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Posted: 6/19/2006 11:17:24 AM EDT
[#1]
wow, first a few FN PS90 misfeeds and now a FS2000 malfunctions... it isn't normal!
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Posted: 6/19/2006 11:18:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the review. Interesting feeding problems. I know a bunch of people, myself included are interested as hell in how the ejection system holds up over time.
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Posted: 6/19/2006 11:37:20 AM EDT
[#3]
I wouldn't comdem the rifle till I shot about 500 rounds of good quality brass cased ammo through it.
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Posted: 6/19/2006 12:06:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Robinson's XCR requires a break-in period with a gas regulator setting. Direct impingement doesn't have that problem 
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Posted: 6/19/2006 12:32:38 PM EDT
[#5]
I agree. See how it's doing after a few hundred rounds, then judge it.
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Posted: 6/19/2006 1:27:28 PM EDT
[#6]
I bought my M1 Garand as well as an M1A 30 years ago. Neither has ever malfunctioned…
What kind of a POS requires a 500 round breakin??? |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 1:36:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Probably one with a user adjustable gas system. FAL's, FNC's and others. Or maybe a 1911? My springfield came out of the box too tight and needed a break in period.
Remember, don't be a 
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Posted: 6/19/2006 1:44:42 PM EDT
[#8]
I don't think you ever mentioned what kind of ammo that you finally decided to use in your shooting test, did you?
If you use substandard ammo, it is very hard to judge the performance of the gun. For example, I bought a brand new M1A Super Match a number of years ago that cost a few hundred more than an FS2000 costs today. With surplus NATO ammo, it shot like a pile of crap. As soon as I put the Federal Gold Medal Match ammo in it, it shot sub half-MOA. That ammo was over $300 for a case of 500 rounds even back then! And I bought alot of cases of it for over $300 per 500 round case, because it shot well with it. |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 1:47:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Some of the modern guns use tighter inital manufacutring specs....Robinson guns are VERY tight from the factory but once broekn in they are smooth as hell. My M96 was the smoothest shooting 5.56 gun I have ever owned. Out of the box it was very tight. I cleaned it well, lubed the shit out of it and put the gas setting at 5 ( the highest ) and went to town for about 500 rounds. Thne I would drop it one setting per session. No malfs and it shot like a dream for the entire time I owned it. Had almost 10 thousand through it when I sold it.... |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 1:49:29 PM EDT
[#10]
desertmoon, thanks for the endorsement of the m96. I've always wanted one but feared lack of support in parts and the high cost.
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Posted: 6/19/2006 1:51:46 PM EDT
[#11]
and that IS the problem....with XCR in swing, the M96 is dead in the water.....which is unfortunate, mine was pretty awesome......there were things I didn't like about the M96 but functionality wasn't one of them.... |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 1:53:35 PM EDT
[#12]
I could just buy one cheap on a closeout and pray to gun-jesus that no parts break. Thanks.
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Posted: 6/19/2006 2:01:07 PM EDT
[#13]
LOL....get one with ALL of the updates and it probably won't ever break..... Now, back to the FN FS2000....... Accomplice...dude, instead of worrying about issues on a new EXPENSIVE gun because Wolf may or may not be causing you problems....pony up and go buy the half case of REAL ammo. You'll learn quickly that good guns and cheap crap ammo don't mix. |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 2:17:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Good guns are the ones that run even on the "crap" ammo. If the FS2000 were a 1/4 MOA sniper rifle, I would say use the GOOD ammo.
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Posted: 6/19/2006 2:24:37 PM EDT
[#15]
if it was a good gun it would feed all ammo within spec, no questions asked, right out of the box. he should have been able to pull the gun out of the box, wipe the shipping grease off of it, put some lube in there and fire off a couple thousand rounds of wolf on his first range trip without a single malfunction. i did about the same thing with every gun i have ever owned. AK's, glocks, berettas, rugers, 870's.... they all live on wolf new out of the box from day one and never give me grief. a gun he just paid about 3x more for then any of my toys should be able to do the same thing. if it cant, i sure as well wouldn't call it a good gun. expensive, but not good. |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 2:59:40 PM EDT
[#16]
According to FN, you aren't supposed to shoot steel cased ammo through the FS2000. So good that you decided against it. Do you suspect the ammo was at fault?
I still want an FS2000. EDIT: Or did you shoot Wolf? The FS2000's system wasn't designed to handle steel cased ammo! |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 3:18:21 PM EDT
[#17]
+1 on the break in period. I've never owned a gun that didn't need one. Glocks included.
The trolls are quick to damn the gun because they WANT it to fail. They want to see a gun costing that much to be a POS, that way it's more dramatic, and trolls LIVE on drama. |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 5:24:30 PM EDT
[#18]
I have not gotten a chance to fire my FS2000 yet and will hopefully do so within the week.
