Troy posed this question in another thread, and I thought it would be entertaining to hear some of your experiences with bargain optics.  Please tell us about failures, warranty issues, and what you're using now.

For me, I've made quite a few purchasing errors, but the one that really stands out in my mind is a Simmons 44 Mag 2-10.  I tried to put a $150 scope on my new 7mm Mag...it lasted about 14 shots before it decided it had had enough.  To Simmons' credit, they repaired the scope quickly--not quickly enough to salvage deer season, but less than 3 weeks turnaround.  Since AZ had a lottery for deer, I either had to buy another scope, or forget hunting that season. I was a young troop, newly married and times were tight back then.  No hunt for me.  When it came back from the factory, I put the Simmons back on the rifle and sighted it in, and the vertical crosshair broke after less than a box of ammo.  Simmons, again to their credit, repaired the scope.  I got rid of the Simmons in a trade, and didn't even use my 7mm for another 6 yrs, this time with a mid-range priced Weaver...which wouldn't track, but that's another issue.  I finally got the idea to buy QUALITY, and got myself a Nightforce.  I swap this scope to/from 5 different long range/precision rifles, .22-7 mag.  Well over 5K rounds of various ammo, several hunting seasons and no problems of any kind.  Will I buy a 'bargain' scope again?  Maybe for a plinker, or to try out a new reticle style, but definately not for a go-to gun.  Pay for quality, only cry once!

Back to add:  I'm not trying or wanting to bash any particular companies--Simmons went out of their way to keep me a happy customer, and for some jobs/situations, they make some good stuff.  Also, I didn't start this thread to say NF is the end-all-be-all of optics either. I just wanted to tap into the forum's vast pool of experience so the folks who are new to the shooting sports don't make the same mistakes I made.

I've put a lot of cheap glass on my rifles...too many to afford good stuff on lol.  Outside of one Tasco giving up the ghost after about 100 rounds on an FAL, and a BEC being a POS from the get go, I've had no complaints.  

Now, "cheap" is in the eye of the beholder...I do believe there are lower priced scopes that can perform well for years...and then there's just cheap...like a $39 Blazer scope.  

Now that I've gotten about 90% of the long guns I really want, much of my gun budget will go towards upgrading some glass. I don't think I'll ever be able to justify $1000 on a scope I'm gonna be punching holes in paper with, though, since I don't hunt.  I'd have to win the lottery and have "money to burn" bot be able to spend that kind of money on optics.

The best piece of glass I own is a Weaver Grand Slam, that I've been very happy with.  The guys and SWFA recommended that over a Leupold which was more expensive.  I will most likely get another Grand Slam, and I've been looking at an IOR as well.  

I was out saturday, and I took about 15 minutes just looking through the Weaver glass at different magnifications.  It's crystal clear, and the 2 or 3 people who looked through it, all Leupy owners, compared it favorably to what they have.  I was able to compare the Weaver to a Simmons I've had on another rifle...there's no comparison in quality.  I was able to make out the target better at 10x with the Weaver than 16x with the Simmons.  This was sort of an epiphany for me...I can see where getting less magnification but much better glass certainly has some merit.  

There are a lot of people who just can't afford high $$ optics...and there are some products out there that will serve them well for years.  I think a lot of it has to do with application...I have a Simmons Aetec that's a great scope, but i'm not gonna put it on a .300 Win Mag...that's a little above and beyond it's capabilities.  I would have no trouble using a Super Sniper from SWFA on that, though...and it's only a $300 scope.  

I only know one word when it comes to scopes, [b]LEUPOLD[/b], so yep if needed I'd by a Vari-X II Leupy again as even their cheapies are better than most other top of the line models.

For hunting applications (set it/forget it) a low end Leupy while more expensive up front, can be cheaper in the long run than anything else, when ya factor in the junk sold for optics nowdays.

Mike

In the past I've tried to save a buck with cheaper glass (and mounts/rings) but I was never happy. Back in 1991 I bought my first two ARs, matching 6601 Colts. I tried two different budget scopes with budget mounts before I finally got aggravated enough to buy a Leupold 3-9x40 VariX II and ARMS #2.

Thirteen years later that scope still functions perfectly, despite being dropped twice and spending a good part of it's life rattling around in the trunk of a police cruiser. I touch up the finish with a Sharpie pen.

