I finally got an M-1 Garand. What do the markings mean? (Lots of pics)

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I finally got an M-1 Garand. What do the markings mean? (Lots of pics)

Posted: 9/9/2007 3:52:19 PM EDT

I picked this up today at a gun show. It is in very fine condition and the wood is beautiful.

As far as I know, it is a Springfield, SN:1918XX, made in February, 1941. It was re-arsenaled in 1951 where a new SA barrel was installed. The throat erosion is graded at a 2.

I field stripped it tonight, and took some pictures. I photographed every number and marking I could find. I didn't remove the upper handguard, though since I had trouble getting a good hold on the retaining band, and I had concerns about cracking the wood, hence no barrel photographs.

I'd appreciate any info that you can give me. I'm looking this stuff up myself as well, but I don't know much about Garands, so it's slow going right now. I was just curious if I got a desirable rifle, or a frankengun. It doesn't matter a whole lot to me, as long as it shoots straight. I would just like to know as much about it as possible.

Thanks!

These next two are of the number stamped on the safety. It appears to say "SA 11".

Posted: 9/9/2007 3:57:05 PM EDT

[#1]

I HATE YOU! B-U-T-ful rifle my man.

Who cares about the numbers if it runs like one that has all the numbers. Screw the numbers!

Oh, wait. All your numbers are horrible. I will buy this monstrocity from you and ease your burden. Hate it when people get screwed at gun shows!

Posted: 9/9/2007 4:35:42 PM EDT

[#2]

You definitely got yourself a nice rifle. There is no need to remove the rear handguard clip so I suggest you leave it on unless you have a proper tool. If you need to remove the handguard you first remove the lower band (remove pin) and then slide the handguard off without removing the clip from the handguard.
Most of the parts are not from the same time period as your rifle. There are a few notable parts that are for your rifle like the grooved rear hanguard clip (an $80 - $100 part) and the clip latch (which appears to have a round front in your pictures).
You also have a nice 1945 era op rod that does not have a relief cut which brings a premium.

Posted: 9/9/2007 4:47:20 PM EDT

[#3]

The #'s: appox date ranges,

1st pic: Drawing and heat lot #'s
2nd pic: NHC= ? I will have to look that one up.
3rd pic: -9 op rod correct for a 2-3+ million s/n
4th pic: 13 follower correct for a 3.6+ million s/n
5th pic: -19 bolt for a 3+million s/n & A-9 is the heat lot
6th pic: range markings for the rear sight, if there is an "M" its meters and correct for an M14. Otherwise its for a Garand.
7th pic: S/N
8th pic:............
9th pic: -14 for a 3.3+ million s/n
10th pic: -9 for a 3.8+ million s/n
11th pic: SA 11 for a 2+ million s/n

And like the others stated, it is a nice rifle. Good find. Now we need a range report.

Enjoy,

Posted: 9/9/2007 5:33:17 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
The #'s: appox date ranges,

1st pic: Drawing and heat lot #'s
2nd pic: NHC= ? I will have to look that one up.
3rd pic: -9 op rod correct for a 2-3+ million s/n
4th pic: 13 follower correct for a 3.6+ million s/n
5th pic: -19 bolt for a 3+million s/n & A-9 is the heat lot
6th pic: range markings for the rear sight, if there is an "M" its meters and correct for an M14. Otherwise its for a Garand.
7th pic: S/N
8th pic:............
9th pic: -14 for a 3.3+ million s/n
10th pic: -9 for a 3.8+ million s/n
11th pic: SA 11 for a 2+ million s/n

And like the others stated, it is a nice rifle. Good find. Now we need a range report.

Enjoy,

Nice job, I was too lazy to go through all the numbers. Here's some additions:
1)Looks like a long fork follower rod in there, 2.5mil up
2)I believe NHC stands for New Haven Clock and is used post war
8)Wide base gas cylinder 1.6mil and up

Posted: 9/9/2007 6:03:51 PM EDT

[#5]

That is a very nice Garand. 6-digit serial number and a lead dipped heel. Stick a round of M2 ball ammo in the muzzle and see how much of the bullet shows. 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch means not too much wear on the barrel. Let us know how it shoots.

Posted: 9/9/2007 6:18:38 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
That is a very nice Garand. 6-digit serial number and a lead dipped heel. Stick a round of M2 ball ammo in the muzzle and see how much of the bullet shows. 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch means not too much wear on the barrel. Let us know how it shoots.

