Any storys about them bending barrel nut teeth?

I allready have a DPMS wrench and a Bushmaster heavy duty wrench and they bend teeth.

Take your GI style barrel nut wrenches, and throw them far.  As an Armorer I used to rebarrel more M16's in day than most people do in a lifetime.   I bought myself  the Smith Enteprises barrel wrench from Brownells.  It engages about 3/4 of the barrel nut teeth.  

Your technique could also be to blame.  Make sure you push the wrench in evenly, as the slip ring likes to push the wrench out of engagement.

Semper Fi

Ok, thanks for the info.

Did the GI wrench mess the teeth up bad, or is it just harder to use?

The GI wrench only engages 3 teeth, so instead of having the force evenly distributed on about half to two thirds of the teeth, it's all being put on 3 teeth.  I agree with USMC2111 - there could be something wrong with your technique.  Are you bending teeth installing barrels or removing them?  If you're installing, make sure you're using a generous coating of moly grease on the threads.  If you're removing, try chilling the upper in a freezer before trying to remove the nut.  I haven't bent any teeth with my Bushmaster wrench.

Quoted: The GI wrench only engages 3 teeth, so instead of having the force evenly distributed on about half to two thirds of the teeth, it's all being put on 3 teeth.  I agree with USMC2111 - there could be something wrong with your technique.  Are you bending teeth installing barrels or removing them?  If you're installing, make sure you're using a generous coating of moly grease on the threads.  If you're removing, try chilling the upper in a freezer before trying to remove the nut.  I haven't bent any teeth with my Bushmaster wrench.

I'm bending teeth installing them. I use lots of Moly grease and a torque wrench set to 31 ft lbs. I don't go over that limit. I'm realy sure that I'm seating the wrench wright.

I've narrowed what the problem might be down to either the Barrel wrench or the Torque wrench.

The nut fits loose in both wrenches and the wrench only grabs the tips of the teeth on the nut, causeing the weak point of the teeth to bend. Or the torque wrench could be a pile of s#!t.

FWIW When I switched to useing the DPMS wrench from the Bushmaster wrench the bending was less noticable...

Quoted: Take your GI style barrel nut wrenches, and throw them far.  As an Armorer I used to rebarrel more M16's in day than most people do in a lifetime.   I bought myself  the Smith Enteprises barrel wrench from Brownells.  It engages about 3/4 of the barrel nut teeth.   Your technique could also be to blame.  Make sure you push the wrench in evenly, as the slip ring likes to push the wrench out of engagement. Semper Fi

I bought a DPMS wrench before getting my AR. I was shooting the shit with one of the guys in the fun shop when I picked the AR up, and mentioned I planned to put a DD FF tube on it. He asked if I had a Smith Enterprises, just like that. I thought he was talking about a tube manufacturer, and repeated my intention. He clarified and gave me the item#. He tossed me two free LaBelle mags in the bags after giving me this advise. Return customer indeed. When I gently placed each wrench on the barrel nut, the area of engagement was worlds apart. The DPMS is now spare steel.

Isn't the Smith wrench and the Bushmaster wrench the same wrench?

You don't go over 31 ft-lb?  How do you get the notch lined up?

Quoted: You don't go over 31 ft-lb?  How do you get the notch lined up?

I just get lucky and it lines up right at that torque..... So far.

Here it comes again - people worried about torque values can't seem to tighten one single nut without damaging things.

Quoted: I'm bending teeth installing them. I use lots of Moly grease and a torque wrench set to 31 ft lbs. I don't go over that limit. I'm realy sure that I'm seating the wrench wright. I've narrowed what the problem might be down to either the Barrel wrench or the Torque wrench.

The problem isn't the wrench - it's you.

When I had similar problems many years ago with my first  AR rebarrel using a 3-pronged GI barrel wrench, I asked a buddy who was a US Army armorer in RVN.  His advice was to throw away the torque wrench and replace it with a breaker bar.  His exact words were "Watch the barrel nut, not the wrench!!"

Torque on an AR barrel nut in meaningless - what's important is alignment of the gas tube notch.  Instead tighten it by feel - spin the barrel nut by hand until it stops, then lean on the wrench until the next gas tube notch lines up, and then stop.

These days I use a combo wrench from Bushmaster with a handle built in and it works great!

