Just got my first REAL Optic - an EOTech 512.  I've never really had the cash to get a Military style optic like this, but I have it now, and it looks awesome.  I love the holographic reticle.  Nice, bright and clear.  I am just wanting to know how it compares to the Aimpoint models, and what is general concensous on the EOTech models?  Specifically the 512?

Here is a picture of what I got:

EOTech produces quality stuff. 512 is considered to be the best well rounded optic for the money, because it relies on AA batteries.

EOtech and Aimpoint are very good optics. There are differences, and many people favor one brand over the other because of these differences, but you cannot go wrong with either brand.

I used the N battery for a while for duty use and it was worthless.  Everytime I pulled my rifle out for use the batteries were dead.  I know I put the gun up each time with the eotech turned off, but somehow the batteries died anyway.  I also used good energizer n batteries.  I've heard others say they've had similar problems.

Hope your AA version works much better.  Wouldn't put your life in the line with it though.  I'm an aimpoint man from here on out.

I have an EOTech 512 and I love it.  I found a good deal on an Aimpoint so I picked up one of those for my other rifle.  You've made a good choice, the AA version has much better battery life than the N version.

Here is a pic of the Aimpoint reticle if you're interested.  It is less busy than the EOTech, but for me the reticle on the EOTech is faster to acquire when coming up to shoot from a low ready position.






Other rifle w/ 512 on it:

I love this thing!

BTW, what is the battery life on the AA EOTech?

Quoted: I have an EOTech 512 and I love it.  I found a good deal on an Aimpoint so I picked up one of those for my other rifle.  You've made a good choice, the AA version has much better battery life than the N version. Here is a pic of the Aimpoint reticle if you're interested.  It is less busy than the EOTech, but for me the reticle on the EOTech is faster to acquire when coming up to shoot from a low ready position. i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/cland72/DSC02020.jpg i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/cland72/DSC02025.jpg Other rifle w/ 512 on it: i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/cland72/DSC02028.jpg

Quoted: BTW, what is the battery life on the AA EOTech?

Online I'm seeing 600 hours with regular AA's, and 1,100 with Lithium AA's.


Compare that with 200 hours runtime on the 511 model (N batts) and you'll realize how good a decision you made

The EOTech 512 is great!

Compared?  

Well...my Aimpoint stays on when I fire the weapon and holds zero.  My EO Techs never did that long term.  

My ACOGs hold zero and are reliable but lose the reticle when the fiber optic breaks and they are slow up close...

I have an Aimpoint and an Eotech 512.  The Aimpoint has much better battery life, but I like the Eotech reticle better.  I like them both equally and don't think you can go wrong with either.  

Like FedDC said, Aimpoint. If you want to compare EOs to Aimpoints, no contest, Aimpoint (as I don my flame suit) I had a 512 because all the guys I worked with said it was the latest and greatest, went down twice in one training session, sent it back, got it back, didn't work, sent it back, then got a 552, it went maybe one 30rd mag, then the reticle would die, replaced batteries, still didn't work, sent it back, got a refund, and got an Aimpoint, and never looked back. Funny thing is that their (co workers) EOs started going out also, but they still kept sending them back, and again they went down. To this day, they still have problems with them during quals/training. Dont get me wrong I think the concept is great, but L3/Eotech just cant pull it off, and their CS has alot to be desired. L3/Eotech just lost out to Aimpoint again for the M68CCO for the Army, 500,000+ units going to the Army. I have Aimpoints on all my rifles, and leave the batteries on all the time. Ive replaced the batteries in my M2 once in 4 yrs, the others are M4s and T1s, and I have yet to replace the batteries. The battery life on Aimpoints is just rediculous. I know there are alot of EOtech supportors here, but I gotta say Aimpoint. These are just my observations from first hand use and experience of both, everyone will have their own. Hope this helps.