The Greek M2 ball that I stuck in the muzzle came out right at 1/8". How does that stack up? I assume it's better than 1/4"?

A range report, group size photos, and video will be posted tomorrow night. Thanks for all the help!!!

Posted: 9/9/2007 6:24:41 PM EDT

[#7]

Might want to change out that op rod if this rifle is a shooter.There's a reason a relief cut was added.Fulton Armory Garand op rod FAQ has the info for you.

Posted: 9/9/2007 6:42:32 PM EDT

[#8]

I wouldnt' worry too much about shooting it with an uncut op rod. The reason they did the cut was because of too much stress from grenade launching. I would find another one just for the fact that an un cut op rod is very valuable to collectors. Sell yours and buy yourself an uncut rod and some ammo. Nice rifle, BTW. It doesn't look like it was shot much after rebuilt. Good luck.

Posted: 9/9/2007 6:51:51 PM EDT

[#9]

Ok, one more question:

I'm loading my clips, and I notice that you can load them so that the high round (the first one to load) is on the left OR the right (next to the indexing indentation).

Does that matter? Is there a right and wrong way to load the ammo into the clips?

Posted: 9/9/2007 7:34:03 PM EDT

[#10]

That is one fine looking Garand!

The only flaw I see, and it is a minor one, is a small crack in your trigger guard. Good excuse to swap it out with a milled trigger guard with the winter trigger hole.

Shoot it till the barrel melts, change the barrel then shoot it some more!

Posted: 9/9/2007 7:34:36 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Ok, one more question:

I'm loading my clips, and I notice that you can load them so that the high round (the first one to load) is on the left OR the right (next to the indexing indentation).

Does that matter? Is there a right and wrong way to load the ammo into the clips?

Good to go either way.

Posted: 9/10/2007 7:11:58 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I wouldnt' worry too much about shooting it with an uncut op rod. The reason they did the cut was because of too much stress from grenade launching. I would find another one just for the fact that an un cut op rod is very valuable to collectors. Sell yours and buy yourself an un cut rod and some ammo. Nice rifle, BTW. It doesn't look like it was shot much after rebuilt. Good luck.

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. When a grenade was launched, the poppet valve in the lock screw is forced open, therefore there is no pressure at all on the op-rod since it doesn't cycle.

Uncut op-rods failed in normal service with ball ammo.

BFLD- Replace your un-cut rod with a relief-cut rod ASAP.

Quoted:
Ok, one more question:

I'm loading my clips, and I notice that you can load them so that the high round (the first one to load) is on the left OR the right (next to the indexing indentation).

Does that matter? Is there a right and wrong way to load the ammo into the clips?

Functionally it doesn't matter. If the top round is on the rightside, right handers may find it easier to load since your thumb bears directly on the top round.

Posted: 9/10/2007 3:57:04 PM EDT

[#13]

beltfed: Great pictures! I did not think your rifle could be a reweld (due to picture clarity and no visible flaws) but I had to look it up anyway. Heat lot and serial number range coincide, so you are good to go. Do you have CMP provenance? If not, you might write them in the hope the rifle has gone throught their pipeline in the recent past. HTH

Posted: 9/10/2007 5:47:26 PM EDT

[#14]

Here is a good article on cut/uncut op rods. I do agree that you should replace it before you shoot it. You can probably trade someone for a cut op rod and walk away with some cash. Someone looking to restore a 1945 rifle will be able to use it. If you are looking for a "correct" op rod for your rifle I believe you need a 3 SA (or possibly a 2 SA, I'll look it up for you).

Posted: 9/10/2007 6:45:16 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
beltfed: Great pictures! I did not think your rifle could be a reweld (due to picture clarity and no visible flaws) but I had to look it up anyway. Heat lot and serial number range coincide, so you are good to go. Do you have CMP provenance? If not, you might write them in the hope the rifle has gone throught their pipeline in the recent past. HTH

What would the CMP provenance do for me?

Posted: 9/10/2007 7:22:59 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
beltfed: Great pictures! I did not think your rifle could be a reweld (due to picture clarity and no visible flaws) but I had to look it up anyway. Heat lot and serial number range coincide, so you are good to go. Do you have CMP provenance? If not, you might write them in the hope the rifle has gone throught their pipeline in the recent past. HTH

What would the CMP provenance do for me?

