted: 7/25/2004 4:26:53 AM EDT
[#45]
Not according to GI_Brat. I am still thinking of getting one. Bob
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Posted: 7/25/2004 10:00:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Thanks for letting me play with your new toy.
As PE mentioned, the instruction manual mentions removal of the lower receiver extension (AKA Buffer Tube). This is to allow the installation of the operating spring and buffer tube space filler with op spring guide. Since we were at the range and tools for properly disassembling a lower were not handy, it was necessary to do some creative problem solving. With the bolt in the upper and the buffer tube space filler in place. We took the op spring and put it over the spring guide. Compressed carefully to avoid kinking until it was inside the buffer tube. We then held it in place with a shim, made out of a plastic coke bottle, that covered the mouth of the buffer tube. Close the receivers together leaving enough space to pull the shim out. With the shim out, the spring expanded into the hole in the back of the bolt. It's definitely not a design that makes field stripping an easy job. The bolt catch can be manually activated to hold the bolt to the rear, but because of the placement of the mag tube and follower, the bolt won't lock back when the mag's empty. The design mounts the ejector on the interior of the upper, opposite the ejection port. This rules it out as a drop in conversion for a .223 Rem rifle. Aside from the installation, shooting a 22 LR AR-15 was fun. No recoil (at least to worry about). Out of the box, iron sights were only off 3" right and about a .75" high at 50 yds. Too bad high capacity mags won't be available until after the AWB sunsets. |
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Posted: 7/25/2004 10:50:28 AM EDT
[#47]
nice to hear it's a good shooter. the coversion thing won't be an issue for me as i have a dedicated lower for it when it arrives.
PE, how long did you have to wait from order to delivery? mike |
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Posted: 7/25/2004 12:35:35 PM EDT
[#48]
No. You can remove stuck rounds without removing the upper. I'll have to try the push pins removal. The assembly was a five-handed operation at the time. Could probably be done with two people. |
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Posted: 7/25/2004 12:38:41 PM EDT
[#49]
No. You can remove stuck rounds without removing the upper. I'll have to try the push pins removal. The assembly was a five-handed operation at the time. Could probably be done with two people. |
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Posted: 7/25/2004 1:27:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Wow, 2" accuracy at 50 yards sounds dismal. My recent testing with 17 different .22 rifles and five brands of CHEAP ammo taught me that damn near any .22 rifle ought to be able to keep at least a couple of brands of ammo inside an inch at 50--or at least an inch and a quarter. Last week I got the 50 yard zero settled on my DPMS. With iron sights (and I can't see shit anymore, I had to aim at a 6" square black bull) it put 10 rounds into 1.5", with seven of those in 1.1". With a cheap 4x scope it would keep everything in an inch with a best (so far) group of .664", and this is with Winchester Dynapoints, not match ammo. (Today I put a cheap Walmart BSA red dot sight on the thing and just had an absolute blast with it, but that's another story.)
Maybe you just happened to hit on the ammo the thing likes least--every .22 has one, it seems, and most of mine didn't care accuracy-wise for Federal Walmart Bulk (though it was VERY reliable stuff). Hope that's the case, or maybe you can't see any better with iron sights than I can. Stick a cheap scope on it and see what it'll do. Try Winchester Dynapoints or CCI MiniMags--I found those two brands of cheap ammo pretty accurate in most rifles.I'd think that scoped and properly rested, you ought to be getting groups of somewhere around an inch with your unit. If it really won't shoot better than 2" at 50, I'd send it back to Bushmaster for replacement. Really! A Charter AR-7 will shoot better than that, as will every 10/22 ever made, and I even found a couple brands of ammo that would do at least that well in a M261 in a 16" 1:9 barrel--and THAT combination ended up at the absolute bottom of my accuracy list. No kidding, if it won't shoot better than that, Bushy ought to fix it. PE, I'm not trying to pee in your Wheaties here, just telling you what you should EXPECT for your hard-earned money. Oh, BTW, thanks for the pics and the shooting report--a bunch of us have been waiting to see/hear what this thing would do!
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