However, I was talking to a tech support person from FNUSA and he told me in no uncertain terms that I should not use Wolf ammo in the gun since wolf cases were off spec or something like that. Whatever it was, I was told iin no uncertain terms to NOT use Wolf ammo in the gun. Like many guns that are not AK's, this gun does not have the loose tolerances to function 100% with ammo that may be out of spec or of lower quality. Aks have loose tolerances and can function reliably with all types of third world ammo. This gun obviously doesn't. What I am afraid it boils down to is that it is an expensive gun that will not function reliable with cheap ammo. |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 5:29:56 PM EDT
[#19]
In memory of your kick ass, Guiness swilling, squirrel avatar, I am going to challenge you to think about that seriously for while. Would you buy an Accuracy International rifle and put a 49 dollar Simmons scope on it? ...and if you did....would you be angry that it wouldn't shoot worth a damn? I miss that avatar!!!! |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 5:30:30 PM EDT
[#20]
In memory of your kick ass, Guiness swilling, squirrel avatar, I am going to challenge you to think about that seriously for while. Would you buy an Accuracy International rifle and put a 49 dollar Simmons scope on it...with 12 dollar Walmart rings and 18 dollar Weaver Base? ...and if you did....would you be angry that it wouldn't shoot worth a damn? I miss that avatar!!!! |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 5:47:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Wolf ammo is poor at best, and we all know it. We've joked about it for years here on ARFCOM. Heck, it doesn't work reliably in our ARs, why would it work reliably in the FS2000?
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Posted: 6/19/2006 6:57:40 PM EDT
[#22]
 I'll try slipping that one in during tomorrow night's blessing. We'll see how it goes. |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 7:11:25 PM EDT
[#23]
I have shot a few types of ammo through my FS and found the same.
Cheap ammo has issues, ie Norico and American caused stoppages as described in my case. However you dont need to spend a fortune WBB works like a champ in mine. The issue it seems is the tight chamber some of the Norinco slowed the extraction to the point the ejection system sliced the case in 2 leaving half in the chamber. Try giving it a real good clean and lube and try again with some WBB or better you will love the weapon. |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 7:40:47 PM EDT
[#24]
NFI, nut why on god's green earth would you drop TWO GRAND on a rifle and run shit ammo through it???
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Posted: 6/19/2006 8:15:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Yeah, I agree with everyone else who has posted...we shouldn't hold a funeral for the weapon just yet as WOLF really is cheap and not the best ammo. I do use their rifle ammo with my AR, but I avoid the pistol ammo like the ebola virus as it is pure crap.
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Posted: 6/19/2006 11:06:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Fixed. |
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Posted: 6/19/2006 11:11:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Not passing the smell test for me. Something hinky about a brand new, $2000+ rifle and "testing" it with the cheapest shit you can find.
Jury is still out here. Pics? |
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Posted: 6/20/2006 2:41:46 AM EDT
[#28]
I've never had a problem with wolf vs. other ammo in the 20 or so AR, AK and HK types I've owned. The FN2000 should run trouble free on anything given the price we pay for it. I'm willing to assume that its my fault for leaving too much shipping grease in the gun. That said, I train far too often and go through way too many rounds to be paying $250 per case for ammo. In my experience, Wolf isn't as bad as everybody says it is. I think Wolf ammo gets the blame that should fall to a lot of less than perfectly functioning rifles. The gun needs to work when fed the ammo its chambered in, period. I'll go out on a limb to endulge everybody and pay a 10% premium over Wolf to try some other ammo but I'm not paying 50% more. I think I'll get the FS2000 sorted out and I very much hope so because when it goes bang its about the sweetest shooting gun I've come across.
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Posted: 6/20/2006 2:53:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Ive not had any trouble with mine, after about 400 rounds now. Clean it good with solvent and oil it lightly per the owners manual. I dont generally use Wolf ammo though.
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Posted: 6/20/2006 2:54:17 AM EDT
[#30]
<---- Is that better?  Putting a good scope on an AI is different from shooting cheap plinking ammo through an expensive weapon. The scope is there "forever" while you're just burning through ammo for plinking and practice. I suppose all of the ammo snobs here plinking at trash and practice 100% with Black Hills 77gr OTM or 75 gr OTM? My AR-15s run through Wolf w/o any major problems with good mags. My new, out of the box, self-built Bushmaster 16" M4 w/ stag upper parts, Ameetec lower, etc... (basically a mutt gun) was eating through my case of Wolf like it was a rabid wolverine on the munchies... Like I said before, if the FS2000 were a sub-MOA tack driver, I'd consider using good ammo ONLY. However, seeing Lord Skeletor's range report on HKPro, it doesn't appear to be a tack driver, probably comparable to any standard AR15. |
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Posted: 6/20/2006 4:29:32 AM EDT
[#31]
I know this is off-topic, but is the new Wolf still underpowered, like the old Wolf was?
