Destructive Devices (grenades, mines, claymores,RPG's)

Wait...Wait...You can get these things?  How does one go about doing that?  Some sort of BATFE permit/Form4?  

Thanks for educating me

-Rob

You have to keep in mind that DD's are a federal classification.  They include things such as, grenades, bombs, incindiaries, explosives, anti-personnel explosives, etc...  They also include guns over .50cal that do not have a sporting-use (ie, .600 Nitro Express Elephant Stomper).  [I'm heavily paraphrasing here folks]

The State of WA sees it differently.  The state does not draw a distinction between a .49cal rifle and a .51cal rifle.  To the State, a rifle is a rifle.  On the other hand, most explosives are verboten with proper permits/licensing.

What does this mean?  You can get a federal DD such as a 40mm Grenade Launcher (M203) or 60mm Mortar or 12Ga StreetSweeper and in the State of Washington you're good to go.  But while federally you could ask for a DD Grenade, the State of WA would preclude it from happening unless you provided an exemption (ie, LE, Military, Demolitions, etc...)

In other words, DD's in the State of WA are limited to non-Explosives.

Quoted: What does this mean?  You can get a federal DD such as a 40mm Grenade Launcher (M203) or 60mm Mortar or 12Ga StreetSweeper and in the State of Washington you're good to go.  But while federally you could ask for a DD Grenade, the State of WA would preclude it from happening unless you provided an exemption (ie, LE, Military, Demolitions, etc...) In other words, DD's in the State of WA are limited to non-Explosives.

That is correct.  I've got an LMT M203 on order (DD) and it is the same process as a suppressor or AOW.  WA state allows for "large bore" DDs but not explosive DDs (grenades, bombs, flash bangs) unless you also have the specific licenses for those items (really expensive, time consuming and a total PITA.)

NOW, here is something to consider.  A Street Sweeper is classified as a Destructive Device.  As such, it can't have any other federal classification.  In other words, it can't be classified as a Short Barrel Shotgun at the same time.  DD trumps SBS.  What does that mean?  If you have a Street Sweeper, you can chop the barrel as short as you want!  I don't have a Saiga shotgun, but I may get one in the hopes that the Feds classify it as a DD.  As soon as that happens (if it does,) BAM!  I'm chopping the barrel down!  Then you've got your very own short shotgun, in a state that doesn't allow SBS!  But since it would be a large bore DD, well, you get the idea.

I'll have the equivalent of a short barrel shotgun as soon as my M203 comes in.  I'll get a 12 gauge adapter for it, so I can fire shotgun ammo from it.  Sure, it is only a single shot, but I don't care.

So let me get this right, in this state AOW's suchs as a shorty/stubby shotgun are not allowed if they are of a standard shell size like 12ga?

Just making sure I understood you.

So something like:



-Rob

Quoted: So let me get this right, in this state AOW's suchs as a shorty/stubby shotgun are not allowed if they are of a standard shell size like 12ga? Just making sure I understood you. -Rob

Nope - I think you got it backwards.  I have that exact AOW.  As long as the shotshell-gun never had a buttstock, it's not a Short Barreled Shotgun Federally or State.

Quoted: NOW, here is something to consider.  A Street Sweeper is classified as a Destructive Device.  As such, it can't have any other federal classification.  In other words, it can't be classified as a Short Barrel Shotgun at the same time.  DD trumps SBS.  What does that mean?  If you have a Street Sweeper, you can chop the barrel as short as you want!  I don't have a Saiga shotgun, but I may get one in the hopes that the Feds classify it as a DD.  As soon as that happens (if it does,) BAM!  I'm chopping the barrel down!  Then you've got your very own short shotgun, in a state that doesn't allow SBS!  But since it would be a large bore DD, well, you get the idea. I'll have the equivalent of a short barrel shotgun as soon as my M203 comes in.  I'll get a 12 gauge adapter for it, so I can fire shotgun ammo from it.  Sure, it is only a single shot, but I don't care.

Umm...  I think there's something amiss with this one.
Yes, Federally the DD "outranks" the SBS/SBR and you can swap the barrel to any length (Have you seen the 2" models?  Nasty!)

However, State-wise, I think you'll have to be warned.  If your Street-sweeper came from the factory with a buttstock - the State sees it as a Shotgun and shortening it could be bad.

If, however, you got one of the models that came without a buttstock and was set-up a lot like the Cruisers or Mavericks did from the factory (pistol-grip 12Ga pumps), I believe you could shorten the barrel as the State sees it as a pistol (which is why you have to be 21 to buy a Cruiser/Maverick in this state and do a blue-form).

As for the smooth-bore M203/12Ga idea I think one should be concerned about OAL and barrel length again.  Same for Saiga's (at least with those you can easily replace the stamped-metal receiver with a virgin and make a pistol/AOW).

Then again, one can argue my general thesis on St of WA SBS/SBR below and say your ideas fit fine considering the last paragraph.

RCW 9.41.010(4)

(4) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length AND any weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Look what happens when you substitute an OR for the AND.

(4) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length OR any weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

One could argue, if sufficiently inclined, that you could obtain a rifle that had barrels over 16" but was only 17" long (short-action HAHA) - or a reworked rifle greater than 26" overall but has 2" barrels (long length of pull). I suspect one could even argue that a 25" rifle with 2" barrels is okay if it was never a rifle prior to construction (pistol receiver).

Anyone feeling like a Guinea Pig?

Quoted: Then again, one can argue my general thesis on St of WA SBS/SBR below and say your ideas fit fine considering the last paragraph. Anyone feeling like a Guinea Pig?

SKSGuy where are you. . . . He may volunteer. . ..

Quoted: I just submitted the application for Nonprofit Crop.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Then again, one can argue my general thesis on St of WA SBS/SBR below and say your ideas fit fine considering the last paragraph. Anyone feeling like a Guinea Pig? SKSGuy where are you. . . . He may volunteer. . .. smiley.onegreatguy.net/analprobe.gif

Well I need a little more background first.  Then if I make the determination (to do it) I'll volunteer.  I want more information though.

-Rob