I'm looking at buying one.  Its has to be black; fixed stock; better than average build quality or top of the line; NJ legal (No flash hider).  I want the ability to mount a smallish red dot such as the Aimpoint T1 or Doc sight.  Under $1k .  For that kind of money I'd want better than average accuracy.

I know nothing but the basic's about them.

So what do you suggest?

J223...

this one...
www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=122&t=497235

vector arms AK with ultimak scope mount.....sink all the money you have left over into mags and ammo


accuracy depends on a few things....can you shoot?  what type of ammo are you using?  conditions, breathing so on.....

My vector with me behind the trigger gets 5 and 6 shot  dime or quarter size groups

they are great builds with a great reputation for quality, and even better customer service backed by a 5 year warranty



if you want to spend between $700-$1000  my suggestions would be

1.  Arsenal Aks......bulgarian rifles(the best)  top shelf stuff

2.  Krebs custom Aks.......Marc Krebs is a great guy who befinately knows what he is doing with an AK.....fantastic builds, and again great customer service


good luck

Quoted: My vector with me behind the trigger gets 5 and 6 shot  dime or quarter size groups

Would that be at 500 meters ... or 1000?

wow if your getting those kind of groups at 500 to 1000meters can you please elaborate on what your secret is??   obviously I am doing something wrong lol, is that with one of your home builds?



50yrds 5 and 6 shot groups.....dime size to quarter size groups


at 100yrds group opens up a bit more and depending on ammo used....so far I have noticed that brown bear is probably the most accurate ammo I have used, not to dirty either....next would be the new Wolf Military classic, followed by the old black box wolf ammo......anything past 200/300 yrds I am using a 308


good luck and post pics when you get it

sounds like you're describing exactly what a converted saiga is with what you want:

Quoted: 50yrds 5 and 6 shot groups.....dime size to quarter size groups

LOL You must have  the extra special "National Match" grade AK.
I never shoot an AK at 50 yards. Anything that close is in pistol range.

well I guess your the man, lol  how can we all be an experienced shooter like yourself?


you sure do like to shit on other peoples threads alot.....you got anything else to say send it in an IM.........anyone have a  dont feed troll pic??


sorry to the OP  

poly, start your own thread if you gotta take a dump.......

to the op, it sounds to me that you need an Arsenal in 5.56....
see HERE.  They are top of the line from what I have seen and read.

Arsenals are definately great rifles.......a little on the high side but definately quality stuff...you get what you pay for

Quoted: well I guess your the man, lol  how can we all be an experienced shooter like yourself?

You're the guy with the INCREDIBLE groups and the super accurate rifle!
I've just been shooting pistols for 30 years and can hit what i need to at 50 yards. That's not a great accomplishment. Almost anyone who practices enough can do that.

Quoted: poly, start your own thread if you gotta take a dump

I didn't notice that your title was moderator or thread policeman.
Feel free to avoid the thread if you're thin skinned and/or offended.

Quoted: Quoted: My vector with me behind the trigger gets 5 and 6 shot  dime or quarter size groups Would that be at 500 meters ... or 1000?

More like FIVE  feet, maybe ...

s man why do't you post about your sub 1 1/2 MOA groups on TOS. I'm sure they'll all get a good laugh.
To the op: Don't spend your time looking for an AK that will shoot  sub 1 1/2 MOA groups. Those rifles are as scarce as hen's teeth.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My vector with me behind the trigger gets 5 and 6 shot  dime or quarter size groups Would that be at 500 meters ... or 1000? More like FIVE  feet, maybe ...

Maybe s'man has trouble with range estimation. It's a difficult skill. Uncle Sugar's Big Green Machine tried to train me to do that but it didn't succeed all that well.
But I can tell the difference between 5 feet and 50 yards!

wow...you really enjoy listening to yourself talk huh? 4 posts back to back in like 20min....to the OP...please diregard the trolls...nobody really pays them much attention but they sure are entertaining lol.....anyways back to the topic at hand




here are a couple groups I saved .....50yrds with my super dooper match accurate AK lol   flyer is first shot followed by 5 shot cluster

first target with brown bear ammo...like I said earlier, very accurate and groups stay pretty tight





2nd target with old black box Wolf ammo...flyer is first shot...groups tend to open up a bit with old style wolf....but still good stuff






like I said it tends to open up a little more at 100yrds, but plenty accurate enough for me, best thing to do is just got out there and practice with different types of ammo, also the aimpoint T1 would be an excellent choice for a red dot.....have seen some great reviews and they seem to cowitness with iron sights(sit very low)

hope it all helps!!