I have a IFFYTECH 551 on my Back Up LMT M4

My GO TO LMT M4 has my Old Aimpoint ML2  4MOA DOT



If Im putting my life on the line then I would PICK AIMPOINT



BTW

I SHOOT THE SAME SIZE GROUPS WITH BOTH M4`S  EOTECH/AIMPOINT

1MOA DOT  OR 4MOA DOT

So dont belive all the BS about 1MOA being more accurate

Quoted: Like FedDC said, Aimpoint. If you want to compare EOs to Aimpoints, no contest, Aimpoint (as I don my flame suit) I had a 512 because all the guys I worked with said it was the latest and greatest, went down twice in one training session, sent it back, got it back, didn't work, sent it back, then got a 552, it went maybe one 30rd mag, then the reticle would die, replaced batteries, still didn't work, sent it back, got a refund, and got an Aimpoint, and never looked back. Funny thing is that their (co workers) EOs started going out also, but they still kept sending them back, and again they went down. To this day, they still have problems with them during quals/training. Dont get me wrong I think the concept is great, but L3/Eotech just cant pull it off, and their CS has alot to be desired. L3/Eotech just lost out to Aimpoint again for the M68CCO for the Army, 500,000+ units going to the Army. I have Aimpoints on all my rifles, and leave the batteries on all the time. Ive replaced the batteries in my M2 once in 4 yrs, the others are M4s and T1s, and I have yet to replace the batteries. The battery life on Aimpoints is just rediculous. I know there are alot of EOtech supportors here, but I gotta say Aimpoint. These are just my observations from first hand use and experience of both, everyone will have their own. Hope this helps.

+1



My 551 EOTECH

went down 3 Times with new Batts!

I just wont trust it with my life

BlackReedDesign

I am just wanting to know how it compares to the Aimpoint models, and what is general concensous on the EOTech models? Specifically the 512?

Normally one does the research BEFORE they purchase an optic.....
that said, there is a ton of info about EOtechs and Aimpoints and ACOG's
Your a team member so you have access to every thread..Do the leg work and you will answer your own question.

Quoted: Quoted: BTW, what is the battery life on the AA EOTech? Online I'm seeing 600 hours with regular AA's, and 1,100 with Lithium AA's. Compare that with 200 hours runtime on the 511 model (N batts) and you'll realize how good a decision you made

Hi Dallas!
I know that the battery life is what L3 claims, but have you actually run a test for that?

I have, on several different EO's run an informal test, by pressing the + button for the reprted 8 hrs of reticle illumination, and logging the results.
With the AA Lithium batteries, it was in the v/o 400hrs.
However, informal, and basing it on the fact that it actually had power for the 8 hr cycles.

The mil can run accelrated tests, and apparently did so for the last CCO contract that the EO's lost and protested and lost.

Black Reef- as others stated, impulse buying in this game is not a smart thing. Researching what you need, based on your requirements, and then buying may work out better for you in the long run.

Having said that, good luck on your system. Take it out and shoot it. Enjoy it, and bask in the fact that free men can still own guns, thanks to the sacrifices of the military who keeps this country free.

The eotech bashing here is BS.

I can bash aimpoint all day too I have extensive time behind both optics, both are good.  Both have weakness.

EOtech, is a more delicate system than the aimpoint as far as water proofing and shock.  The reason is the EOtech uses a laser and a holographic grid.  

Aimpoint uses an LED light that reflects off glass.

However get either covered in mud, dirt or some other filth and quickly wipe it off with you fingers and you will see the advantages to the EOtech.

The buttons for on off are another supposed hit to the EOtech, because you cannot tell if the optic is on by feel you must look. However I saw many M68 optics with knob so bent it wouldn't turn or broken off completely and if you turn on an aimpoint and don't check it you will be just as suprised.  Always make sure the optic is on before you go into harms way its the nature of the beast.

Now the real kick.  EOtech is more accurate and faster of the two.  1moa dot vs 4 MOA dot, DUH, then the speed of the HUD of the EOtech over the tube that takes more of your vision away.


I have never used an ACOG so but they are way over pirced. $1000 for a 4x optic is nuts.

Trijicon products FTW

SD307

Now the real kick. EOtech is more accurate and faster of the two. 1moa dot vs 4 MOA dot, DUH, then the speed of the HUD of the EOtech over the tube that takes more of your vision away.

That statement right there, shows you know  little about how a RDS works...

Good Morning SD...

Not sure what you consider bashing, but some facts.

Either the EO or the Aimpoint will work just fine with the lens occluded. In fact we teach that (with both sights) at class.

More accurate/ faster is subjective, and not borne out by facts.

Reducing a reticle size makes is more difficult to see when speed is necessary (which is why EO has the 65 moa circle).

