I have been thinking about starting a web site to post a review I wrote about the new model "C" Kel-Tec SU 16. I'm putting it out to you guys first to see what you think. It's a little long for a thread here on ARFcom but I think as a stand alone web site it won't be too bad. Let me know if you like it or what I should change.

Thanks!
Mark

Once I get set up with an AVI video host I'll have a few short movies to show you too of the rifle getting dunked in icy water and shaken off and fired. It's pretty neat!

I now have a seperate web site for the SU 16 review and included two videos for your viewing pleasure. Please go to mysite.verizon.net/vzeonrw7/id3.html to check it all out. Please let me know if it works and what you think.Thank you!  

Kel-Tec SU 16 "C" Review
By Mark R.
[email protected]

To say that I am an "AR Guy" would be an understatement. I presently own several AR-15's and hope to own many more. You just can't have too many of them if you ask me. The black rifle is a marvel of engineering. The accuracy, the ergonomics, and its adaptability using various rails, optics, and barrel lengths are all outstanding in my book. Knowing this you might ask why the Kel -Tec SU 16 then? How does this have a place at the table where the Stoner designed rifle reigns supreme? When the SU 16 now called the model "A" came on the scene a few years ago the design had a certain appeal to it. The pro's were light weight, handiness, a foldable for storage design, 5.56mm caliber, AR-15 magazine compatibility, butt stock magazine storage, piston actuated gas system, picatinny railed receiver platform, and it's novel bi-pod forend. Another equally important aspect of the SU-16 is that as great as the AR-15 is it’s not another AR-15. Variety, it’s the spice of life. I didn’t want another AR-15 right now and in many locations the AR-15 is banned from sale.



The problems with the first two models of SU 16’s obvious to me were their crude plastic sights (model “A”), it's thin and delicate blued finished barrel, it's open action leaving it vulnerable to outside fouling, too long of a barrel (18.4 model “A”), and it's plain muzzle due the political climate at the time. Today's Kel-Tec SU 16 corrected all of these short comings with the new model "C" carbine. Sporting a new parkerized, 16 inch, threaded, and heavier .625 diameter barrel the problems with heat dissipation, barrel whip, and delicate finish are a thing of the past.



The model "C" also corrected the earlier substandard plastic front and rear sights with a robust front sight unit integral to the gas block which utilizes AR-15 parts too. The rear is windage adjustable; all aluminum sight that uses opposing screws to make adjustments and for securing to the railed top cover. This was good news and bad news as I found out during the "Torture Test" later performed. I'll explain later, but once set I can't see needing to move them again so I suggest blue Loctite to keep it secure especially after sustained rapid fire.  The open area behind the bolt carrier assembly now sports a dust cover even though simple in design it works as it should. Interestingly, the manual provided has not yet caught up with the model "C" and no mention was made of it in there. This is important because it covers the firing pin securing pin and disassembly can not take place without removing the dust cover to expose this. After careful investigation the cover is lightly pried upward and slides off the carrier towards the locking lugs on the bolt. This exposes the right side of the carrier for cleaning and disassembly. Speaking of what else is also not in the manual I was quite surprised to find by accident there was in fact a manual bolt hold open device on the SU-16. It is widely reported that the carrier will lock back on an empty magazines but I had not heard anything mentioned before that on the bottom of the rifle there is a spring steel plate that can be pressed upward manually holding the bolt carrier to the rear. It’s simple and effective.

The most obvious change to the "C" was of course the true folding style stock as compared to the foldable only for storage stock of the earlier models. I have to be completely honest. At first, I did not care for the aesthetics of this stock at all! With that stock, I thought this was a rifle only its mother could possibly love. I planned on swapping it out right away with a model "A" or "B" stock creating what would have been a hybrid model carbine taking the best of the features from both the older and new models. I had also looked forward to regaining the magazine storage feature of the earlier models and really missed not having that feature on the newer carbine. To my surprise after a few days of handling the little black rifle I don't even see its unattractiveness anymore only its engineering and functionality. This gun grows on you like you would not believe. I wouldn't change a thing on it anymore. Holding the carbine with the strong hand you can deploy and stow the stock without any change in grip. It locks tight in both open and closed positions and is plenty solid enough for anything you would expect to do with it except for maybe full contact butt strokes to the head which I don't see coming up too often. I also don't plan on firing it much with the stock in the folded position, but it's nice to know I could if desired. A big advantage is that it’s immediately ready once retrieved from storage instead of having to reassemble before firing. Incidentally, in the folded position the stock creates what I can only describe as a vertical fore grip for you off hand to hold onto in lieu the regular hand guards. It's a nice added benefit if you are so inclined.




