As part of my drive to upgrade my incandescent flashlights to LEDs, I'm experimenting with some of the less expensive upgrades, as I just don't have the budget for a handful of Malkoffs. www.dealextreme.com is a popular site at CandlePowerForum (CPF) for their inexpensive drop-ins and DIY upgrade components, so it seemed like a good place to start.

They've got a mind-numbing assortment of drop-ins, and it's not always clear what's different between them, so I went with some of the CPF recommendations. I ended up with a Seoul drop-in and one of their cheap multi-function Cree flashlights, which someone on CPF suggested was a P60 drop-in and donor body. It turns out it's not P60 compatible, but it's not a bad utility light for the money. I've got a few more lights on the way, and will compare them when they get here.

For this comparison, I used these lights.
- Surefire G2 with DX 4068 3W Seoul drop-in ($12.54 for the drop-in)
www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4068
- Surefire G2 with Surefire P61 120 lumen incandescent bulb ($18 for the bulb, 20 minute runtime on 2 CR123 batteries)
- DX 5925 Trustfire TR-C2 5 mode light with Cree LED ($17.10 for the whole light)
www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5925
- G&R Weaponlight, Surefire Z32 bezel, with a Malkoff M60 235 lumen drop-in ($60 for the drop-in. 80+ minute runtime on 2 CR123 batteries)

The lights:


And the heads:


The G2 can be a tricky light to upgrade. It's got a metal tube inside the body that conducts the battery current, since the body is plastic, and not all drop-ins make good contact with this strip. Also, the plastic head doesn't conduct heat away from the drop-in well, and they can be damaged if they overheat. This was one reason I got a multi-function drop-in, as it can be run at lower power levels for a longer time.

The DX 4068 drop-in, like many P60 drop-ins, isn't a perfect fit in the G2, and leaves a characteristic gap between the head and body when it's screwed down. Some people put an o-ring on to fill the gap, but it's not required except for aesthetics. It also worked intermittently when I first tried it, and I figured out the spring wasn't going into the body far enough to contact the metal strip. On a whim, I pulled the spring off, reversed it, and it worked fine. It's not as tight on the head now, but when it's screwed down, it's held firmly against it.

Once it's in and working, it looked pretty durn good for a $13 drop-in. It's very bright, has a decent color, good throw, and decent spill, and outperforms the P61 module handily. It's not as good as the Malkoff, but it's also 1/5 the price. Time will tell how well it holds up, but it's looking good so far.

Here's what the gap looks like:


Next is the Trustfire TR-C2 flashlight, which has an o-ring sealed metal body, a somewhat flimsy pocket clip, and 5 modes of operation - low, medium, high, strobe, and SOS. It's not at all compatible with the P60 - the drop-in is too long to work in the G2, a G2 drop-in is too short and rattles around in the TR-C2, and the head and body aren't interchangeable with Surefire.

DX is not too great on technical specs, and they don't specify any of the lumen levels, runtime, how to operate it, or any of that techie stuff. With this design, one click of the tailcap turns on the next mode, another click turns it off, and it sequences through the 5 modes as you turn it on and off. You can also soft-click when it's on to cycle through the modes. This is a pretty big pain, as turning off the light briefly and switching back to the same setting requires cycling through the other 4, including the rather annoying strobe setting. The low setting would be useful for close-up work without wiping out night vision too badly and would conserve batteries, but it's a very tight spot, and not necessarily a good multi-task utility light.

The strobe setting, which is at max output, is supposed to help disorient an adversary, but having to cycle through a bunch of settings to get there isn't very tactical, and I'm not sure this is bright enough to really be effective for that (though it would certainly give you a headache after a while). In hindsight, a simple 3 level sequence would be much better for routine use. This isn't a particularly tactical light in general, as there's no soft-on on the switch - it's either click on/click off, or switch modes.

This one is also bright with decent color. The spot is a good bit tighter and stronger than on the drop-in, and it has more throw and spill as a result, but with a more abrupt transition. It's much easier to lose sight of things outside the primary beam spot. Again, a pretty good performer for the money, if it holds up. One of the weak points on inexpensive flashlights is often the switch, which is where a drop-in with a Surefire body can be a better bet.