There have been tests conducted by Aimpoint which claim that 2 moa is as small a dot that can be useful.
I have shot Pepper Poppers out to 400m w/ 2MOA dots. Also with EO, RCO and so forth.
My times for close stofe,are slightly faster w/ the Aimpoint (both 2 and 4 moa) than with the EO, but probably skewed as i have several hundred thousand rounds with Aimpoints.

I note that EO offers a single dot reticle as an option, but Aimpoint does not offer a dot/ circle. There is probably a reason for that.

Re CCO knobs. Yup, you are correct. However, the original M68 was the M2, which is two generations ago.
The new M68 CCO, is current, and is what the 553 should be compared against.

Re bashing. Crane recalled all 553's That is a fact>
EO lost the CCO contract. That is a fact. They protested and lost- also a fact.

Just sayin....

FMJ - Check

Harv24 - check

Mr. Rogers - Check

Who are we missing?

Bubba12gauge?

Like i said in another thread, if i state my observations, based on my experience, i am a basher, fascist and whatever.

If i blew sunshine up everyone's ass, what would i be then?

Facts are facts. Seems pretty simple to me, but then again, this is planetbarfcom...

FMJ - Check Harv24 - check Mr. Rogers - Check Who are we missing? Bubba12gauge? Mudbug, contributing absolutely nothing of value-Check

There, now were good....

Quoted: FMJ - Check Harv24 - check Mr. Rogers - Check Who are we missing? Bubba12gauge? Mudbug, contributing absolutely nothing of value-Check     There, now were good....

I'm volunteering my services as the official Aimpoint Cheersquad attendance monitor.

Nice choice, if you like the 512, then it will serve you well. I currently have an EOT on my rifle in the rear.

I don't know what you guys are arguing about. I have used both the M68 and the 552 extensively. They both have Pro's and Con's, mostly user preference but I have never had either optic fail me.

I have banged both optics around, between steel door frames chasing haji into his bedroom to dropping, rather..flinging a 552 flat on its head after an RPG hit a wall behind me. Both never let me down.

Niether optic is better than another on the final tally. It's what we call personal preference. I don't know, I'm just sayin...



BTW..Currently the 552 is on my rifle, per personal preference. Anyone who says their life is in the hands of an optic needs to practice up with the BUIS.

I have a 512 and love it.  I have a 516 on my duty rifle right now and love it.  

I'm not  a fan of the Aimpoint m2 of m3 but always listened to what Pat Rogers had to say on the topic.  Listening to him and the rest of the cheersquad led me to order a T1 just yesterday.  

I'm gonna put a few thousand rounds under it before I decide whether or not it rides on the duty rifle though.  It may just end up as an expensive paperweight.

Shoot what you want.  Just make sure it works when you need it.

Vegas- and putting several thousand rounds through it is exactly what is necessary to reacquire the skill sets with this optic.

When i transitioned to the EO, i ran 2-4 of them for a 12 month period, with appx 20,000 rds through them.

There is no substitute for actually using something (anything).

Quoted: FMJ - Check Harv24 - check Mr. Rogers - Check Who are we missing? Bubba12gauge?

LOL, that is funny!!

Quoted: Just got my first REAL Optic - an EOTech 512.  I've never really had the cash to get a Military style optic like this, but I have it now, and it looks awesome.  I love the holographic reticle.  Nice, bright and clear.  I am just wanting to know how it compares to the Aimpoint models, and what is general concensous on the EOTech models?  Specifically the 512?

EOTech 512 are one of the best unit EOTech makes, it is inexpensive, build in mount and it has decent battery life, install a lithium battery and you should get over 1k hours of operation.

I did a test on it when I got my first Rev F 552 back a few years ago, I taped a plastic block to the up button and use a large zip tie to wrap secure the tape and the block. I let it ran as long as the battery lasted. I went back to check end of the first month and the reticle was not blinking when I cycled the on and off switch so I let it ran for another two week, and did the battery check by cycling the on and off and still no blinking reticle on turning the unit ON, figure it was about 1k hours by then, I then let it run again for one week, and came back the battery was dead. so the unit on two AA lithium batteries ran continuously for 46 plus days.  the EOTech was kept in my garage work bench, so the temp was running pretty high in my garage that summer.  the batteries that came out of my EOTech ran my toothbrush for a while....:)

As far as the mount is concern, it is one of the weaker point of the 512. I suggest mounting the sight, hand tighten the thumb screw as tight as you can with your hand. then take a quarter and give it a quarter turn to secure it, repeat this process for two or three times to get the screw thread set in with the thread on the EOTech. and just check for tightness for the inital few range session, once settled, the EOTech should be there to stay.