So what modifications can be done to the carbine? Well, the number one thing is replace the take down pin with a cotterless hitch pin. A 1 1/2" long by 1/4" in diameter hitch pin works very well and is important for several reasons. Number one reason is if the factory take down pin is lost you have a very ineffective polymer club. The factory pin is too small and easy to loose. I may sound contradictory but it's also too hard to remove when you want it too. Murphy's Law in a way. When you want it, you'll loose it and when you want it out you'll have a heck of a time getting it out. You could even dummy cord the hitch pin to the rifle to solider proof it. I haven't yet, but I will. Another mod was the addition of grip tape to a few select locations. I first used cut sections of bicycle inner tube to add to the pistol grip area to improve grip and was somewhat less than satisfied. Remember how I said I was an "AR" guy. Well, I really meant I was anal retentive because it has to be perfect for me to be happy. Grip tape really shines figuratively speaking when applied to the grip and magazine release button. Why the mag release button? I found with the proper finger placement off of the trigger during no shoot periods and placed along the side of the receiver that when I thought I was touching the mag release button it was really the reinforcements along the mag well. If you’re good with a knife you could serrate the button but I wasn't going to do that. If you're going to use your rifle for anything serious like self protection you don't want even a little thing as simple as confusing your mag release button with something else left to up to chance. For purely ergonomic reasons I added some more pieces of grip tape to the pistol grip area as I knew I'd be shooting it in the cold and probably while wet for the testing that I had planned. It's the sure grip effect I was trying for with the cut section inner tube but this worked much better. Very tacky and I mean that in a good way. I can see though that the CLP oil I use can make keeping it on there hard unless one is careful not to get it on the stock. The only other thing I did was add an AR-15 flash suppressor. Why, to control the muzzle flash, protect the crown, and you really want me to say it I will. It looks BAD-ASS!  The only thing cooler could maybe a Phantom or Vortex flash suppressor or maybe a legal sound suppressor one day (they are legal in my state). If you're not an AR guy, do a Google search and you'll see what I mean. All it needs now is a bayonet lug. With the new thicker .625 " dia. barrel it may be possible. There are bolt on ones but they are normally for .5" thin barrels or .7” heavy barrels. We have something in the middle with the.6” barrel of the Kel-Tec, but the .5" one could be modified to work. If you are wondering why somebody would want a bayonet on a SU-16 all I'll say is because brother I can.  Look up CMMG on the web to find out more on the mount if you want to try the same the thing. The integral bi-pod forend isn’t bullet proof though it is fully functional. I found that using my off hand to steady one leg of the bi-pod it increased it’s stability and prevented the legs from folding underneath unless careful to avoid them from collapsing. They do positively lock in the closed position and never once did they seem to want to “deploy” before being called upon.



Let me talk about the disassembly procedures for a moment. I like to think of the SU-16 as the AR-15's little brother. The SU-16 is no battle rifle like the AR-15 is though. Some will even dispute that about the AR, but I think they would be wrong to suggest that. Like the AR-15, the SU-16 requires no tools for disassembly. Think about that for a moment. To design a rifle to break down tool free is no small feat that I think most people take for granted these days. The engineering in this weapon is very, very good.  I can look at it anywhere and see a detail that required a lot of thought put into it.  I'm not going to go step by step through the entire disassembly procedure because you can read the manual for that yourself, but essentially the bolt carrier op rod assembly comes out the bottom of the hinged open upper receiver once retracting and removing the charging handle. It's very easy to do and it comes out as a complete unit leaving only two other parts being the take down pin and charging handle to keep track of. I did this with gloved hands out in the snow with no problems at all. After the 500 plus rounds of ammunition that was fired during my little test the entire system was remarkably still very clean. The only thing even showing any signs of needing wiped down was the op-rod face that received the full force of the burnt gases. I don't know if I'll ever get to test this theory, but I think the little carbine could have gone 1000 rounds before needing any real cleaning.  Inside the receiver looked like it was barely fired at all that day. That's good news for reliability and you'll see how that turned out very soon.

