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Posted: 3/23/2007 10:12:19 AM EDT
Got my new Black FS2000 and my trigger pack looks different than what is pictured in the manual, There is a pin up front with nothing there! Does anyone know if FN has changed anything in the pack, did they forget a part, is my gun safe to shoot, should I call FN?
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Posted: 3/23/2007 10:42:53 AM EDT
[#1]
Interesting. (...long, dramatic, thoughtful pause...) Very interesting.
Can you take a picture of your trigger pack? If it's what I think it is, it might be carried over to the PS90 line as well. Or rather, that might be omitted on the PS90 line as well. |
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Posted: 3/23/2007 10:51:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Sorry no pic abilities my computer Kung Fu is weak........ The part in question is the top pin just foward of the hammer ''in the picture in the FS2000 manual on page 43'' my tigger pack has a pin but no part!!! Why would they omit a part? The PS90 has it omitted as well?!?!?
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Posted: 3/23/2007 10:58:15 AM EDT
[#3]
How old is your FS2000? I'll try to find some pics of the FS2000 trigger pack, label them, post them here, and have you point out which part is missing. I'll try to do this this evening when I get home from work. |
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Posted: 3/23/2007 11:00:39 AM EDT
[#4]
My Black FS2000 is 24 hrs old, and thanks for the help I will check back 4 sure!
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Posted: 3/23/2007 11:23:08 AM EDT
[#5]
What serial number range? Mine is all black 00062XX.
I don't remember the configuration of my trigger pack off the top of my head. I'll check it when I get home. ETA: Oh, and congrats on the FS2000! You'll love it! |
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Posted: 3/23/2007 11:35:04 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm just going to come and say that I believe FN may be removing a component that prevents out-of-battery firing. However scary that sounds - don't worry. If for some reason the hammer follows the bolt carrier (...or bolt in the case of the PS90...) home, it shouldn't have enough energy to crush the primer. Another thing, it may be the case that the firing pin cannot protrude enough to crush the primer unless the bolt has rotated to the locked position.
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Posted: 3/23/2007 1:57:50 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm not sure, but I think that the PS90 and FS2000 trigger packs are similar if not interchangeable.
The trigger packs we've seen up until now look like this image...  Your trigger pack probably looks like this...  Am I on the right track here? |
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Posted: 3/23/2007 4:42:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Yes sir, you are the most correct person in the universe!
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Posted: 3/23/2007 4:51:58 PM EDT
[#9]
It seems, then, that the good folks at FN have taken action, hopefully preemptive, to ensure that ne'er-do-wells will not have an easy time illegally modifying PS90s and FS2000s to function fully automatically.
I think it's a great move by FN - especially if they did this without prodding from any regulatory agencies. What you're missing is the autosear. Why they ever shipped semi auto guns with them, I will never know. I've taken mine out - as the pictures show - and put in the safe. I am hesitant to throw it away or otherwise destroy it - one day, they may recall them or some such thing and I don't want to be left out of the loop. Let me know how you like your FS2000... As happy as I am with my PS90s, I should get off my ass and pick up a FS2000. |
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Posted: 3/23/2007 5:04:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Dummy! The safety sear acts as a safety device. It allows the hammer to drop ONLY when the bolt is fully seated into battery. Put it back in your gun. The disconnector hooks in the pack prevent full auto fire. |
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Posted: 3/23/2007 5:11:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Um, yeah. Sure, you're technically right. Tell me where the safety sear is on the AR15?! If the hammer follows the bolt carrier - it doesn't carry enough energy. The same is true with the PS90... The fact is that FN should not have included the autosear in the trigger packs. The PS90 and the FS2000 are a very strange example of our less than uniformly enforced gun laws. |
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Posted: 3/23/2007 5:24:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Actually I spoke with Bob Ailies at FN late today and he told me it is called the "foward sear" and it is supposed to be it the gun! He asked that I not shoot the gun till I speak with him again on Monday. I will give an update on what happens, I just hope I dont have to send in my new gun!
Its pretty sad when you wait over 3 months and then pay over $2000.00 then you have to send the damn thing back before you can even shoot it!
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Posted: 3/23/2007 5:34:47 PM EDT
[#13]
I wonder if someone didn't remove that "forward sear" just to be "safe"... ie: a dealer or someone before you got the gun. |
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Posted: 3/23/2007 5:39:05 PM EDT
[#14]
The gun was new in the box strait from Tanners, if they tampered with my gun which I hope is not the case I will not be pleased.
A gun firing out of battery sounds like a law suit to me.......
