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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:32:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: patsue]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By extractr: LOL Same concept has been pushed for ages by one group "thinking" they are superior to another group. Just like in Christ's day. Christians called themselves Jews (which they were along with Christ). The Jews wanted their (brand purity) and labeled them "Christians". Protestant reformers still considered themselves Christians even though they were protesting against aspects of the church, but the Catholic church had to maintain brand purity so they labeled them "protest"ants. The one group simply redefining another group with words, doesn't change the beliefs. It's nothing more then one group trying to feel they are superior to another because of differing beliefs. It's been that way for ages. The Bible has been interpreted many different ways. That is why there are 30,000+ differing Christian sects. The Church of Jesus Christ worships Jesus Christ of the Bible just as any other Bible based church does. A difference of interpretation doesn't make the central figure a different person, otherwise there would be 30,000+ different Jesuses. Just as the Jews of Christ's day labeling Christians as "non-Jews" didn't change the fact that they were still Jews, those today labeling members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as "non-Christian" doesn't make it so. Both are nothing more then opinions. Orthodox Christianity has always stood on the eternally preexistent Christ of John 1:1 and 1:14 and much more both old and New Testament. Mormons don’t. It is just that simple. My whole family on my dad’s side is Mormon and they admit this. The Christ of the LDS Church is not compatible in any way that is important with the Christ of the Bible. It was Joseph Smith and his followers who came along and redefined this. It doesn’t matter who is on the cross and how you define Son of God if one is eternally preexistent and the other isn’t. Not an insult. Just core theology of who Christ actually is. Patrick |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:38:43 AM EDT
[#2]
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:39:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bunchofmidgets: so the locals don’t want it and Mormons not from there are for it. I equate Mormons with gypsies. When I think gypsie, I think sober and family-oriented with good business acumen and integrity. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:40:37 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stillnothere: Wait until it's Islamic types and you're not allowed to complain. Am I wrong in GD if I believe that you should be able to do what you like on your own private property within the law, regardless of what god you worship? |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:42:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: Lying is not a Christian value. The fact that Mormons take their cues from Walt Disney and not Jesus shouldn't be something you brag about, but here we are.  Not sure how you can draw that parallel from what I said, but whatever if that fits your narrative better. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:42:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: I feel sorry for the town. Once Mormons decide to build a temple they have a habit of employing every dirty trick in the book to build it. The site that the St Louis temple is on was once owned by a small Baptist college. When the Baptists put the land up for sale they decided they didn’t want to sell to the Mormons because they didn’t want a temple blocking the main entrance to their school. So the Mormons hired a front man to buy the property claiming to want to build commercial offices. Once the front man bought the land he immediately transferred it to the Mormons who built their temple and the college had to redo the entrance to their school, like they were trying to avoid. You’ve got to be careful when you’re dealing with Mormons. Honesty is not a hallmark of their dealings. Maybe they shouldn’t have sold it if they still wanted to control what happened there? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:43:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nvroundman: Yeah, 20 or 30 feet. Not hundreds. Uh, I think the front doors of the church by my grandma's house were almost 20 feet tall. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:43:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 80085: This doesn’t appear to be a reasonable act by a “best neighbor to have” when the residents of the town oppose the tower of Babylon spire yet the “best neighbor to have” will crush you through the court system to get what they want which is outside the city ordinance. If they cared about being good neighbors or actually are good neighbors then they should simply reduce the height to a value that is in line with existing religious structures in the area. The only thing these “best neighbors” are showing is a determination to get what they want at all cost independent of anyone else or any existing regulation. That’s called being an asshole where I come from. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 80085: Originally Posted By molonlabebronco: This is nothing new. Literally everytime and everywhere they go to build a temple you have people protesting its construction. Even in idaho and utah where there is a huge Mormon population. Yet it gets built and the area around it excels and property values skyrocket. Will happen time and time again. Mormons are by far and away the best neighbors to have. This doesn’t appear to be a reasonable act by a “best neighbor to have” when the residents of the town oppose the tower of Babylon spire yet the “best neighbor to have” will crush you through the court system to get what they want which is outside the city ordinance. If they cared about being good neighbors or actually are good neighbors then they should simply reduce the height to a value that is in line with existing religious structures in the area. The only thing these “best neighbors” are showing is a determination to get what they want at all cost independent of anyone else or any existing regulation. That’s called being an asshole where I come from. My bet is that the most vocal critics just don’t want the Mormons there, period. If not this, it will be something else. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:44:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan]
[#9]
Haha, Fairview are a bunch of yuppies anyways.