For the beamshots, I kept the camera on manual with all settings the same for all shots, and white balance set for daylight. I increased the exposure over my last set of beamshots, as I had set it for good exposure on the Malkoff, which made the P61 look like it was running on half-dead batteries. This exposure made the P61 look better, but it still pales in comparison to the LEDs.

Note that the Malkoff still kicks butt on all of them, with a better throw, better spill, better color, and a smooth transition that is rare on drop-ins. It's clearly the cream of the crop, but for the price, it's hard to fault the others.

Here are the first beamshots:

DX 4068 at 7 yards:


P61 at 7 yards:


Trustfire at 7 yards - low:


Trustfire at 7 yards - medium:


Trustfire at 7 yards - high:


Malkoff at 7 yards:



And the next set of beamshots:

DX 4068 at 20 yards:


P61 at 20 yards:


Trustfire at 20 yards - low:


Trustfire at 20 yards - medium:


Trustfire at 20 yards - high:


Malkoff at 20 yards:

is that the malkoff q5 230 lumen dropin?  seems the other dropins didn't do too shabby at those ranges.

Yep, that's it, and yes, the others perform pretty impressively for the money.

The Malkoff has better color, but the cheap drop-ins are getting pretty durn good too - there's a lot less blue in them than there used to be.  

2 big differences in the Malkoff are construction quality and beam quality.  It's clearly more solid and better made than the DX modules, and it has a beam quality that nobody is matching yet, for whatever reason.  It's mostly the way the central spot transitions into spill without a sharp change, and provides both good peripheral illumination and lots of throw in the same unit.

If you compare those last 2 pics, the brightness of the $17 light is pretty close to the Malkoff, partly because it's got a tighter, hotter central spot, but the Malkoff illuminates the peripheral areas better, like the side of the house and the shadows to the left of the potted tree.  Personally, I don't like the spotlight effect of the inexpensive drop-ins as much (though some prefer it), which is one reason I sprang for the Malkoff in the first place.

Is that worth 5x the cost of the DX?  Hard to say - it depends on how important the smooth beam transition, better color, and quality assembly are.

Now that I've played with both some, I've decided the DX drop-ins are like Chinese scopes - they work, they're nearly as good as the name-brand stuff in a lot of ways, but quality control is a bit hit-and-miss, and reliability is unproven.  The name-brand drop-ins, like the Malkoff and the Surefire conversions, are like Leupolds - good names behind them, better construction, and more confidence that they'll work when you need them to.  Is a Leupold Mk4 worth 4x the cost of a DMS-1, and a S&B Short Dot worth 3x the cost of the Mk4?  Everyone's got their cost vs benefit sweet spot.

Regarding the G2, I received another high-output drop-in - a 270 lumen ebay Chinese module this time - and it didn't work in the G2 either, even with the smaller end of the spring in the body.

Comparing to the P60/61, Malkoff, and Wolfeyes modules, the Chinese modules have definitely bigger springs that don't fit down into the body of the G2 to contact the metal tube.  I made a Malkoff-style adapter ring out of brass wire I had on hand (the Malkoff adapter is for the Z32 style shock heads, and is too small for the G2), and it works fine now.  I'll make a few more up out of copper wire and solder them to see how that works out.  You could probably cut the last coil off of a dead P60 lamp and use that as well, but I don't have a dead one on hand to try.

I'll be reviewing this new drop-in soon, and will put some pics up of the adapter ring if it works well on all my G2s.

sounds great.  could you compare them at greater distances next time to compare throw?  

More distance it a bit of a problem - that's as far as my backyard goes!

I've got a park up the street, but it's fairly well lit at night, so it's hard to get a good comparison, and it takes a good bit more time to haul the gear up there.  I'm about to run pics on a few new lights, so let me play around with it.

