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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:22:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1245xx]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Techron is the most common. Redline SL-1. A few others with Amines. I’m gonna have to check out that Techron stuff. Didn’t realize I could get it in a bottle. I was thinking I had to buy their gas and it’s pretty expensive. Edit. I don’t use oil treatments, just synthetic oil for oil changes. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:23:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Ost
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:26:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: I've never added a thing to my oil, trans fluid, gear oil, etc. (I used to own an Escort that would burn a quart a week) |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:38:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AngryNagant: Todd from Project Farm tested some and a few worked a little IIRC. He is one of the best oil analysts on YouTube. Lol. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:48:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By madcap3k: How about whale oil to tranny fluid? Is that okay? For some reason midcap and his used car lot popped into my head. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:49:21 PM EDT
[#6]
This will be fun to watch.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:51:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frayedknot: The internet told me to add ZDDP to my 06 Jeep LJR. Are you saying the internet is wrong? Your catalytic convertor will not love you |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:59:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bravo_Six]
[#8]
I know mechanics who swear by BG 44K. Is that in the same category as Seafoam?
ETA: this is for fuel additive, not oil. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:19:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Check your local auto parts stores. A lot of times they will sell Techron as buy one get one free so $20 for two bottles.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:19:48 PM EDT
[#10]
I have never added anthing to my oil and will continue put nothing but oil in my engine.
OTOH, someone once told me that that thick yellow lucas fuel additive would prevent alchohol related problems from storing small engines over the winter with fuel in them; tried it, it works, will continue. Haven't had a crusty carb or needed to drain a tank for a decade at least. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:21:02 PM EDT
[#11]
In before CapnRob sets OP straight.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:23:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AngryNagant: Todd from Project Farm tested some and a few worked a little IIRC. He is one of the best oil analysts on YouTube. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:27:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Thoughts on Archoil AR9100. I don't know shit about oil, but if I don't use this stuff every oil change my Ford 6.0 will have a cold engine miss like crazy from injector issues. It was recommended to me by an engine shop and it literally fixed (masked) the issue for several years now. I'm curious as to the science behind it honestly. It's the only "mechanic in a bottle" that has ever worked for me.
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:28:04 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a neighbor that runs vintage oil in his antique cars and trucks. He still finds full cases from time to time of the old metal quarts and uses that for his oil changes.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:42:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDLS: In before CapnRob sets OP straight.  |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:47:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Techron is the most common. Redline SL-1. A few others with Amines. Redline FTW |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:50:48 PM EDT
[#17]
How is PUP? Best cheap oil?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:06:44 PM EDT
[#18]
I always enjoy your contributions Foxtrot08.
I was in the drag racer diesel game for a long time, and your content was always spot on. |
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SK, CAN
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:32:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Hey Foxtrot08
Seafoam must clean injectors etc. added to fuel. is Seafoam not just white gas or Naptha. What I found a true story by the way, rebuilding from scratch a 2003 5.3LS tried everything to degrease and clean carbon off of everything. Parts cleaner was no good regardless of what kind all it did was get rid of the oil did not clean, left dirt in the castings etc. Tried seafoam and shit it cleaned carbon deposits way better than a parts cleaner. Found out its white gas mostly, well, well Sea Foam is kind of expensive in a small bottle, so bought Colemans fuel in a gallon can and shit best damn cleaner i have used to clean heads, valves and the block etc. So it has to do its job in cleaning the fuel system right? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:01:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jmiddy: Hey Foxtrot08 Seafoam must clean injectors etc. added to fuel. is Seafoam not just white gas or Naptha. What I found a true story by the way, rebuilding from scratch a 2003 5.3LS tried everything to degrease and clean carbon off of everything. Parts cleaner was no good regardless of what kind all it did was get rid of the oil did not clean, left dirt in the castings etc. Tried seafoam and shit it cleaned carbon deposits way better than a parts cleaner. Found out its white gas mostly, well, well Sea Foam is kind of expensive in a small bottle, so bought Colemans fuel in a gallon can and shit best damn cleaner i have used to clean heads, valves and the block etc. So it has to do its job in cleaning the fuel system right? The problem with Naptha / mineral spirits / etc is simply the fact they’re not detergents. They’re solvents. They’re going into a solvent that is a like solvent. So you simply have too much dilution. Detergents have polar ends. Which will grab and soften varnish up. Which means it then can be dispersed in the solvents (gasoline.) Really ethanol is a fantastic cleaner as well. So with premium fuel, you don’t need to add too much to it. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:05:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NarcedDiver: Thoughts on Archoil AR9100. I don't know shit about oil, but if I don't use this stuff every oil change my Ford 6.0 will have a cold engine miss like crazy from injector issues. It was recommended to me by an engine shop and it literally fixed (masked) the issue for several years now. I'm curious as to the science behind it honestly. It's the only "mechanic in a bottle" that has ever worked for me. Use a better oil? We haven’t had too much of a problem with our 6.0s for that. But we are down to our last few. Really if you want to fix fix the problem, go with a stout 5w40 or a full synthetic 15w40. A lot of people get that issue and run Rotella. Rotella foams. Foaming will increase that issue. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:09:57 PM EDT
[#22]
I always put oil in my oil.
