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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2021 3:43:52 AM EDT
I just noticed ( guess I’m behind the times lately) a few Turkish Benelli M4 clones on the market and was curious if anyone has compared them to see which one is the better of the offerings. What are the differences, if any?
Toros Copolla T4 Sulun Arms Tac 12 Canuck Operator Komando P4 CD 601 DPS Thanks AKM |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 11:12:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1096369fred: The stock shipped yesterday 8/18…. Should arrive tomorrow! I am 1 day ahead of you ... unless today is voodoo and it arrives tomorrow |
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USA
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Posted: 8/19/2022 11:29:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cherenkov: Not likely much different, but "Wood is Good" and like the normal stock profile.  I just wish PSA had it in black - I will wait. https://palmettostatearmory.com/black-aces-tactical-pro-s4-12-gauge-shotgun-semi-auto-18-5-walnut-fde-bats4fdewal.html I really like that one, brown and all. If I didn't already have an SDS S4 and a real Italian it probably be all over it. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 8:13:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By splogan: I really like that one, brown and all. If I didn't already have an SDS S4 and a real Italian it probably be all over it. Yeah, it looks a lot cooler than mine. Still a fun project. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2022 10:22:48 AM EDT
[#4]
So did the stocks arrive?
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USA
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Posted: 8/24/2022 10:29:14 AM EDT
[#5]
I've received mine along with a Benelli 3 position and 5 position tube. Fyi the five position is still available. https://www.midwestgunworks.com/product-display.html?Product_Code=70135
Haven't had a chance to see if the new stock fits these tubes or not, been too busy. |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 2:04:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By twistid1: I've received mine along with a Benelli 3 position and 5 position tube. Fyi the five position is still available. https://www.midwestgunworks.com/product-display.html?Product_Code=70135 Haven't had a chance to see if the new stock fits these tubes or not, been too busy. Also received stock. Also no time yet. |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 2:17:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hking]
[#7]
 Turknelli Torture Test: Are Benelli M4 Clones Any Good? Looks like the TFB boys did not have a great time with the SDS Tac-12 There was obviously something very wrong with that specific gun |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2022 6:52:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BorderDave]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hking:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuY4CWm8XwALooks like the TFB boys did not have a great time with the SDS Tac-12 There was obviously something very wrong with that specific gun My Panzer M4 was MUCH worse than that when I first got it. I sent in in for warranty work. Two months later they sent it back to me and it still had a bent shell stop spring. I ended up buying a Benelli shell stop and spring, a Benelli extractor and spring, and also installed an AccuGuide Extended Carrier. I haven’t had a single problem with it since then. |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 7:40:12 PM EDT
[#9]
My Toros T4's action had a lot of drag on it when I got it.
I oiled the action and there was not a lot of change. I pulled the trigger and squirted some oil onto the piston in the recoil spring tube and worked the action. That made a huge difference. I put some more oil in there and continues to work the action and it really smoothed out but it still did not feel right. I looked at the bolt and the link was crooked. I pulled it off and the holes were not drilled correctly. I swapped it out for a Benelli part and the action was really smooth. |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 9:58:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Karankawa]
[#10]
Originally Posted By Hking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuY4CWm8XwALooks like the TFB boys did not have a great time with the SDS Tac-12 There was obviously something very wrong with that specific gun Mine was full of metal shavings and gritty trash when it arrived new. The oil was more like maple syrup. Thick and sticky. Tore it down to clean and oil the action and it runs with that really weak handicap skeet load that comes in 100 round packs. I did not oil the gas system. The factory trigger group seemed soft. I tried heat treating it but later just swapped for better parts. Can’t help but wonder if the pistons or tubes are also soft and metal trash got in there and ruined the seal. ETA the authentic Benelli pistons are selling for $115 each so O suspect there’s a lot more metallurgical wizardry, heat treatment or friction coating going on. |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 1:36:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ozymandiaz]
[#11]
Finally got my SDS Tac-12 set up the way I wanted it... And best of all the upgrades will transfer across to a real M4 when I get sick of the Turk clone
 . Visible changes are a Midwest Industries rail, Regal metal works 5 position recoil tube, Dave's metal works extended magazine, and a Panzer collapsible stock with modified Benelli M4 pistol grip (stock works decently with Benelli spec recoil tubes but I had to use a real M4 pistol grip filed down to fit around the trigger group of the SDS Tac-12). Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2022 6:39:24 AM EDT
[#12]
Watching the TFB Turkenilli torture test was informative.