The road to the firing range was closed due to poor conditions and honestly that was probably the best luck we could have asked for. No other brave souls decided to make the mile long trek on foot through the snow that day like my co-tester Dave and I did. We had the range to ourselves, but we had to manage carefully what we could bring with us on the hike. We only brought our 500 plus rounds of ammo, some mags and the Kel-Tec SU-16 carbine. We scrounged up a target stand once there and improvised our targets from a few unshot ones lying around as range trash. Once done for the day unlike some we packed out our trash of course I'd just like to say.  The plan was this: 20 - 50 rounds to zero, 100-400 torture testing, and finish again with more accuracy testing. We never got back around to the post accuracy test. I'll take the blame for that. I would have really like to have done that, but frankly we were shooting so much and so fast I forgot to hold back a few rounds for that purpose.  The SU-16 was brand new up until this point. It was only disassembled for a through cleaning the night before. Incidentally, my model "C" was made in the first week of January of 2005. It's that brand new!

After loading up the ten round mag supplied by Kel-Tec I settled down and fired off my first three round group at 25 meters. I would have liked to have shot a little farther out, but again our supplies were limited to what we found on site. Much to my pleasure they grouped nicely. Windage was dead on and elevation was a little high about three inches. After a few quick front sight adjustments to bring the shots down, by the final shot of the ten round mag I had scored a direct hit in the bull's eye.



Elapsed time was less than 10 minutes to get her zeroed. Yeah! The supplied ten round magazine worked flawlessly too. No malfunctions of any kind to report. Nothing else matters if it's not reliable and that's exactly what we were about to find out next.

Before the reliability test though let me give you my shooting and handling impressions of the carbine real fast. Trigger breaks clean at around 5 pounds. I was pleasantly surprised by this. Not creepy or mushy. Kinda crisp, but not match grade of course either. Cycling the action by hand is smooth and effortless. You can barely detect the hammer making contact under the carrier during hand cycling. As a side note I prefer to minimize dry firing non military grade weapons so I usually decock them when the rifle is unloaded and I want to lower the hammer without dry firing excessively. What I mean is you can partially retract the charging handle, pull the trigger, and the hammer follows the carrier forward therefore not possibly damaging the firing pin by dry firing it without anything in there like a round absorbing some of the force. Some weapons like the AR-15 can be dry fired all day and night, but some can't and this could break firing pins before too long. I don't know which category the Kel-Tec fits into yet so I'm not going to find out by maybe breaking something. USGI magazines drop free, but the Kel-Tec ten round mag does not. That was planned I'm sure as I can see a mag getting inadvertently released in a backpack or on the trail and you would want it to stay put and not fall out of the weapon. The case deflecting charging handle is another innovation. I don't know if it was really a problem before it, but it did seem to work pretty well. Recoil was mild over all and even with the more powerful ammo of the group being the XM193 it did shove only a little. Being so light you would think it would jump around a lot but it does not. Still, even with the XM193 it was very manageable with fast double and triple taps easy to keep on targets of opportunity at 30 - 50 yards away.



Did I stay this thing was fun to shoot? It is! It feels like a toy at first, and I think that's why so many people want to put it down and say its junk without even firing it. Try telling me you still think it's just a toy after empting a thirty round magazine as fast as you can pull the trigger with it. I know it's not a toy after doing just that and it wasn't just one, but magazine after magazine.