My neighbor's a flashlight geek too, and he got the big Malkoff drop-in for his Maglight recently, so maybe we can set up something going across the street.  

that's cool.  i've read on candlepowerforums that some p60 dropins were able to light up targets at 100 yards.  i've tried with my malkoff q5 and would say that i'm able to easily identify targets up to 80 yards, but then again i have lots of ambient lighting from street lights and neighbors.  

does this look sufficient to light up targets 100yards away?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=185776&highlight=malkoff&page=2

OK, here's the next comparison.



I got another P60 drop-in from ebay - this one listed as " 270 lumens CREE Q5 LED Bulb for Surefire 6P 9P G2 E2 Z2" from chinaqualitygoods.
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250216626439&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=015

It was $21 shipped. Their email communications were good, and shipping was reasonably fast. The listing says 180-270 lumens, which means they're buying the cheaper bins, which aren't tested for a tighter output spec. If you bought 4 from them, you could expect all of them to have somewhat different outputs. There's no runtime spec, but at 450-600 mA, you could expect to get well over an hour from it.

This is another drop-in with a problematic fit in the G2, due to the larger spring diameter (it also had the gap that virtually all the inexpensive drop-ins seem to have). It wouldn't work at all until I made an adapter ring and put it between the top battery and the head, then it worked fine. I used 16 gauge brass wire and soldered the ends. I formed it on a pool cue, since I couldn't find my ring mandrel , but it turns out a CR123 battery is a perfect size for forming the adapter if you use copper instead of the springier brass wire.

This one was impressively bright, and seems whiter than the DX Seoul drop-in pictured above. It's got a tighter, brighter central spot with a bit of a dark ring around it and a good bit more spill. It looks like it would have good throw at longer distances, compared to the more diffused lights.

The ebay head compared to a P60:









This one shows the spring size mismatch that causes the G2 problem:




Fenix P2D CE

While I was at it, I took pics of a Fenix P2D CE, which is a single CR123 everyday carry (EDC) multi-mode light. The Fenix is also impressive for its size and flexibility. It's not perfect, and there's not a lot of history on long-term use for these, but it's very handy for a compact light. I bought this one used from a calgunner for $44 shipped. Normally, they go for around $55 new, and the new higher output version goes for around $62 shipped.

The Fenix has 6 modes. One click of the tailcap turns it on in the beginning mode, then partial presses cycle through the remaining modes. Turning it off, then on within 2 seconds will also cycle to the next mode. Turning it off for more than 2 seconds resets it to the beginning mode.

With the bezel turned partway back from full tightness (general mode), it goes 9 lumens (30 hrs) -> 40 lumens (5.5 hrs) -> 80 lumens (2 hrs) -> SOS. With the bezel tight (turbo mode), it goes 135 lumens (1 hr) -> Strobe.

Personally, I don't care much for the strobe and SOS modes, and I'd like it to go low-medium-high-turbo in one mode, then SOS-strobe in the other, but it's not bad because it resets after 2 seconds off, so you never have to go to one of the blinky modes if you don't want.

The aluminum body is slim and a bit too smooth and slippery. It's knurled at one end, but the knurling is pretty useless. It's also got flats in the middle of the body, but they're too low to keep it from rolling, so they're presumably there for appearance only. If your hands are big, it's not too ergonomic when it comes to working the tailcap, but that'll be true for most small lights. Also, there's no obvious feel for which end is which, as there is with the G2 style where the head is larger, so it can take a bit of fumbling in the dark to get it oriented.

One nice touch is a glow-in-the-dark ring around the reflector that charges up while the light is on. I thought this would be useless, but found myself using it several times to help find the light when I thought I was done with it and set it down in the dark. It doesn't glow for too long, but it works well for a short while after the light's turned off.

Overall, it's quite a nice light, if a bit expensive. The beam is broad and smooth, with the good center and smooth spill you need for a general task light, the 4 intensity levels are very useful for tasks where a tac light would dazzle you hopelessly (like reading a map), and you get extended runtime to boot. The light's a bit blue, but not too bad. Hopefully the build quality is good, as there's not a lot of warranty info on the Fenix lights, compared to, say, Streamlight.

There's a new version out with a more powerful LED, and I'd be willing to bet it's a bit whiter too, as that's the trend in the new generation lights.

