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Posted: 6/10/2008 7:04:50 PM EDT
[#1]
I recently had a few popped primers with the stuff too. I thought it might have been from the commercial Win i had been shooting, but was kind of surprised when I found a primerless LC case while sorting later. Also (even though I hear they are exactly the same) I've never had the problems with the brown box XM193, just the new black box tacticool stuff.
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Posted: 6/10/2008 8:34:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Lot number?
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Posted: 6/11/2008 5:09:46 AM EDT
[#3]
I had a popped primer with the black box the other day, after I had ordered 500 rounds for trial. It tied my carbine up good after I caused a double-feed trying to clear it. I never had any popped primers with the brown box.
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Posted: 6/11/2008 5:13:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Same here...Bud brought over 500rds of black box to do drills. Jammed up both rifles with popped primers. Didnt have access to Lot # as it was in Bando's
We finished the session with Wolf.  Beware Glad I have Brown Box for SHTF |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 6:01:25 AM EDT
[#5]
this was all brown box on stripper clips.
we have over 50,000 rounds of it.... |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 7:58:16 AM EDT
[#6]
I have seen this ammo pop primers but strangely, it only did it in guns with tight chambers. The shooter next to me on the line had a Bushmaster and it was popping primers every few rounds...I took half a mag from him after he ejected it to clear and ran it through my Colt no problem. Later, he had his chamber reamed slightly with a tool from Michiguns.com and it ran the ammo fine.
Wonder if somebody has a tight chamber...not 5.56 spec? |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 8:01:36 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 6/11/2008 12:08:24 PM EDT
[#8]
So Bushmaster and Armalite have the tightest "5.56" chambers? I see this again and again on arfcom, ESPECIALLY with Bushmaster. My Armalite from last year has NEVER jammed with 10+ types of ammo through it, but there were a few threads re- overpressure in these guns. Sux about the hot M193. I'll only run new lots through the Colts now. They may have loose chambers, but they run like the devil. |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 12:54:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Huh? You mean to tell me that Federal XM193 is no good to run through AR's now? Please..................... The AK guys are wetting their pants right now laughing. Until somebody posts pics, lot numbers and sources from whom they purchased their ammo I am calling BS on all this. There. Stop already. You are making fools of yourselves. |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 1:05:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Yes, XM193 is complete crap, stop buying it and let the prices drop.
 I am a good samaritan, and would like to help your department ease the financial burden of having shitty ammo. Please send $10k to my residence, and I will reimburse your department $220 per thousand rounds. |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 1:29:19 PM EDT
[#11]
So this wasn't the old 20 rd brown box XM193, nor the newer 20 rd black box XM193, but 30 rd boxed XM193 on stripper clips. Do you know what lot # you were shooting? |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 3:01:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Just to clarify - my popped primer (1 in 150 rounds) was with the NEW BLACK BOX XM193C - LOT NO V 49 W534. Sounds like the OP was referring to brown box XM193 on strippers. |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 4:09:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Very interested in this as I yet to shoot either of the "problem" rounds..
Lot #s and year will help us with figuring out what is going on.. |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 4:28:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Loser QC for ammo making it to civilian/LE hands. |
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Posted: 6/11/2008 6:05:27 PM EDT
[#15]
3,500+ rounds of brown box XM193 through Bushmaster ARs. No malfunctions of any kind. Bad lots can happen but XM193 remains my ammunition of choice for SHTF situations.
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Posted: 6/11/2008 6:25:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Is this the stuff that Cheaper than Dirt is selling in the 30rd boxes with Stripper clips? They have both the 30rd un-labeled boxes and the regular 20rd labeled boxes(the ad shows the famous m885 box).
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Posted: 6/11/2008 7:01:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Probably won't see any problems for a bit because I think the people who have been buying the recent XM193 are hoarding it and not shooting it (myself included).