Finally here are the details of the "500 Round Torture Test"



Ammo  530 rounds to be exact consisting of:

XM193 55gr FMJ
Santa Barbra 62 gr FMJ
PCA Spectrum 55 gr polymer cased ammunition
Wolff 55 gr steel cased ammunition
Reloaded 52 gr hollow point w/ 23 gr H322 powder ammunition

Test

After the initial 10 zeroing rounds was completed for the next 400 rounds firing was in 20-30 round stages magazines loaded with a variety of the above ammo in a combination of slow aimed fire and fast double/triple taps until empty. Rest time between magazines was only enough to Bore Snake barrel with CLP a total of two passes before resuming fire unless failure is encountered and only enough time to correct the problem.

Here's how it all went down!

Round 45 Rear sight went flying! It loosened up as it came from factory as no windage changes were made during the zeroing stage. Retightened and continued on with test.

Round 127 First stoppage. Ammo was the reloaded 52 gr hollow point w/ 23 gr H322 powder. Heavily dented the primer failed to fire after being cleared and rechambered even a second time. Cause determined to be a bad primer as bullet was pulled and powder checked out.

Round 128 - 334 No failures of any kind of sustained rapid fire.

Round 335 Stoppage encountered. Empty case did not eject fresh round and attempted to chambered. Ammo was the reloaded 52 gr hollow point w/ 23 gr H322 powder. Stoppage cleared and rest of magazine fired without incident.



Up until this point ammunition used was the reloaded 52 gr HP, Wolf, Santa Barbra, and XM193. Barrel was at its hottest here than at any other time it had seen up until this point. There was considerable heat and smoke coming off the barrel and gas tube at this point. Handguards though warm never became uncomfortable to a point where they couldn't be used bare handed. One area of the handguards right around the gas block did begin to char and melt about an area 1/8" long.  It is almost un-noticeable unless you knew where to look. Except for the first ten rounds during the zeroing the PCA polymer ammo wasn't used yet. This was now used starting at round 400.

Rounds 400 - 410 Stoppage encountered. PCA Spectrum ammunition failed to eject 8 out of ten times. The polymer case neck and mouth was melted and distorted hanging up inside of the receiver. Material was being softened by the high temperatures. After ten rounds I switched back to the other ammunition and no further problems encountered.

Round 410 - 500 No failures of any kind during this special testing period. Let me explain what I mean by that. Already nice and warmed up, the SU-16 conducted two rapid fire magazine dumps of 20 and 30 rounds each.  After this the Kel-Tec was given a brief cooling off period by completely dunking it in a frozen body of standing water after breaking through the ice.



The steam and boiling water is visible for a few moments. Once retrieved and cleared by no more than retracting the charging handle and shaking it vigorously several times to remove water from the barrel the SU-16 was fired again for effect. This was done twice with no failures of any kind! Check out all of the pictures to see the action. The description here doesn't do it justice. The result again was zero failures. It was very impressive to witness. Could an AR-15 do the same? Yeah, I’m sure it could. Would I ever try that with one of my $1000 black rifles? Heck No!




In closing, with the new sights, heavier barrel, improved finish, being threaded for a flash suppressor, and incorporating a dust cover all add up to a robust, handy, reliable, and don't forget fun little rifle. I couldn't be any happier with it and I look forward to putting it to the test again.  What could’ve been done better? Well, the number one thing is the lack of using removable Loctite on the rear sight screws and the screws around the magazine well.  The rear sight should have separate mounting and adjusting screws. The two top screws near the magazine well backed themselves out pretty far under recoil. Fortunately no failures were associated with that happening, but I could see the possibility of loosing them if it was not noticed in time. That’s all I would do to improve the SU 16 model “C” except to offer a hybrid version for those living in states that would not allow the model “C’s” folding stock and for others who would prefer a more traditional looking full stock with the extra magazine storage but with the heavy barrel profile and improved sights of the model “C”. Even that troublesome polymer ammunition worked fine again after cooling down some so we did complete the firing of all 530 rounds in less than two hours.