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:45:04 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan: Not sure how you can draw that parallel from what I said, but whatever if that fits your narrative better. You justified Mormons engaging in shady buisness practices by saying Walt Disney did it too. Don't get pissy with me pointing it out. You're the one that did it. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:47:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FuriousYachtsman: Fairview isn't big, but it's also not rural. Hell, this thing is a couple miles away. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/256621/IMG_5116_jpeg-3213881.JPG Strange. The homeowners I know of in Fairview love a good lawsuit to chew on. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:51:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIMARS13A: Does the town have a defining visual characteristic now? Or is it the blandest suburban town imaginable? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIMARS13A: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: The proposed spired here are pretty far outside normal 'tall church' experience. This is a 175' lighthouse in a residential area, to provide some sense of scale of how a 173'-216' tall church spire would dominate the landscape. It would become the defining visual characteristic of the town. https://www.ponceinlet.org/z/-vf.0.0.0.134.DCBF4AF1E0F0136BA8F225992A28629C15298C857311547388ED08039BD2C1C0 Does the town have a defining visual characteristic now? Or is it the blandest suburban town imaginable? The south side has a hoity-toity strip mall across from the ice arena. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:51:50 AM EDT
[#13]
What's with all the people in the thread claiming that property values will skyrocket next to the temple? You guys got any proof at all to back that up?
The most annoying thing to the immediate neighbors would be the light. The temples are lit up like Times Square 24/7 |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:53:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: I feel sorry for the town. Once Mormons decide to build a temple they have a habit of employing every dirty trick in the book to build it. The site that the St Louis temple is on was once owned by a small Baptist college. When the Baptists put the land up for sale they decided they didn’t want to sell to the Mormons because they didn’t want a temple blocking the main entrance to their school. So the Mormons hired a front man to buy the property claiming to want to build commercial offices. Once the front man bought the land he immediately transferred it to the Mormons who built their temple and the college had to redo the entrance to their school, like they were trying to avoid. You’ve got to be careful when you’re dealing with Mormons. Honesty is not a hallmark of their dealings. I have heard those things being bad juju. For instance you don't want to be the non-mormon fire alarm contractor subcontracting under the mormon electric contractor working on the mormon project |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:57:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FuriousYachtsman: There's an In N Out 1 mile away. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FuriousYachtsman: Originally Posted By Azygos: Originally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: This is my area, it’s a big thing right now. A lot of people are less concerned about the obnoxiously high cult-tower and more concerned about the massive influx on traffic on an already semi-rural narrow road. Funny thing is, the property was originally going to be sold to a group who wanted to build a two story medical building but the townspeople freaked out and mixed it. Bet they’re wishing for that doctors office now.. Put an In N Out Burger there instead. That way everyone will be pissed off about the traffic. There's an In N Out 1 mile away. Correct and when it first opened they had police directing traffic during business hours for the first few weeks. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:06:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By itchytrigger: https://blogs-images.forbes.com/kevinmurnane/files/2017/02/nauvoo-2-note-tugs.jpg Didn't they get their ship/community jacked, iirc? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:10:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wizzi01: Uh, I think the front doors of the church by my grandma's house were almost 20 feet tall. Churches aren't what they used to be:   On the upside, the new one supposedly has a drive through for convenience, you can hit up the church on the way back from Costco on the way to Target. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:15:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: I have to strongly disagree with you. There is a theology about the very nature of God that is common with what is commonly defined as "Christians". The beliefs that Mormons have are fundamentally different and (assuming you're Mormon) you know that already. Again, your opinion. Christ's "theology" seemed different to the Jewish leaders too then what they interpreted the scriptures to mean. Didn't make it so. The protestants interpretation was different then the accepted common belief as well. If you are saying members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints don't believe in the nature of God, created by men in politically motivated councils a few centuries after Christ, in an attempt to come to a unity of interpretation, then no, they don't believe in that God/Christ. You do realize, many in the early church, believed the nature of God/Christ is exactly the same as what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches. There were many differences in interpretations. That is why councils were ordered to be convened to settle the "doctrine". The concept of the trinity is what men came up with as their best interpretation. It is not biblical, and did not make it true. So I guess if you are saying the LDS church believes in a Christ different than what men created in political councils and accepted by mainstream Christianity, then I guess you are right in a way. They believe in a Christ that is God's son, and came to earth, born in Bethlehem to Mary, was killed on the cross to atone for the sins of all mankind, and rose from the grave to overcome death. So, the Christ of the Bible. If you believe in some different Jesus, then that's your problem. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:22:16 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Maybe they shouldn’t have sold it if they still wanted to control what happened there? The fact that people lose control of property they sell and The fact that Mormons can't be trusted because they have a long history of using heavy handed tactics, including deception, to get what they want. Are not mutually exclusive realities. So I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:30:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: The fact that people lose control of property they sell and The fact that Mormons can't be trusted because they have a long history of using heavy handed tactics, including deception, to get what they want. Are not mutually exclusive realities. So I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. My point is: Private property is private property. If you don’t like it, tough shit. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:31:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PeepEater]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By extractr: Again, your opinion. Christ's "theology" seemed different to the Jewish leaders too then what they interpreted the scriptures to mean. Didn't make it so. The protestants interpretation was different then the accepted common belief as well. If you are saying members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints don't believe in the nature of God, created by men in politically motivated councils a few centuries after Christ, in an attempt to come to a unity of interpretation, then no, they don't believe in that God/Christ. You do realize, many in the early church, believed the nature of God/Christ is exactly the same as what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches. There were many differences in interpretations. That is why councils were ordered to be convened to settle the "doctrine". The concept of the trinity is what men came up with as their best interpretation. It is not biblical, and did not make it true. So I guess if you are saying the LDS church believes in a Christ different than what men created in political councils and accepted by mainstream Christianity, then I guess you are right in a way. They believe in a Christ that is God's son, and came to earth, born in Bethlehem to Mary, was killed on the cross to atone for the sins of all mankind, and rose from the grave to overcome death. So, the Christ of the Bible. If you believe in some different Jesus, then that's your problem. You realize that all other mainstream sects of Christianity recognize each other as being Christians but not the LDS church? https://www.simplycatholic.com/what-should-catholics-know-about-mormons/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Nicene_Christianity |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:38:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JAD762]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: My point is: Private property is private property. If you don’t like it, tough shit. Super. I'm not arguing against that so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me. My point is that Fairfield is in for a rough time because Mormons have a long history of shady, heavy handed dealings to get what they want. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:45:17 AM EDT
[#23]
It doesn't seem like Fairview Texas has any decent arguments for saying "no". If they want to prohibit buildings over a certain height, they should pass a law doing so. The article didn't mention any such law so I assume they haven't done that.