I'm not sure why James kept going; I would have stopped and completely stripped down the gun once the failure to ejects became obvious. That said, I am sure there are a dozen different causes possible, the most likely being debris and grit in and around the bolt/action. Continuing to shoot it won't break it in, it will just make it worse. I have the SDS version, but I haven't been able to run a few hundred shells through it yet. My plan is do just that: shoot until it stops (and I'm sure it will) then strip it down, polish up the parts, and figure out where the friction is. I paid $399 for the gun. Even factoring in my time that's a bargain, plus tinkering on firearms is my hobby. It's rare not to be able to get something to shoot with enough effort. It's always a question of how much effort is worth it. |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 10:21:17 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blindeye: Watching the TFB Turkenilli torture test was informative. I'm not sure why James kept going; I would have stopped and completely stripped down the gun once the failure to ejects became obvious. That said, I am sure there are a dozen different causes possible, the most likely being debris and grit in and around the bolt/action. Continuing to shoot it won't break it in, it will just make it worse. I have the SDS version, but I haven't been able to run a few hundred shells through it yet. My plan is do just that: shoot until it stops (and I'm sure it will) then strip it down, polish up the parts, and figure out where the friction is. I paid $399 for the gun. Even factoring in my time that's a bargain, plus tinkering on firearms is my hobby. It's rare not to be able to get something to shoot with enough effort. It's always a question of how much effort is worth it. That's James thing when he does these videos, just run them straight out of the box, no cleaning, no lube, just run it. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2022 12:59:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Slimjim]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuY4CWm8XwALooks like the TFB boys did not have a great time with the SDS Tac-12 There was obviously something very wrong with that specific gun Looked very Undergassed, i bet he had a bad O-Ring. Heres a video i made on my AKSA S4, running with multiple loads including Subsonic AA loads. My experience has been much much better than James.  Turknelli M4 Ammo test (Aksa S4) |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2022 1:18:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ozymandiaz: Finally got my SDS Tac-12 set up the way I wanted it... And best of all the upgrades will transfer across to a real M4 when I get sick of the Turk clone . Visible changes are a Midwest Industries rail, Regal metal works 5 position recoil tube, Dave's metal works extended magazine, and a Panzer collapsible stock with modified Benelli M4 pistol grip (stock works decently with Benelli spec recoil tubes but I had to use a real M4 pistol grip filed down to fit around the trigger group of the SDS Tac-12).https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/398541/20220825_222010_2_jpg-2503050.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/398541/20220825_222059_2_jpg-2503051.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/398541/20220825_222228_2_jpg-2503052.JPG May I ask where you sourced the factory pistol grip |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 1:19:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ozymandiaz]
[#16]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2022 6:15:26 PM EDT
[#17]
I would love to see that video have part 2 and 3
Part 2 tear down diagnose Part 3 fix and upgrade to try to get it to pass |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2022 10:07:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Snafu12: I would love to see that video have part 2 and 3 Part 2 tear down diagnose Part 3 fix and upgrade to try to get it to pass It always seems These big youtuber’s never make follow up videos. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2022 10:09:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Slimjim: It always seems These big youtuber’s never make follow up videos. Hit and run |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 10:31:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Slimjim: It always seems These big youtuber’s never make follow up videos. Because the follow up vids don't get nearly the views and therefore the ad revenue as just shitting on something and dipping. |
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Posted: 8/28/2022 6:45:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ozymandiaz: Finally got my SDS Tac-12 set up the way I wanted it... And best of all the upgrades will transfer across to a real M4 when I get sick of the Turk clone . Visible changes are a Midwest Industries rail, Regal metal works 5 position recoil tube, Dave's metal works extended magazine, and a Panzer collapsible stock with modified Benelli M4 pistol grip (stock works decently with Benelli spec recoil tubes but I had to use a real M4 pistol grip filed down to fit around the trigger group of the SDS Tac-12).https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/398541/20220825_222010_2_jpg-2503050.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/398541/20220825_222059_2_jpg-2503051.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/398541/20220825_222228_2_jpg-2503052.JPG Would the pistol grip that come with the Turkish made M4 stock not work? |
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Posted: 8/28/2022 10:01:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ozymandiaz]
[#22]
Not very well, the Panzer grip uses a second nut behind the grip to tighten it and there's not enough threads at that position. I was able to get it on there by removing the recoil tube nut and using only the grip nut to hold both the tube and the grip, but it unscrewed too easily. The shape of the grip where it interfaces with the trigger guard was also different and would take more filing / reshaping (since the panzer trigger guard is wider / extended compared to the Tac12 which is more Benelli-like). The Benelli pistol grip has an insert with threads all the way through the hole in the grip so there's plenty of room to thread it on and still have the recoil tube retaining nut in front of it.