As far as how it compare to other optics, I alwasy find the RDS in general is faster from muzzle to about 100 yrds on target compare to magnififed optics, but once the distant begin to spread, your will find the guys shooting an ACOG begin to shine.  I can usually keep up with some one with an ACOG out to about 300, and there after, they start to kick my behind noticeably.

Aimpoint and EOTech are both the best RDS on the market, I would not recommend anything else.

Have fun and shoot safe, make sure you check for good instructors coming through your area and take a carbine class. good instruction from knowledgeable instructor will increase your skill ten fold. this is something not even a red dot can replicate.

if you are in the Los Angeles area, try to get in touch with Scotty at ITTS or Bill Murphy at FTA. Scotty is ex-LAPD SWAT an d works his school out of Angeles range and Bill is Huntington Beach PD SWAT and Surefire director of Training, his school is out of Norco.

Blackreef,

Not being smart or anything but is there a reason you run without your trigger guard? It loooks like it is missing in you picture.

Quoted: Other rifle w/ 512 on it: i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/cland72/DSC02028.jpg

Whoah, that is quite a balancing act.
Is any of the rifle against the wall?

Quoted: Quoted: Other rifle w/ 512 on it: i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/cland72/DSC02028.jpg Whoah, that is quite a balancing act. Is any of the rifle against the wall?

Yeah, the buttstock is on the wall and the barrel is also resting on the towel holder

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: BTW, what is the battery life on the AA EOTech? Online I'm seeing 600 hours with regular AA's, and 1,100 with Lithium AA's. Compare that with 200 hours runtime on the 511 model (N batts) and you'll realize how good a decision you made Hi Dallas! I know that the battery life is what L3 claims, but have you actually run a test for that? I have, on several different EO's run an informal test, by pressing the + button for the reprted 8 hrs of reticle illumination, and logging the results. With the AA Lithium batteries, it was in the v/o 400hrs. However, informal, and basing it on the fact that it actually had power for the 8 hr cycles. The mil can run accelrated tests, and apparently did so for the last CCO contract that the EO's lost and protested and lost. Black Reef- as others stated, impulse buying in this game is not a smart thing. Researching what you need, based on your requirements, and then buying may work out better for you in the long run. Having said that, good luck on your system. Take it out and shoot it. Enjoy it, and bask in the fact that free men can still own guns, thanks to the sacrifices of the military who keeps this country free.

Pat, thanks for providing your input.

No, I haven't done a real life test of the runtime of my EOTech (512).  Interesting what you say about it being closer to 400 hours though.  Was that at a high level daytime setting or the intial setting?  I know they say the numbers are based on the initial intensity.

If they are misleading with regards to runtime, that could be very bad for some of our boys in the desert who might only be able to take so many batteries with them...

I like both optics, but to be fair my SBR is my go to gun, and it does have the Aimpoint on it.  The battery life alone is enough for me to decide it's the optic I want if I have to grab my rifle and make for the hills.

Although, in all my years of owning both a Bushnell Holosight and EOTech, I've never had one go down on me.  I don't use it very tough or very much (basically 2 or 3 carbine classes and a few deer & varmint hunts), but I still haven't had a problem with one turning on when I hit the button.

height=8

Quoted: I have an Aimpoint and an Eotech 512.  The Aimpoint has much better battery life, but I like the Eotech reticle better.  I like them both equally and don't think you can go wrong with either.

+1

Hi Dallas!
Thanks for the reply>
Yeah, the problem with informal "testing" such as i muddled through- is that there are few controls. and no oversight.

The reality is that all i can glean from it is that it wasn't what was claimed...

The only two RDS suitable for real world use are Aimpoints and EO's.
I ran 4 for a year but had issues with all of them, though severity fluctuated.
My feeling is that most EO's are GTG, albeit with the limitations of battery life and battery box, and the numbers that are impacted are unknown by everyone/ anyone.