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Posted: 3/23/2007 6:42:04 PM EDT
[#15]
I have ordered many guns from Tanners, and know that them "tampering" with the gun wouldn't be the case. They have had literally 100's of FS2000's ordered, no need to play with order xxxx. A gun "firing out of battery" is not a lawsuit waiting to happen. You are looking at it the wrong way. If anything, it's a serial number waiting to make money. If not, it's a collectors item. 
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Posted: 3/23/2007 6:53:07 PM EDT
[#16]
The AR only relies on the disconnector to prevent FA fire. If the disconnector is worn or not present, then YES an AR will slam fire. It's time to step off the paranoia express and utilize all the safety features that were factory designed into the gun. |
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Posted: 3/23/2007 7:29:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Although I'm not a gunsmith I really fail to see why removing the safety sear would be considered a good idea or even a particularly safe thing to do....while it sounds great to say "..don't worry, the bolt hasn't rotated to free the firing pin" remember that the recall for firing out-of-battery was WITH the safety sear in place. Sure it's lighter and captive now but still... On a side note - that is SERIOUSLY fucked up if a new gun shipped with that piece unintentionally missing. Damn. |
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Posted: 3/24/2007 3:41:23 AM EDT
[#18]
The recall was not for firing out of battery, it was for slam fires caused by too heavy a firing pin.
GlenR |
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Posted: 3/24/2007 7:23:51 AM EDT
[#19]
The only bright spot so far in this is Bob A. at FN and his diligence to resolve the matter quickly. If FN has chosen to remove a safety devise and I don’t see that being the case, I am sure Bob will say as much. It does pi$$ me off to think I paid a new price for a gun that has been used or tampered with if that’s the case. On the other hand if the factory forgot the part then FN should make it right! From what I have read on the boards FN has an excellent reputation so I don’t anticipate many problems, as I stated earlier Bob jumped on this really quick and I expect to hear from him Monday and I plan to keep all of you informed.
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Posted: 3/24/2007 12:04:47 PM EDT
[#20]
M4-Daddy - What you have in your FS2000 is in fact the semi-auto "Hammer Group" - Not the FA "Hammer Group" as depicted in the FS2000 FN Owner's Manual.
I just dis-assembled my FS2000 to look at the "Hammer Group" and noted that the part that is missing from the photo as depicted in the manual is the "auto sear" or "forward sear" which notches to the "forward hammer sear" when in FA mode. The "auto sear" or "forward sear" would only be tripped when the bolt carrier closes and goes into battery. The steel lever in the rear of the "Hammer Group" would be a different part and configuration in the FA "Hammer Group" to hold the disconnector wings out of the way during FA mode. That's the part that traps the hammer in the cocked position between shots if the trigger is held to the rear during semi-auto firing. I think you'll find that you have the correct "semi-auto" "Hammer Group" which is different from the "FA" "Hammer Group" as depicted in the Owner's Manual. You should also note that the PS2000 "Hammer Group" is different in dimensions and NOT inter-changeable with the PS90 "Hammer Group". Not being able to see your specific "Hammer Group" to know for sure, you should still check with Robert Ailes at FN to make sure everything is in correct order with your rifle. Hope this information is helpful - You'll enjoy your FS2000 |
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Posted: 3/24/2007 12:50:58 PM EDT
[#21]
FEINC....please take a photo of your FS2000 hammer group and post it. I'd like to see what you have in your rifle.
From what you're saying it sounds like you don't have the safety sear installed either, is that correct? |
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Posted: 3/24/2007 1:35:04 PM EDT
[#22]
While I`m all for the open disscussion of all things firearms related, this might not be the best thing to discuss on an open, public internet forum until every thing is squared away with FN. Judging by FN's initially responese it seems like to just be a small error in assembly or some point in the manufacturing/distributrion process. It doesnt seem like it is some vast conspiracy to take away a nice saftey feature from out ps90s and fs2000, and I dont think its best to poke the sleeping bear, the ATF that is, so to speak by talking about how some unscrupulous characters can modify things. Those of us with ps90's with safety sears, or "breech block safeties" as I have heard in FN nomenclature, would like to keep them that way; so it might be best for everyone to edit there posts and move this to PM, email, or some other private form of communication. No sense in giving ANYONE any ideas.
Just IMHO, YMMV, etc. |
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Posted: 3/24/2007 1:47:58 PM EDT
[#23]
A friend of mine just bought a PS90 30 minutes ago and it has the part in quesition, why would FN drop the part from the FS2000 and not the ps90????? I think FN might have just forgot to put the thing in, no harm done as long as they make it right, and yes I have every confidence in Bob A. at FN, he seemed very concerned about my rifle as well as my safety.