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Posted: 6/11/2008 7:44:30 PM EDT
[#18]
makes you feel sick to think about your shtf ammo possibly being unreliable, don't it. 
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Posted: 6/11/2008 8:07:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Always sample your stuff.
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Posted: 6/12/2008 11:52:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Ordered 1K rds of XM193C two weeks ago and just ordered another 1K rds today.
Maybe I should just throw it all away... Down range! |
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Posted: 6/12/2008 4:15:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Good, good advice. No matter HOW rare/valuable/hoardable an ammo is, if you plan to rely on it, test it, then store it well. I lucked into 550 rds of 1966 factory 31 ChiCom 7.62x39 steel core, still sealed in the can for $80.00. As much as I wanted to leave it sealed, I had to open the can and shoot some to make sure all was well. ALWAYS test your ammo if you plan to rely on it at some point. |
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Posted: 6/13/2008 4:44:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Well, if you guys don't want to trust it anymore, I'll dispose of it for ya. |
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Posted: 6/13/2008 9:09:13 AM EDT
[#23]
All of my XM193 stash is lot# 75 and under which puts it back a few years. I have not heard of any problems from ammo in that era. I shot a ton of lot# 40 but have not shot any in lot # 75. I feel the issue is with the most recent batch that comes on stripper clips in brown boxes.
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Posted: 6/13/2008 10:22:55 AM EDT
[#24]
This makes me so happy that I had spent all of my money on Wolf 55gr when it was real cheap, instead of waiting on this XM193.
 Of course, now all of my money is going to buy reloading supplies so that I can just load my own and know it is going to work (hopefully ). So what if it isn't M193 spec - this XM193 isn't either. 
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Posted: 6/13/2008 1:14:38 PM EDT
[#25]
I think this is the key information in the OP. I have seen this stuff also and was considering buying some as it would be nice to have some shiny new XM193 on strippers. At the same time In my mind I was wondering why ammo like this would suddenly be available to the public. Federal never packed commercial XM193 this way in the past and if they did it was not in any large quantity. My guts are telling me two things about this particular XM193 (the stuff available now in 900 round cases on strippers). 1. These reports seem credible and don't appear to be firearm related 2. This does not seem to be the XM193 we've come to know and love Unless this is nailed down to a particular lot number/s I would beware of spending 40 cents a round on this stuff Just my opinion |
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Posted: 6/13/2008 1:35:15 PM EDT
[#26]
I had a similar issue at a carbine class...I was ticked.
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Posted: 6/13/2008 4:18:31 PM EDT
[#27]
It was a result of a canceled gov contract. production came after the contract was canceled so perhaps they ran the machines 90mph with limited QC checks..? With the number of folks reporting problems it must be real. |
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Posted: 6/13/2008 4:24:32 PM EDT
[#28]
I bought a case or 2 when it FIRST came out But Im glad I have BH75gr BH/MK262 white box |
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Posted: 6/13/2008 4:24:37 PM EDT
[#29]
I know the original post is about the 900 rd case on strippers, but does the situation really concern the ammo that showed up in the tacticool black boxes as well ????
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Posted: 6/13/2008 4:25:57 PM EDT
[#30]
I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GIVEN |
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Posted: 6/14/2008 4:41:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Canceled gov contract? XM193 is loaded at the Lake City ammunition plant is it not? At a time when gov suppliers are pumping out 5.56 at maximum rates I don't see any contract being canceled unless of course it did not pass QC. With the amount of bad reports on this stuff it sounds like this was a case where the entire lot was scrapped because of this issue. As stated earlier, I'm sure a lot of this ammo is being sold but only a small amount is getting fired as most people are likely stashing it for a rainy day. Given that fact, this ammo must be pretty bad to have this many reports of failures with so few rounds fired. Thanks to the OP for posting this! Likely saved myself and many others from dropping a bunch of cash on unreliable ammo. That being said this might just be a particular lot but problems like this are going to be much tougher to nail down as most people are buying but shooting very little. |
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Posted: 6/14/2008 8:33:40 PM EDT
[#32]
It be nice if he gave us a lot number. The 30 round stripper boxes have a lot number like this: SMQ08A037-205 I have 600 rounds on strippers and all of them have this lot number. I just notice also when comparing some black box ammo to strippered box ammo there is a noticeable difference in the crimp. The strippered ammo has a very light crimp. I have not shot any strippered LC stuff yet so I have no clue if it will do the same thing or not. I have shot plenty of black box ammo and it hasn't faltered yet. I have some brown box stuff with the same head stamp as the strippered ammo stashed. I'll have to dig it out and check the crimps and see if they are as light as the strippered ammo. Black box on the left, strippered on the right.   |
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Posted: 6/14/2008 8:59:06 PM EDT
[#33]
sounds like you guys had more problems with that batch that any of the Wolf i've run.......
