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Posted: 5/11/2024 7:52:52 AM EDT
I work at a equipment dealership. We sell everything from residential to commercial mowers, compact to large AG tractors, and all equipment and attachment for said equipment.
When I started 15 years ago, 99% of trucks used by the commercial mowing guys and the farmers were diesel. Now, I would say only about 1/4 of the trucks coming in are diesel. Most of the larger commercial guys have switched to the 4 door cab over trucks with gas engines. The rest are using 3/4 ton gas trucks. Farmers, more and more are running gas 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. I'm seeing more dually chevy gas trucks than I ever have. They all say the same thing. Maintenance and REPAIRS on the new diesels are stupid expensive and they are sick of it. Also fuel costs. They say the gas may not pull quite as good, but it is a hell of a lot cheaper to run and repair. Seems people are getting sick of the emissions diesel engine. Same thing with tractors. Rarely anyone trades in a pre emission tractor, and when they do, it is usually sold fast. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 7:54:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: n20junkie]
[#1]
Diesels got too complicated, too maintenance intensive, too expensive to maintain.
Sharks jumping n stuff. Gas FTW. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 7:55:11 AM EDT
[#2]
87 sensors for emissions and DPF.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 7:56:31 AM EDT
[#3]
The EPA turned diesel engines gay.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:02:09 AM EDT
[#4]
I drive a gas 1 ton.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:02:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AK-12]
[#5]
Last I checked, which was a couple of years ago, adding the diesel option upped the curb weight and price of a truck by about 1,000 lbs and $10k.
For a 3/4 ton truck the added curb weight eats out a lot of payload capacity (payload is GVWR - weight of the truck/passengers etc...), meaning that something like a highly optioned mega cab 2500 with the Cummins could have a payload of around 1800 lbs, whereas the Hemi payload would be closer to 2800lbs. So maybe the Hemi can only tow 14,000 lbs and the Cummins can tow 20,000; but any trailer that weighs that much is going to add so much pin weight that the truck wouldn't have the payload to handle it anyway, meaning you'd need a 1 ton. And realistically, the main difference between 1 tons and 3/4 tons is the suspension, the cost increase is negligible. With the added difference in cost, maintenance, fuel, DEF, etc... I wouldn't buy a diesel unless I really needed one. If I were getting a 3/4 ton I'd get a big gas engine no question. The available gas engine/transmission combos nowadays make plenty of power for anything you should really be doing with a 3/4 ton, and if I needed a diesel I'd just get a 1 ton, and if I needed as much payload as possible without needing to pull more than 15k or so I'd get a 1 ton gasser. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:04:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Yep. We just replaced our Sierra HD diesels for gas burners. Something like 10-12k cheaper per truck, and do not have to worry about all the EPA regulated bullshit failing.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:04:29 AM EDT
[#7]
We have a Ram dually at work with the 6.4 and it runs better than any truck that size has a right to. I wish they’d put the 6.4 in the 1500.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:05:01 AM EDT
[#8]
A good friend of mine is a self employed heavy equipment mechanic. He is PROUD of his no emmissions old Mack servi e truck. He bought it for a reason.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:05:46 AM EDT
[#9]
I don't know a single farmer with a gas truck.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:06:07 AM EDT
[#10]
Gas 1 ton trucks are used by the ultimate upper middle class cosplayer for towing their camper 4 days a year
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:06:17 AM EDT
[#11]
The Ford 7.3, Ram 6.4 & Chevy 6.6 are impressive in both power and efficiency. Little reason to buy a diesel truck unless you need the power every day.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:06:23 AM EDT
[#12]
If you hit a large stump on a fire break at your hunting club just right at 87 mph...
That SCR and EGR will sometimes fall off. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:08:34 AM EDT
[#13]
I love driving a diesel.