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Posted: 3/25/2007 3:02:19 AM EDT
[#24]
I was just thinking...... my FS2000 trigger pack has the pins glued in place. I can not take mine apart or take parts out of it. How about everyone else?
GlenR |
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Posted: 3/26/2007 6:40:54 AM EDT
[#26]
That FS2000 pack looks like it even has a different hammer w/o the sear engagement cuts.
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Posted: 3/26/2007 6:49:31 AM EDT
[#27]
The hammer does have the notch to engage the forward sear, and the housing itself has the provisions for the sear's spring, it simply doesn't have the sear.
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Posted: 3/26/2007 11:38:59 AM EDT
[#28]
And that is a much more serious problem because your face and head are right by the area of the gun that will turn into a hand grenade if there is an out of battery detonation. It is a much more serious problem with a "bullpup" style firearm. If an AR15 blows up, your head is not touching the area that blows. I think that FN will be making a very serious mistake if they decide to remove the forward sear (fire out of battery safety sear) from both the FS2000 and the PS90. |
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Posted: 3/26/2007 5:27:56 PM EDT
[#29]
1st off I would like to say thank you Fargo, how ironic you should post right in front of me, you just echoed my thoughts perfectly! I spoke with Bob at FN this morning and to my sadness learned that all FN FS2000's have the trigger pack mine has "with out the safety sear", he could not say when the modification had started but it was indeed correct pack and all FS2000 have this feature now.
 I stressed to Bob at FN that I had concerns about my brain-pan being in such close proximity to the chamber where an out of battery discharge could occur  and let him know that this was a great concern to myself and other shooters and he seemed very concerned and said he would look in on the matter further. I cannot state enough how quick FN got on this, and once again my hat is off to Bob at FN. It is indeed a sad time when a important safety feature must be sacrificed to please the anti gun crowd because of the actions of a few who seek to break the law, and I hope no one is harmed by this mod for the sake of political correctness. Once again kudos to FN for bringing such a fine weapon to market when even home grown heroes like Colt shy from bringing such weapons to market in their own country. I hope that this post was helpful to all the lawful FS2000 owners out there and if there is any further up dates I will keep you all informed. 
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Posted: 3/27/2007 7:33:25 AM EDT
[#30]
My FS s/n 0057XX, has the sear in place.
As I understand, an AR will not have an out of battery ignition if the disconnector is damaged or missing. If you look at the hammer on a simi AR, you will see a notch in the face of it. If the disconnector is removed and the hammer follows the bolt carrier home, the ring on the firing pin will catch on the notch in the hammer and prevent the b/c from chambering a round, preventing an out of battery ignition. This is one reason the M16 and AR components are different. Not intended as a hijack, so no pissing contest, please. If you want to read it for yourself, see "Black Rifle II", pg. 236. |
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Posted: 3/27/2007 11:02:27 AM EDT
[#31]
Is this what it looks like with the sear in place?
 Sorry, but I am confused by this thread. Is this a safety piece or something that lends itself to select fire IF OTHER COMPONENTS ARE ADDED? If I remember correctly, a select fire trigger pack will not fit in the FS2000. BTW, I have dealt with Bob A and FN and he is a prince of a guy. I cannot say enough nice things about him. |
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Posted: 3/28/2007 5:51:04 AM EDT
[#32]
The piece in the far left of your pic is the part they are talking about. It is the Auto Sear but serves as an added safety device in the semi auto version of the rifle.
This begs the question are the older models with the sear collectible now? |
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Posted: 3/28/2007 5:58:35 AM EDT
[#33]
My PS90 has the sear in place. I'm not sure when they removed it from the design.
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Posted: 3/28/2007 6:00:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Original PS90 hammer group before they went to the non-collectible white plastic:
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Posted: 4/3/2007 3:43:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Anybody who has the front sear may be hearing from FN, and if ignored, ATF. Some "unnecessary" parts need to be removed. You never needed them anyway!
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Posted: 4/3/2007 4:03:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Both My FS2000 and PS90 have the part in question (and the PS90 was the non-collectible white -- atleast until it met my friend RIT. I also dyed the FS2000 pack because i couldn't stand that white peaking out from the sling slots).
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Posted: 4/7/2007 5:33:36 AM EDT
[#37]
 Sig forums is where I believe it was posted, and yes FN is going to replace his weapon. So as for unnecessary parts???????
