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Posted: 1/22/2004 7:00:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Interesting. I read an article some months back on the internet about polymer cased ammo. I didn't think it was so close to frutition though. What does it cost? Got a web address? Let us know how it shoots.
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Posted: 1/22/2004 7:15:41 PM EDT
[#2]
I paid 4 bucks a box of 20 at my dealer today. His store is called Ammo Depot in Caddo Mills Tx. I looked and looked for a website, or some kind of info on this stuff. I turned up nothing. Its pretty cool looking though. The pic on the bos shows 5 different case colors for the .223 round. Blue, White, Green, Yellow, and Dark Gray. The very bottom 3/8" of the case is brass so there wont be any extracting problems. Below is the exact print on the box:
PCA-SPECTRUM The worlds first Polymer-cased High Pressure Ammunition. Polymer-cased ammunotion (PCA) provides the shooter with Accurate, Consistent Performance. NATEC produces its PCA in the United States to meet ANSI/SAAMI Performance specifications. Our state-of-the-Art manufacturing facility produces Superior Cartridge cases from a polymer produced Exclusively for NATECs PCA I really want to get some pics of this stuff, but my cam is broke... Damnit. |
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Posted: 1/23/2004 8:25:45 AM EDT
[#3]
A local dealer just got in a BUNCH.
He's getting $199 per thousand. It's VERY lightweight. I'd like to hear more about it before I run out and buy a bunch of it... |
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Posted: 1/23/2004 8:59:12 AM EDT
[#4]
Is it reloadable? [ROFL2]
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Posted: 1/23/2004 9:07:02 AM EDT
[#5]
We needs pics!!!
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Posted: 1/23/2004 9:52:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Surely there ought to be a website for the company that manufactures it, I did a Google search and got zip! [:\]
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Posted: 1/23/2004 10:38:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Do the different colors correspond to different loadings?
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Posted: 1/23/2004 11:17:40 AM EDT
[#8]
I just got off the phone with my dealer. He said they are some fancy Navy SEALS ammo... I dont know how far I believe that, but he also told me that 3 rds of the polymer ammo is equivalent to the weight of one round of standard ammo. He also told me that the distributor would only sell him 1000rds at a time, and he is down to 800rds as we speak. They are NOT relodable, and I asked about the different color cases. He said he really didnt know what the deal was with the different color cases. I will be sending a box to brouhaha for evaluation and pictures.
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Posted: 1/23/2004 11:58:38 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: ...he also told me that 3 rds of the polymer ammo is equivalent to the weight of one round of standard ammo... Wow, that's a very considerable weight savings, and would offer quite a benefit for bugout loads. Can you tell if the bullet has a cannelure? Please keep us updated. |
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Posted: 1/23/2004 1:15:52 PM EDT
[#10]
I found a little info on the web about this ammo. Here are a few links that have some good info.
gunut, can you check these links out and verify that this is the same type of ammo that you have, or at least something close? http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2002infantry/husseini.pdf This is an adobe file about the ammo itself. Pretty good reading. http://albany.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2003/04/28/daily41.html This link is to a paper article about the company that makes the ammo, Natek Inc is in Plattsburg, NY. http://www.dccgrowth.com/natec.htm I did the search in Google by using "polymer cased ammunition" with the qoutes. Sounds like the future is here!!!!! |
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Posted: 1/23/2004 1:21:23 PM EDT
[#11]
XGUNBUNNY, yes that is the same ammunition.
When I get home, I will pull a bullet and see if it has a cannalure. |
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Posted: 1/23/2004 1:33:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I found a little info on the web about this ammo. Here are a few links that have some good info. gunut, can you check these links out and verify that this is the same type of ammo that you have, or at least something close? [url]http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2002infantry/husseini.pdf[/url] This is an adobe file about the ammo itself. Pretty good reading. [url]http://albany.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2003/04/28/daily41.html[/url] This link is to a paper article about the company that makes the ammo, Natek Inc is in Plattsburg, NY. [url]http://www.dccgrowth.com/natec.htm[/url] I did the search in Google by using "polymer cased ammunition" with the qoutes. Sounds like the future is here!!!!! |
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Posted: 1/23/2004 1:39:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I just got off the phone with my dealer. He said they are some fancy Navy SEALS ammo... Well, of course! |
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Posted: 1/23/2004 1:43:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: A local dealer just got in a BUNCH. He's getting $199 per thousand. .... One of the big reasons for making polymere cases is to make the ammo cheaper. For that price I can buy a case of Q3131A and have a few bucks left over. And Q3131A will be loaded to M193 spec - and the brass is reloadable or at least you can sell it to the recyclers. I would buy a box or two to try out. But I won't buy it buy the case untill they get the price WAY down. |
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Posted: 1/23/2004 7:14:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: I just got off the phone with my dealer. He said they are some fancy Navy SEALS ammo... [ROFL2] |
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Posted: 1/23/2004 9:55:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Ok, update time. I just bumped 30 rds through my converted siaga. Bad things happened. 3 rds seperated at the brass case, the polymer case melted, and it gummed up the works.. I gave away the 100 rds left, save 20 for brouhaha.