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MP, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:10:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Underscore_O_Three]
[#23]
My Onan 13.5kW deisel generator recommends SAE30 every 200hrs. I use Rotella because that is available at every marine supply store. It has 4000 hrs on it. Is there a recommendation to increase frequency of changes as the engine gets more use?
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:17:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: shack357]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JamPo: When you say “don’t use sea foam”, as an oil additive or does this include as a fuel additive as well? A BIG problem with people using Seafoam is the idiots who put the whole can in the oil. Read the can. Even the Seafoam people say use an ounce of Seafoam per quart of oil. ETA-I'm a no additive person too, the amount of people who just love them are unreal. Keeping oil and coolant at the proper levels will do better than any additive will. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:25:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By flippflopped: They void the warranty on your fuel system. That's weird because GM literally recommends using one for all the new Duramaxes in the owner's manual lol |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:30:00 PM EDT
[#26]
I have been watching a few of his videos. pretty interesting stuff. The old oil that separated and dropped out of suspension was an interesting video.
We had a new oil lab built at work the other year and has some new equipment that we didn't have before. I get my cars oils tested when I change them but haven't sent any new oil for tests. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:36:13 PM EDT
[#27]
What the fuck does OP even know about oil?!
Has Op even worked with oil in his life? 
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:44:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Will a high ester oil help with the stuck rings in my Honda? If so, where to buy some?
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:44:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDLS: In before CapnRob sets OP straight. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDLS: In before CapnRob sets OP straight. Lol Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot: What the fuck does OP even know about oil?! Has Op even worked with oil in his life? ...and here we go.  |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:06:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 917-30: Lol ...and here we go. 
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:15:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Healthy, hetero love, man…
Seriously. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jchewie1]
[#32]
ZDDP.
Would you recommend or forbid its use in a 1973 Ford tractor 3 cylinder gasoline engine (flat tappets) and that to the best of my knowledge does not have hardened valve seats? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:43:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Foxtrot08]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jchewie1: ZDDP. Would you recommend or forbid its use in a 1973 Ford tractor 3 cylinder gasoline engine (flat tappets) and that to the best of my knowledge does not have hardened valve seats? Just use a diesel engine oil, seriously. I have a 1952 Farmall Super C. It just gets 15w40. I also have a 1948 International T6 crawler. It also, gets 15w40. It’s cheaper than gasoline oil + additives. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:48:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Underscore_O_Three: My Onan 13.5kW deisel generator recommends SAE30 every 200hrs. I use Rotella because that is available at every marine supply store. It has 4000 hrs on it. Is there a recommendation to increase frequency of changes as the engine gets more use? Nah. Something like that it’s fine. You’re doing fine. I don’t like Rotella, but if it’s easy for you to get cool. Might just change to a 10w30 is all. As those old straight weights are getting harder to find. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:49:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Just use a diesel engine oil, seriously. I have a 1952 Farmall Super C. It just gets 15w40. I also have a 1948 International T6 crawler. It also, gets 15w40. It’s cheaper than gasoline oil + additives. Ok, thanks! |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:57:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jchewie1: Ok, thanks! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jchewie1: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Just use a diesel engine oil, seriously. I have a 1952 Farmall Super C. It just gets 15w40. I also have a 1948 International T6 crawler. It also, gets 15w40. It’s cheaper than gasoline oil + additives. Ok, thanks! Your main concern with those older engines is going to be fuel dilution from blow by. Turbo or not, simply put they’re older engines. They’re going to have some wear. They’ll keep trucking. But that will kill the oil’s viscosity which will lead to damage well before any lack of ZDDP does. Diesel engine oils typically can handle fuel dilution better. This is also why I run a “euro” engine oil with diesel ratings, on a 500hp tuned Eco boost and x2 5.0 Mustangs (2019 and 2024 - literally a week old) It’s not so much the ZDDP I’m worried about over all. It’s the robustness of the oil to hand fuel. Typically called TBN, but there’s other ways to combat fuel acids than TBN now a days. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:06:17 PM EDT
[#37]
