User Panel
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:08:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben]
The following are APCs current approved basic small arms qualifications.* Target for all qualifications is the B-27 target.
Rifle Stage # Rnds Time Distance Description 1 15 75 sec 100y Start standing. On whistle immediately go prone and engage target with 15 rounds from the prone unsupported. Ensure you count your rounds. 2 10 65 sec 100y Start standing. On whistle take a kneeling position and fire 5 rounds. Drop to prone, combat reload, and fire 5 more rounds. 3 10 35 sec 50y Start standing. On whistle drop to kneeling and fire 10 rounds. 4 10 30 sec 25y On whistle fire 5 rounds standing, drop to kneeling, combat reload and fire 5 rounds. 5 10 20 sec 25y Start in the low ready. On whistle engage target with 10 rounds. 6 5 8 sec 15y Start in low ready. On whistle engage target with 5 rounds. Make your weapon condition 4. The rifle qualification requires three magazines loaded with 20 rounds each, or six magazines loaded with 10 rounds each. Minimum passing score is 240 out of 300. Hits in the eight ring or above are scored as a 5, on the silhouette outside the eight ring is a 4. Shotgun Stage Distance # Rnds Time Description 1 7y 5 15 sec Standing, shotgun in condition 3 with 4 rounds(loaded tube/magazine on empty chamber). On whistle engage with 4 rounds, combat reload, re-engage. 2 15y 5 25 sec Standing, shotgun in condition 3 with 4 rounds(loaded tube/magazine on empty chamber). On whistle engage with 4 rounds, combat reload, re-engage. Shotgun must be a 12ga with 2 3/4" shells. If using #4 buck, 150 of 270 on the silhouette is passing. For 9 pellet 00 buck 72/90 is passing. Pistol Stage Distance # Rnds Time Description 1 25y 2 6 sec Standing from the holster on whistle. 2 15y 6 10 sec Standing from holster, on whistle. 3 7y 12 14 sec Standing from holster, on whistle engage w/6 rounds, combat reload, 6 more rounds. 4 3y 7 4 sec Standing from holster, on whistle draw and engage w/7 rounds. 5 3y 6 2 sec Standing from holster, on whistle draw and fire two rounds. Repeat for a total of 3x. 6 3y 7 4 sec Standing from holster, on whistle draw and fire 7 rounds one handed. Non-firing hand to be behind back, against chest, or in pocket. Hits in the eight ring or above are scored as a 5, on the sillouhette outside the eight ring is a 4. Minimum passing score is 160/200. |
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Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
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@Ben
Questions- 1) Will bipods be allowed? 2) Will individual BB units be permitted to administer this qual assuming standard APC/BB witnessing is employed? 2) Can rifle/pistol/shotgun stages be shot at different times/locations? 3) Will this qual be credited toward any ratings? Thanks |
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Originally Posted By Redbirdxx: @Ben Questions- 1) Will bipods be allowed? 2) Will individual BB units be permitted to administer this qual assuming standard APC/BB witnessing is employed? 2) Can rifle/pistol/shotgun stages be shot at different times/locations? 3) Will this qual be credited toward any ratings? Thanks View Quote 1. No bipods. 2. Yes. 2a. Each weapons qualification is a stand alone event. They can be shot same day, different days, different places. 3. Yes. I have a Pioneer task book out for printing right now. It will provide much more clarity and lots of events in detail. It won't necessarily tell you how to do the events, but how you'll be evaluated on your ability to complete them. I'll post supplemental guidance (references) when the books are released. |
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Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Support NBB and Virginia: https://www.gofundme.com/f/nbb-hiking-club-support Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed |
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Are slings permitted for positions where the elbow of the supporting arm is resting on something solid (as in prone and kneeling)?
