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Posted: 5/17/2005 5:58:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Center punch and hammer.
No need to go He-Man on it. Stake from both sides on each screw. Easy as pie. 
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Posted: 6/12/2005 5:35:00 PM EDT
[#2]
I need to stake the key on my new bolt. I usually buy complete b/c assemblies, but I had the parts around to build one. So I dont need to go he-man on it eh? I may use hi temp thread locker in addition to staking. I can't think of any reason not to do this.
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Posted: 6/13/2005 5:33:18 AM EDT
[#3]
High temp, (commonly referred to as "red") Loctite will make it a one shot deal.
If you break a key with red applied, it will be very difficult to remove the key and replace it without damaging the bolt. There is really no need for Loctite on an AR. The only time I use Loctite is for grip screw bushings in 1911s or scope mounts, and then I only use blue. |
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Posted: 6/15/2005 8:20:45 PM EDT
[#4]
What's the right way to get the gas key lined up right so it engages the gas tube without binding?
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Posted: 6/16/2005 5:54:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Buy a good quality bolt carrier and carrier key from a reputable manufacturer, and screw them together. Don't forget to stake the screws.
If you're having problems getting the gas tube and carrier key to line up, the problem is most likely that you have the gas tube slot in the barrel nut just slightly off and it is pushing the gas tube. Use a piece of gas tube to make sure the barrel nut slot and delta pack (weld spring and snap ring) are perfectly aligned and that the gas tube is not being pushed on by any of them as it passes through the receiver. If the barrel nut slot is off, be careful moving it. Use a torque wrench if you plan to tighten it, making sure you don;t exceed 80 ft-lbs. Use a good wrench to turn it, like the DPMS armorer's wrench, or you'll jack up the barrel nut. Good luck. |
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Posted: 6/16/2005 6:18:18 AM EDT
[#6]
make sure to lap the key to the top of the carrier before installing the screws.
I use a busted punch ground to a chisel point as a staking tool.  tighten the screws down firmly, the torque specs are about useless for this application. if you go too tight you do risk snapping off the heads of the cheap screws sold with most low end kits. shoot several rounds then recheck the tightness of the screws. make sure the key is displaced into the grooves in the heads of the screws.  easiest way I've found is to rest the carrier between the slightly opened jaws of a vise. the key rests atop one jaw, the feed rib on the bottom of the carrier rests atop the other. it's a solid background for staking the key. even if the barrel nut is alined properly you may still have to fit the gas tube. often the tubes are off vertically or the key itself isn't parallel to the bore. You can use a large flat bladed screwdriver to adjust the end of the tube. slide the carrier (stripped) into the upper and feel/look/listen for any resistance as the tube enters the key. |
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Posted: 6/16/2005 7:53:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Excellent info, thank you.
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Posted: 6/16/2005 2:52:01 PM EDT
[#8]
you're welcome, you've made the FAQ
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Posted: 6/17/2005 5:49:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Tweak,
Do you use a stone or file to remove the burr from the stakes, or is that not an issue. I usually file the burrs down, but I'm not sure it's necessary. |
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Posted: 6/17/2005 6:16:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Not True, All Loktite will release at 300 degrees with a Propane torch. At 300 degrees, there is no danger of changing the metal or anything like that. I use red on every carrier I have ever put together. FM |
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Posted: 6/17/2005 7:55:39 AM EDT
[#11]
You're just slightly off.
http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/268-EN.PDF " For Disassembly: 1.Where hand tools do not work because of excessive engagement length or large diameters (over 1"), apply localized heat to approximately 250 degrees C (that's 428 F)."  We've already discussed the weak nature of most carrier key screws, so I will close the case on Loctite and carrier key screws now: You don't need it, it's not a good idea. YMMV |
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Posted: 6/18/2005 3:14:44 AM EDT
[#12]
The acceptable limits for stake protrusion are outlined in the 23&P |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 5:51:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Umm, thanks?
I can read a manual, I was asking your opinion. |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 7:00:21 AM EDT
[#14]
I staked mine with a similar tool to Tweaks. I dremeled the crook off an extra Allen wrench, then ground it to a point. Worked great.
I didnt bother to file or grind any off the stakes, didn't need it, runs great.
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Posted: 6/20/2005 7:08:01 AM EDT
[#15]
Not true either. There are literally hundreds of "Loctite" products and not all of them release at 300F. Everybody generalizes Loctite to "red" and "blue" and there are hundreds more applications out there, and some of the others are "red" and some are "blue" |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 1:09:38 AM EDT
[#16]
I have a Bushy Carrier. Can I re-stake it to make sure it won't come loose?
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Posted: 6/24/2005 1:14:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Can you read the part where it says how much protrusion is too much and take corrective action if that is the case with your stakes? Rubicon, Yes you may, are you saying your BFI carrier isn't staked? |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 10:10:24 AM EDT
[#18]
It's staked but I have read many posts around here that BFI doesn't do a good job of staking and they come loose. Looking at them they are just indented on the sides and dont seem to overlap onto the screws.
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Posted: 6/27/2005 6:06:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Tweak,
I can read a manual but I ask the opinion of experts to try and find tricks and deviations from the manuals that work. If you're not into giving out tips and tricks that's fine, if you just follow manuals and don't know any tricks that's fine too. I was just asking, no need for the attitude. BTW, It's a joke dude, don't go flippin' out on me here...  I know you contribute more that just about anybody here, maybe it was a stupid question. |
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Posted: 6/27/2005 7:12:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Why are the torque specs "useless"?
Is it 40 in-lb or not? I have torque wrenches for working on my car. Every fastener has a recommended torque level. I applied Permatex High Strength Red Threadlocker on the gas key screws, torqued them to 40 in-lb, and staked them as best as I could. I find that threadlocker should be ENOUGH in my experience dealing with fasteners on automobiles. Staking is rarely if ever done on a modern automobile. ETA Just checked the TM 23&P, looks like 40 in-lb is the max. |
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Posted: 6/27/2005 7:24:18 AM EDT
[#21]
TM states 35 in lbs, Armalite states 40 inch lbs on there site.
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Posted: 8/23/2005 5:54:35 PM EDT
[#22]
The problem with threadlocker is you will snap off the bolt heads from the shaft if you ever need to remove the key.
Staking secures the head, not the shaft and thus greatly reduces the possibility of a broken carrier key screw. |
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Posted: 8/23/2005 11:31:37 PM EDT
[#23]
and sometimes the snapped off heads of the carrier key screws (why do we call them screws? aren't they bolts?) find their way into the damnedest places inside your AR. can make for an entertaining failure and an even more amusing disassembly.
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Posted: 10/18/2005 11:17:58 PM EDT
[#24]
good info here
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