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Posted: 4/7/2007 11:17:58 AM EDT
[#38]
It is a nessary part for safe function. It stops out of batery detonations from happening when your firing a weapon thats chamber is right by your neck, ear, face, jaw, and eyes. I wouldnt touch a PS90 or FH2000 with a 10' pole if the safety sear was removed. Your just asking for a big hospital bill, lost income because you cant work or it could even kill you if a piece of shapnel hit your neck when shooting without it. |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 11:37:30 AM EDT
[#39]
I can't understand for the life of me why they would remove it. It seem to be there only to catch the hammer and prevent out of battery detonations. Why delete it? |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 12:58:16 PM EDT
[#40]
If FNH decides that they dont want the safety sear in the PS90 and FS2000, they should just pull any new sippments and stop selling to civilians, then offer a buyback program for any that have been shipped without the saftey sear. Someone's going to get hurt and FNH is going to be liable. |
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Posted: 4/7/2007 2:52:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Funny that BATFE didn't notice this issue when it was approved for civi sale. Also, funny that FNH and BATFE are currently unaware of the issue. Nothing beats a good internet rumor.
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Posted: 4/8/2007 8:13:29 AM EDT
[#42]
Just a little clarification from a friend of mine who had the same issues as I regarding the FS2000 trigger packs. Here's his answer to me:
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Posted: 4/8/2007 8:40:19 AM EDT
[#43]
I made up a guy somewhere in the mid west, who shot his ps90 and then was arrested. A non comment from FNH was made that all gray stock ps90 were definitely illegal and they were sorry. Expect a visitor soon.
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Posted: 4/8/2007 10:03:58 AM EDT
[#44]
The person Noriko is quoting is me. FN assured me this whole "issue" is a non-issue and that people are blowing it all out of proportion. It seems to me that between the ATF, FN and the internet this thing has become somewhat of a behemoth when in reality it is mundane.
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Posted: 4/8/2007 1:36:10 PM EDT
[#45]
 Yeah that's about what I was expecting. Sometimes the quality and quantity of misinformation around here is truly staggering.
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Posted: 4/8/2007 5:09:02 PM EDT
[#46]
I don't really see it, but since I'm no expert and I don't have a full auto pack in front of me, that's no surprise. I never thought it was meant slow the hammer in conjunction with the auto-sear. It makes sense. I thought the forward sear was there to prevent the hammer from being released and striking the firing pin before the weapon was fully into battery. Thank you for clearing that up. Well, now since that's settled, what else can we blow out of proportion? 
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Posted: 4/9/2007 5:47:39 PM EDT
[#47]
If a second sear is required for illegal full auto, why did they remove the forward safety sear which prevents the out of battery discharge!!! What are they going to do when some Bozo makes a forward and rear sear? Maybe they should just glue the FUC#@NG gun shut?!
Where does it end!?
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Posted: 4/12/2007 8:47:16 PM EDT
[#48]
I have had trouble with my "forward sear" in my PS90. The first time I shot it, the first 30 rounds were fine, but the last 20 rounds had ten failures because the trigger was not resetting. The forward sear was hanging after my finger had released the trigger and not allowing releasing. Sometimes it would release about a second after my finger left the trigger, others, I had to whack the side of the gun to get it to release.
I chalked it up to shipping grease getting into the trigger pack and cleaned it up. I can still get it to do this when dry firing, but it hasn't happened again in live fire. If I dry fire and hold my finger on the trigger while cycling the bolt, about 50% of the time the trigger will not reset and I will have to either wait or whack the weapon (or re-cycle the bolt) to get it to work. I think maybe the gun is a little "too safe" with this part in place, but I don't want to get rid of it. Has anyone else had this happen, or can you duplicate the problem while dry-firing? I don't try to keep my finger on the trigger too long after firing, but I guess that's how I initially had the problem. |
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Posted: 4/15/2007 12:58:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Too safe?
Seriously please take up stamp collecting before you hurt yourself! And no I dont mean this as a insult. A full blow back weapon like the PS-90 can never be "too safe", take out the forward sear and blow of half of your face off with that bull-pup type weapon due to the chamber pressure and then go whine to a lawyer about how you thought it was over engineered so you thought you would take out the forward sear and then shoot said gun.... What no takers??? Yeah, I thought so.
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Posted: 4/15/2007 2:07:21 PM EDT
[#50]
I'm not insulted. I was just saying the gun won't fire, even when you want it to because of this piece. I am well aware of the dangers with bullpup guns. I am not taking the sear out. I am not a gunsmith, engineer, or otherwise qualified to "improve" on a firing mechanism. |
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