I shoot both Aimpoint/ EO equally well. However, battery life and durability slants me to the Aimpoint.

I don't discriminate against EO's, but have been doing a short block of instruction on the care and feeding of the EO for the last 5 years.

I still have two. The 552 is always dead when i turn it on. The 553 looks GTG.

Regardless of the sight, the bottom line is that the sight is a tool, as is the gun, and the shooter is thye weapon.
Not everyone has the ability to choose the tools, and the decisions may be made at an echelon above reality.

All i care about is it works when i need it...


Edit to add- on the + setting (8 hrs, and using Lithiums

Question? The topic asked to compare EOtech to Aimpoint and ACOG. I see several (same old) answers about Aimpoint, however very little about ACOG. I was wondering how many people show up in a carbine class with ACOG's, and how they(both sight&student) end up faring. Thank you, Bob.

Quoted: Question? The topic asked to compare EOtech to Aimpoint and ACOG. I see several (same old) answers about Aimpoint, however very little about ACOG. I was wondering how many people show up in a carbine class with ACOG's, and how they(both sight&student) end up faring. Thank you, Bob.

Some of the better riflemen I know use Acogs regularly in both carbine classes and 3-gun matches. I don't think they are for everybody, but for those that adapt to them well, or take the time and patience to learn them they seem to be damn fine optics.

You can add me to your "checklist" of folks that strongly recomend the Aimpoint over the Eotech.

I own both, tried both and prefer Aimpoint. I have 2 551's and a 552 that drained batteries in months, while in storage. My Aimpoints have given me zero problems.

Experts like Pat Rogers prefer Aimpoints.

Eotech just recently lost their military contract. There have been major 553 recalls and 557 reticle problems.

Too many guys I know in the sandbox reported their Eotechs going tits up.

Many People(not all) who defend Eotechs are not hard end users. They don't shoot enough to experience real problems or  are in denial that they spent 400+ bucks on an inferior optic.

Quoted: You can add me to your "checklist" of folks that strongly recomend the Aimpoint over the Eotech.

You were listed as missing in action. Don't worry, I gotcha.

Quoted: Many People(not all) who defend Eotechs are not hard end users. They don't shoot enough to experience real problems or  are in denial that they spent 400+ bucks on an inferior optic.

Seems you missed this post in the last one of these threads.

Quoted: Quoted: Just cause a few weekend plinkers who shot 500 rds a year come on here and say "Mine works great, no problems" does not change that fact. I missed this part. The 512 on this rifle is now on the second upper that I've had on this (My main) rifle. The reason is that it's the second upper is that after about 15,000 rounds in about 18 months, including the last 4k at a 5 day TR HRCC class in AZ in 115* weather I decided it was time for a new one. I'm not sure how many rounds have been through it since then, but it hasn't seen the beating it once got since I've spent more time on precision stuff, hunting, and other shooting lately. Not a single problem. www.goobage.com/pics/arms/main_yhm0.jpg Now I know that probably isn't a marine style beating, but it's a far cry from plinker tales.

I did say many and not all. Sure there are Eotechs thta stand up to hard use. However, the fact still remains that there are far too many that can't make it through a day at the range.

Quoted: I did say many and not all. Sure there are Eotechs thta stand up to hard use. However, the fact still remains that there are far too many that can't make it through a day at the range.

Would you care to document the seperate and distinct Eotech problems posted on this forum? Not the repeats of the same story (Really, you should just C&P Mr. Rogers posts to save time) repeated over and over?

I think you will find that while the numbers are way higher than they should be, it's not as bad as you make it out to be either.

MudBug

I think you will find that while the numbers are way higher than they should be, it's not as bad as you make it out to be either.

So tell me Mr EOtech Fan club Vice President (I think we all know who the president is) Just how many need to be bad before you would consider it a issue??



Oh, by chance, did you ever own a Pinto???....just wondering..

Quoted: MudBug I think you will find that while the numbers are way higher than they should be, it's not as bad as you make it out to be either. So tell me Mr EOtech Fan club Vice President (I think we all know who the president is) Just how many need to be bad before you would consider it a issue?? Oh, by chance, did you ever own a Pinto???....just wondering..