Remember how I said it's all about the reliability? I give this carbine a passing grade of B+. I can't hold the bad primer stoppage or the polymer ammo failure against the rifle, and the one failure to eject is even suspect being that a reload was involved. It digested the Wolff, XM193, and Santa Barbra 100% in a very hot barrel, in a very short amount of time, being fired magazine after magazine; with very little break in between. Not to mention all of that, and then getting tossed in a frozen stream and still working!

All I can say is I would have no problem relying on this rifle for serious duty when used with first rate ammunition. Hope this helped answer a few of your questions and that you enjoyed my review.

Thank You,
Mark


Member of the MD Army National Guard
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
DNR Volunteer Range Officer
Certified Gun Nut

interesting. Did you thread the barrel yourself ?

Nope, it comes that way now.

-M

$579 give or take depending on your dealer. Some people will say why buy that when you can get an AR-15 for $100 more. Well, I never see any AR's for less than $900 and I wanted something I wouldn't be afraid to abuse a little.

interesting but I dont see any advantage over an Ar-15

Quoted: interesting but I dont see any advantage over an Ar-15

It doesn't have any, like he said, except the price.  




Nice review.

Excellent review! Takes guts to take ANY weapon, no matter what the price, and toss it into the water or mud and then keep firing it.  I would have to say that is one of the best reviews I have read in a while.

I really, really wish Keltec would modify the folding stock and come up with a system that does not require a pin, or that at least used some sort of captured pin.  I have handled one of the earlier ones and immediately thought it would be a good idea to replace the OEM pin with one that I could attacah to the weapon with a short length of dummy cord.  Other than that it sounds like Keltec (eswpecially if they could get it down just under the $500 range) has a well thought-out deisgn.  A lot of peple say "its not an AR" but I think the Keltec has its place.

So what is the next review we can expect?

Dawg

Quoted: If that rifle cost $400 I'd buy one in a heartbeat to keep in the truck.  At just under $600 I'm one of the people who would say build an AR. Very cool review though.  Great job.

+1

h/w i might take a look at it, at least after i check out all of the other new, cooler stuff coming out

Great review!  Sounds like they're getting it better with every rev, and have fixed some of the problems my SU16 has.  Too bad the C's not California legal, due to still being shootable with the stock folded, but hopefully they'll put the heavy barrel on the older versions as well.

Keep us posted on how it holds up over time!

max

Great review.  I think I might trade in my 180b for one.  

Hopefully these do not snap at the receiver hinge pins like 180b's

Nice review!   I have wondered what peoples' experiences have been with this latest model.  Just wish it was $100 cheaper.  I know some people had problems with the bipod collapsing on them on the old model.   Did you get to try that out?

Quoted: Nice review!   I have wondered what peoples' experiences have been with this latest model.  Just wish it was $100 cheaper.  I know some people had problems with the bipod collapsing on them on the old model.   Did you get to try that out?

The bi-pod can close on you if your not careful to apply a little reward pressure to keep them extended. I also found that if I hold one of the legs with my off hand it prevents any chance of them folding undeath unexpectedly. They move in unison so holding one controls them both.

Thanks for the nice words folks. I agree if it was a $100 bucks less they would sell a lot better.

what about that bayonet that is supposed to fit it and the AR-15?  

Mark,
Great review.  May I asked where you got the rifle?  I've been considering one of these or a Sub2K.

BTW if you need a place to host the review, I can make room at my site (see below).

Quoted: Mark, Great review.  May I asked where you got the rifle?  I've been considering one of these or a Sub2K. BTW if you need a place to host the review, I can make room at my site (see below).

Hey Forest!
I got it at X-Ring in Newark DE. Call-em at (302) 737-6575. If you tell them Mark sent you they may add 10% though. Seriously, anybody within 50 miles of Newark go there. They are a great shop.

Forest, I wanted to try to create my own web site but then I realized I don't know a darn thing about creating one. I'll email you to talk about taking you up on that offer.

BTW- Who wants help me by hosting a minute and half video of this carbine getting overheated and getting tossed into a frozen stream

-Mark

Great review Mark.
I must say I'm very surprised at Kel-Tec's new offering. Very tempting indeed. This company is the one to watch for innovations. It's obvious they're thinking up nifty features and trying real hard to earn the respect of rifle shooters.  By going 5.56mm and making it reliable to handle mil-spec ammo, now that's a smart move. I don't have any use for pistol-caliber carbines.