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Posted: 1/24/2004 3:25:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Good pics here.
[url]http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=d131c857773b113143eb3521e75ddce2&threadid=160375[/url] Not too sure I would shoot it myself. |
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Posted: 1/24/2004 4:06:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Very interesting! I understand the economic advantages, and the advantage of reduced weight.
I understand how a polymer case would transfer less heat to the chamber, and why this would be a good thing. I do not understand how a polymer case produces less muzzle flash. Perhaps it is because it reaches its peak pressure sooner? That is the only thing I can come up with. It looks like they have to load it to higher pressure, judging from one of the charts, to obtain standard velocity. If the polymer case is thicker, this would make sense. Civilian market might appreciate 5.56, but I would think the military would prefer the concept for .50 BMG and perhaps larger cartridges. I vaguely remember a company trying to market polymer .38 specials back in the '80s. Of course, polymer shotgun shells have been with us for decades now. They never really mastered the all polymer shotgun shell however. I remember one effort was named "Wanda", there was another approach, but I have lost too many brain cells to remember the name of that one. |
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Posted: 1/24/2004 9:58:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Does anyone have a link to where I can get this stuff?
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Posted: 1/29/2004 9:26:13 PM EDT
[#20]
At one of the links they said that DuPont owns the patent for the material and the manufacturing proscess. Don't they own Remington? Or am I totally smoking crack? If they do, could we be seeing this stuff in Green boxes?
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Posted: 1/30/2004 7:55:35 AM EDT
[#21]
UPDATE... I ran about a hundred rounds through my AR. It ran excellent. I sure wish I could chrono it though. It still malfunctions in my ak though.. It seperates every time. Pretty nice fireball.
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Posted: 1/30/2004 11:59:55 AM EDT
[#22]
Also, please note that the stuff reviewed by the Army does NOT appear to be the same as the ammunition pictured on the gunsnet page.
The Army's pdf slideshow shows "AMTECH", while this stuff is made by "NATEC". Based on the Army's report, there IS ammo which has made it into field trials with USSOCOM, but it does not appear that the stuff shown here is it. |
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Posted: 1/30/2004 1:01:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: At one of the links they said that DuPont owns the patent for the material and the manufacturing proscess. Don't they own Remington? Or am I totally smoking crack? If they do, could we be seeing this stuff in Green boxes? I think the link you are looking for is with Dupont/Olin if I remember correct and the familiar tie of Winchester with Olin. |
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Posted: 1/30/2004 1:37:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Gunut has a box enroute to me. If I receive the box tomorrow, I will try to test it out on Sunday (assuming it isn't raining).
At the very least, I'll post pics when I get the ammo. |
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Posted: 1/30/2004 8:39:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Also, please note that the stuff reviewed by the Army does NOT appear to be the same as the ammunition pictured on the gunsnet page. The Army's pdf slideshow shows "AMTECH", while this stuff is made by "NATEC". Based on the Army's report, there IS ammo which has made it into field trials with USSOCOM, but it does not appear that the stuff shown here is it. NATEC used to be known as AMTECH. They changed their name sometime in the last year or so. |
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Posted: 1/31/2004 8:07:45 AM EDT
[#26]
I just bought a hundred rounds of it. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=22304[/img] 53 rounds to the pound vs 40 for brass cased 55gr ball. |
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Posted: 2/1/2004 12:16:18 PM EDT
[#27]
I just shot 60 rounds of it in sub zero weather in two different rifles. Worked fine for me. BTW, I can get it for $169 a case here. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=22347[/img] Going to get more and do some FA testing. |
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Posted: 2/2/2004 6:52:49 PM EDT
[#28]
OK, I just got the package that Gunut sent today.
First off, here's some pics: [img]www.btammolabs.com/images/polymer1.jpg[/img] [img]www.btammolabs.com/images/polymer2.jpg[/img] This stuff is definitely LIGHTWEIGHT. On my scale, xm193 weighs in at 11.62g. This polymer cased stuff weighs in at 8.82. That's definitely a big difference (24% less weight). If the weather holds out this weekend, I will hit the range and see how my 20 rounds perform (chrono, accuracy, melt?). I'm glad to see that others have used it and report success. It would be nice to see some with 5.56 pressures, but that may not be possible. |
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Posted: 2/2/2004 7:03:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Sure is purdy. [:E]
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Posted: 2/3/2004 10:10:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Are you going to run a bunch of mags through fast and then put a round of this plastic ammo in the hot chamber?
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Posted: 2/3/2004 4:42:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Any willing guinea pigs, er I mean reloaders, want to try reloading a few of the cases?