It doesn't seem right that others can control private property just by saying "we don't like it." |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:48:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By extractr: Again, your opinion. Christ's "theology" seemed different to the Jewish leaders too then what they interpreted the scriptures to mean. Didn't make it so. The protestants interpretation was different then the accepted common belief as well. If you are saying members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints don't believe in the nature of God, created by men in politically motivated councils a few centuries after Christ, in an attempt to come to a unity of interpretation, then no, they don't believe in that God/Christ. You do realize, many in the early church, believed the nature of God/Christ is exactly the same as what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches. There were many differences in interpretations. That is why councils were ordered to be convened to settle the "doctrine". The concept of the trinity is what men came up with as their best interpretation. It is not biblical, and did not make it true. So I guess if you are saying the LDS church believes in a Christ different than what men created in political councils and accepted by mainstream Christianity, then I guess you are right in a way. They believe in a Christ that is God's son, and came to earth, born in Bethlehem to Mary, was killed on the cross to atone for the sins of all mankind, and rose from the grave to overcome death. So, the Christ of the Bible. If you believe in some different Jesus, then that's your problem. The problem with the highlighted statement is how you define the terms you're using. Mormons have a really bad habit of using a Christian thesaurus and a dictionary of their own creation. For instance, you say that Jesus is the son of God, and rightly so. But how does Mormonism define God? According to Joseph Smith: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute this idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. . . It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible . . . Here, then, is eternal life-to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. The Father has a body of flesh and bone as tangible as man’s. . . . ” Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of the Latter Day Saints: Carefully Selected from the Revelations of God. Compiled by Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, and Frederick G. Williams. Kirtland, OH: F. G. Williams, 1835., 130:22. This concept that God was once a man who lived on a different planet is wildly different than anything found in the Bible. To say otherwise is either pure ignorance or pure deception. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:48:30 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIMARS13A: Churches aren't what they used to be: https://goguides.azureedge.net/media/53xc5xbo/88e843e8-e043-4b0f-b101-398d4c4ab7fe.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop&width=1600&height=1066&quality=50 https://www.mergeag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Ccc-overall.jpg On the upside, the new one supposedly has a drive through for convenience, you can hit up the church on the way back from Costco on the way to Target. I kind of figured you'd be all about it. Substance over style and all that. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:49:25 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By security6: It doesn't seem like Fairview Texas has any decent arguments for saying "no". If they want to prohibit buildings over a certain height, they should pass a law doing so. The article didn't mention any such law so I assume they haven't done that. It doesn't seem right that others can control private property just by saying "we don't like it." The zone it is located in has a 35' max height (or two stories). The owners have applied for a conditional use permit to get around that. I quickly scanned all of their zoning regs and 35' seems to be the max in all zones without a conditional use approval. Someone didn't do their homework (doubtful) or felt really certain they could get approved for the variance. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:50:10 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: Snip Let's take that discussion elsewhere. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:57:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Torf: It's not lawfare to sue a city when they deny your applications. The word "lawfare" is losing it's meaning when it's used to describe going up against city hall. NOT that I support their stupid building plans. Just a comment about the term. "Lawfare" has already lost all meaning. Anytime "Someone" is using the legal system to try to do something that somebody else doesn't like? O.M.G.! It's LAWFARE!!  Bigger_Hammer  |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:57:47 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan: Let's take that discussion elsewhere. Why? It was started by a site staffer and is clearly within the bounds of the COC. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:58:11 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By patsue: Orthodox Christianity has always stood on the eternally preexistent Christ of John 1:1 and 1:14 and much more both old and New Testament. Mormons don’t. It is just that simple. My whole family on my dad’s side is Mormon and they admit this. The Christ of the LDS Church is not compatible in any way that is important with the Christ of the Bible. It was Joseph Smith and his followers who came along and redefined this. It doesn’t matter who is on the cross and how you define Son of God if one is eternally preexistent and the other isn’t. Not an insult. Just core theology of who Christ actually is. Patrick Even the nature of God himself is in full disagreement. You can't reconcile a regular person who lived on "an earth," and "became" the god in mormonism (technically one of many, innumerable gods), and on the other hand have the Biblical God who is the only God, and has existed as the only God for all time. https://www.mormonwiki.com/As_Man_Now_Is,_God_Once_Was Nice people, but these are very fundamental differences that can't agree. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:58:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Maybe they'd prefer some low income housing instead