But the intermittent check engine light, $6k in repairs in the last 6 months (all DPF, SCR, EGR related), limp home mode all make it more of a pain in the ass than it's worth. Mercedes covered about $30k in emissions-related repairs for me in the last year. Including a 400 mile flat-bed tow. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:09:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Gas engines are good and cheap. Decently powerful too. Diesel is expensive and compromised by all the emissions bs. My employer has more or less moved away from buying diesel delivery vehicles. Can’t remember the last time we got a new one. We have some cummins and Benz but they are getting up to 500-700k miles and getting mothballed. Even our tractors are a mix of diesel, CNG, and LNG . Having had both a 6.7 power stroke and several 6.X gas engines my next truck will be a 3/4 ton gasser. The power of the diesel is so nice though.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:12:09 AM EDT
[#15]
All I buy is gas 3/4 ton 4X4 trucks. I just don't tow heavy enough to justify the expense of diesel.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:12:10 AM EDT
[#16]
Todays gas engines make more torque and horsepower than the diesels from 20 years ago. Combined with modern transmissions they pull great.
Diesels just aren't worth the extra cost for many users. I bought a 7.3 and I'm pretty happy with it. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:12:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WWolfe: I love driving a diesel. But the intermittent check engine light, $6k in repairs in the last 6 months (all DPF, SCR, EGR related), limp home mode all make it more of a pain in the ass than it's worth. Mercedes covered about $30k in emissions-related repairs for me in the last year. Including a 400 mile flat-bed tow. It seems that the vast majority of our tractors repairs and issues are related to emissions. Nothing in those systems is inexpensive. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:13:51 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Badlatitude: I don't know a single farmer with a gas truck. My neighbor is a farmer. 3 trucks, all gassers. Hell, I think his grain truck is a gasser too. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:14:30 AM EDT
[#19]
I live up the road from a big cattle company and see lots of farmers bringing cattle everyday. I've seen a big shift in trucks as well, but it's to larger trucks.
3500 dodge/ram have dominated for years now I'm seeing a lot of single axle semi trucks. Instead of a 1 ton diesel they buy a single axle pre emissions or deleted semi and daily a gas 3/4. I think it's emissions combined with prices of new diesel trucks. You can buy a nice used single axle for less than $20,000 and it will for years. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:14:38 AM EDT
[#20]
A mow and blow guy doesn't need a diesel to pull a landscape trailer, even with a couple of big zero turns on it.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:15:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Just bought a F250. Got. 7.3 gasser. $13k for the diesel to pay an extra $1/gallon and get the joy of having a shitload of emissions problems latter. Pass. Good job feds. You fucked up diesel trucks just like you fuck up everything else you touch.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:17:59 AM EDT
[#22]
I just bought a 2024 GMC 2500HD with a gas motor. The diesels are a pain in the ass with all the maintenance, additives, increased cost to purchase, and the fuel cost is higher negating the increased mileage. My truck is rated to pull 16,000 lbs, which is double what I would ever need. The Federal government seriously fucked up diesels and they are going to do the same to the gas motors now. I just bought my last truck!
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:30:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vinyl: The EPA turned diesel engines gay. New diesels make great power but with the costs of ULSD fuel that's higher than premium gas, DEF, the costs of servicing and the fact that they've destroyed the reliability with all the added emission equipment it makes sense that many are switching to gassers. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:33:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seabee_Mech: Yup, diesel fuel used to be cheaper than regular gas (prior to LSD/ULSD) and the engines were known for making decent power, good mileage with a long life span and low maintenance costs. New diesels make great power but with the costs of ULSD fuel that's higher than premium gas, DEF, the costs of servicing and the fact that they've destroyed the reliability with all the added emission equipment it makes sense that many are switching to gassers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seabee_Mech: Originally Posted By vinyl: The EPA turned diesel engines gay. New diesels make great power but with the costs of ULSD fuel that's higher than premium gas, DEF, the costs of servicing and the fact that they've destroyed the reliability with all the added emission equipment it makes sense that many are switching to gassers. All that plus the buy-in cost on new trucks, it's definitely a turn off. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:38:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vinyl: The EPA turned diesel engines gay. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:38:42 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wakeboarder: Gas 1 ton trucks are used by the ultimate upper middle class cosplayer for towing their camper 4 days a year  Attached File |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:50:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GTTacoma]
[#27]
Not really surprising.. High sulfur diesels are "Princess and the Pea" trucks. Much too sensitive for people who just want boring, simple, reliable work trucks. USLD engines are really a complete 180 from the old diesels running on McDonald french fry grease.