Quoted: In the past I've tried to save a buck with cheaper glass (and mounts/rings) but I was never happy. Back in 1991 I bought my first two ARs, matching 6601 Colts. I tried two different budget scopes with budget mounts before I finally got aggravated enough to buy a Leupold 3-9x40 VariX II and ARMS #2. Thirteen years later that scope still functions perfectly, despite being dropped twice and spending a good part of it's life rattling around in the trunk of a police cruiser. I touch up the finish with a Sharpie pen. home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/HBAR_leupold.JPG

nice setup

I have always bought quality scopes--Nikon Monarchs and Leupold Vari-X III's for my expensive firearms. I can't say the same for my slug guns and rimfires though. I used to go cheap on them. One failure stands out clearly in my mind. I had a Remington 12-gauge slug gun and wanted a fixed-power scope. 4X seemed a little low at the time, so I decided I wanted a fixed 6X. Well, the only one I could locate was a Pine Ridge series scope from Cabela's. I promptly ordered it and it arrived two days before firearms season. I installed it on the shotgun and proceeded to sight it in. I achieved a really tight group at 100 yards and was very satisfied with it. I decided to fire one more round just to double-check the zero. Upon firing it, the reticle crosshair wire broke like a tightly-stretched piece of wire. I was pressed for time and didn't want to mess with junk, so I went out the next night and bought a Nikon Monarch UCC 4X40, and resighted it. I had wasted all those expensive sabots in my first sighting-in procedure and had to buy more boxes to resight. I barely had time to get it ready for the season opening the next morning. On a positive note, I took a pretty good 8-point buck less than 30 minutes into legal shooting hours the next morning with it. [:D]

Going inexpensive was easy on the pocketbook and satisfied my instant gratification but it never made me feel confident in my equipment.  It was like a nagging voice in the back of my head.

All the cheapy red dots I tried to save a buck on petered out and all the cheapy scopes broke one way or another.  There's no way around the saying [blue]"You get what you pay for."[/blue] It's as sure as death and taxes.

I've discovered that people everywhere are in some stage of coming to that ultimate conclusion.  

Simmons 6.5-20x44mm 44 mag rifle scope sitting in Leupold QD rings sitting on weaver mounts (3 bucks a peice for the two...lol)

All sitting on a Savage 10FPLE2a.

Interesting combo, but I routinely shoot MOA or better groups at 100 yards with federal american eagle .223, and thats when I'm being "lazy".

I simply bought the rifle for prairie dog hunting, and "precision" work at the pit, suits me just fine.

Tagged for later . Interesting thread you started.

Once you use good optics its hard to even look through a cheap scope!

I started with the mid range Bushnell scopes.  $150 - $170 on my .270 ADL and 444 Marlin.

I used cheap Weaver rings and cheap bases.

My best friend had a cheap Simmons scope $80 on his Ruger .270.

The Bushnells never broke held up suprisingingly well for the heavy recoiling rifles I had them on, but each time I went to the range they were off a hair or two.

Which is fine since they were hunting rifles not "grouping" rifles.  But it always bugged me.

My best friend's Simmons broke.  It stopped moving the shot impact...simply stopped working.  He dealt with them via warranty stuff and finally gave the newly returned scope to a black powder hunting bud as a backcup...

He then bought a VariXII.  He will now never buy anything but Leupold as the scope never let him down.  Unfortunately he sold the .270.

I have since moved on to a VariXII first...then my first Tasco Super Sniper, then an Mk4, then another Mk4, then 3 - VariXIII M3's, then a couple M1LR's and now another M3.

I'll never go back, but there is a place for each scope and I was told this by someone who obviously had already gone the route I took:

"If there were no difference between a $100 scope and a $1000 scope; there would be NO $1000 scopes.

Leupolds are NOT the best at any ONE thing but they do many things VERY WELL and they are run by Americans in America -- and they stand behind their product for the life of the scope.

I'm not sure I could ask for much more.  I know my scopes will be zeroed when I pick up the rifle, I know they will track reliably, and I know that if the scope EVER fails, it will be repaired or replaced to as new condition.

I'll stick with Leupolds, but I have my eye on the USMC M40 from US Optics.

Would I????






I already have. Twice.

It all depends on use.

I have a BSA red dot on my 10/22 plinker, it works well.

I have a Trijicon Accupoint 3x9 on my AR15, it works well too.

I'd never put the BSA on my AR15.

In a heartbeat.  I've never had any of my 4 Simmons AETEC scopes fail on me.  Until I do, all the stories I hear are just that, stories.