ETA: I saw for prone that it says "unsupported", so I'm assuming not. |
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The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton |
Originally Posted By bigstick61: Are slings permitted for positions where the elbow of the supporting arm is resting on something solid (as in prone and kneeling)? ETA: I saw for prone that it says "unsupported", so I'm assuming not. View Quote I'll figure out a way to clarify, technically resting your magazine on the deck is ok, but a bipod is not. Using a sling at 100y shouldn't be necessary for a target this size, but as it is an integral part of your weapon (all rifles should have slings) I can't see that being an issue. I'll check with the folks that developed the qual. |
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Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Support NBB and Virginia: https://www.gofundme.com/f/nbb-hiking-club-support Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed |
Maybe I missed it...but I can’t find anything on it. Is there an optics magnification limit?
If there is, can I still shoot with an LPVO set to the approved magnification? |
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Sic Semper Tyrannis
Loudoun County 2nd Amendment www.LC2A.org |
Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Support NBB and Virginia: https://www.gofundme.com/f/nbb-hiking-club-support Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed |
On pistol qualification what's your desired hand position and how rigorous are you interested in enforcing specifics of those positions?
USPSA shooting which is what I'm most familiar with has two common positions. Wrists below belt (aka hands relaxed at sides) and wrists above shoulders (aka hands up). Hands at sides More specifically wrists below belt. Wrists above shoulders aka Surrender position Attached File Wrists below shoulders aka "I'm pretending to have my hands up but seeing if anyone calls me on it" is a common "cheat" Attached File I couldn't find a photo example but the other common "cheat" position is the "hunched forward ready to strike like a ninja" with the gun hand hovering over or near the pistol grip. Any guidance you can offer on where to draw the line would be appreciated. |
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Originally Posted By Lomshek: On pistol qualification what's your desired hand position and how rigorous are you interested in enforcing specifics of those positions? USPSA shooting which is what I'm most familiar with has two common positions. Wrists below belt (aka hands relaxed at sides) and wrists above shoulders (aka hands up). Hands at sides https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/808265674.webp?mw=600&mh=338&q=70 More specifically wrists below belt. https://scontent.fymy1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117340648_3478520862160073_2501608664179133191_n.png?_nc_cat=104&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=PAtmTLlUvCgAX9qlX5q&_nc_ht=scontent.fymy1-2.fna&oh=09b1adaff77a435a104b819d17830975&oe=604DD49A Wrists above shoulders aka Surrender position https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/84345/wrists_above_shoulders_jpg-1826061.JPG Wrists below shoulders aka "I'm pretending to have my hands up but seeing if anyone calls me on it" is a common "cheat" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/84345/Wrists_below_shoulders_jpg-1826060.JPG I couldn't find a photo example but the other common "cheat" position is the "hunched forward ready to strike like a ninja" with the gun hand hovering over or near the pistol grip. Any guidance you can offer on where to draw the line would be appreciated. View Quote We do not have a requirement for the location of your hands except that they must not be on the firearm. The unwritten intent is to begin from a casual position hands at your waist/sides, but it is not a hand requirement. |
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Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed |
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I fired the pistol and rifle course of fire with my son and a friend to get a feel for the time involved before I run a group through the pistol qual in a few weeks.
I used my carry pistol (M&P Shield 9mm) for the pistol qual and my 16" DD with a 1-4X burris for the rifle. They don't count for official score but I used USPSA metric (silhouette) targets since that's what I had on hand. The "C" zone is the same width as a B27 8 ring (300 mm wide) and just 20mm taller than a B27 8 ring so it gives a pretty accurate score equivalent. This was fired cold (no warmup) and my first rounds fired in about 2 months. I'm a USPSA shooter so fired as quickly as I could acquire a decent (mostly decent anyway ) sight picture. That translated into using about 50% of the time or a little less. If I could beat slow down into my head the target would be a little prettier. The 25 yard hits were just outside of the A zone. I got sloppy on the 15 yard shots and am pretty sure that's where my miss happened. Attached File Here's the pistol hits by zone and score. A and C zones are 5 points and D zone or head shots are 4 points. 20 A, 15 C, 4 D, 1 M A=100 C=75 D=16 Total - 191 If you get picky and move anything in the outer 50% of the C zone from a 5 point hit to a 4 point hit here's the reduced score. 