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Posted: 12/3/2020 5:28:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Outrider]
I see that the other thread was archived (I did not participate in it) but I recently bought a pistol from Recon Ordnance and figured I'd get discussion going again. I was turned on to the vz. 61 due to .32 ACP. I picked up a surplus Beretta 81BB this year and fell in love with it as a suppressor host. Low recoil and sounds fantastic. Being a lover of SMGs, PDWs, suppressors, and SBR's the vz. 61 was a natural fit.
As received from Recon Ordnance  With an Isle Mfg optic mount and rear pic rail mount. I'm struggling to decide what to do with this pistol. I plan to SBR it but I'm torn on keeping it traditional looking or modernizing it a bit for full practicality. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2023 10:42:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Nothing too exciting. A few good questions that I'll be responding to in a post when everything is done.
Finish was 2/3rds being fine with in the white, with 1/3 wanting some finish. Over the next few nights I'm going to be experimenting with Caswells "black oxide" (cold blue). The one thing that was neat was the interest. Assuming I don't mess any of them up, I may not have any left over for open sales. |
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Posted: 9/25/2023 10:59:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#2]
Fuck- someone offered me a really good deal on a scorpion (9mm not .32). I really don’t want another 9mm project (already have a MP5 and a sig MPX), but it’s really really tempting
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Posted: 9/25/2023 11:01:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: agb104983]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Fuck- someone offered me a really good deal on a scorpion. I really don’t want another 9mm project (already have a MP5 and a sig MPX), but it’s really really tempting Are you talking about a VZ61 Skorpion or a Skorpion Evo3? Edit: I see you corrected your post to 9mm(Evo 3) not 32 ACP(vz61) |
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Posted: 9/25/2023 11:35:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Solar991: Nothing too exciting. A few good questions that I'll be responding to in a post when everything is done. Finish was 2/3rds being fine with in the white, with 1/3 wanting some finish. Over the next few nights I'm going to be experimenting with Caswells "black oxide" (cold blue). The one thing that was neat was the interest. Assuming I don't mess any of them up, I may not have any left over for open sales. Thanks for the update. I've pretty much benched my Vz61 until the adapter is out. I can't stand the wire stock but don't want something modern on there. I think the 58 adapter will reignite my interest in the platform. |
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Posted: 9/25/2023 11:52:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: Are you talking about a VZ61 Skorpion or a Skorpion Evo3? Edit: I see you corrected your post to 9mm(Evo 3) not 32 ACP(vz61) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Fuck- someone offered me a really good deal on a scorpion. I really don’t want another 9mm project (already have a MP5 and a sig MPX), but it’s really really tempting Are you talking about a VZ61 Skorpion or a Skorpion Evo3? Edit: I see you corrected your post to 9mm(Evo 3) not 32 ACP(vz61) Yeah- sorry about that. Wasn’t trying to junk up the thread, just whining about my moral conundrum. Like I said earlier- the Klobb is so ugly that it’s worked its way back around to being cool. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/28/2023 3:16:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Solar991]
[#6]
 I've got about 1/3rd of them tapped. Hoping to get the rest done by the weekend. Note: I'm drilling to final size and tapping the mount hole by hand. Why? Because I'm an idiot. As you can see from the picture, I've also tested bluing on three of them. They came out 'fine', but they didn't come out how I'd like, but my acetone was contaminated and I've upped the concentration. So going to do more tests this weekend. Parts turned out great from CNC. Some of my radii are just slightly off enough to bug me, but not enough to be angry about them. I will likely (but no promises) be contacting people next week about sales. However, I will only be contacting those who filled out the form (and a few members who showed interest years ago) Questions: Why not cerakote/nitride/rattlecan? - Timelines and skill. Production finishes were going to double production time, and I suck with a rattlecan. This black oxide/cold blue is much more scientific and repeatable. If anyone remembers the form, I mentioned a cross country move. That's happening later this month. If you want to blast and paint yours. Go for it. I 100% support it. Will this work with a Vz58 side folder? - Yes. However if you have your stock wrapped in paracord or similar, it may make it difficult to charge using the right side knob. Any reason 3D printing it won't