Oh, as I've said it before, Hell, you just quoted me saying it, it's an issue right now. L3 is having some QC issues.

Quoted: MudBug I think you will find that while the numbers are way higher than they should be, it's not as bad as you make it out to be either. So tell me Mr EOtech Fan club Vice President (I think we all know who the president is) Just how many need to be bad before you would consider it a issue?? Oh, by chance, did you ever own a Pinto???....just wondering..

I am not muddog, but  for you, Mr. Vice Prez of Aimpoint fan club(we all know who is the prez)if you look at company maturity, EOTech is sbout at the same place in time as Aimpoint with the M-XD, and you remember how bad the M-XD was, which was quickly replaced with the M2.  

Problem with the EOtech are not as common place as before, and thge product developed by EOtech are coming along to match the Aimpoint inreliability, maybe it is not as rugged as an Aimpoint, but it is getting better and better by the year and model cycle. I think you just don't give the optic and the comany enough credit...:)

I didn't have a Pinto, but i did own an alfa....

Quoted: The eotech bashing here is BS. I can bash aimpoint all day too I have extensive time behind both optics, both are good.  Both have weakness. EOtech, is a more delicate system than the aimpoint as far as water proofing and shock.  The reason is the EOtech uses a laser and a holographic grid.   Aimpoint uses an LED light that reflects off glass. However get either covered in mud, dirt or some other filth and quickly wipe it off with you fingers and you will see the advantages to the EOtech. The buttons for on off are another supposed hit to the EOtech, because you cannot tell if the optic is on by feel you must look. However I saw many M68 optics with knob so bent it wouldn't turn or broken off completely and if you turn on an aimpoint and don't check it you will be just as suprised.  Always make sure the optic is on before you go into harms way its the nature of the beast. Now the real kick.  EOtech is more accurate and faster of the two.  1moa dot vs 4 MOA dot, DUH, then the speed of the HUD of the EOtech over the tube that takes more of your vision away. I have never used an ACOG so but they are way over pirced. $1000 for a 4x optic is nuts.

[The Dude]Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.[The Dude]

I love my EOtech.  I prefer using it to Aimpoints.  It however has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be totally unreliable as time has passed.  The first few years it was the best thing around, now it keeps causing batts to leak and keeps taking a dump.

I'm switching back to Aimpoint because of this.  I'm tired of feeling like I'm playing the lottery when I go to turn on my EOTech.

As far as ACOGs go, you're just ignorant on the subject.  First, they can be had for well under $1k.  Additionally, they're phenomenal optics (that many would argue are worth that price).  There aren't many companies that give such good optical quality, at least not in a combat worthy optic.  They're tough as nails and can withstand quite a beating.  While ACOGs are not the best short range or long range optic, they do a pretty decent job overall.  Personal preferences and roles dictate different things, but the ACOG is pretty versitile.

As previously stated by an earlier responder with regard to battery life, my Eotech 512 would drain batteries even when turned off.  At Eotech's advice, I got the best batteries that I could find (Energizer lithiums for about 8 bucks per 2 pack) and it still did the same.

I sold it and will never buy another Eotech.

Not trying to be a dick.

But Mudbug is really winning my respect with his determination on this issue.

Quoted: Not trying to be a dick. But Mudbug is really winning my respect with his determination on this issue.

As long as you understand (Hell, maybe I'm not being clear) that I have never claimed there aren't problems. I have never claimed that the Eotech is the best for everyone, and that it's kicks aimpoint ass. Hell, the only real Eotech praise I have given is my one post refuting the claims that Eotech users are range weinies, plinkers.

My only purpose for being in any of these threads is that I saw a small group of people that have seen the problems the Eotech is having, and they are actively trying to bash it into the ground. There are four of them that show up every time they read the word Eotech to bash and bash. Isn't it odd that I knew the four names to put in the list and here they all are, in an eotech thread, doing the same thing they have been doing for weeks.

Quoted: Isn't it odd that I knew the four names to put in the list and here they all are, in an eotech thread, doing the same thing they have been doing for weeks.

We're just trying to worn our fellow Arfcommers of all the problems Eotech has been having. This is so they can make an informed decision. I don't want to see others dump $ down the toliet like I did on 3 crappy rev F Eotechs, that eat batteries.