Tell you what units the gun served in and when it served.

Posted: 9/10/2007 7:47:59 PM EDT

[#17]

very nice early rear handguard clip. after about SN 500,000 they stopped making them with the groove across the top like that and instead stamped them.

Don't sweat the oprod thing. Sell it for a decent chunk of cash, but it's plenty safe to fire if you just want to go shooting.

And actually the follower is a Winchester one. They were marked with the 13. Some other areas of the rifle I'd like to take a look at to see what you've got:

Top of the gas cylinder. Does it have a flat spot on the rear ring, or is it round all around?

Right side of the front sight. Punchmarked?

Gas cylinder lock screw: markings?

nice rifle! Gorgeous wood!

Posted: 9/10/2007 8:30:38 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
very nice early rear handguard clip. after about SN 500,000 they stopped making them with the groove across the top like that and instead stamped them.

Don't sweat the oprod thing. Sell it for a decent chunk of cash, but it's plenty safe to fire if you just want to go shooting.

And actually the follower is a Winchester one. They were marked with the 13. Some other areas of the rifle I'd like to take a look at to see what you've got:

Top of the gas cylinder. Does it have a flat spot on the rear ring, or is it round all around?

Flat spot

Right side of the front sight. Punchmarked?

I don't see any punch markings, just the lollipop-shaped hole above the dovetail. What is it I am looking for? The left side of the sight assy has a small, single dot punched just forward of the dovetail.

Gas cylinder lock screw: markings?

Good catch, I didn't even see this one. It is a capital "P" and one small stamped triangle.

nice rifle! Gorgeous wood!

ETA: I just found the barrel markings: There is an "N" stamped just below the upper handguard clip. Also, further down it is marked: "S-A-4-51" and then "P" on the shoulder as the barrel profile narrows.

Posted: 9/10/2007 8:59:19 PM EDT

[#19]

check out www.battlerifle.com for a good breakdown of who made what part and when it would be correct.

Posted: 9/11/2007 4:31:30 AM EDT

[#20]

+ 1 on picking up a milled trigger guard. beautiful rifle man. may we ask what you paid?

Posted: 9/11/2007 5:04:33 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
+ 1 on picking up a milled trigger guard. beautiful rifle man. may we ask what you paid?

$871 after taxes. I thought it was a good price for the condition it was in. I didn't know anything about the rarer components at the time.

I knew that the prices were only going to go up, so I had better get a good one while I had the chance.

Posted: 9/11/2007 8:11:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
+ 1 on picking up a milled trigger guard. beautiful rifle man. may we ask what you paid?

why? unless he's trying to make it correct, the stamped trigger guard is superior to the milled IMO. It locks up tighter and doesn't wear out nearly as easily as the milled.

Posted: 9/11/2007 9:01:56 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Ok, one more question:

I'm loading my clips, and I notice that you can load them so that the high round (the first one to load) is on the left OR the right (next to the indexing indentation).

Does that matter? Is there a right and wrong way to load the ammo into the clips?

Some rifles with marginal tolerance issues will feed more consistantly with the top round on the right. Plus it's easier to load that way. Otherwise, it doesn't matter.

I like the stemped trigger guards better as well. I have yet to see a milled one where the lugs weren't worn flat. You usually get a better trigger group lockup (more accurate rifle) with a stamped one.

Posted: 9/11/2007 9:15:55 AM EDT

[#24]

Ok, I'm preparing my range report.

One thing I noticed was that the bolt would not chamber the first round after I inserted the clip. It didn't snap shut, but only pushed the first round a fraction of an inch. I had to shove it forward or pull it back and let it go to get it to chamber.

Even then, it took a few tries to get the bolt all the way into battery.

How can I fix this? A new spring?

It functioned perfectly, though. No jams or stoppages.

Posted: 9/11/2007 10:39:20 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Ok, I'm preparing my range report.

One thing I noticed was that the bolt would not chamber the first round after I inserted the clip. It didn't snap shut, but only pushed the first round a fraction of an inch. I had to shove it forward or pull it back and let it go to get it to chamber.

Even then, it took a few tries to get the bolt all the way into battery.

How can I fix this? A new spring?

It functioned perfectly, though. No jams or stoppages.

The vast majority of M1's won't feed the first round without a bump on the oprod. To fix it, you'll probably need to buy several of each of the receiver parts (bullet guide, oprod latch, follower arm, etc) till you find a combination that works. Older, more worn clips will feed the first round a little better.