Here are the beamshots:

The Ebay drop-in at 7 yards:


The Fenix on low at 7 yards


The Fenix on medium at 7 yards


The Fenix on high at 7 yards


The Fenix on turbo at 7 yards


The Ebay drop-in at 20 yards:


The Fenix on low at 20 yards


The Fenix on medium at 20 yards


The Fenix on high at 20 yards


The Fenix on turbo at 20 yards

hey, i carry a fenix p2drb100 as a daily.  the ebay drop in looks pretty good.  have you thought about getting the surefire aluminum head to help dissipate the head buildup from the dropin?  the new g2l'a are coming with the aluminum bezels.

Yeah, I'm liking the Fenix pretty well as an EDC or glove box light.  It's not tac-light bright, but it's plenty bright enough for most tasks.  I'm thinking I'll put a bit of grip tape on the forward bezel.  You can also get an AA barrel for it, which would go well in the earthquake kit as an option.

The G2L aluminum bezel is tempting, but I've got a half-dozen lights to upgrade, and a somewhat limited budget.  At the rate the industry is moving ahead, I figure a little patience will see this stuff dropping in price.  There are clone heads available, as well, and they seem less critical than the switch or drop-in.  Another thing to test...

gotcha.  it's always the problem of too many toys, not enough money.

Thanks for posting your review!

I need to get one of those Malkoff drop-in lamps!

Yeah, Nice Review!. For the Money and availability - the Ebay drop in looks not to be a bad choice.

As a matter of fact, I just bought oneh Can't wait for them to be delivered. Now I just have to decide how I want to mount it to my Bushmaster M4

Yeah, that discount ebay 6P with the drop-in would be a pretty nice setup for the money.  If I didn't have 4 or 5 G2s to upgrade, I'd buy one!

Well, a bit more feedback on the Fenix P2D CE. I've been carrying it, and it's not optimal for pocket carry, IMO.

First off, it's a bit bulky and heavy for me, even though it's a small light, and the lanyard gets tangled on other stuff, depending on what pocket I carry it in. My real EDC light is a Photon on my keychain, and is fine for most of my needs.

Still, it's been very handy, and I've been using it a lot at work, where I frequently wear a bunny suit in a cleanroom, and usually carry a mini Maglite (nice lights get stolen from the belt pouches on the hangers). When I need a light there, I usually just crank it up to turbo mode, and it's much better than the Maglite when in the bowels of industrial equipment.

Since I'm wearing thin latex gloves, the slickness and lack of texture, coupled with the small size, can be a bit of a problem, so I put some grip tape on it. Bad move. The tape is too aggressive, scratched some glasses that I had in the same pouch, and scratches up other stuff in my pocket. I took it off after a few days.

Anyway, the big problem has been that there's no lockout on the tailcap. Three times this week, it's turned on when I pushed it in my pocket or in the holster. In the holster, you can see that it's on if you look, but I don't want another piece of gear on my belt. It doesn't get hot like an incandescent, so I never notice until I take it out and try to switch it on - dead...

Also, the luminous o-ring came out at some point, and I found it wandering loose in my pocket. Now the lens rattles in the head, and I haven't figured out how to put it back in yet. It looks like it must fit in the groove for the lens, but there's not a ton of room there (though I haven't tried hard yet).

There's some good news, though. It runs very nicely on batteries that are nearly useless in an incandescent light, or ones that I've pulled from lights that I'm about to test and want fresh batteries in. It runs happily on partially discharged batteries, which you want to keep out of high-drain incan lights.

After it's run the battery down, leaving it off (if you can figure out which click is off) for a while lets the battery recover enough to get a few minutes of light out of it (with the battery down to 1.7 V!). It still switches modes, blinks/strobes, but the brightness is the same (dim) for all the settings.

My experience so far is that it's not quite ready for prime time. It's a great little light, with maybe too many features, but the ergonomics, build quality, and lockout all need work. I'd be totally pleased with it for $25, but at $50, it's a marginal value. It'll probably move to the glove compartment, where these problems aren't likely to show up. It's too expensive for the earthquake kits, as I'd need 4 of them for starters. I'll wait for something better for the money, and keep my little TwinTasks for now.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by Streamlight and Surefire. Hopefully, they'll continue to improve these over the next generations.