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Posted: 8/28/2022 11:23:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Joescuba]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ozymandiaz: Not very well, the Panzer grip uses a second nut behind the grip to tighten it and there's not enough threads at that position. I was able to get it on there by removing the recoil tube nut and using only the grip nut to hold both the tube and the grip, but it unscrewed too easily. The shape of the grip where it interfaces with the trigger guard was also different and would take more filing / reshaping (since the panzer trigger guard is wider / extended compared to the Tac12 which is more Benelli-like). The Benelli pistol grip has an insert with threads all the way through the hole in the grip so there's plenty of room to thread it on and still have the recoil tube retaining nut in front of it. Alright. I wished someone would go ahead and import the recoil tube from Turkey. I have a T4. I saw Turkish troops using them so I picked one up. I am thinking about trying this stock on my Benelli M4. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2022 4:19:48 PM EDT
[#24]
I had a bit of an unusual problem with my TAC-12 the other day. I decided to add a 2 round extension to my mag tube and use the stock mag spring. Consistently, my TAC-12 would fail at sending a shell into the receiver ramp. I would get a light "click" when pressing the shell release, but is would only exit the tube about half way, if at all. I messed around with things, disassembled, cleaned, cleaned the tube, lubricated.....and results were still the same. So I reinstalled the original 5 round block tube and now she launches the shells into the receiver. I guess I need a stronger spring if I plan to run the 2 round extension?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/4/2022 7:12:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Snafu12]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dltrevino02: I had a bit of an unusual problem with my TAC-12 the other day. I decided to add a 2 round extension to my mag tube and use the stock mag spring. Consistently, my TAC-12 would fail at sending a shell into the receiver ramp. I would get a light "click" when pressing the shell release, but is would only exit the tube about half way, if at all. I messed around with things, disassembled, cleaned, cleaned the tube, lubricated.....and results were still the same. So I reinstalled the original 5 round block tube and now she launches the shells into the receiver. I guess I need a stronger spring if I plan to run the 2 round extension? Mine did that I changed to OEM mag spring (Benelli ) and it went away I have a +1 on now with breacher choke no issues |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 9:49:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Delta Mike LTD had the Sulun TAC-12 collapsible stock in stock.
Sulun TAC-12 Collapsible Stock for Turknelli's |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 4:54:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dltrevino02: I had a bit of an unusual problem with my TAC-12 the other day. I decided to add a 2 round extension to my mag tube and use the stock mag spring. Consistently, my TAC-12 would fail at sending a shell into the receiver ramp. I would get a light "click" when pressing the shell release, but is would only exit the tube about half way, if at all. I messed around with things, disassembled, cleaned, cleaned the tube, lubricated.....and results were still the same. So I reinstalled the original 5 round block tube and now she launches the shells into the receiver. I guess I need a stronger spring if I plan to run the 2 round extension? Got my new Wolff Extra Power spring in yesterday and installed it along with the +2 tube. Worked perfectly.....and then the problem re-emerged. So I decided to give things a closer look and it appears that the bolt release spring either isn't strong enough to move the lever out of the way when the shell release lever moves to release it, or perhaps the area on the upper part of the bolt release lever that contacts the rear of the shells isn't perfectly smooth and is hanging up on the shells due to friction. I'm thinking of just applying some light grease to the area and see if that remedies my issue. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:53:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Roland-G23: Delta Mike LTD had the Sulun TAC-12 collapsible stock in stock. Sulun TAC-12 Collapsible Stock for Turknelli's While it works, mostly, there has to be better options. FWIW, I've had mine for 500 ish rounds and I haven't gone back to the fixed stock yet. But I'd gladly trade it for anything better in the collapsible variety. I'm hoping somebody imports knock off factory like versions. I've only seen the stock bodies so far, have I missed the tubes? |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 6:52:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Finally took my CD out with the field stock. Ran 00 and high brass pellets fine. Did notice the mag tube nut came loose. Nothing a little blue Locktite did not fix.
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MS, USA
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Posted: 9/8/2022 8:42:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SISTIM7]
[#30]
So with 42 pages in this thread I wasn’t able to determine if anyone had verified the Capolla T4 would work with the Panzer Arms adjustable stock. I’m still waiting on my Benelli 3 position tube but the pistol grip does tighten around the factory Capolla tube at least and that was my biggest concern. You do have to remove the factory jam nut from the tube and use it with the grip. I’ll update with pics when I get it fully installed.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/8/2022 9:36:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SISTIM7: So with 42 pages in this thread I wasn’t able to determine if anyone had verified the Capolla T4 would work with the Panzer Arms adjustable stock. I’m still waiting on my Benelli 3 position tube but the pistol grip does tighten around the factory Capolla tube at least and that was my biggest concern. You do have to remove the factory jam nut from the tube and use it with the grip. I’ll update with pics when I get it fully installed. You’ll need a Benelli grip for it to work right |
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USA
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Posted: 9/8/2022 9:39:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Ok guys I got the Panzer arms m4 stock and a Benelli three position tube and I can confirm it fits fine. Unfortunately I was just mocking it up and now I can't get the freaking stock off the tube?? Can someone help me out on how to remove the stock from the tube? I've tried holding the button while rotating and pulling rearwards but it simply doesn't come off
 
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MS, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2022 1:57:11 AM EDT
[#33]
We’ll see.