My great aunt took my grandpa's 1979 F150 to a mechanic to try to revive it. It had 15 year old gas in it and the engine hadn't been turned over in that amount of time either, nor had the tires been moved. Genius mechanic apparently put Sea Foam in every orifice he could find, hoping that would magic the machine back to life. Took me a long time to un-fuck that thing. I found some of said mechanic's tools randomly laying around in the frame.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:07:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nvgeologist: Neat! Now how about diesel fuel additives?  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:08:24 PM EDT
[#39]
As usual thank you for your time and patience.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:09:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By creeper45: Originally Posted By nvgeologist: Neat! Now how about diesel fuel additives? Diesel fuel will get worse before it gets better. As they strip the sulfur out and hydro crack it more and more. It raises the cetane significantly. We are seeing cetane tests out of refineries at 56-58. But that means there’s not going to be any additives that help it out really. With bio diesel being forcefully included, it makes up for the lack of lubricity for the pumps. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:11:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: alphabavo]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Nah. Something like that it’s fine. You’re doing fine. I don’t like Rotella, but if it’s easy for you to get cool. Might just change to a 10w30 is all. As those old straight weights are getting harder to find. Does that include T6? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:16:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Foxtrot08]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By alphabavo: Does that include T6? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By alphabavo: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Nah. Something like that it’s fine. You’re doing fine. I don’t like Rotella, but if it’s easy for you to get cool. Might just change to a 10w30 is all. As those old straight weights are getting harder to find. Does that include T6? Yes. I mean the biggest issue with any Rotella is that it foams. Foaming leads to oxidation. Oxidation leads to varnish and also shearing. You can go back now close to 2 decades of posting I’ve done on here and see that I’ve said that same exact thing. He did a video at HPL’s lab a few weeks ago. Also the guy who owns HPL is legit. Nice guy. Went out of his way to visit me even though we don’t directly do business. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:27:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Foxtrot talks
I listens. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:27:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Assuming they have non-felt or non-cork gaskets in them, redline will work fine. You can also use the VR1 oils from Valvoline. Few other options out there depending on your price point. Heck, even a CK4 10w30 diesel engine oil meets SN ratings typically. They would be fine. I am out of the industry now, at least on a FT basis, but IIRC diesel spec oils don't have the full anti-foaming content necessary to run in higher revving IC engines - by higher revving, I mean anything over 4k rpm. Back in the day when I my people were running lube tests, it was shocking how much difference just a small change in anti-foaming additives made. It was the difference between losing the engine or trans and not losing it. In other words, not a great idea to run a diesel spec oil in any IC engine that might see some revs. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:28:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Saw that video earlier as I'm subscribed. It's solid stuff.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:34:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VVinci: I am out of the industry now, at least on a FT basis, but IIRC diesel spec oils don't have the full anti-foaming content necessary to run in higher revving IC engines - by higher revving, I mean anything over 4k rpm. Back in the day when I my people were running lube tests, it was shocking how much difference just a small change in anti-foaming additives made. It was the difference between losing the engine or trans and not losing it. In other words, not a great idea to run a diesel spec oil in any IC engine that might see some revs. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VVinci: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Assuming they have non-felt or non-cork gaskets in them, redline will work fine. You can also use the VR1 oils from Valvoline. Few other options out there depending on your price point. Heck, even a CK4 10w30 diesel engine oil meets SN ratings typically. They would be fine. I am out of the industry now, at least on a FT basis, but IIRC diesel spec oils don't have the full anti-foaming content necessary to run in higher revving IC engines - by higher revving, I mean anything over 4k rpm. Back in the day when I my people were running lube tests, it was shocking how much difference just a small change in anti-foaming additives made. It was the difference between losing the engine or trans and not losing it. In other words, not a great idea to run a diesel spec oil in any IC engine that might see some revs. SN rated ones typically do. But a quick oil sample or googling a VOA of one can show that. Anti foam is definitely a concern but these aren’t engines running 10,000rpms either. If they’re truly a racing engine, then spend the money on redline, HPL, driven, Etc. But for an older car before the 90s, running in a stock configuration, not with a whipple thrown on it or such. Then yeah, a modern SN rated, CK4 oil is a cheap fix. Has enough anti foam, more than enough zinc, with enough calcium to keep the acid down. But yes, any truly high performance engine should use equivalent oil. If you’re going to spend the money to build it, spend the money to maintain it properly. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:36:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Thanks for the thread OP.