Quoted: More like FIVE  feet, maybe ...

I guess s'man missed dd's post.
Apparently, I'm not the only one who thinks s'man has a credibility problem.

Post those pics of your 50 yard group on TOS.


BTW: I have more than one target with a 5 shot cloverleaf (that's all shots touching ICYDK) from a .45. I suppose I could say I shot the targets at 50 yards.

No one would believe me.

They'd be right.
I'd never say it was a 50 yard target.

yes POLYTHENEPAM again we bow down to your superior knowledge you are obviously the man and a true shooter. LOL


buddy seriously I could care less what you think and seriously dont need to prove myself to you...ever


just because you cant get the same results doesnt mean others cant.....maybe you play those kinds of games...others who actually shoot and practice dont have to but, good try.  Maybe you should actually get off the comp more and out onto the shooting lanes?   practice makes perfect


and please dont ever speak a word about my credibility......I have been on these boards a while and have a +54 rating on E&E......you have zip, zero, nada...dont even go there friend

but like I said......nice try, if ever in my area I will take you shooting and show you a few pointers....maybe you missed something along the way with all your training?  but then again 50yrds is nothing for you...hell you could do the same with a hand gun right? lol  

OH, and I do have some 2 1/2 " groups ... fired at 100yards (measured,not estimated).That's 2 1/2 MOA.
Those were fired from my Type 56 Chinese carbine (you probably call it an SKS). 123 gr IMI bullet, AA1680 powder, new (unfired) IMI cases, Winchester large rifle primers, each charge individually weighed, loaded with RCBS dies on a Pacific single stage press. Those groups were fired off a sandbag rest in 1991. I couldn't duplicate them today if my life depended on it. My eyes aren't what they were 16 years ago.

wow..really.....yawn,  goodnight lol

Quoted: yes POLYTHENEPAM again we bow down to your superior knowledge you are obviously the man and a true shooter. LOL buddy seriously I could care less what you think and seriously dont need to prove myself to you...ever just because you cant get the same results doesnt mean others cant.....maybe you play those kinds of games...others who actually shoot and practice dont have to but, good try.  Maybe you should actually get off the comp more and out onto the shooting lanes?   practice makes perfect and please dont ever speak a word about my credibility......I have been on these boards a while and have a +54 rating on E&E......you have zip so dont even go their but like I said......nice try, if ever in my area I will take you shooting and show you a few pointers....maybe you missed something along the way with all your training?  but then again 50yrds is nothing for you...hell you could do the same with a hand gun right? lol

Post those "50 yard" groups on TOS.
We'll all have a good laugh. dd is still laughing.
"don't go their"?
I'm not sure, 'cause I don't hang around the mall, but I think you mean "Don't go there", don't you?

I don't know what a rating on "E&E" is.  When I was a young man, E&E was escape and evasion. That was evading the enemy or escaping if you were captured. You can't possibly mean that. You wouldn't know anything about that.
Are you speaking of the Equipment Exchange? I don't sell guns or accessories. I build my guns. I buy my accessories. Not necessarily on this board. I'm a member elsewhere, and not, like you just to peddle my wares.

If you want to know about my integrity IM dalesimpson (the BIY mod). He probably remembers the single transaction we engaged in.

While I thank you for your offer to teach me, I really think Uncle Sugar's Big Green Machine and the gentlemen of the NVA have taught me everything I need to know about shooting, including things that I fervently pray you'll never have to learn.

And just so you're not confused, I didn't say I could put 5 .45 bullets in a dime or quarter sized group at 50 yards. I said I could hit what I needed to at that range.
Apparently you need that language translated, so here it is:
I can consistently put 5 shots in a the vital area at 50 yards with all of the .45 pistols I own. That's the result of doing it thousands of times over more than 30 years.
I'll say this again, since you didn't get it the first time: That doesn't make me a great shooter. It means I'm competent.