seriously, i'm assuming this is your training stuff and not your duty ammo? |
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Posted: 6/14/2008 11:40:26 PM EDT
[#34]
There is more than one government, ya know. First there are like 6 services the buy the stuff for Iraq, then there is domestic, then there are like state police/militias, then there is like local PD's, and then there are governments of other nations. ...... all of these are governments so I could see one of them canceling a run/order. I subscribe to your conspiracy theory more of a bad lot getting out. Hope it is not that $200 shipped stuff everyone is having problems with as I just bout $400 worth of it. |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 12:06:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Here's a thread about the cancellation. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=364490 |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 5:00:15 AM EDT
[#36]
rippersde50
Thanks for the link. Very interesting stuff but I must say my BS detector was going off quite frequently in the initial post of that thread. Some of the information attributed to the Federal rep just does not pass the smell test for me. I could be wrong because I have never been in the ammo biz but I have been in the gun business and have owned several companies (not gun related). Some of the information in that thread just does not jive business wise. Another thing that stuck out to me was the claim that the 855PD was the same as 855 the only difference being the tax. Now myself I always stayed away from PD as there were many documented reports of quality issues and reports of culls from nearly every box of PD ammo. I thought it was well understood here that PD was fine for plinking and training but should not be relied upon for any serious work. So according to this Federal rep PD has always been the same as grade one ammo and the reports of problems with PD were wrong? Wasn’t PD marked “for training purpose only”? I can’t remember but if so why would it be marked that way when it’s top tier ammo? Lastly, the reason I’m being so inquisitive about this is I’m wanting to pick up some more ammo in bulk myself. I have not really been buying 5.56 in any quantity, just buy some, shoot some and sitting on my stash. At 40 cents a round if I drop a bunch of cash I want to be sure I’m getting top grade ammo, especially from Federal which I have long regarded as the best ammunition manufacturer in the industry. Thanks for all the info on this subject! |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 9:06:54 AM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 6/15/2008 11:03:35 AM EDT
[#38]
I went out and tested some of this suspect ammo from Jason yesterday, and with my 40 some year old eyes I did pretty damn good. First 5 (the U-Shaped group) were in the upper portion of the square so I kept shooting.
No failures, no flyers. LMT MRP 1:7 Twist ACOG TA01 BiPod Supported 100yds - 86 degress - slight breeze. 
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Posted: 6/16/2008 3:17:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Just a point on the lot numbers. A lot of guys bought from Jason in ammo cans. Since those would be repacked the lot number would not be known to the current owner. Has anyone talked to Jason to see if he has heard anything other then couple of sources posted here?
If we are keeping track, i bought form Jason and fired 100-ish rounds with no trouble. ialso bought some of the black box, but have not fired any of it. |
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Posted: 6/29/2008 11:43:43 AM EDT
[#40]
XM193 A has popped primers in my rifle. My chamber is 5.56 spec and has handles previous lots of XM193 and guatemalen ammo with ease. No failures directly associated with the popped primer, but I did as a result have 2-3 FTL's as the primer interrupted the action.