Honestly, do you really think Eotech is as every bit reliable and trouble free as Aimpoint?

Quoted: Honestly, do you really think Eotech is as every bit reliable and trouble free as Aimpoint?

I would rather not participate when the other person isn't even trying.

Quoted: The only two RDS suitable for real world use are Aimpoints and EO's. I shoot both Aimpoint/ EO equally well. However, battery life and durability slants me to the Aimpoint. Regardless of the sight, the bottom line is that the sight is a tool, as is the gun, and the shooter is thye weapon.

I agree totally with everything I've taken from your post above.  

They are both great optics:  it's like comparing Ford and Chevy.  I hope my 512, with time, will prove to be a worthy optic.  And by worthy all I want is that it turns on when I grab it out of the safe or truck:  I am by no means a high speed low drag operator

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Quoted: I would rather not participate when the other person isn't even trying.

Quoted: Question? The topic asked to compare EOtech to Aimpoint and ACOG. I see several (same old) answers about Aimpoint, however very little about ACOG. I was wondering how many people show up in a carbine class with ACOG's, and how they(both sight&student) end up faring. Thank you, Bob.

The ACOG- in any of its permutations- is an excellent telescope. It is rugged and dependable, especially in the TA31F/ RCO model.
The company is strong and stands behind the product, and the staff are real deal guys with a lot of experience.

Absent the military, we see few in class. The reason is that we teach a class that is from contact to 50m (few ranges can support anything past that, and that is where most of the existing training is lacking).

The downsides are multiple, but generally mitigated with training.
The reticle is complicated.
The viewing plane is cluttered
The mount sucks
It is difficult to use indoors or within 50m.

In every mil class we have taught, the user unit had little- if any- experience with the RCO.
In typical USMC fashion, they will take two Marines who shot Expert on the Qual course and send them to Div Schools or Commercial schools for the RCO.
They are expected to come back and train the unit.
Our experience is that it doesn't work.
In one class the "instructor" stated that the eye relief was 6".
Sigh....

As the guys at Trijicon state, the user needs a lot of time/ training to get it right, and many don't get it.

Using the Larue mount is a major plus.
Placing a flip up Obj lens cover works well for the close fight. It eliminates the conflict between magnified optic w/ strong eye and actual vision with non dominate eye.
The reticle will most always be too dim for most interior work (the OM states to wait 10 min for you eyes to acclimate.....)

As stated above, it isn't for anyone, but in certain environments (OEF for example) it has many advantages.

I have two of them, and find them to be overall excellent, but find the RDS to be superior for CQB/ CQC.

Quoted: Question? The topic asked to compare EOtech to Aimpoint and ACOG. I see several (same old) answers about Aimpoint, however very little about ACOG. I was wondering how many people show up in a carbine class with ACOG's, and how they(both sight&student) end up faring. Thank you, Bob.

The ACOG- in any of its permutations- is an excellent telescope. It is rugged and dependable, especially in the TA31F/ RCO model.
The company is strong and stands behind the product, and the staff are real deal guys with a lot of experience.

Absent the military, we see few in class. The reason is that we teach a class that is from contact to 50m (few ranges can support anything past that, and that is where most of the existing training is lacking).

The downsides are multiple, but generally mitigated with training.
The reticle is complicated.
The viewing plane is cluttered
The mount sucks
It is difficult to use indoors or within 50m.

In every mil class we have taught, the user unit had little- if any- experience with the RCO.
In typical USMC fashion, they will take two Marines who shot Expert on the Qual course and send them to Div Schools or Commercial schools for the RCO.
They are expected to come back and train the unit.
Our experience is that it doesn't work.
In one class the "instructor" stated that the eye relief was 6".
Sigh....

As the guys at Trijicon state, the user needs a lot of time/ training to get it right, and many don't get it.

Using the Larue mount is a major plus.
Placing a flip up Obj lens cover works well for the close fight. It eliminates the conflict between magnified optic w/ strong eye and actual vision with non dominate eye.
The reticle will most always be too dim for most interior work (the OM states to wait 10 min for you eyes to acclimate.....)

As stated above, it isn't for anyone, but in certain environments (OEF for example) it has many advantages.

I have two of them, and find them to be overall excellent, but find the RDS to be superior for CQB/ CQC.