[img]http://members.cox.net/daphotoguy/DPMS_V.jpg[/img]

A few years ago I was bent on setting up a super cheep .223 to take into the goose pit with me. With the help of Shotgun News I was able to come up with:
Howa 1500 $250 from Kiesler's
Leaper's 6-24X56 $99 from Tapco
a free parker job from Geo at DSA and a can of OD spraypaint and I was done. I even used the rings that came with the Leaper's.
To this day that gun shoots MOA with Blackhills cheepo blue lable. The scope is bright and has held zero thru 1000rds. I've dropped it, soaked it and froze it but it still works.

Buy another cheepo scope? Maybe, but my AR sports an ELCAN M145.  

Is a Simmons AETEC scope considered a "budget" optic though? I thought they were in the $200 range.

Maybe a couple years ago, but bushmaster sells them for $150 and Wal-Mart has them on sale now and then for $100.  Sure, it's not in the $30 - $50 range of the REALLY cheap ones.

It will be interesting to see if my AETEC can stand up to my new .300 Win Mag for very long.  I've had them on Nagants, 8mm Mausers, and 30-06 bolt guns.  When I got the .300 Win Mag I was surprised at how much MORE recoil it had than my other guns.  If anything is going to break my AETEC, this will be the gun.  Only shot 20 rounds so far (that's all my body could stand).

After seeing the view from an ACOG, Leupold Tacticals and a few other high quality optics - combined with me missing a chance at a very nice buck two years ago due to inferior optics combined with low light conditions, I will never go back.  For (relatively) inexpensive optics, I choose Nikon scopes for some of my hunting rifles, but my primary hunting rifle has a Leupold M1 Tactical on it.  I hope to never to miss a chance like I did two years ago due to my optics not allowing me to clearly see what I want/need to see.

I am not a rich man, and have to seriously budget for each optics purchase, but I do my best to maintain top quality optics on all my rifles.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In a heartbeat.  I've never had any of my 4 Simmons AETEC scopes fail on me.  Until I do, all the stories I hear are just that, stories. members.cox.net/daphotoguy/DPMS_V.jpg Is a Simmons AETEC scope considered a "budget" optic though? I thought they were in the $200 range. Maybe a couple years ago, but bushmaster sells them for $150 and Wal-Mart has them on sale now and then for $100.  Sure, it's not in the $30 - $50 range of the REALLY cheap ones.

Ahhh. Thanks for the info

Quoted: In a heartbeat.  I've never had any of my 4 Simmons AETEC scopes fail on me.  Until I do, all the stories I hear are just that, stories.

Since your so proud of it, for comparision, exactly "how many times" have you taken the AETEC scope out to the range, run it out from 100 yards thru 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and out to 1000 yards and then back to your 100 yard zero. Cranking in your come-ups for each range.

Once

Twice

More times..... never........, given your bragging it could be quite heplful to know how many times you have actually used it (other than to set-it and forget-it).

For referrence I have a V-III 4.5x14x40 Tact. Leupy, which I change the mount on the other day, this was the first time in 5 years the scope had been re-zeroed, and it has made the trip described above from 100-1000, 100-600 and from 100-800, hundreds of times during that period, I suspect it'll be longer than that before it's touched again, unless I drop it (as I don't intend on changing the mount again).

So give us some facts here, how many times have ya run that thing from 100 yards out to 600 or 800 or ever how far you have actually run it.

Enquiring minds want to know....

Mike

i agree with troy, ya get what ya pay for. i used to buy less expensive equipment and in the long run, i went and bought the equipment that i passed up to save some money. so i actually spent more money and time by going the cheap route. save up and go for the quality equipment.
                 meat

Quoted: Since your so proud of it, for comparision, exactly "how many times" have you taken the AETEC scope out to the range, run it out from 100 yards thru 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and out to 1000 yards and then back to your 100 yard zero. Cranking in your come-ups for each range. Once Twice More times..... never........, given your bragging it could be quite heplful to know how many times you have actually used it (other than to set-it and forget-it). For referrence I have a V-III 4.5x14x40 Tact. Leupy, which I change the mount on the other day, this was the first time in 5 years the scope had been re-zeroed, and it has made the trip described above from 100-1000, 100-600 and from 100-800, hundreds of times during that period, I suspect it'll be longer than that before it's touched again, unless I drop it (as I don't intend on changing the mount again). So give us some facts here, how many times have ya run that thing from 100 yards out to 600 or 800 or ever how far you have actually run it. Enquiring minds want to know.... Mike

well, this wasnt' directed at me, BUT...maybe his needs for a scope aren't the same as yours.  ..maybe he just needs it to hold zero at 100 yards.  Not everyone here needs a scope to do exactly what your $600 or more Leupold does.  You're obviously shooting at a higher level than I do, for intance...I shoot targets at 100 yards at a range.  I don't need a friggin Zeiss scope for that...it would be nice, IF I had the $$...but I don't.  