work? - No there isn't, if it's done right. My prototypes were 3d printed. However I wanted something that would survive a beating. Why not aluminum? It's cheaper. - I was paranoid about galvanic corrosion and galling threads. What is going to be included? - You will get: 1x adapter - Likely wearing a heavy coat CLP 2x small mounting screws and washers - You will need: 1x SBR'd Vz61 receiver 1x Vz58 stock and mounting hardware |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 9:26:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: agb104983]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Solar991: https://i.imgur.com/G9dOyTp.jpg I've got about 1/3rd of them tapped. Hoping to get the rest done by the weekend. Note: I'm drilling to final size and tapping the mount hole by hand. Why? Because I'm an idiot. As you can see from the picture, I've also tested bluing on three of them. They came out 'fine', but they didn't come out how I'd like, but my acetone was contaminated and I've upped the concentration. So going to do more tests this weekend. Parts turned out great from CNC. Some of my radii are just slightly off enough to bug me, but not enough to be angry about them. Note: I'm drilling to final size and tapping the mount hole by hand. Why? Because I'm an idiot. I will likely (but no promises) be contacting people next week about sales. However, I will only be contacting those who filled out the form (and a few members who showed interest years ago) Questions: Why not cerakote/nitride/rattlecan? - Timelines and skill. Production finishes were going to double production time, and I suck with a rattlecan. This black oxide/cold blue is much more scientific and repeatable. If anyone remembers the form, I mentioned a cross country move. That's happening later this month. If you want to blast and paint yours. Go for it. I 100% support it. Will this work with a Vz58 side folder? - Yes. However if you have your stock wrapped in paracord or similar, it may make it difficult to charge using the right side knob. Any reason 3D printing it won't work? - No there isn't, if it's done right. My prototypes were 3d printed. However I wanted something that would survive a beating. Why not aluminum? It's cheaper. - I was paranoid about galvanic corrosion and galling threads. What is going to be included? - You will get: 1x adapter - Likely wearing a heavy coat CLP 2x small mounting screws and washers - You will need: 1x SBR'd Vz61 receiver 1x Vz58 stock and mounting hardware I think I was the ones that originally said just give it to me raw, but now I really like the way that blueing looks on those |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2023 9:37:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for updates!
F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5... |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2023 6:52:43 PM EDT
[#9]
I've got good news, and I've got bad news.
Good news - All the holes are drilled and tapped. Adapters are cleaned and prepped for bluing this weekend. Bad news - I knew my freehand drill/tap had a chance to go cockeyed, but I didn't think it'd be as many as I ended up messing up. I got sloppy when I had a dull drill bit. Will likely offer those ones as blems for a cheaper price. (cockeyed holes have no effect on the sidefolding stock, due to the much shorter screw) |
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Posted: 9/29/2023 10:11:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Which hole is bad? I'd take a bad one right now and repair it.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2023 11:07:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Solar991]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CKxx: Which hole is bad? I'd take a bad one right now and repair it. The center hole for the 58 stock bolt. It's a trivial repair for anyone with a mill and who isn't worried about reusing original hardware. Just need to rebore it to a 1/2" or 9/16" and thread of their choice. But truthfully, for most people they're probably not even worth repairing. They're just not something I'm willing to sell without the buyer understanding that the adapter isn't up to my standards. For anyone curious, here are images of the eight blem adapters: https://imgur.com/a/eQkGuDY |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2023 4:32:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Final update before I start contacting people in the coming days.
I'm not happy with the bluing. A good number of them came out very nice. However a not insignificant number came out with splotches, no matter how I tried to fix them. So I'm considering it a base coat, with a heavy recommendation that the buyer applies a final finish of their choice. Price will be $85 shipped via PP G&S (that includes the fees/shipping), or $75 for one with the cockeyed hole (see link in previous comment, claim by number). Will ship USPS w/ tracking. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2023 12:34:07 AM EDT
[#13]
I've contacted everyone who's expressed interest in the adapters, and I have shipped all of the ones that have been paid for.