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:00:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By extractr: Again, your opinion. Christ's "theology" seemed different to the Jewish leaders too then what they interpreted the scriptures to mean. Didn't make it so. The protestants interpretation was different then the accepted common belief as well. If you are saying members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints don't believe in the nature of God, created by men in politically motivated councils a few centuries after Christ, in an attempt to come to a unity of interpretation, then no, they don't believe in that God/Christ. You do realize, many in the early church, believed the nature of God/Christ is exactly the same as what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches. There were many differences in interpretations. That is why councils were ordered to be convened to settle the "doctrine". The concept of the trinity is what men came up with as their best interpretation. It is not biblical, and did not make it true. So I guess if you are saying the LDS church believes in a Christ different than what men created in political councils and accepted by mainstream Christianity, then I guess you are right in a way. They believe in a Christ that is God's son, and came to earth, born in Bethlehem to Mary, was killed on the cross to atone for the sins of all mankind, and rose from the grave to overcome death. So, the Christ of the Bible. If you believe in some different Jesus, then that's your problem. No, not opinion. It is the stated position of your religion that Jesus is the PHYSICAL son of God and completely different from the Trinitarian view held by all other Christian churches. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:04:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Goosemaster: https://c.tenor.com/nGAfwnMneRQAAAAd/mormons-south-park.gif Originally Posted By MadMonkey: That episode is excellent. In true South Park tradition - Absolutely Brutal (on Smith & the Mormons) but still funny as Hell. Parker & Stone also involved in the Broadway show "Book of Mormon" too. Bigger_Hammer |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:07:59 PM EDT
[#34]
It’s a shame this thread devolved into a circular gunfight. It was an interesting discussion about zoning/laws/public voice until the theology debate started.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:10:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thesquidliest: So the Mormons are pulling a Scientology by doing lawfare to get their way? Good for the Mormons. Make them follow their own laws. If the one winney bitch liked the view, he should have bought the land. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:13:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By extractr: Again, your opinion. Christ's "theology" seemed different to the Jewish leaders too then what they interpreted the scriptures to mean. Didn't make it so. The protestants interpretation was different then the accepted common belief as well. If you are saying members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints don't believe in the nature of God, created by men in politically motivated councils a few centuries after Christ, in an attempt to come to a unity of interpretation, then no, they don't believe in that God/Christ. You do realize, many in the early church, believed the nature of God/Christ is exactly the same as what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches. There were many differences in interpretations. That is why councils were ordered to be convened to settle the "doctrine". The concept of the trinity is what men came up with as their best interpretation. It is not biblical, and did not make it true. So I guess if you are saying the LDS church believes in a Christ different than what men created in political councils and accepted by mainstream Christianity, then I guess you are right in a way. They believe in a Christ that is God's son, and came to earth, born in Bethlehem to Mary, was killed on the cross to atone for the sins of all mankind, and rose from the grave to overcome death. So, the Christ of the Bible. If you believe in some different Jesus, then that's your problem. The Christian Triune God and Mormon god are theologically completely different. Your ramblings have 0 base in fact. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:20:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azygos: It’s a shame this thread devolved into a circular gunfight. It was an interesting discussion about zoning/laws/public voice until the theology debate started. Even issues of "Freedom of Religion" involved too. Theological Discussions should take it elsewhere. Bigger_Hammer |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:21:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azygos: It’s a shame this thread devolved into a circular gunfight. It was an interesting discussion about zoning/laws/public voice until the theology debate started. GD gonna GD 
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:22:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 56xdx_Z]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: The problem with the highlighted statement is how you define the terms you're using. Mormons have a really bad habit of using a Christian thesaurus and a dictionary of their own creation. For instance, you say that Jesus is the son of God, and rightly so. But how does Mormonism define God? According to Joseph Smith: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute this idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. . . It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible . . . Here, then, is eternal life-to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. The Father has a body of flesh and bone as tangible as man’s. . . . ” Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of the Latter Day Saints: Carefully Selected from the Revelations of God. Compiled by Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, and Frederick G. Williams. Kirtland, OH: F. G. Williams, 1835., 130:22. This concept that God was once a man who lived on a different planet is wildly different than anything found in the Bible. To say otherwise is either pure ignorance or pure deception. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: The problem with the highlighted statement is how you define the terms you're using. Mormons have a really bad habit of using a Christian thesaurus and a dictionary of their own creation. For instance, you say that Jesus is the son of God, and rightly so. But how does Mormonism define God? According to Joseph Smith: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute this idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. . . It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible . . . Here, then, is eternal life-to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. The Father has a body of flesh and bone as tangible as man’s. . . . ” Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of the Latter Day Saints: Carefully Selected from the Revelations of God. Compiled by Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, and Frederick G. Williams. Kirtland, OH: F. G. Williams, 1835., 130:22. This concept that God was once a man who lived on a different planet is wildly different than anything found in the Bible. To say otherwise is either pure ignorance or pure deception. And God the Father is not the only one of those men ascended to godhood. From Catholic Answers: Joseph Smith, Mormonism’s founder, taught the doctrine of a “plurality of gods”—polytheism—as the bedrock belief of his church. He developed this doctrine over a period of years to reflect his belief that not only are there many gods, but they once were mortal men who had developed in righteousness until they had learned enough and merited godhood. They have a song called "Praise to the Man" where it sings about Joseph Smith mingling with gods (plural) Joseph Smith also said this : "Paul says there are Gods many and Lords many. I want t o set it forth in a plain and simple manner; but t o us there is but one God- that is pertaining to us . . . I say there are Gods many and Lords many, but t o us only one, and we are t o be in subjection to that one Taken from here, a mormon document trying to define their own view of God https://sunstone.org/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/045-23-27.pdf The idea that a created being could ascend to being God the Father is found in the bible, but not in a good way |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:22:34 PM EDT
[#40]
lol
These mormon threads are so predictable. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:35:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PeepEater: You realize that all other mainstream sects of Christianity recognize each other as being Christians but not the LDS church? https://www.simplycatholic.com/what-should-catholics-know-about-mormons/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Nicene_Christianity Watching christians gatekeep christianity is always entertaining. Its funny seeing the cognitive dissonance in action. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:36:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Boomer]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JackRebney: lol These mormon threads are so predictable. No shit. And is exactly why Mormons and others have to go to some if the lengths that they do to get some of their buildings constructed. “Can’t be having dem der not-Xtians/cultists in mah nayberhud.” |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:37:49 PM EDT
[#43]
I think the temple right downtown Provo is pretty impressive architecture.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:41:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Thank God for government. That government has to buy fire trucks equipped to put out fires on and access buildings over 35'. Now those fire trucks don't fit in the fire house, going to have to build bigger fire houses. You think the church is going to foot the bill for that? You people act like some of these restrictions get pulled out of someone's ass. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:47:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Watching christians gatekeep christianity is always entertaining. Its funny seeing the cognitive dissonance in action. Words mean things. Christianity has some unifying beliefs that aren't shared by the Mormon church. Now if you want to define Christianity as "We believe in a guy named Jesus", then I suppose you have a point. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:49:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Torf: That modern building has vastly more efficient HVAC, better lighting, more hygienic facilities, and can more comfortably and more safely accommodate far higher numbers of parishioners. I kind of figured you'd be all about it. Substance over style and all that. And yet people travel from all over the world to see Notre Dame and the church in Chandler has a drive through so people don't have to get out of their car. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:49:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By callmestick: That government has to buy fire trucks equipped to put out fires on and access buildings over 35'. Now those fire trucks don't fit in the fire house, going to have to build bigger fire houses. You think the church is going to foot the bill for that? You people act like some of these restrictions get pulled out of someone's ass. The existence of a tall building in the municipality doesn’t require the fire department to change anything. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:52:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Words mean things. Christianity has some unifying beliefs that aren't shared by the Mormon church. Now if you want to define Christianity as "We believe in a guy named Jesus", then I suppose you have a point. I mean... if you pull up the dictionaries... |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:52:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By callmestick: That government has to buy fire trucks equipped to put out fires on and access buildings over 35'. Now those fire trucks don't fit in the fire house, going to have to build bigger fire houses. You think the church is going to foot the bill for that? You people act like some of these restrictions get pulled out of someone's ass. You think they're going to need a fire truck to put out a fire on a spire? You think that there are't fire trucks that can reach that high that are smaller than the giant shit that fire departments buy now? |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:54:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shadyman: I think the temple right downtown Provo is pretty impressive architecture. The temples are gorgeous across the board imo. |
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