I paid $139 for my Aetec...that could certainly be consdered budget optics, especially compared to the VXIII.  Is it as good...hell no...does it suit MY needs, and the needs of other folks who have similar demands of their optics...yes indeedy.  If that scope lasts for 3 years and breaks, I'll be happy...really...because it did what I needed it to do until I could afford something better.  

The $30 BSA red dot I had on one of my ARs until I got the aimpoint filled the same role...it worked great blasting away at 25 yards at an indoor range until I could afford something better.  Now it's on another gun, and it works there too.

I think every one here would be using Nightforce,or  Schmidt & Bender or Hans and friggin' Franz if we could afford it...but some people can't.  And if it works for them, I don't see why some folks can't just be happy for them.  

Cheapest scope I own is a little bushnell that I have on my 22lr., got it for shooting out to maybe 50 yards on ground squirrels.    It has poor turrets that aren't consistent nor very repeatable, it will change zero as you change magnification.    But for what I use it for, the little 60 dollar scope works just fine after having set the magnification and zero'd it never to touch it again.



My next cheapest scope is a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x mildot and for 200 bucks it's actually a pretty damn good scope for the money.    It's turrets appear to be repeatable and consistent which is good because I use it as a target scope dialing in the elevation for range.     All I got the scope for was to develop some loads for my 300WinMag while getting some exposure to using the mil-dot reticle, I'm happy with the stupid little scope and will definitely keep it once it comes time to upgrade to something more substantial.

I'm thinking something along the lines of a Nightforce for the 300WinMag and the 10x Bushnell will go to my 20inch AR15 with the intent of it serving as a spotter's rifle.


My other two scopes, a Bushnell Elite 4000 6-24x that I'm not all that pleased with but I got it for a good deal and then there is my 6.5-20x Leupold Long Range which is the scope that spoiled me to side parallax knobs such that I never want to go back to objective based setups.

heh, know that feeling.


My 300WinMag was beating the hell out of me the first day I had it out, I think I had a bad bore sighting and it took me like 20 rounds to find paper at the range.   Once I did I put some rounds into it to get it zero'd THEN I got to shoot my first group.    After 40 rounds, a bruised shoulder, and a VERY difficult to obtain 5shot group hovering at 1 inch I was ready to go put the rifle up.    I was shooting from the prone and hadn't quite found a good spot for holding the rifle, my collar bone was taking the brunt of the force.


Now I shoot a little differently and I can go 40 rounds pretty easily with no real fatigue.    Still though, can't wait to ditch the PSS stock and get an adjustable McMillian to more properly fit my apish frame.

No.

I've had decent luck with cheap optics (the couple I've bought), but quality optics simply rock.

They are so much nicer to use and own.

I would rather stick to iron sights if I can't buy the quality optic.

Of course I'd switch my Escort for a BMW!!!  Who wouldn't?  But for now,  it's the best I've got.  And if it dies,  I'll get another.  
  I have Simmons on my 22mag.  Perfect scope for it.  Period.  Accurate as all hell.   Another Simmons for my 30/30.  Scope DID cost more than the gun!!  Works great for like 10 years now.  A high dollar($95!) Simmons for my 7mag.  Works like a champ after hundreds of rounds.  Love it!  Recently bought a Nikon Prostaff for my BP.  Amazing!  But alot of money.  And a top of the line Nikon for my 24" AR.  Nothing beats it.  
 I'm a poor kid.  I CAN"T buy all nice scopes.  But the ones I have work great.  And I know I'd love to have all Nikons.  They are amazing.  But I can't.  So I'd say
               YES I WOULD BUY ANOTHER SIMMONS.

I've never spent less than $330 on any optic. I've been lucky enough to learn from other people's bad experiences. I'd rather buy the right thing the first time and be done with.

Quoted: I had good luck with a Bushnell 3200. I sold it since as a fixed 10x it wasn't that great a match for the rifle it was on, but I put plenty of .308 through the rifle with that scope on it and it held up to that and rain, snow getting knocked around just fine. I'd buy another one.

Is that the scope I "tactically detached" at Bulletfest IV?

If so yes it probably has taken a beating

Just a rough rule of thumb I have is:  "spend about as much on your scope as you did on your rifle".  This tends to match appropriate quality with quality.  Of coarse there are always exceptions, but this works for me as a general rule.