20 A, 9 C, 10 D, 1 M A=100 C=45 D=40 Total - 185 Here's my son on the 50 yard part of the rifle course of fire. Attached File Rifle was about the same speed (half or so of the allotted time) with a few more misses which I'm pretty sure happened on the 100 yard kneeling portion. Definitely shot faster than I should have there. Stage 2 (5 rounds kneeling, reload, 5 rounds prone) took about 25 seconds instead of the allowed 65 seconds. Here's the target. Gotta work on letting the rifle dip as I fire the round or fix my timing on the trigger or just quit anticipating recoil and driving the rifle down prematurely. Gonna do some High Power this year so maybe the shame of low scores will force me to improve. Attached File This is the rifle score. 24 A, 20 C, 12 D, 4M A=120 C=100 D=48 Total - 268 Here's what the score was if you move everything in the outer half of the C zone to the D zone. 24 A, 13 C, 19 D, 4M A=120 C=65 D=76 Total - 261 |
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Originally Posted By Lomshek: @Ben Sorry to bug you but I was asked a question about sling use for our upcoming qual shoot. Is a person permitted to sling up before the start signal like with a loop sling or hasty sling if they so desire? My interpretation of low ready is rifle shouldered or nearly so with the muzzle angled significantly down & safety on like in the photo below but not slung up or otherwise "prepped". For additional clarification of what low ready is any help would be appreciated... My interpretation of the low ready position. https://blog-images.ammoman.com/blog/media/low_ready_position_rifle.jpg Person somewhat relaxed and rifle pointed downward at 45 degrees or more. My interpretation of a prepped position that does not meet the definition of low ready. https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/57ad0720414fb5e8bfce06f5/1471417258007-27EMMA5S2H20QTORXAQP/image-asset.jpeg View Quote Your interpretation of the position is correct. And they shouldn't be in a loop sling at the start. |
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Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed Want to fund a legal battle against ATF? https://venmo.com/code?user_id=2859249889705984885 |
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@Ben Can sitting be substituted for kneeling in the rifle qual?
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Is there any upcoming qualification, in VA or elsewhere? We coming up around the 1 year mark since we held the last.
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Took a practice run at the pistol qualification today. Definitely gonna need to tape holes after each round. They get hard to count at the end. No shot timer and honestly I don't have a holster for the 1911, but I'm pretty confident I will qualify. I counted 51 of 52 holes. Not sure if I missed a hole or missed the target but oh well.
Attached File |
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"Hey you guys with the glow sticks get over here! You're in range of the flame throwers!"
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Originally Posted By chargerkid5: I counted 51 of 52 holes. Not sure if I missed a hole or missed the target but oh well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/166565/20211121_110913_jpg-2175791.JPG View Quote Pistol qual is 40 rounds and you really do need a shot timer, especially on some of the really fast stages. That said, by the looks of that target I'd say you're correct in your assumption that you can pass it. Lacking a holster, how did you begin the stages? |
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Originally Posted By Redbirdxx: Pistol qual is 40 rounds and you really do need a shot timer, especially on some of the really fast stages. That said, by the looks of that target I'd say you're correct in your assumption that you can pass it. Lacking a holster, how did you begin the stages? View Quote Round 5 is done 3 times. Or at least that's how I read it. So that takes it from 40 to 52. I started with pistol in hand at my side from a relaxed position. I know the whole thing doesn't count. I'm just getting rounds down range in a drill type format. Edit: oh shit I read round 5 wrong. I cranked 6 shots each time. Reading is fundamental. |
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"Hey you guys with the glow sticks get over here! You're in range of the flame throwers!"
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Stage five is 2 shots x 3 for a total of six shots. Draw and fire two shots in two seconds, repeated three times.
And I'm not trying to bust your balls, good on you for being out there shooting. Edit, just read your edit. If you were getting six shots off in two seconds, I want you on my team. |
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Like I say, no shot timer. Just squeezing as fast as I could. So probably wasn't getting all 6 off in time. I'm no Jerry Miculek.
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"Hey you guys with the glow sticks get over here! You're in range of the flame throwers!"
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// Si vis pacem, para bellum //
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Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed Want to fund a legal battle against ATF? https://venmo.com/code?user_id=2859249889705984885 |
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