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Posted: 2/3/2004 5:19:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Are you going to run a bunch of mags through fast and then put a round of this plastic ammo in the hot chamber? He only has 20 rounds so I doubt it. Bob |
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Posted: 2/3/2004 5:20:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Any willing guinea pigs, er I mean reloaders, want to try reloading a few of the cases? If anyone wants to send me their empties, I will explore the feasability of reloading them. Bob |
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Posted: 2/4/2004 5:45:50 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Are you going to run a bunch of mags through fast and then put a round of this plastic ammo in the hot chamber? He only has 20 rounds so I doubt it. Bob Yes, but the heating mags would not have to be plastic. The heating could be done with any other ammo. |
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Posted: 2/4/2004 6:20:35 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: If anyone wants to send me their empties, I will explore the feasability of reloading them. Bob I just ran one thru my 650 dillon. I think they will reload just fine. The case itself seems to have returned to it's original size without resizing. The neck took a new bullet without collapsing and it seems to have plenty of neck tension. The problem is the reduced case capacity. My load of WC846 for 55 gr ball just about overflowed the case. Developing a load for it will take some work. Oh, BTW, I have a thousand rounds of this coming on the 14th. $160 plus tax picked up at a local show. So, some full auto testing will follow if Campy will oblige me ;) |
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Posted: 2/4/2004 6:22:24 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you going to run a bunch of mags through fast and then put a round of this plastic ammo in the hot chamber? He only has 20 rounds so I doubt it. Bob Yes, but the heating mags would not have to be plastic. The heating could be done with any other ammo. True that! Bob |
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Posted: 2/4/2004 8:40:52 AM EDT
[#37]
I just pulled down a live round. 22.5 gr of unidentified powder. That would fit in with the reduced case capacity. 55 gr FMJBT bullet. |
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Posted: 2/5/2004 5:45:13 AM EDT
[#38]
Has anyone actually tested for accuracy or velocities yet?
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Posted: 2/5/2004 10:08:53 AM EDT
[#39]
I just recieved the latest issue of "Shooting Sports Retailer". Natec has an ad for the PCA ammo. They also mention 308 in June.
How do I post a pic? Cheers, Chris |
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Posted: 2/5/2004 4:15:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Does anyone remember the composite .38 ammo from years ago. Plated bullet with the thick nylon case, the bullets had a little shank on the back and you could reload them without dies - just a punch and something to seat the primers with?
I think I have a few in my odd cartridge box but I forget the name right now. Best regards, Jim H. |
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Posted: 2/5/2004 8:39:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Does anyone remember the composite .38 ammo from years ago. Plated bullet with the thick nylon case, the bullets had a little shank on the back and you could reload them without dies - just a punch and something to seat the primers with? I think I have a few in my odd cartridge box but I forget the name right now. Those were made by USAC. They were on the market during the early/mid '80s. Amtech (now Natec) also marketed some poly-case .38 Special loads during the early '90s. However, the Amtec loads used conventional .357-358" projectiles, instead of the proprietary heel-seated slugs of the USAC ammo. |
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Posted: 2/8/2004 9:55:17 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Has anyone actually tested for accuracy or velocities yet? I just shot this with it today. 125 yrds with a 24" 1-9" tactical rig. About 10* no wind. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=422&iGalleryUnq=954&iImageUnq=22648[/img] |
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Posted: 2/8/2004 10:08:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Waldo, chambered any without firing them to see what kind of bullet set-back it gets?
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Posted: 2/8/2004 10:16:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Interesting....
Of coarse they will say it's not reloadable.... CYA stuff I would assume.. The question is, if you do reload it, how many times before it goes "Kapow"..... |
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Posted: 2/8/2004 4:59:59 PM EDT
[#45]
I can't find anyone around here who sells the stuff. Bummer.
Bob |
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Posted: 2/9/2004 10:46:07 AM EDT
[#46]
Anyone have a lead on how to get this stuff? I would like a couple of boxes just to check it out. Looks interesting. -Spaceman |
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Posted: 2/9/2004 4:08:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Waldo,
For those of us on the frontier, could ya ask your dealer which distributor he's getting the ammo from? I pounded the flyers for the last 2 months and have come up with nothing! Would like to offer this stuff to the guys locally through my shop if possible. Thanks! S-28 |
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Posted: 2/9/2004 5:49:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Quoted: At one of the links they said that DuPont owns the patent for the material and the manufacturing proscess. Don't they own Remington? Or am I totally smoking crack? If they do, could we be seeing this stuff in Green boxes? I think the link you are looking for is with Dupont/Olin if I remember correct and the familiar tie of Winchester with Olin. DuPont used to own Remington but sold it in 1993. Olin still owns the Winchester trademark and makes Winchester ammo. |
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Posted: 2/14/2004 4:38:26 PM EDT
[#49]
I wonder what would haapen if you fired these out of a fluted chamber(HK53)?
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Posted: 2/14/2004 5:31:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Printed on the back of the box:
"Do not fire this ammunition in fluted chambers" |
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