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Posted: 6/20/2006 5:22:53 AM EDT
[#32]
According to Wolf, they (Tula probably) did increase the muzzle velocity slightly midway through 2005 due to customer demand. Last I heard, some people DID get the higher velocity Wolf in 2005 lots. I just got in some 2006 lot Wolf 223, so it should definitely be loaded to higher velocities. For what it is worth, NONE of my 2005 lot Wolf short stroked in my rifles to the extent it became a bolt-action. The 2003 and 2004 lots seemed problematic in my AR-15 before I attempted to "fix" the gas key. Out of about 1000 rd of the 2005 lot Wolf 223 (55/62 FMJ/JHP), I got 2 stuck cases and about 20 FTFeeds (most likely due to the Magpul Gen I followers). One AR was totally brand new (Bushmaster 16" M4 barrel), the other AR had about 900 rd through it already (Bushmaster 24" HBAR, a bunch of XM855PD and XM193). |
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Posted: 6/20/2006 7:31:24 AM EDT
[#33]
SWEEEET!!!! I love that squirrel....he's got some good taste!!!! I still can't begrudge the FS for not handling wolf. WWB or Eagle? Maybe.....but wolf ( though it certainly does work in many, many rifles ) is known for its "general" lack of quality OR suitabilty in NON-AK firearms. |
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Posted: 6/20/2006 10:01:44 AM EDT
[#34]
IMHO I always thought it odd that someone would pay thousands of dollars for a weapon and then shoot shit through it. I recall seeing a guy at the local gunrange who was very proud of the tricked out M1A Supermatch he had just picked up. I had heard weeks later that he ended up shooting some 3rd word crap through it and jammed the action big time, had to send it back to SAI. I always imagine the gunsmiths just shaking their heads, lol. |
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Posted: 6/20/2006 10:15:04 AM EDT
[#35]
Indian surplus .308 isn't the same as Wolf .223 Remington. Wolf is just inexpensive newly manufactured steel-cased ammo that has inconsistent (but always underpowered compared to SAAMI) powder and bullets. The bullets have thick copper jackets so they don't tend to fragment. The steel cases don't expand as rapidly as the brass cases, so some of the blowby residue wil seep into the chamber, causing it to "gum up" with carbon. The polymer coating they use is almost the same as the stuff FN HERSTAL uses on the 5.7x28 cases for easier extraction. It's just inexpensive plinking ammo. Not everyone can afford to plink thousands of Black Hills 77 gr SMKHP each range session. |
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Posted: 6/20/2006 10:44:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Good points all. However, I don't recall writing that one can only use Black Hills. Personally, I only shoot Lake City. If I want to "plink" I pull out the .22 In the end you get what you pay for... <shrug> |
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Posted: 6/21/2006 6:55:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Well, I broke down and ordered about 1,400 rds. of Radway Green ammo for the FS2000 today ($286 to my door). I field stripped the gun and sprayed CLP all over it and slapped it back together. We'll see how it runs with this ammo and I'll post a follow up. Anybody used Radway Green ammo in an FS2000 yet?
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Posted: 6/21/2006 9:22:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Id' be interested in how it likes mil-surp. |
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Posted: 6/23/2006 11:56:11 AM EDT
[#39]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/notgonnadothismuchlonger/more/74443_Dehuit_Philippe.jpg
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Posted: 6/23/2006 11:58:12 AM EDT
[#40]
cool. Who uses F2000s? |
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Posted: 6/24/2006 4:22:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Your so wrong in alot of whatyou just posted. Im not trying to flame but you might know alot about rifles but your missing out on the ammo side of things. The ammo is apart of your rifle system. Same can be said of the mags. Wolf is SHIT ammo. It is for plinking. Expect jams and misfeeds due to underpower rounds. Take atleast wsome WalMart winnie white box. It should do fine. Don't blame the rifle for weak ammo. Most rifles are designed to run properly on a certain pressure curve. Just trying to help,. Hope you get it straight. I shot the 62Gn RG through a 20" AR HBAR and it was flawless and accrate for what it is. Im takeing it to shoot in my next match. Good Luck Wardawg |
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Posted: 6/24/2006 4:50:00 AM EDT
[#42]
If the weapon is going to be used for SHTF/TEOTWAWKI scenarios, it must run on all different types of common ammo, which basically means if it runs on underpowered Wolf, it will run on practically anything that you might find.