Still have most of the blems, and a handful of standard ones left. If anyone else is interested, just shoot me a PM. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2023 12:37:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: thatARMSguy]
[#14]
I've got a really nice 1973 parts kit, I'd like to get it rewelded to keep it more original and because I don't want to have to use a bolt-on dovetail plate, but I haven't found anyone who can do it. Is it worth going through the hassle of rewinding an original demilled receiver or should I just suck it up and buy a reconord receiver and a plate from czechpoint? Also, how easy is it to pin the barrel in place? I got it in place by hammering it into alignment with the bolt and it looks to be properly seated, the bolt sits all the way forward and the guide rods extend about half a millimeter past the end of the upper which matches pictures I've seen.
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Posted: 10/9/2023 8:18:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: fury413rb]
[#15]
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USA
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Posted: 10/10/2023 7:00:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fury413rb: I just got my kit from bowman. Barrel looks brand new but the pin has been drilled. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/319551/71823244820__ABBAA551-AD35-4207-ACBC-87A-2984633.JPG Is the barrel damaged or pinhole enlarged from the drilling? Or is the barrel fine and you just need a new pin to install it in a gun? Czechpoint has pins btw. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2023 10:33:05 PM EDT
[#17]
@solar991
Fantastic job!   |
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Posted: 10/11/2023 7:29:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R3dundantC: @solar991 Fantastic job! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/283827406723350529/1161490018905366569/20231010_192618.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/283827406723350529/1161490005080936588/20231010_192550.jpg That is awesome. I’m going the fixed stock route but yours is pretty convincing. |
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Posted: 10/12/2023 1:47:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: agb104983]
[#19]
Got it installed today. Looks great and seems to work great. I went ahead and put it on the full auto converted dealer sample VZ61 we have in the SOT I am a part of. I love the folding stock and have it on most of my guns, but definitely wanted to have at least one solid stock for shits and giggles.
I used the early wood VZ58 stocks that they used before they switched to the beaver barf stock sets. Eventually, I want to strip the stock and the pistol grip and stain them both the same color but it’s close enough for now.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/14/2023 3:06:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Fixed stock is money. Can't wait to shoot it but it feels so much better. Waited two years for this to happen.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/14/2023 8:26:29 PM EDT
[#21]
These wood stocks are looking good.
I'm glad people are liking the adapters. |
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Posted: 10/14/2023 10:40:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Solar991: These wood stocks are looking good. I'm glad people are liking the adapters. Thanks for making it happen! |
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Posted: 10/15/2023 9:55:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Any of you have a decent source for the stock or hardware? I'm out of the loop.
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Posted: 10/15/2023 8:11:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CKxx: Any of you have a decent source for the stock or hardware? I'm out of the loop. I’ve bought from Apex Gun parts and Gatewood supply before. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/16/2023 1:18:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CKxx: Any of you have a decent source for the stock or hardware? I'm out of the loop. |
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Posted: 10/17/2023 1:43:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Received my stock block today. It looks pretty good. I'll try to find a stock for it next month at SAR WEST.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2023 2:29:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Heads up on the remaining adapters, I have to suspend sales as I am now officially packing to move across country.
The few I have left will likely be sold in a standard marketplace post once I've settled in and unpacked everything. However, good news: I'm working on a version 2 of the adapter which will fix the top radius that I wasn't happy with. It will also be tapped and (possibly) finished by the CNC company. Meaning that there will not be any blems. The extra work will likely affect the final price, but I haven't gotten any quotes or finished implementing the changes. So it's still months off. (An old quote I had shows finished parts being ~30% more expensive) Additionally I've been playing with two prototypes: A picatinny adapter. Which I'll likely offer as a 3d printed product, or with enough interest as a CNC'd aluminum version. A factory dovetail adapter. For our rewelders and our international friends. However that one requires extensive reworking of the model so it is a long ways off. |
