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Posted: 11/23/2004 9:30:03 PM EDT
[#1]
How much?
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Posted: 11/23/2004 9:33:15 PM EDT
[#2]
I don't remember the exact price, but it was around $230.
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Posted: 11/23/2004 9:34:33 PM EDT
[#3]
I've never been comfortable w/ the idea of a 12-o'clock being part of the gas tube. If only the would've made a top rail that is distinct from the gas tube...
 I do like the 3-, 9- , & 6-o'clock rails, however. |
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Posted: 11/23/2004 10:00:17 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't understand what you're saying. The 12 rail is the M1, the 3/6/9 are the ACR-2.
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Posted: 11/23/2004 11:00:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Oh yeah, they had some custom rail covers made. Here's a picture.
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Posted: 11/24/2004 5:40:43 AM EDT
[#6]
This is just me talking....but why does everyone want to turn their AK into an AR? I personally don't think that an AK is meant to have all that gear hanging off of it. An AK is a thing of classic beauty and is simplicity itself. I think it should stay that way.
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Posted: 11/24/2004 5:59:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Do any of the Com-Block countries have rail systems for their AK's or AK-74's???
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Posted: 11/24/2004 12:01:09 PM EDT
[#8]
The Serbs have caught on:
www.zastava-arms.co.yu/images/vojni/m21/m21_english.htm  Give the Russians and Bulgarians some time. www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml www.arsenal-bg.com/defense.htm I think the Poles have done some NATOesque stuff now as well. fabrykabroni.pl/En/BERYL_e.htm hem.passagen.se/dadkri/index.htm  I bet the Polish AKs knock the socks off of the Bulgarian and Russian made ones. Poland has an excellent manufacturing base, despite their genetic limitations (cheap shot at JeepCreep)  Give it time. The pictinny rail will take over the free world. There's just too many advantages. themao  Edited to fix pic. |
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Posted: 11/24/2004 1:57:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Yes, I know the ACR-2 doesn't include a top rail - that's my point. I'm not keen on the UltimAK gas tube-based top rail. A lot of heat gets transferred to the optic that way. I also don't have faith in receiver cover rails, which don't provide a stable platform for sight optics. I'd like to see some sort of rail system that incorporates a top rail, much like the system KAC was going to release, but then shelved. A 4-rail system w/ stable top rail that doesn't cook my optics is what I'm searching for. So far, I haven't seen anything that meets those specs. |
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Posted: 11/24/2004 2:14:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for the info but I am glad I didn't wait for the ACR2... $230!!!! Geez... that sounds high... for about $100 less I am very pleased with my set up:
 It's just a standard Ultimak ($85) and the TDi lower handgaurd ($50). As for "cooking" the optic... no problems with the Comp M2. The 12 rail does get very hot. The Aimpoint also gets hot, but not beyond tolerances (nearing 150F). For example, even after rapid firing through a couple mags I can still touch the surface of the optic without burning my skin. Even though the Ultimak would burn my finger. FYI-- I am using the cheap low profile Aimpoint mount too. By the way I did post this question in another thread... the Aimpoint guy said that the temp threashold of the Comp M2 is really for the battery and that the optic itself can handle much hotter temps. |
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Posted: 11/24/2004 2:27:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Reardon,
Nice setup! Are my concerns about heat transfer to the sight warranted? Also, how is that ACE front sight working for you? Looking good, man! |
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Posted: 11/24/2004 2:42:46 PM EDT
[#12]
THANKS! Looks like I edited my post while you were typing your question... Here is the the link to the thread I am referencing above: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=211030 I love the ACE sight block... it does shorten the sight radius (which I don't mind since it's intended to be used as a BUIS and for cowitnessing). It provides a great cowitness sight picture with the Aimpoint dot (in my opinion, specially if you're more accustomed to an AR or HK sight pic). I like that I can use an AR sight post in it. I prefer the the narrower (pointier) A1 sight post in combination with the rear blade sight. One other comment on heat transfering to the optic... I would definately be hesitant to mount an optic that is less rugged than a Comp M2 or Eotech on the Ultimak. I chose the Aimpoint over an Eotech only because the Comp m2 can be mounted low enough to cowitness. The irons cowitness in the lower 1/8th of the Comp M2. |
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Posted: 11/24/2004 2:51:47 PM EDT
[#13]
The Ultimak-1 never really did tickly my pickle per se'
I think it's just like the top-cover optics mounts on SKS's; it's not designed as an accessory hanger and will not (without a near-redesign) function as one. The lower handguards on an AK are a bit more stable for this, but I still don't like the idea of installing an optic anywhere down there (Though I don't mind the thought of using it for a vertical grip or light, as neither of those need to maintain a zero). |
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Posted: 11/24/2004 5:28:30 PM EDT
[#14]
FYI-- the TDi lower handguard will hold a zero for laser. It does not move, at all. Nor does it get hot. The handguard does not touch the barrel. |
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Posted: 11/24/2004 8:40:34 PM EDT
[#15]
I made no mention of heat as it's not really an issue unless it's the gastube mount with aluminum rings and 10+ mags fired fast in F/A.