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Posted: 6/24/2006 6:02:50 AM EDT
[#43]
I've experienced problems with Wolf in my 6920...
Must mean the 6920 is a shit gun just like the FS2000... (Please note sarcasm) If one gun (FS2000) is deemed to suck because it doesn't function reliably with Wolf ammo, then all guns that don't function reliably with Wolf ammo must also suck. Hence, the AR15 must suck. Come on guys, WOLF sucks, not the FS2000 nor the AR15. Just when the thread starts to come back to reality, someone jumps back in and says, "well, if the FS2000 was that good, it should be able to eat anything." |
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Posted: 6/24/2006 6:48:19 AM EDT
[#44]
Funny, my mutt gun AR15s eat Wolf just fine. They also run fine on XM855PD and XM193.
There are 6920s that run fine on Wolf as well. There are also Bushmasters that choke on Wolf, while other Bushmasters run fine on Wolf. However, there have been a few reports of misfeeds and malfunctions with PS90s and a few FS2000s. Considering the quantity of these weapons on the market (that are being used and not stored as safe queens), a few might be too many at this stage. The question becomes, why does the FS2000 choke on Wolf? Does it not have an adjustable regulator for the gas piston system? Is it because the chamber is too tight? If I had a gun that was so picky on ammo that it absolutely HAD to eat only high quality brass cased ammo, I would sell it to someone who has no problem with doing that. I also refuse to own a car that absolutely must use 89 or higher octane fuel. In case of SHTF scenarios like Katrina, the only gas you may get is 87 octane. Knock sensors are only going to do smuch to prevent detonation on a high comp motor or a supercharged engine. I'm not rich enough to stockpile 10,000+ Black Hills cartridges or use Black Hills for plinking ammo (extreme end of ammo selection). Lake City surplus bulk-packed XM855PD or XM193PD is great if you don't mind sorting through thousands of cartridges to make sure it doesn't Ka BOOM your AR. |
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Posted: 6/24/2006 6:55:10 AM EDT
[#45]
My point exactly, Metroplex. We have ONE guy here who started a post mentioning that Wolf ammo had some hiccups during his FS2000 break-in session. Then everyone jumps in that "well, Wolf works in MYparticular AR15, so the FS2000 must suck."
Yet we all know that Wolf doesn't work in EVERY AR15 out there. In fact MANY AR15s out there experience hiccups with Wolf. SOME do...SOME don't (you have been blessed with one that doesn't). Just like SOME FS2000s will experience hiccups with Wolf and SOME won't. We can't condemn the FS2000, nor the AR15, based on their inability to function properly on WOLF ammo EVERY time and on EVERY rifle produced. Remember, our sample size here for this FS2000 bashing is ONE. Hardly a sample size on which to base an opinion. Update: I'm tired of arguing...let's just wait and see how this pans out in the long run, you freakin beer-drinking squirrel Have a good one! |
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Posted: 6/24/2006 5:03:53 PM EDT
[#46]
I went to a carbine class at Tiger Valley (I believe this is MaDeuce's place) where we had to use hollowpoints because of the contract he had with the people he leased the range space from that specified no FMJ. Half of the classes' AR's were choking on the Wolf, though mine did okay.
If you want something that will digest anything, you don't want an FS2000 or an AR-15. You want an AK. Metroplex, If you have an FS2000 I think you should sell the gun because it doesn't sound like you will ever trust it or be happy with it. I've been there myself and the best thing to do is generally declare the gun a curio to yourself--some interesting nic-nack that goes bang, or sell the gun. |
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Posted: 6/24/2006 5:14:51 PM EDT
[#47]
+1 |
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Posted: 6/25/2006 12:45:49 PM EDT
[#48]
With Wolf you should probably try using the adverse gas setting. Wolf is underpowered compared to military ammo.
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Posted: 6/25/2006 2:02:47 PM EDT
[#49]
I don't know about the Radway Green that's been sold recently, but a whole bunch of it that was floating around a few years ago was considerably underpowered. You might want to take a look at this thread: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=169729
Going by it's rank compared to others, it's certainly not the best stuff out there. Not the worst either though. Good luck with it. If it doesn't work, I'd say you should spring for a case of some known good quality ammo regardless of the price and see how it does. If it functions okay with that, then you just have to decide if you like the rifle enough to feed it only good ammo or if you want to sell it and buy something less picky. |
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Posted: 6/26/2006 2:37:54 AM EDT
[#50]
15,000 rounds of Wolf through my AR's....without incident.
That's about $1,500 in savings over brass ammo, some of which has run worse than Wolf for me. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it through the FN, nor would I be impressed if the rifle wouldn't eat it. |
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