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Posted: 10/18/2023 2:44:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: agb104983]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Solar991: Heads up on the remaining adapters, I have to suspend sales as I am now officially packing to move across country. The few I have left will likely be sold in a standard marketplace post once I've settled in and unpacked everything. However, good news: I'm working on a version 2 of the adapter which will fix the top radius that I wasn't happy with. It will also be tapped and (possibly) finished by the CNC company. Meaning that there will not be any blems. The extra work will likely affect the final price, but I haven't gotten any quotes or finished implementing the changes. So it's still months off. (An old quote I had shows finished parts being ~30% more expensive) Additionally I've been playing with two prototypes: A picatinny adapter. Which I'll likely offer as a 3d printed product, or with enough interest as a CNC'd aluminum version. A factory dovetail adapter. For our rewelders and our international friends. However that one requires extensive reworking of the model so it is a long ways off. FYI, the dovetail solid stock adapter would be highly sought after over in the Czech Republic. In most countries(USA, UK, etc), we have the CSA guns with no dovetail and just the two threaded holes. However, in the Czech Republic, most of their guns are just neutered full auto guns, so they have the original dovetail. I know some adapters exist because I’ve seen them pop up in old ads online on the secondhand market,, but very few were made whenever someone made them and I know there is a lot of demand. Lots of people posting on the Czech VZ61 Facebook pages on a regular basis looking for them, and the answer is basically good luck. On a sidenote if you really want to cry, I’d have to go back and look, but I want to say that a VZ61 over there that has been neutered so it’s legal it is readily available and I think somewhere less than $200 |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2023 9:51:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Anyone else waiting for a replacement receiver from southern tactical? The last batch had some that were out of spec causing feeding issues and no lock back on empty. I contacted them back in June and they offered to replace it with one from the new batch which was supposed to take a month or so. They are quick to respond but the upcoming batch seems to keep getting pushed back month after month. I just want to shoot this thing! and form 1 it....and suppress it....
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Posted: 10/19/2023 1:44:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: agb104983]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By --FLEET--: Anyone else waiting for a replacement receiver from southern tactical? The last batch had some that were out of spec causing feeding issues and no lock back on empty. I contacted them back in June and they offered to replace it with one from the new batch which was supposed to take a month or so. They are quick to respond but the upcoming batch seems to keep getting pushed back month after month. I just want to shoot this thing! and form 1 it....and suppress it.... Supposedly, I’m on that list. I was one of the first to probably contact them because initially they claimed they looked into it and they were no spec issues but after 3 weeks emailed me back and promised a replacement. I assume other people contacted them about it and they realized I wasn’t just a crackpot, and there was a systemic issue. The timeline for me was I emailed them at the end of March and after a couple days of them looking into it they emailed me back and said there were no issues. Mid April I got an email from them, saying that they had had some issues in their batch, and they would be shipping me a replacement lower when the next batch was completed. I sent them an email back in early May to update my FFL information. At that time I got a response and they claimed they would be looking at hopefully having them done by the end of the month(May). I checked back in with them in mid June and at the end of July and neither one of those emails got a response. As a sidenote, could you message me the email you’ve been corresponding with them through? All of my correspondence has been with Alex W so maybe you have an email of someone that is a little more responsive, since my last two check-in emails have gone unanswered. |
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Posted: 10/23/2023 9:51:39 PM EDT
[#31]
I just ordered a southern receiver from Centerfire. They are back in stock
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IA, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2023 9:09:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: --FLEET--]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: Supposedly, I’m on that list. I was one of the first to probably contact them because initially they claimed they looked into it and they were no spec issues but after 3 weeks emailed me back and promised a replacement. I assume other people contacted them about it and they realized I wasn’t just a crackpot, and there was a systemic issue. The timeline for me was I emailed them at the end of March and after a couple days of them looking into it they emailed me back and said there were no issues. Mid April I got an email from them, saying that they had had some issues in their batch, and they would be shipping me a replacement lower when the next batch was completed. I sent them an email back in early May to update my FFL information. At that time I got a response and they claimed they would be looking at hopefully having them done by the end of the month(May). I checked back in with them in mid June and at the end of July and neither one of those emails got a response. As a sidenote, could you message me the email you’ve been corresponding with them through? All of my correspondence has been with Alex W so maybe you have an email of someone that is a little more responsive, since my last two check-in emails have gone unanswered. My emails have been to [email protected]. Last reply was from 9/19 and seem to get same day responses but I haven't checked in since. One of the replies was from "Russ" but the others didn't state their name. I did see the receivers on centerfire but I'm hesitant to get another from Southern Tactical until this gets resolved. It appears the ones from centerfire have the newer subdued logo so I assume they're from the new batch. I'm going to send off another email and see if I can get a response. |