Anyways, it is nice to know that it will hold a zero (and yes, as I mentioned, I do know that the lower HG is much more sturdy for a base since it's pretty much pressed into the receiver [on my '74 it is anyways. It's also takes a few good whacks to remove- and that's how I like it]). Now, it's not like I'm saying I wouldn't like a scout-mounted optic on an AK. Perhaps someone may decide to C&C a custom gasblock with just enough picatinny on top for an Aimpoint-style mount. Now, that may be really sturdy, but it does nothing to solve the heat issue! (though I do have some ideas I'll refrain from posting ATM). |
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Posted: 11/25/2004 7:04:24 AM EDT
[#16]
ACE seemed to have had a solution for all of us...but they discontinued it... I tried talking Bob into making me one but it was a no go.  That is why I went to the Ultimak as the next best alternative. www.aceltdusa.com/ak.htm |
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Posted: 11/29/2004 6:10:53 PM EDT
[#17]
WHY did he discontinue that? I saw that & couldn't figure it. Was he not moving sufficient numbers? The stock AK rear sight assembly is practically screaming for someone to make a picatinny rail & a removable BUIS. WHY did he shelve that little gem? |
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Posted: 11/29/2004 8:33:09 PM EDT
[#18]
AK-USA offers the same thing as ACE, but you have to use the Krebs peep rear sight on the receiver cover in place of the traditional AK rear sight:
www.ak-103.com/gallery/AK-102_Custom/index.html  I have no other details. I just saw this on the website. If I get another AK, I'm definitely considering something like this. I hate the side mount, and I'm not at all interested in collecting or authenticity as I am functionality. themao
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Posted: 11/29/2004 8:55:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Krebs copies the Izzi design, so I assume he has to sell rear sight + receiver cover w/ some sort of set screws to hold the cover more firmly in place, since the stock cover is worthless as a sight base. For that matter, I really like the Serbian full-length cover rail - if it can be made into a solid platform. I wonder if Mark Krebs would consider making an equivalent cover? That would be a nice little setup.
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Posted: 11/29/2004 9:12:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Krebs's sight is installed using a Galil like screw that goes into the rear receiver area. I have never seen it or handled it in person, so I'm going on what they told me over the phone 1.5 years ago. Basically, they use your receiver cover, but the rear sight is effectively screwed into the receiver or tang or whatever it is below it, not the receiver cover. I think it's a good solution to a huge problem with the AK system. Until we can import Sig 550s again (or until someone makes a receiver with a sight system milled into it ala AR-15/Valmet/Sako etc. etc.), it's the best solution around for plain jane AKs IMHO. themao
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Posted: 11/29/2004 10:28:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Does that mean the receiver cover is more difficult to remove? I'm trying to envision how a set screw could be used w/o affecting the cover removal. Does this set screw press agains the lower somewhow & create tension between the cover & the release "tab" that's on the reverse end of the recoil spring guid rod? If so, this would seem to require the screw to be loosened before the over could be removed.
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Posted: 11/30/2004 9:23:37 AM EDT
[#22]
I have no clue dude. I would assume it's not something you could take down as easily as a normal AK receiver cover. Call up Krebs and ask them. Maybe someone with a KTR-03 on this board would know the answer, since they'd have a peep sight on their receiver cover. themao
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Posted: 11/30/2004 1:55:34 PM EDT
[#23]
For what it's worth, I did look into all of this and found that the Ultimak option was simplest and cheaper and the most functional... as long you're willing to use a quality optic (i.e. Comp M2 or Eotech). |
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Posted: 11/30/2004 2:31:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Did you try the B&T handguard from DSA too? It doesn't touch the barrel or gas tube, which to me is the big issue with the Ultimak as the gas tube and barrel on my SAR-2 gets VERY hot after shooting just one or two mags slow fire. The Ultimak is a very rigid mount for sure, but I'm not comfortable with having my optics heat up (even if it's my Eotech). www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=BT21428&storeid=1&image=btak47hg.gif  themao
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Posted: 11/30/2004 5:42:21 PM EDT
[#25]
I ha the Krebs M3A and how that worked was that the end of the recoil rod that comes through the back of the dust cover had been drilled and tapped with a small allan key set screw that was tightend once the cover was in place. It held the zero just fine |
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Posted: 11/30/2004 8:44:25 PM EDT
[#26]
No! I did not try that... but that does look like a better option! I'll check that out... |
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Posted: 11/30/2004 8:49:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Holy shit... that thing costs almost $300! Looks like that is the way to go... basically, that costs about $160 more than my rig (Ultimak + TDi lower). If I were starting over... I probably would have dished out the extra $$ for it. |
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Posted: 12/1/2004 10:34:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Yeah, but the question is if it'll fit whatever AK variant you're using. I'm sure it will with some work though. I've seen this model on Sako 95s (posted on the web of course). I would call DSA to see if they'll accept a full refund/return in the event such a handguard doesn't work. Otherwise, I sure as heck wouldn't give them $300 for it.
themao
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Posted: 12/1/2004 6:45:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Here's pics of a Sako 95 with a B&T handguard:
 themao
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Posted: 12/2/2004 9:00:04 AM EDT
[#30]
B&T just updated their web site. They have a PDF about the AK handguard. Apparently, some "modification of the gas tube" is required to make this fit. My guess is that you have to remove the handguard over it (duh) and perhaps due some grinding so the top rail goes over it.
www.brugger-thomet.ch/bruggerthomet.php www.brugger-thomet.ch/inhalt/02/pdf.php?gid=0003&pid=002&id=340   I'd hate to ask how nose heavy these damn systems are.  themao
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