Quoted: Here it comes again - people worried about torque values can't seem to tighten one single nut without damaging things. Quoted: I'm bending teeth installing them. I use lots of Moly grease and a torque wrench set to 31 ft lbs. I don't go over that limit. I'm realy sure that I'm seating the wrench wright. I've narrowed what the problem might be down to either the Barrel wrench or the Torque wrench. The problem isn't the wrench - it's you. When I had similar problems many years ago with my first  AR rebarrel using a 3-pronged GI barrel wrench, I asked a buddy who was a US Army armorer in RVN.  His advice was to throw away the torque wrench and replace it with a breaker bar.  His exact words were "Watch the barrel nut, not the wrench!!" Torque on an AR barrel nut in meaningless - what's important is alignment of the gas tube notch.  Instead tighten it by feel - spin the barrel nut by hand until it stops, then lean on the wrench until the next gas tube notch lines up, and then stop. These days I use a combo wrench from Bushmaster with a handle built in and it works great!

Homo_Erectus is BACK!

Where you been man?  We missed ya.

Quoted: Isn't the Smith wrench and the Bushmaster wrench the same wrench?

Yes.

Quoted: Here it comes again - people worried about torque values can't seem to tighten one single nut without damaging things. Quoted: I'm bending teeth installing them. I use lots of Moly grease and a torque wrench set to 31 ft lbs. I don't go over that limit. I'm realy sure that I'm seating the wrench wright. I've narrowed what the problem might be down to either the Barrel wrench or the Torque wrench. The problem isn't the wrench - it's you. When I had similar problems many years ago with my first  AR rebarrel using a 3-pronged GI barrel wrench, I asked a buddy who was a US Army armorer in RVN.  His advice was to throw away the torque wrench and replace it with a breaker bar.  His exact words were "Watch the barrel nut, not the wrench!!" Torque on an AR barrel nut in meaningless - what's important is alignment of the gas tube notch.  Instead tighten it by feel - spin the barrel nut by hand until it stops, then lean on the wrench until the next gas tube notch lines up, and then stop. These days I use a combo wrench from Bushmaster with a handle built in and it works great!

If I do it how you say to will it shoot loose? It just dosen't seem like it would be enough torque.

Also what do you mean when you say to "spin the barrel nut on by hand", do you mean to just use your hands?

I just want to get it done right. I'm sick of takeing the FSB off to replace them dam Barrel nuts!    

Quoted: Quoted: Isn't the Smith wrench and the Bushmaster wrench the same wrench? Yes.

   

I thought so.

Thanks.

If I do it how you say to will it shoot loose? It just dosen't seem like it would be enough torque. Also what do you mean when you say to "spin the barrel nut on by hand", do you mean to just use your hands? I just want to get it done right. I'm sick of takeing the FSB off to replace them dam Barrel nuts!

Spin the barrel nut on hand tight and then use the wrench to tighten to the next slot so that the gas tube can pass through.  You are only going to have one slot that lines up when tight.  The barrel nut is not going to back off with the gas tube acting as a stop.

The Smith wrench can be used to install FF tubes - the Bushmaster wrench has the extra smaller diameter ring between the teeth and the barrel that won't go over a FF tube.  They are not the same.

My friend and I have the same wrench. I got mine from Bushy, he got his from Brownells. My bushy I got in a few weeks ago (to replace my defective DPMS wrench) is different from the one you are describing. It can be used to install a FF tube. I think they have changed their supplier.

That would be great - the bushy wrench is cheaper.  The picture that Bushmaster has on the website still shows the one with the inner ring.

Quoted: If I do it how you say to will it shoot loose? It just dosen't seem like it would be enough torque.

It won't shoot loose.  The barrel nut can't turn with the gas tube in place.  I've done over 130 AR barrel jobs, and only had a barrel loosen up once - and that was on an orignal factory Colt 6500 A2.  After 5 years and more than 10,000 rounds, I noticed the barrel wobbled in the upper a little.  Of course I kept shooting it for a few more weeks.  I fixed it by removing gas tube and turning the barrel nut until the next notch lined up.  No barrel I've ever installed has ever "shot loose".

It just dosen't seem like it would be enough torque.