I have to ask, any sand or mud test coming up for the SU16-C?

Also, these are not chrome chamber, right? [Wishful thinking ] But the 'C' can still handle M193 pretty well though.
I would love to hear how the action is holding up at, say, 5,000 rounds (not necessarily torture-tested).

I assume you were using USGI 30 rounders and they worked good?

Thanks for the replies.

Great reveiw, thanks. Locally through Davidsons (distributor) they list for 455.52 plus tax but are out of stock.Sounds like this might be a good gun to keep in the trunk or if you needed something low profile to put in a back pack or suitcase.

.

Quoted: Great review Mark. I must say I'm very surprised at Kel-Tec's new offering. Very tempting indeed. This company is the one to watch for innovations. It's obvious they're thinking up nifty features and trying real hard to earn the respect of rifle shooters.  By going 5.56mm and making it reliable to handle mil-spec ammo, now that's a smart move. I don't have any use for pistol-caliber carbines. I have to ask, any sand or mud test coming up for the SU16-C? Also, these are not chrome chamber, right? [Wishful thinking ] But the 'C' can still handle M193 pretty well though. I would love to hear how the action is holding up at, say, 5,000 rounds (not necessarily torture-tested). I assume you were using USGI 30 rounders and they worked good? Thanks for the replies.

Hi M4C-
No sand or mud yet sorry, but I'll search some out the next time. Temp's were around the mid thirties and everything was frozen that day. Which when you think about it adds another facet of some cold weather testing.

500 rounds was by no means the end all be all of torture tests but when you factor in all the harsh inflamatory comments I directed at it that day I bet I at least made it slightly bent out of shape.

No chrome chamber or bore so I was sure to clean up real good once getting home. USGI 20 and 30 round mags as well as the plastic 10 rounder worked like a charm.

Later

Tag

I'd like to see them ditch the bipod.  the whole integral bipod thing that became popular with the steyr scout is a fad i'm hoping will pass.  a bipod is completely unecessary on a rifle like this and just adds to cost and complexity.  i also wonder how it affects accuracy being attatched to the barrel.  i'd prefer to see this gun with a carbon fiber forend, or perhaps some sort of RAS system.

The improved sights and heavier barrel are long overdue.  i was very impressed with the original models overall design, but hated the sights.  i'd still prefer to see the original stock on a "C" model upper.  shooting it with the stock folded is not a feature i care about, but having it fold into a much more compact size is something i'd definately appreciate.  the magazine storage is just a nice bonus!  of course, since i live in the PRK, i'd need the original stock anyway.

it's about time somebody offered a decent alternative to the mini-14 in the "bargain .223" arena.  

great thread!

Great review.

I looked at that rifle when they first came out. Sights looked poor so I never looked at it again. Your review has changed my mind I will once again investigate it as a future purchase.

Thanks

Quoted: interesting but I dont see any advantage over an Ar-15

Gas Piston
Folding compact format - folds smaller than any AR except an SBR
handguards convert to bipod
lighter weight.

In short, it's the perfect trunk gun.

I wouldn't let my ARs bounce around in my trunk, but this would be perfect for that IMO.

Have to go lay hands on one now.

Mark,

Any chance you could measure your barrel diameter?  There's been some conflicting info out of Keltec on this, and those of us in California are working on how to get them to make a C version with an A/B folding stock.

I've looked at the old model and wasn't sure. This review has changed my mind. I will have to check if these are Jersey legal.

Quoted: Mark, Any chance you could measure your barrel diameter?  There's been some conflicting info out of Keltec on this, and those of us in California are working on how to get them to make a C version with an A/B folding stock.

Listen up maggot!

I know it a book's worth reading up there but I stated it's .625"s in diameter. The model A/B stock will fold and lock to the barrel on the new "c" model. I already checked.

D'oh!  Curse you, short-term memory!hanks!