However, this lot has resulted in popped primers for my use. Lot number is SMQ07M037-193, as indicated on cardboard sleeve, the lot # space on the cardboard 900rd box is empty, if someone can tell me if they need more info, I'll be happy to look it up. As of right now, the rest of this ammo will be shot off in a timely fashion, leaving my Guat as my SHTF ammo. If the OP in this thread can post lot #'s as well, we may be on the track to solving this. ETA: Ammo was bought from G2G tactical, not Jason, if it makes a difference. |
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Posted: 6/29/2008 4:30:43 PM EDT
[#41]
It's a Given, it won't happen. |
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Posted: 6/29/2008 6:59:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Lake City is the civilian run ammo plant for the military. The military buys from civilian ammo companies to bolster production from Lake City. In fact they were having to dip into 50 cal ammo produced during WW2. XM193C is produced by Federal NOT lake City. C is the stuff in the black boxes marked "American Eagle Tactial". X simply denotes its going to civilians and doesnt designate the ammo as seconds. I bought SEVERAL thousand rounds of XM193C with a lot number ending in W418. So far I have shot a couple thousand rounds through 2 different AR's without a single issue to report. M855 is the standard military round, and real M855 produced by Lake City has not been sold for a few years. This XM193 sold is either used as range or practice ammo. For instance for a short while we were using British stuff in the brown cans as range ammo. Issue combat ammo will be US made M855. And yes guys test your ammo. If you want to keep your cases sealed by a few extra boxes and request the extra boxes from the same lot as the case. Run 100-200 rounds of it to make sure it functions in your weapon and then you still have your pretty sealed case. |
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Posted: 6/29/2008 8:02:28 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 6/30/2008 1:16:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Thanks for the info I was getting ready to buy some myself. I will have to monitor the situation further before I buy anymore. I have only had 1 bad round in the last 2000 rounds and it never even made it to to the magazine because of a larger than normal dented case. This stuff is the older brown box 2006 dated stuff though.
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Posted: 6/30/2008 1:35:04 PM EDT
[#45]
I would really like to know the lot number of the OP's ammo. If it matches RileyS's that could narrow things down a bit. I have yet to have a problem with my strippered XM193. Shot some more today.
Lot number: SMQ08A037-205. I have have alos yet to have a problem with the Black Box XM. |
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Posted: 6/30/2008 5:47:29 PM EDT
[#46]
I had one FTF out of 500+ rounds due to an impenetrable primer. It must have been made of adamantium or something...
Anyway, it was Fed (tan box) XM193, Lot-197. |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 12:03:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Sorry guys, I havent been back to check this thread.
Headstamp: LC 08 and LC 07 Box Markings: 5.56mm BALL XM193A SMQ08B037-215 Rippersd50, the headstamp looks like the one on the right in your pic. We use TAP for duty ammo, thank God. |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 1:14:17 PM EDT
[#48]
You should edit your original post and add this info. This will prevent the FDA-like "oh my gosh, tomatoes are killing people! Don't eat tomatoes!!!111!" reaction on this ammo. One post gets enough viewers, and sales of a good product with one bad batch can suffer for no reason until the end of time. 
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Posted: 7/27/2008 3:05:28 PM EDT
[#49]
I have 3k-4k of lot 1 I bought when it first came out.
Overall, it's been good. I've shot maybe 300-400 and out of that bunch, only one failure-to-fire (dead primer). Of course, I've fired hundreds of IMI M193 and Win Q3131A (I know, these are both IMI), PMC, PMP/Denel, and never had a failure of any kind. The XM193 is range ammo for me. I don't trust it for self-defense. Even with one failure in 300, I don't trust it. |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 10:12:59 PM EDT
[#50]
I find it amusing that people are OMGWTF!! about this. Considering that the reason it's labeled XM193 is because the lot FAILED to meet military standards for one reason or another, maybe, just maybe, it might fail in your rifle too?
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