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Posted: 10/24/2023 3:06:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By --FLEET--: My emails have been to [email protected]. Last reply was from 9/19 and seem to get same day responses but I haven't checked in since. One of the replies was from "Russ" but the others didn't state their name. I did see the receivers on centerfire but I'm hesitant to get another from Southern Tactical until this gets resolved. It appears the ones from centerfire have the newer subdued logo so I assume they're from the new batch. I'm going to send off another email and see if I can get a response. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By --FLEET--: Originally Posted By agb104983: Supposedly, I’m on that list. I was one of the first to probably contact them because initially they claimed they looked into it and they were no spec issues but after 3 weeks emailed me back and promised a replacement. I assume other people contacted them about it and they realized I wasn’t just a crackpot, and there was a systemic issue. The timeline for me was I emailed them at the end of March and after a couple days of them looking into it they emailed me back and said there were no issues. Mid April I got an email from them, saying that they had had some issues in their batch, and they would be shipping me a replacement lower when the next batch was completed. I sent them an email back in early May to update my FFL information. At that time I got a response and they claimed they would be looking at hopefully having them done by the end of the month(May). I checked back in with them in mid June and at the end of July and neither one of those emails got a response. As a sidenote, could you message me the email you’ve been corresponding with them through? All of my correspondence has been with Alex W so maybe you have an email of someone that is a little more responsive, since my last two check-in emails have gone unanswered. My emails have been to [email protected]. Last reply was from 9/19 and seem to get same day responses but I haven't checked in since. One of the replies was from "Russ" but the others didn't state their name. I did see the receivers on centerfire but I'm hesitant to get another from Southern Tactical until this gets resolved. It appears the ones from centerfire have the newer subdued logo so I assume they're from the new batch. I'm going to send off another email and see if I can get a response. Thank you, I appreciate the heads up. I just forwarded my existing email chain them to that new address and added some additional information. Hopefully I can get a response. |
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Posted: 10/24/2023 8:32:53 PM EDT
[#34]
I got a response from Southern tactical after sending it to the sales email you gave me. They said to send me a copy of the FFL I use and they are going to ship one out when they receive the FFL. Hopefully you have received a response from your email as well.
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IA, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2023 10:30:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: --FLEET--]
[#35]
No problem. Yep, I got a pretty quick response and had my FFL send over their copy this morning so hopefully it ships soon.
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2023 4:33:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Could someone with bolts in multiple calibers weigh them and post the results? I'm curious whether they differ in only the breechface, or if they're weighted differently to account for the change in recoil.
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MT, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2023 6:03:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rudderbutter: Could someone with bolts in multiple calibers weigh them and post the results? I'm curious whether they differ in only the breechface, or if they're weighted differently to account for the change in recoil. I can do that this weekend. Please @ me if I don't remember - I am prone to forgetting these days. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 5:25:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ryo]
[#38]
32acp 9.4oz
22lr 5.4oz Both weighed with springs and rod on. The 2 rods and 2 spring weigh 1.4oz which you can subtract from both. Also the 32acp was made for F/A and has all the features while the 22lr has all that milled out so it can't be used in a F/A receiver. Not surprising that they are different weights based on caliber too |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:11:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rudderbutter: Could someone with bolts in multiple calibers weigh them and post the results? I'm curious whether they differ in only the breechface, or if they're weighted differently to account for the change in recoil. @rudderbutter I can't currently weigh the 9x17mm bolt as I've loaned that upper out but here are the rest: 22lr grams 156g/5.5oz 7.65x17mm 271g/9.6oz 9x18mm 308g/10.9oz All weights are with a complete bolt including the spring/guide rod. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:17:29 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: @rudderbutter I can't currently weigh the 9x17mm bolt as I've loaned that upper out but here are the rest: 22lr grams 156g/5.5oz 7.65x17mm 271g/9.6oz 9x18mm 308g/10.9oz All weights are with a complete bolt including the spring/guide rod. Much appreciated, thanks! So it does seem they weight the bolts to the cartridges, it's not just a change of the breechface. I knew the .22LR bolt was skeletonized quite a bit, but didn't know the 9x18 (and presumably the .380) had added mass. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:23:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rudderbutter: Much appreciated, thanks! So it does seem they weight the bolts to the cartridges, it's not just a change of the breechface. I knew the .22LR bolt was skeletonized quite a bit, but didn't know the 9x18 (and presumably the .380) had added mass. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rudderbutter: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: @rudderbutter I can't currently weigh the 9x17mm bolt as I've loaned that upper out but here are the rest: 22lr grams 156g/5.5oz 7.65x17mm 271g/9.6oz 9x18mm 308g/10.9oz All weights are with a complete bolt including the spring/guide rod. Much appreciated, thanks! So it does seem they weight the bolts to the cartridges, it's not just a change of the breechface. I knew the .22LR bolt was skeletonized quite a bit, but didn't know the 9x18 (and presumably the .380) had added mass. It seems to come down to the rate reducer's "holdback sear" or "bolt stop" [I don't know the correct name] catch area not being drilled out on the back of the bolt. See my pictures at the top of pg10 for reference. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:26:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Oh that's right.. They don't drill out the back of the 380 bolt. That makes it heavier. Also that makes it unusable in F/A receivers unless removal of some parts.