Reminds me of when I worked at the Co-Op. had an old farmer with a V-8 Cadillac(northstar?). He would either put in 15w-40 and some god awful thick yellowish orange additive or forgo it on the next and have us use straight 30. Kinda wonder how that went with all the modern oil systems lol |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:37:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Also fun note, a lot of older “sludge” issues are directly caused by too much ZDDP in engine oils.
Zinc causes sludge. Which is why large turbine and hydraulic equipment is moving away from zinc based anti wear. I’m talking oil sumps whose volume is in the tens of thousand of gallons. Whose oil life is measured in years if not decades. Systems that cost tens of millions of dollars and even more to take down / replace / repair. The best modern hydraulic oils are zinc free. I just wrote a paper on this ironically. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:41:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Meh, We just run 2197 in everything
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:45:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: There are other AW packages, particularly zinc free additive packages. The cam manufacturers are not oil experts. I'm not an expert on cam shapes or geometry. I don't expect them to understand how ZDDP competes with space on engine oil parts, with different base oils and different additives. As, that's what I'm more of an expert in. But, if you absolutely had to follow that. Use a CK4 diesel engine oil, a good CK4 10w30 or if you want to go synthetic, a 5w40 engine oil. They will typically have that 1100-1300ppm out side of Chevron Delo, which maintains a universal oil rating, so is limited to 800. Chevron likes to do alot with Boron as an AW package, which is what they do with the Delo 600 ADF product. However, more indepth it depends a lot on the base oil and it's polarity. How many polar connections bond with the metals. In turn, they compete with the ZDDP package for space on the metal parts. @Foxtrot08, see my earlier question about anti-foaming content in diesel-rated oils. Is that a concern or not? No production diesel that I know of revs above 4500 or so. I know from experience that if you cross the rpm line where the anti-foaming additives can't keep up, foam formation is just about explosive. It goes from not being there hardly at all to boiling out of every orifice in seconds. WRT to cams, I wonder if you are considering that they are running in an EHL boundary condition? Roller cams run in Hertzian conditions too, but that is a rolling line contact more akin to a ball or roller bearing. The same point on the roller is never in continuous contact. However, on a flat tappet cam (is there still one in production by any first world automaker?) the Hertzian contact is continuous at the convex point on the lifter, with some spreading of the theoretical point contact into an actual patch due to both metal elasticity and the thickness of the lube layer. And there is also some sliding, similar to a hypoid gear, much more than in a roller cam. This implies the need for EP additives. I can't really think of anything else in a modern roller cam engine that would have similar EHL conditions that would require an EP or similar additive in an oil. It would make sense that the automakers eliminated any requirements for such an additive, ie, ZDDP or similar, as a cost save. All that to say, as a powertrain engineer, I can see the thought process that leads to people believing flat tappet cams need a different lube spec. The question for you is whether modern oils have the correct additive package to deal with sliding Hertzian contact in a boundary lubrication situation? I don't know, I'm asking. I suspect a lot of the modern concerns come from the fact that cams rounding off and chewing up lifters is perceived is being more common today than it was in the past. IDK if that is an oil problem, a made-in-China mfg problem, or just perception? |
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