I build my guns. I buy my accessories

wow...really, again  yawn....

If your dumb then so am I. Welcome to the club. Do you want to be the president, or would you rather be the treasurer. I tried about three times before I got it on. That was BEFORE I found this site. I wasn't smart enough to look on the 'net. I had to figure it out myself.

you build your guns and you spew about all this knowledge...and yet you have no clue how to put a sling on a rifle huh? LOL

thanks..I WILL be laughing at that one for days.....you always seem to put a smile on my face   lol   ok I am done with you now...but thanks for the laughs


dont forget to practice ok.. :)

 Skiddles...check....

Unlike you I don't claim to know everything.
Unlike you I'm not Superman.
Again, I await your post of your super groups on TOS.
If you don't I'll see that they are.
We all need a laugh.
I'm sure it will help when you try to sell another rifle there.

poly....please get a clue and a life friend, this whole shit storm started because you opened your mouth about simple groups....seriously?   I mean....seriously lol



umm....I dont need to post pics of my groups on TOS...I dont even know what the hell your talking about? LOL  but there you have it folks.....Poly says it cant happen so its gotta be fake.  Superman? wtf? lol dude seriously.....go back and read from the beginning, and ask yourself......could this all have been avoided if I kept my mouth shut? hmmmm yup.

I never shoot an AK at 50 yards. Anything that close is in pistol range.

remember that?? LOL




I found Poly on the net lastnight.....you really are tacticool, please share more of your insight with us all......tell us again about your fancy home builds you like to run off at the mouth about all the time.....I am having issues putting my sling on my rifle can you help me??  you look more than qualified.

Quoted: Quoted: 50yrds 5 and 6 shot groups.....dime size to quarter size groups LOL You must have  the extra special "National Match" grade AK.

The bullets are individually manufactured by war orphans, on a lathe lubed with vodka.  The core is depleated uranium, with a 2k gold jacket (best stuff they had)

I have a Jersey friendly Arsenal SAM5S with green furniture I'm looking too let go.
PM sent.



EDT for pic

exactly RS39 totally understand where you are coming from.....which is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier in this thread......accuracy is dependant on many many factors(biggest being the guy behind the rifle) indoor/outdoor? breathing? ammo used? so on and so forth.......pics were taken at a local indoor range 50yrds, and yes my vector is a polish kit, fantastic builds


I apologize to the OP for this thread taking a turn.....will stick to topic at hand, again good luck on what ever you go with, I would go with a 762x39 over 223...main reason being cost of ammo these days......223 is just to crazy right now.



totalabuse....tell me more about that scope??

Quoted: s man why do't you post about your sub 1 1/2 MOA groups on TOS. I'm sure they'll all get a good laugh. To the op: Don't spend your time looking for an AK that will shoot  sub 1 1/2 MOA groups. Those rifles are as scarce as hen's teeth.

2MOA with american eagle ammo

no shit, milled mak 90

Guys what the fuck?  I leave everyone alone for two days and I come home to a mess . After reading some of these posts I'd think there must be a spiked bowl of eggnog sitting around that some of you got into .  

Well - back to the subject.  Hey Totalabuse -- so whats the story about SAM-5's ?  Double stack 7.62 ?  Is that milled or stamped? Never seen one before - looks clean.  Someone asked what caliber I want -- 7.62.

I've been looking around -- what do you guys think about the SAM-7A1R ?  How does the SAM-5 compare?

J223...

Quoted: Well - back to the subject.  Hey Totalabuse -- so whats the story about SAM-5's ?  Double stack 7.62 ?  Is that milled or stamped? Never seen one before - looks clean.  Someone asked what caliber I want -- 7.62. I've been looking around -- what do you guys think about the SAM-7A1R ?  How does the SAM-5 compare? J223...

SAM5S is a milled double stack 223. It is the 223 version of the SAM-7.
If your looking for a 762 an want an Arsenal. Stick with the SAM 7 or SLR101. Basicly the same gun.

EDT- Top SAM5S bottom SLR101S. Both milled both shown with double stack 10 rounders.