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MT, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:28:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryo: Oh that's right.. They don't drill out the back of the 380 bolt. That makes it heavier. Also that makes it unusable in F/A receivers unless removal of some parts. Correct. As provided the new manufacture bolts - that's everything except surplus 7.65x17mm bolts - can't be used for select fire. Certain features would have to be added and areas relieved/milled out. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:29:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: It seems to come down to the rate reducer's "holdback sear" or "bolt stop" [I don't know the correct name] catch area not being drilled out on the back of the bolt. See my pictures at the top of pg10 for reference. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By rudderbutter: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: @rudderbutter I can't currently weigh the 9x17mm bolt as I've loaned that upper out but here are the rest: 22lr grams 156g/5.5oz 7.65x17mm 271g/9.6oz 9x18mm 308g/10.9oz All weights are with a complete bolt including the spring/guide rod. Much appreciated, thanks! So it does seem they weight the bolts to the cartridges, it's not just a change of the breechface. I knew the .22LR bolt was skeletonized quite a bit, but didn't know the 9x18 (and presumably the .380) had added mass. It seems to come down to the rate reducer's "holdback sear" or "bolt stop" [I don't know the correct name] catch area not being drilled out on the back of the bolt. See my pictures at the top of pg10 for reference. Is the 32 ACP bolt that you got the weight for a Czechpoint commercial bolts or is it out of a parts kit? I don’t think the commercial Czechpoint 32ACP bolt has the drilled out area for the rate reducer so it’s possible that all the bolts from Czechpoint the same and the difference that were seeing is just the weight of a commercial bolt versus the parts kit full bolt that has the area drilled out for the rate reducer claw to catch |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:31:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Third_Rail]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: Is the 32 ACP bolt that you got the weight for a Czechpoint commercial bolts or is it out of a parts kit? I don’t think the commercial Czechpoint 32ACP bolt has the drilled out area for the rate reducer so it’s possible that all the bolts from Czechpoint the same and the difference that were seeing is just the weight of a commercial bolt versus the parts kit full bolt that has the area drilled out for the rate reducer claw to catch Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By rudderbutter: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: @rudderbutter I can't currently weigh the 9x17mm bolt as I've loaned that upper out but here are the rest: 22lr grams 156g/5.5oz 7.65x17mm 271g/9.6oz 9x18mm 308g/10.9oz All weights are with a complete bolt including the spring/guide rod. Much appreciated, thanks! So it does seem they weight the bolts to the cartridges, it's not just a change of the breechface. I knew the .22LR bolt was skeletonized quite a bit, but didn't know the 9x18 (and presumably the .380) had added mass. It seems to come down to the rate reducer's "holdback sear" or "bolt stop" [I don't know the correct name] catch area not being drilled out on the back of the bolt. See my pictures at the top of pg10 for reference. Is the 32 ACP bolt that you got the weight for a Czechpoint commercial bolts or is it out of a parts kit? I don’t think the commercial Czechpoint 32ACP bolt has the drilled out area for the rate reducer so it’s possible that all the bolts from Czechpoint the same and the difference that were seeing is just the weight of a commercial bolt versus the parts kit full bolt that has the area drilled out for the rate reducer claw to catch It's a surplus bolt. ETA: Unless it's floating around somewhere else in my shop I don't think I have a newly manufactured 7.65x17mm bolt to measure or weigh. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:32:27 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryo: Oh that's right.. They don't drill out the back of the 380 bolt. That makes it heavier. Also that makes it unusable in F/A receivers unless removal of some parts. Sort of. The rate reducer isn’t required for full auto usage, it just lowers the rate of fire a little bit. Technically the part that the commercial bolts don’t have that you would need to add/modify is the bump on the underside of the bolt on the right hand side that would engage the sear trip on a full auto gun. But you could easily add a little piece of metal to that underside area and then grind it to the correct height/contour to time the trip correctly. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:34:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: It's a surplus bolt. ETA: Unless it's floating around somewhere else in my shop I don't think I have a newly manufactured 7.65x17mm bolt to measure or weight. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By agb104983: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By rudderbutter: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: @rudderbutter I can't currently weigh the 9x17mm bolt as I've loaned that upper out but here are the rest: 22lr grams 156g/5.5oz 7.65x17mm 271g/9.6oz 9x18mm 308g/10.9oz All weights are with a complete bolt including the spring/guide rod. Much appreciated, thanks! So it does seem they weight the bolts to the cartridges, it's not just a change of the breechface. I knew the .22LR bolt was skeletonized quite a bit, but didn't know the 9x18 (and presumably the .380) had added mass. It seems to come down to the rate reducer's "holdback sear" or "bolt stop" [I don't know the correct name] catch area not being drilled out on the back of the bolt. See my pictures at the top of pg10 for reference. Is the 32 ACP bolt that you got the weight for a Czechpoint commercial bolts or is it out of a parts kit? I don’t think the commercial Czechpoint 32ACP bolt has the drilled out area for the rate reducer so it’s possible that all the bolts from Czechpoint the same and the difference that were seeing is just the weight of a commercial bolt versus the parts kit full bolt that has the area drilled out for the rate reducer claw to catch It's a surplus bolt. ETA: Unless it's floating around somewhere else in my shop I don't think I have a newly manufactured 7.65x17mm bolt to measure or weight. I have a Czechpoint 7.65x17 bolt I can get a weight for either tonight or sometime tomorrow. I’ll post it on here. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:35:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Third_Rail]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: I have a Czechpoint 7.65x17 bolt I can get a weight for either tonight or sometime tomorrow. I’ll post it on here. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By agb104983: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By rudderbutter: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: @rudderbutter I can't currently weigh the 9x17mm bolt as I've loaned that upper out but here are the rest: 22lr grams 156g/5.5oz 7.65x17mm 271g/9.6oz 9x18mm 308g/10.9oz All weights are with a complete bolt including the spring/guide rod. Much appreciated, thanks! So it does seem they weight the bolts to the cartridges, it's not just a change of the breechface. I knew the .22LR bolt was skeletonized quite a bit, but didn't know the 9x18 (and presumably the .380) had added mass. It seems to come down to the rate reducer's "holdback sear" or "bolt stop" [I don't know the correct name] catch area not being drilled out on the back of the bolt. See my pictures at the top of pg10 for reference. Is the 32 ACP bolt that you got the weight for a Czechpoint commercial bolts or is it out of a parts kit? I don’t think the commercial Czechpoint 32ACP bolt has the drilled out area for the rate reducer so it’s possible that all the bolts from Czechpoint the same and the difference that were seeing is just the weight of a commercial bolt versus the parts kit full bolt that has the area drilled out for the rate reducer claw to catch It's a surplus bolt. ETA: Unless it's floating around somewhere else in my shop I don't think I have a newly manufactured 7.65x17mm bolt to measure or weight. I have a Czechpoint 7.65x17 bolt I can get a weight for either tonight or sometime tomorrow. I’ll post it on here. I'm curious to know if you're correct on it not being milled out for the rate reducer to function. I don't see why they would make them that way - but I also thought they were using surplus bolts where possible. ETA: A random thought. Given the ~34.75cm3 of volume in the surplus 7.65x17mm bolt [~39.75cm3 for the 9x18mm] I could comfortably get over the 625g/22oz baseline for a blowback 9x19mm bolt using tungsten. What's that fellow's name that makes the tungsten alloy Uzi/Mac11 bolts? Could be a very fun project to modify a receiver to accept an MP5 mag or similar and actually have a 9x19mm Vz61 that runs reliably. Expensive. But fun. 