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:12:50 PM EDT
[#34]
@twistid1
There is a position between notches where you can rotate the stock the stock the opposite direction of when you're adjusting it. Then it just slides off the tube. Hold the button down while looking for the removal spot. On my panzer m4 there is a line on the recoil tube indicating where the stock need to be to remove it. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2022 6:36:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By potatoeater: @twistid1 There is a position between notches where you can rotate the stock the stock the opposite direction of when you're adjusting it. Then it just slides off the tube. Hold the button down while looking for the removal spot. On my panzer m4 there is a line on the recoil tube indicating where the stock need to be to remove it. Like 45 degrees off center left or right |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:09:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Anyone need a Benelli stock tube #70130? I have an extra, as well as a Panzer M4 stock.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:16:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Just get the Beretta bro
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:48:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SouthPaw970: Anyone need a Benelli stock tube #70130? I have an extra, as well as a Panzer M4 stock. @SouthPaw970 PM sent |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2022 9:24:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SISTIM7]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rubicon20032003: You’ll need a Benelli grip for it to work right I was able to get the Panzer grip to work with the Benelli tube. The issue I had was the stock did not work well with the Benelli tube. I went with the Panzer tube and all is well. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2022 9:28:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SISTIM7]
[#40]
So an update with the Capolla T4. The Benelli tube did not work well with the Panzer stock and would not secure in position without a lot of movement. I ordered the Panzer tube and all is well.
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Posted: 9/24/2022 12:04:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Where are you guys picking up the Panzer tube at?
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MS, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2022 7:38:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wangstang: Where are you guys picking up the Panzer tube at? [email protected] 80 shipped if you use PP. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:34:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ozymandiaz: Finally got my SDS Tac-12 set up the way I wanted it... And best of all the upgrades will transfer across to a real M4 when I get sick of the Turk clone . Visible changes are a Midwest Industries rail, Regal metal works 5 position recoil tube, Dave's metal works extended magazine, and a Panzer collapsible stock with modified Benelli M4 pistol grip (stock works decently with Benelli spec recoil tubes but I had to use a real M4 pistol grip filed down to fit around the trigger group of the SDS Tac-12).https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/398541/20220825_222010_2_jpg-2503050.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/398541/20220825_222059_2_jpg-2503051.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/398541/20220825_222228_2_jpg-2503052.JPG @Ozymandiaz How do you like the MI handguard? Any wiggle? Or solid lockup? I have a Mesa Tactical Truckee on my SDS tac-12 that has what seems like a bit of wiggle to it. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 11:10:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ozymandiaz]
[#44]
I like it, but it does add noticeable weight to the front end. Little to no slop / wiggle when all the set screws are fastened down. I left out the final tensioning screws because a little wiggle room didn't bother me as much as dealing with a few extra screws every time I remove the handguard. Without those final tension screws it has maybe 1/8" or less movement.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 11:55:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Good to know. Thanks!
I also see that MI has an Aimpoint T2 optic mount that replaces the pic rail. Anyone know if these will work on the TAC-12? It’s a very attractive cowitness option. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:47:09 PM EDT
[#46]
I use a scalarworks on my four peaks clone
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:55:06 PM EDT
[#47]
I used the Scalarworks RMR mount on my Toros T4.
The mounting holes in the receiver were undersized and I had to run a tap through them all. No big deal. There was someone else here that ran into the same issue with their clone. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/2/2022 2:48:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryWhen you buy the Panzer tube did it include the internals? How many positions does it have? The Panzer grip and stock fit fine with no issue? |
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USA
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Posted: 10/3/2022 10:53:05 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EzGoingKev: I used the Scalarworks RMR mount on my Toros T4. The mounting holes in the receiver were undersized and I had to run a tap through them all. No big deal. There was someone else here that ran into the same issue with their clone. I did the same on my tac12. Dont think it even took half an hour to do. |
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Posted: 10/4/2022 9:33:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Anyone with a Panzer Arms M4 know if it likes these?
Sterling, 12 GA 24 G #8 TRAP |
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