A big block V8 with deep gears might be slower and not as cool, but it sure is simpler. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:52:21 AM EDT
[#28]
OP isn’t wrong. I see a lot of Toyota Tundras running around now pulling heavy equipment or trailers loaded down with lawn maintenance equipment. It seems reliability trumps a little more power and towing capability that’s never utilized.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:53:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vinyl: The EPA turned diesel engines gay. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:59:14 AM EDT
[#30]
6.2 super duty ftw
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:02:31 AM EDT
[#31]
FK the EPA!!!! They fk up everything from the auto industry to burning your damn leaves
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:04:17 AM EDT
[#32]
I wish I could find a Dodge Ram 1 ton regular cab with a hemi. Everything is a stupid crew cab.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:05:03 AM EDT
[#33]
The government does not care about repair cost as long as emissions are rainbows and kittens. This is a hidden way the government creates extra inflation. UPS has been buying gas trucks for years now.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:05:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Inimicalone: I drive a gas 1 ton. Same here. Only wish I had 4.10 or 4.30 gears. Truck did well with multiple trips around the country with my camper, but I would have liked lower gears. Had three diesels prior to this truck but the cost is not worth it for me. My next truck will also be gas. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:06:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: 6.2 super duty ftw Same same. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:11:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: thesquidliest]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wakeboarder: Gas 1 ton trucks are used by the ultimate upper middle class cosplayer for towing their camper 4 days a year Don't remember the last time I washed my truck, but I'll get to it eventually. ETA: Bought mine new in '18 with the 6.4 HEMI because i didn't want to mess with the bullshit diesels of today. My friends clowned me (all have Cummins) but now I have the last laugh. Plenty of hauling power. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:12:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Own a plumbing company.
Our vans used to be diesel but swore off of them lately. Will not own anything diesel newer than 2012 |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:18:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#38]
I’m in a 3/4 ton diesel. Would I do it again? Maybe. Maybe not.
a. DEF is commonly available and goes a LONG way, although it is another gauge to watch. And if you run low or out and are between stations, you’re screwed. b. Two diesel fuel filters (Ram), neither of which is easy to access and messy to change. c. Diesel oil changes cost more. d. Always nervously eyeing the emissions system. Buying that extra extended warranty to cover the emissions system.m because it’s anything but cheap to repair. e. There are fewer diesel mechanics and repair shops, plus the parts are less common so repairs are more expensive. f. Diesel is generally more expensive than gas, although around here it’s now within 0.20/gal of 87 grade. This changes radically when I’m out of state. g. Diesel isn’t available at every station, much less every pump at every station. h. Hauling (versus payload) capacity is lower because diesel engines are that much more expensive. But then there’s the good side: 1. Diesel exhaust braking is beyond useful even when towing a small load in urban freeway traffic. It’s a lifesaver when you’ve got a heavy load. 2. Excellent MPG on long trips, especially in flatter areas. 3. Towing (versus payload) capacity is higher. If you’re towing and hauling enough, and/or live in an area with fast-STOP-fast-BRAKE style traffic or steep grades for the exhaust brakes, diesel is the way to go. Do a gasser for any other answer. If I had to do it all over again today, I’d be thinking long and hard about Ford’s Godzilla. But when I’ve got heavy loads in the bed or on a trailer, the diesel handles it like it’s nothing and I LOVE those exhaust brakes. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:19:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskerz: UPS has been buying gas trucks for years now. That is another one I forgot about. ups and fedex used to be all diesel trucks back in the day. Now I have not seen a diesel box van/truck in I don't know how many years. I think they saw the light 20 years ago. When you run and maintain thousands of trucks, having cheaper fuel and repair bills really pays off. Who cares if the trucks struggle going up a steep hill a little. I am seeing more and more smaller delivery vans too. Stuff like those ford transit and whatnot. I see 2-3 of those to every standard box truck. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:23:00 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By prebans: DEF is commonly available and goes a LONG way, although it is another gauge to watch. And if you run low or out and are between stations, you’re screwed. Had a couple guys talk about getting caught with their pants down with that. They let the def tank get low, then they could not find anywhere with any and then got stuck at derate with a max speed of 5 mph. One guy had the truck deleted after that. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:25:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Had a couple guys talk about getting caught with their pants down with that. They let the def tank get low, then they could not find anywhere with any and then got stuck at derate with a max speed of 5 mph. One guy had the truck deleted after that. When I’m on any sort of journey, I keep a spare jug of DEF with me to avoid getting stuck in some backwater without services.  I’ve read too many nightmare stories like that, and I did read of at least one guy dying from being stranded due to DEF in ugly weather.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:28:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: I work at a equipment dealership. We sell everything from residential to commercial mowers, compact to large AG tractors, and all equipment and attachment for said equipment. When I started 15 years ago, 99% of trucks used by the commercial mowing guys and the farmers were diesel. Now, I would say only about 1/4 of the trucks coming in are diesel. Most of the larger commercial guys have switched to the 4 door cab over trucks with gas engines. The rest are using 3/4 ton gas trucks. Farmers, more and more are running gas 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. I'm seeing more dually chevy gas trucks than I ever have. They all say the same thing. Maintenance and REPAIRS on the new diesels are stupid expensive and they are sick of it. Also fuel costs. They say the gas may not pull quite as good, but it is a hell of a lot cheaper to run and repair. Seems people are getting sick of the emissions diesel engine. Same thing with tractors. Rarely anyone trades in a pre emission tractor, and when they do, it is usually sold fast. You're really going to trigger the "muh diesel" crowd with this information. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:32:14 AM EDT
[#43]
As a retired refinery engineer, diesel is not hard to make, in fact it is one of the easiest....but I do want to clarify, diesel the old way. Now with the government having a war on diesel and the sulphur content, it is a pain in the ass to make. The government regulations essentially fucked up a very simple product.
There is NO WAY in the world I would own a diesel truck these days. Diesel is square in the cross hairs of federal regulations and with the diesel trucks these days having 150 additional sensors and particulate filters, they are a night mare. Unless you are towing 10K LBS 4X a week, go gas engine. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:32:39 AM EDT
[#44]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:37:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheQuadfather]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wakeboarder: Gas 1 ton trucks are used by the ultimate upper middle class cosplayer for towing their camper 4 days a year My first gas 1-ton was an ‘83, my newest is a ‘21. Had 7 in between. All have been used for ag work. Diesels are and always have been expensive and unreliable. I’ve had 5 diesels from ‘97-2020. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:39:23 AM EDT
[#46]
I left out the part about GCWR being CDL land when you’re a diesel and 1 ton.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:39:48 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 77Bronc: As a retired refinery engineer, diesel is not hard to make, in fact it is one of the easiest....but I do want to clarify, diesel the old way. Now with the government having a war on diesel and the sulphur content, it is a pain in the ass to make. The government regulations essentially fucked up a very simple product. There is NO WAY in the world I would own a diesel truck these days. Diesel is square in the cross hairs of federal regulations and with the diesel trucks these days having 150 additional sensors and particulate filters, they are a night mare. Unless you are towing 10K LBS 4X a week, go gas engine. The purpose of a system is what it does. The purpose of federal automotive regulations is to drive up costs and lower your standard of living. This could be said more broadly about the government as a whole. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:40:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ACEB36TC: A good friend of mine is a self employed heavy equipment mechanic. He is PROUD of his no emmissions old Mack servi e truck. He bought it for a reason. I wonder when Uncle sugar will make replacement parts unobtainium for ....reasons. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:40:34 AM EDT
[#49]
Then there’s the fact that servicing modern diesel engines require separation of cab from frame…. They just don’t make sense anymore unless you are pulling really heavy loads frequently.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:40:44 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vinyl: The EPA turned diesel engines gay. This |
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