Is there a hour of use test for these diferent lights.  I know the new surefire bulb runs for 11 hours on two batteries as opposed to 1.  Any input for this thank you.  

I haven't done any runtime testing yet.  There are people doing it over at candlepowerforum, but it's hard to keep track of the cheap drop-ins, because there are so many of them.

With 2 CR123s, the Malkoff drop-in is rated at 1.5+ hours (Malkoff tends to be conservative) at 780 mA and 235+ lumens, and the ebay drop-in is rated at 450-600 mA for 180-270 lumens (quality control isn't as tight for these).  If you trust the ebay vendor numbers and call it 550 mA, that would give you 2.1 hours runtime.

The life of CR123s isn't linear with current draw and light output, as seen by the lifetime of the P60 (60 minutes at 65 lumens) and P61 (20 minutes at 120 lumens).  

I can measure the current draw pretty easily, so that's probably worth doing, as it gives a reasonable indicator of lifetime, even if it's not linear.

Surefire's 11 hour runtime is for the 80 lumen P60L.  I don't know if that's emitter lumens (at the bulb) or actual light out the reflector (rule of thumb is this is 65-70% of the emitter lumens).  If it's emitter lumens, this would give it about the same output as the standard P60.  When they come out with the P61L, that'll be easier to compare to the Malkoff and other high-output drop-ins.

I'm not sure Surefire's got all their data straight, as they show the same 11 hour runtime for the P60L in the 9P light, which has 3 cells, and should get roughly half again as much runtime.  The output is the same, since LED modules run regulated, and have the same output/current draw for any input voltage until it drops below the minimum.

I'm sure this has all been covered over at CPF, but it's a challenge to wade through all the info over there, and I don't try too often...

Hey Maxicon, I didn't want to start a new thread to take away from your top billinghi-jack. Yep it's bright! Like you posted, it's rated at 180-270 lumens /operating voltage is 3.7v - 9v. I wonder if this means that the bulb puts out 270 with 9v? here are some pics this afternoon (inside). I'll post more pics of some outside night beamshots.  I joined CPF last week - lot's of info!


Surefire 6P
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/sbninja/P3210028.jpg


Surefire 6p P60 next to Ebay 270 lumens Cree Q5 Drop in
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/sbninja/P3210026.jpg

Beamshot of Surefire 6p with original p60 xenon bulb.(Sorry for the messy Garagehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/sbninja/P3210035.jpg

Beamshot of Surefire 6p with Ebay Cree Q5
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/sbninja/P3210036.jpg

Yeah, that's much better than the P60, especially in the fringes!  I've been testing mine as a bedstand light, and it's too bright for 2 AM bump-in-the-night checks - it wipes out my night vision if I hit a close wall with it.  Still, I love the brightness for the money.

The drop-ins are regulated, so they have the same output for any voltage input until it drops below the minimum, then they start dimming.  If you go over 9V, it risks damaging it, and if you drop under 3.7, it'll start to dim, but between those ranges, it should be the same.  It's another plus over incandescents, where the output drops with the battery voltage.  

I believe the rating range means the minimum they'll guarantee is 180, but the best of the batch will go up to 270, and any random one will be somewhere in the middle of that range.  Mine seems about as bright as my Malkoff, which would put it in the 230-ish range, though it's got a tighter hot spot.  It's hard to measure total output accurately.

My garage is much worse than yours, but I won't post pics...

Here are pics of the outside night beamshots.

This is the area during daylight.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/sbninja/P3210031.jpg

Ranged at 33 yards
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/sbninja/P3210030.jpg

Surefire 6P with original P60 xenon bulb.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/sbninja/P3220037.jpg

Surefire 6P with Ebay 270 lumen Cree Q5 Drop-in
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/sbninja/P3220039.jpg

Bump!

Great thread guys.  I just ordered a Cree for my G2 at bugoutgear.com  Hopefully it will work w/o modification.