Great Job with the review and the pics Mark.   I am scheduled to do a review for ETS (www.equipped.com/) on the SU-16B model.   Just waiting for Kel-Tec to see if they will send me the bravo model for test/eval/review or if I just have to go and buy it myself.   I have shot the alpha model and liked very much.    I will check various lots of ammo, dirt/dust issues, and accuracy.    

That’s all I would do to improve the SU 16 model “C” except to offer a hybrid version for those living in states that would not allow the model “C’s” folding stock and for others who would prefer a more traditional looking full stock with the extra magazine storage but with the heavy barrel profile and improved sights of the model “C”.

SU16CA now available: This is a hybrid of the SU16C and SU16A rifles. It is an SU16C rifle with the folding stock replaced with the fixed stock of the SU-16A rifle. The only other difference is that it will include 2 magazines like the SU16A. Price will be exactly the same as the SU16C. (posted 2-11-2005)

  www.kel-tec.com/news.htm




After reading your review and then the news from kel-tec, I feel that Californians will finally have an acceptable alternative to the Mini-14.  Any ETA on the video?  

Nice Review. I had the SU-16 for years and it worked 100%. Had to make a device to hold the rifle closed when transporting and to replace the take down pin if factory pin was lost. I sold the SU to fund my AR, but the C model will be mone very soon. :)

Nice review for a neat rifle.

I measured my SU16A barrel for comparison, and it's 0.745" under the handguard.  From there it's stepped and tapered, going from 0.630" at the handguard step to 0.530" at the muzzle.

Well, I put it all together in a stand alone web site so I had a place to host some of the video action I got of putting the SU16 through it's paces.

Go here: mysite.verizon.net/vzeonrw7/id3.html to see the site and download the video in the video section. They only had space for two of them so I can't show you all of it, but check it out and tell me if it works for you.

Thank you,
Mark

Go here: mysite.verizon.net/vzeonrw7/id3.html to see the site and download the video in the video section. They only had space for two of them so I can't show you all of it, but check it out and tell me if it works for you. hankMark

Very nice! Ok i'm ready for the next videos :) That stock is stronger than it looks. I am saving for it already.

Nice job on the website!  

Amazing little rifle.  I'm really impressed.

Thanks for the videos, fun to watch.  Nice job on the site.

^^

In case anybody else was considering one and wanted the information.

Still doing great btw. Added a single point sling and looking forward to putting another 700 rounds thru it.

Great review!  I've got a couple of their 9mm carbines that have served me very well for years & I was interested - but not sold - on the SU-16 when it first came out.  This model (as you mentioned) addresses most of the excuses I had not to buy the original.  I'm still not in a hurry (I want to see what prices do over the next year or so, or see if I can stumble into a good used one ), but this is on my "to be purchased" list.

Go Elk Neck!!!!!! I take it the range nazi's didnt want to drive up there in the snow?  Awesome job on the writeup, I'd buy one if  I didnt have my money tied up in my AK project.

Joe

YOU ARE A SICK TWIST.....I like that....

Great videos.  Have you contacted Kel-Tec?

Now that is a true gun nut review!!! Awesome job!! That's the kind of hardcore torture test people want to know about. Nicely documented and nicely explained. Hope to see you writing in  mag some day about guns that way. Keep it up!!

I noticed that Kel-TEc is now offering a 16CA model with the C barrel/sights and the A model stock.

The OAL of the C model is only 25.5" folded so we can't have it in MI. But we can have the folder without the functional pistol grip.

Quoted: Quoted: interesting but I dont see any advantage over an Ar-15 Gas Piston

He said advantage.

Quoted: YOU ARE A SICK TWIST.....I like that....

Thank you!

Check this out .... www.kel-tec.com/su-16_accessories.htm



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#SU16-920 Compact Forend Conversion $45.00

Great review Mark!

I've always liked the concept of the SU-16. Handled a couple of the A models, but haven't seen the newer models yet. I do prefer the folding stock over the folding "action" of the A model though.

My biggest hesitation is the price tag. Like the others, if it were only around $100 cheaper it would be my trunk gun.