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:48:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rudderbutter]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: I'm curious to know if you're correct on it not being milled out for the rate reducer to function. I don't see why they would make them that way - but I also thought they were using surplus bolts where possible. ETA: A random thought. Given the ~34.75cm3 of volume in the surplus 7.65x17mm bolt [~39.75cm3 for the 9x18mm] I could comfortably get over the 625g/22oz baseline for a blowback 9x19mm bolt using tungsten. What's that fellow's name that makes the tungsten alloy Uzi/Mac11 bolts? Could be a very fun project to modify a receiver to accept an MP5 mag or similar and actually have a 9x19mm Vz61 that runs reliably. Expensive. But fun. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By agb104983: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By agb104983: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By rudderbutter: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: @rudderbutter I can't currently weigh the 9x17mm bolt as I've loaned that upper out but here are the rest: 22lr grams 156g/5.5oz 7.65x17mm 271g/9.6oz 9x18mm 308g/10.9oz All weights are with a complete bolt including the spring/guide rod. Much appreciated, thanks! So it does seem they weight the bolts to the cartridges, it's not just a change of the breechface. I knew the .22LR bolt was skeletonized quite a bit, but didn't know the 9x18 (and presumably the .380) had added mass. It seems to come down to the rate reducer's "holdback sear" or "bolt stop" [I don't know the correct name] catch area not being drilled out on the back of the bolt. See my pictures at the top of pg10 for reference. Is the 32 ACP bolt that you got the weight for a Czechpoint commercial bolts or is it out of a parts kit? I don’t think the commercial Czechpoint 32ACP bolt has the drilled out area for the rate reducer so it’s possible that all the bolts from Czechpoint the same and the difference that were seeing is just the weight of a commercial bolt versus the parts kit full bolt that has the area drilled out for the rate reducer claw to catch It's a surplus bolt. ETA: Unless it's floating around somewhere else in my shop I don't think I have a newly manufactured 7.65x17mm bolt to measure or weight. I have a Czechpoint 7.65x17 bolt I can get a weight for either tonight or sometime tomorrow. I’ll post it on here. I'm curious to know if you're correct on it not being milled out for the rate reducer to function. I don't see why they would make them that way - but I also thought they were using surplus bolts where possible. ETA: A random thought. Given the ~34.75cm3 of volume in the surplus 7.65x17mm bolt [~39.75cm3 for the 9x18mm] I could comfortably get over the 625g/22oz baseline for a blowback 9x19mm bolt using tungsten. What's that fellow's name that makes the tungsten alloy Uzi/Mac11 bolts? Could be a very fun project to modify a receiver to accept an MP5 mag or similar and actually have a 9x19mm Vz61 that runs reliably. Expensive. But fun. I would be all over that like a fat kid on cake. I may attempt it at some point down the line, I've got a pile of MP5 mags/parts lying around… ETA: From eyeballing it, material would need to be added around the magwell to accommodate an MP5 mag; they're almost exactly the same width as the receiver in that area. Something like chopping out the original walls and welding in an MP5 magwell might work. there appears to be plenty of room in front to accommodate the takedown pin in such a configuration. Removing the original magazine release assembly might also clear enough room to put in the HK lever… |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 5:12:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rudderbutter: I would be all over that like a fat kid on cake. I may attempt it at some point down the line, I've got a pile of MP5 mags/parts lying around… ETA: From eyeballing it, material would need to be added around the magwell to accommodate an MP5 mag; they're almost exactly the same width as the receiver in that area. Something like chopping out the original walls and welding in an MP5 magwell might work. there appears to be plenty of room in front to accommodate the takedown pin in such a configuration. Removing the original magazine release assembly might also clear enough room to put in the HK lever… If not an MP5 mag then something more suitable. I have access to all sorts of weird and somewhat uncommon magazines - perhaps a STA Mle 1924 mag would work better since it's double column but single feed and very slim for what it is. The tungsten bolt guy is "CoffeeFreak" on UziTalk by the way. I looked through my old emails. I'll likely get a drawing together this winter and contact him to see. |
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