Worrying over barrel nut torque is due to a complete lack of understanding of just how the Stoner gas system works.  Why do you need to apply a whole lot of torque to an assembly that is under no firing stress whatsoever?  Besides being a guide for the bolt carrier to move in, the upper receiver basically is just a glorified rear sight mount.  Why do you need to torque your rear sight mount down to 30+ ft.lbs.?

It's funny, because the thin-walled, flimsy buffer tube takes a whole lot more firing stress than the heavy, forged upper receiver when the buffer slams into the back end, but no one torques it down to 30-80 ft.lbs.  Everybody just takes a Crescent wrench and tightens it by hand - but not too tight because you don't want to strip out the fine threads.

Also what do you mean when you say to "spin the barrel nut on by hand", do you mean to just use your hands?

Yup, your hand.  You know that thing you've been choking the chicken with all these years?    Well, now your hand is your second favorite tool and it's time to use it.

I just want to get it done right. I'm sick of takeing the FSB off to replace them dam Barrel nuts!

If you did it my way then you would've only done it once and never had to remove a front sight base.  I used a have a long write up in the archives that told how to mount an AR barrel (and line up the front sight!), but it looks like it dropped off the server due to old age.  Guess I'll have to post it again.

Quoted: Homo_Erectus is BACK! Where you been man?  We missed ya.

Geez - this place has fallen apart without me.  

Thanks for the tip.

This actually worked great for me because I am impatient as hell. My local gunshop only had the GI Wrench and no action block, so I did as recommended above and was able to hold the rifle between my knees with enough force to get the next notch to line up.

She's a done deal now.

I didn't understand the reasoning behind the high torque either, but then again, I am one to follow directions when it is something that I have never done before. Unless of course I learn a better (not just easier) way from someone with more experience.

Hey LWUSMC,

go shoot the hell out of that thing and tell us if the barrel comes loose. If you can Bumpfire a few mags that would be even better.

HE,

I think I'm going to try it your way. So I just go hand tight and then to the next notch and I'm done and thats it right?      

No prob cliff.

This is going to be a duty rifle, so it is going to get about 1000 rnds before I put it in the car.

I just have to find out if it likes Wolf before I order a case.

Quoted: HE, I think I'm going to try it your way. So I just go hand tight and then to the next notch and I'm done and thats it right?

Yup, that's it!  I use a short (~2-3") stub of an old gas tube stuck in the bolt carrier key and push on the back of the bolt carrier while tightening the barrel nut.  You'll know when the notch in the barrel nut lines up because the gas tube stub will pop through.  It should be able to slide in and out with no problems.

But before you spin on the barrel nut, make sure the front sight is straight up.  I can't tell you how many FrankenARs I've seen where the front sight is canted over to the side and the rear sight had to be cranked 20 or 30 clicks to zero it in.

But this is easy to fix.  First, stick the barrel in the upper and see if it rotates where the front sight looks straight.  If not, take a jeweler's file and very slowly open up the side of the notch in the upper receiver.  Even if you didn't have to file, you then need to tighten up the notch so the barrel can't move while you crank on the barrel nut.  The way you do it is with the barrel in the upper receiver, take a punch and small hammer and very lightly peen down the threaded area on the loose side of the notch.  Be very careful and tap lightly - it doesn't take much!!  You'll just slightly flatten a small area of threads right next to the barrel pin.

That's it!!  Spin the barrel nut on and you're done!!  Easy, ain't it?  


[Edited to ficks speling misteaks]

Allright sounds easy!

HE, one more question. Why did you stop useing the GI Barrel wrench?  

Quoted: Hey LWUSMC, go shoot the hell out of that thing and tell us if the barrel comes loose. If you can Bumpfire a few mags that would be even better.

Underwater?

Quoted: Underwater?

NAhhh, I'll leave bumping underwater to the experts.

I'll just do it the old fasioned way. 2 to the chest one the the head.

BTT.

Quoted: HE, one more question. Why did you stop useing the GI Barrel wrench?

Because the newer wrenches engage 3/4 of all the teeth, not just three.  Don't get me wrong - once I got rid of the torque wrench and started using a breaker bar, I used a 3-prong GI wrench to swap a lot of barrels.  But you still had to be real careful or else the weld spring would push the pins out of the barrel nut and you'd round teeth.

That combo wrench with the handle built in makes barrel jobs so easy.  

Thanks H_E!

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