Bustoff-
Many of us will owe you a round or two sometime in the future for your help in this area, and maybe some trigger time
Quoted: First off they are apples and oranges.
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Right - well, that's part of the issue because they've turn through laws, a firearm, into multiple categories based on cosmetic issues in many circumstances. Thus, the convoluted issues in wrapping ones brain around all the written statutes, laws, and opinions
A machine gun is a machine gun period with a specific definition in both state and federal laws, it cannot become a SBR because its a MG. It requires a $200 dollar transfer fee or tax stamp paid at the time of transfer of ownership.
SBR is defined as well with a specific definition, made from a rifle blah blah blah. It is federally regulated and requires a $200 dollar transfer fee or tax stamp paid at the time of transfer of ownership. SBR's are illegal in Michigan unless C&R.
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Right...
Neither MG's or SBR's can switch between each other making one into the other.
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Right, I hope I wasn't implying that. There’s something there I cannot remember...
An MG with whatever length it is - is still a MG nothing else, although the MSP might like to have you register your machine pistol as a pistol and I'm not so sure thats totally legal on their part but thats an issue for another day.
You said - -BUT-
Since this is MI and we have state laws on SBR we'd technically have to go the route the AK folder, and P90 owners go registering their rifles as pistols.
I believe that is a correct statement and this is due to another faulty Frank Kelly opinion that needs to be dealt with in the future.
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O.K., I'm glad I've learned at least that
You said -
If I'm following this correctly, and not missing anything, then how would one registrar a pre'86 AR lower as a pistol when it's on record already as a rifle? Also, what about pre'86 MP5 whatever’s, how would they fall in this.
Because your attempting to comply with both state and federal laws and you must be in compliance. The federal laws regulated your gun as a rifle. Registering your rifle as a pistol in Michigan cannot change its federal status. Under federal law it is what it is. Registering your rifle as a pistol is complying with state law AG Frank Kellys opinion requiring a registration with your LEO.
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Very good, this is one less problem to overcome for some of the items knowing that the "status" of one required compliance will not conflict with the other in order to gain full compliance under both state and federal regulations.
And I'm not sure what your talking about pre-86. Pre 1986 MG's are one thing. Semi auto's are not equivalent in the same manner so forget about pre86 when talking semi auto.
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I'm talking pre existent MG's to '86 therefore, legal to acquire without a FFL/SOT and department request letter – i.e. then a post ’86 MG or dealer sample. Thus, MG's open for private and corporate ownership now in MI.
I may be missing something in regards to the 'semi-auto' thing that you reference.
You said,
I'm more inclined to believe that a registered MG supersedes the SBR issue in MI because it's a MG. (Then again I'm just getting back into this info now that it's an available option to MI citizens)
Yes although I would not call it superseding. A MG is a MG a SBR is a SBR one cannot be the other unless Frank Kelly gets reincarnated into the AG's office again and he's not dead yet.
And should you ever find yourself in a position with an LEO who does not know the law and or up on charges of possession of a registered or unregistered SBR or MG the burden of proof to prove you are incompliance with the law will be upon yourself to prove that fact. A copy of your form 4 will suffice as your license to possess a C&R SBR or MG in Michigan, keep a copy with the gun at all times and store your original in a safe place.
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Right, so I'm understanding the short answer is that as a MG it would
NOT be possible to have a shorter OAL barrel than 16" on an
AR w/o a C&R, and the additional SBR tax tamp in MI?
Basically, I'm trying to understand an AR related issue to barrel length and what will be legal, and by what means in MI now that we have the new AG opinion.
Also, I know the SP89 was categorized as a pistols so I'm good there; however, the pre'86 MP5's listed (There is such a thing right, or are these converted semi-auto HK94's & SP89's to full MG's & SBR's?) were categorized as rifles under the law (even though there subguns) so assuming pre'86 MP5 MG's exist how will they be categorized under compliance with MI law. Is the MP5 A2/A3/A4 SD, et al whatever going to be a possible option for ownership now as well in MI?
I'm looking to understand the HK issue in terms of MI ownership.
Our LLC will be most interested in AR and HK acquirements so before I get barraged with the question I want to understand what options of these firearms will be open for purchase now in MI