Ty

Posted: 9/11/2007 11:19:30 AM EDT

[#26]

Nice find Beltfedleadhead! Congrats!

What 30caliber said. Also are you using grease or oil as a lube? M1s love grease. I use good old white lubriplate.

Add a dab to the top rear of the bolt, the bolt lugs and their raceways. Add a dab on the top of the hammer in the concave part. Plus grease, just a dab, in the raceways for the magazine follower, in the forks where they attach to follower, on top of the op rod where it rubs against the bottom of the barrel, and all the little places where metal contacts metal.

I would also recommend Scott Duff's books. Get "The M1 Garand Owner's Guide". It's something around 150 pages of very complete owner's manual. It'll tell all you need to know about the care and usage of a Garand. His book "M1 Garand: WWll" is a great telling of the development, manufacturing and issuance of the Garand in the pre-war and war time era. The book "M1 Garand: PostWar" tells how they were rebuilt after the war and package away. Plus what went on with the H&R and IHC rifles. These two books are a bit more expensive but once you start reading them you forget all about how much you spent on them. But start out with the owner's manual. They're available at ScottDuff.com and Fulton Armory.

Posted: 9/11/2007 2:12:58 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

And actually the follower is a Winchester one. They were marked with the 13. Some other areas of the rifle I'd like to take a look at to see what you've got:

While both Winchester and SA used followers with a 13, the WRA 13 followers are sans serif so this one is an SA.

Posted: 9/11/2007 3:37:41 PM EDT

[#28]

For more info:

The M1 board at Jouster.com is the best source for Garand info imho.

Uncut OpRod: Worth money if you want to sell it..otherwise it should shoot just fine.

Bolt Feed Lags on 1st Round: It's made to be "hard released" into battery. Don't baby it....let that oprod go...don't "gently" release it. Also..it needs to be generously lubed with GREASE...especially the Op Rod channel in the receiver. Changing out the op rod spring will help too.

Your trigger group is supposed to be "recessed or inletted" into the stock to fully seat. Yours' looks like it may be seated on top of the wood rather than buried deeper inside. Just a quick check would determine if it's inleted correctly or may need some stock work..but BE CAREFULL and find someone who knows how a Garand stock needs to be fitted.

Read up on "Garand thumb"..they do bite!

Have you experienced the "Ping" yet?

With the right ammo and right tuning...they can shoot very accurately.

Posted: 9/23/2007 3:57:34 PM EDT

[#29]

Offhand, you have a wartime production rifle in good condition. Enjoy it !

Posted: 9/23/2007 4:08:53 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
The vast majority of M1's won't feed the first round without a bump on the oprod. To fix it, you'll probably need to buy several of each of the receiver parts (bullet guide, oprod latch, follower arm, etc) till you find a combination that works. Older, more worn clips will feed the first round a little better.

Ty

Ditto on what 30Caliber said. Even one of the Garand FM manuals mention possibly having to tap the oprod on the first round. Do not waste your time or money trying to perfect getting the first round closure on clip insertion.

BTW, very nice rifle.

Hootbro

Posted: 9/23/2007 4:34:32 PM EDT

[#31]

GREAT lookin' rifle, son ! ! ! !

Lots and lots of good info here too.

Would like to add one more comment: Gets a BUNCH of ammo -- you're gonna need it. Prices are on the rise -- like all other ammo -- so get in now while you still can.

Quick little story: about two years ago I got a phone call at work from a guy that I worked with about 20 years ago. Said he had "an old M-1 for sale". If was Friday night and he needed beer money. Offered it to me for $400. Barrel looked crappy ! ! Ended up getting the "old M-1 with a crappy barrel" for only $300 ! ! (amazing the effect that $50 bills have on a guy that's half-drunk and wants beer money ! !) Springfield model in the 2,100,000 range.

Took her home and soaked the barrel in Kroil for a few days. Couple of passed with a bronze brush and patches and the bore shines like a new dime ! !

Took her to the range a few days later with a can of 300 rounds of Lake City 150 ball ammo. Believe it or not I was thru the can of ammo before I realized it was all gone ! ! And ZERO problems too ! ! !

Came home with a can of empty brass and a really BIG smile ! !

Like I said . . . gonna need a lot of ammo . . . . . .

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I finally got an M-1 Garand. What do the markings mean? (Lots of pics)

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