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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:47:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: I’m gonna have to check out that Techron stuff. Didn’t realize I could get it in a bottle. I was thinking I had to buy their gas and it’s pretty expensive. Edit. I don’t use oil treatments, just synthetic oil for oil changes. Decades ago, I worked for an R&D entity that tested every single fuel and oil additive on the market. Techron was deemed to be the only one that did anything useful. I still dump a bottle in my cars occasionally. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:50:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Power Service has always been recommended for 2nd gen Cummins 24v with the VP44 pump. Even though inadequate fuel pressure from the lift pump is primarily the cause of VP44 failure, Power Service allegedly adds necessary lubricity to the fuel, as the fuel cools the VP44. This became particularly important once ULSD came out. Any truth or confirmation to Power Service boosting the fuel’s “lubricity”? I’ve been pouring a couple of glugs into nearly every tank for 20 years of owning the truck.
Thanks. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:53:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Not a diesel thread? Awww.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:55:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Glock63]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VVinci: @Foxtrot08, see my earlier question about anti-foaming content in diesel-rated oils. Is that a concern or not? No production diesel that I know of revs above 4500 or so. I know from experience that if you cross the rpm line where the anti-foaming additives can't keep up, foam formation is just about explosive. It goes from not being there hardly at all to boiling out of every orifice in seconds. WRT to cams, I wonder if you are considering that they are running in an EHL boundary condition? Roller cams run in Hertzian conditions too, but that is a rolling line contact more akin to a ball or roller bearing. The same point on the roller is never in continuous contact. However, on a flat tappet cam (is there still one in production by any first world automaker?) the Hertzian contact is continuous at the convex point on the lifter, with some spreading of the theoretical point contact into an actual patch due to both metal elasticity and the thickness of the lube layer. And there is also some sliding, similar to a hypoid gear, much more than in a roller cam. This implies the need for EP additives. I can't really think of anything else in a modern roller cam engine that would have similar EHL conditions that would require an EP or similar additive in an oil. It would make sense that the automakers eliminated any requirements for such an additive, ie, ZDDP or similar, as a cost save. All that to say, as a powertrain engineer, I can see the thought process that leads to people believing flat tappet cams need a different lube spec. The question for you is whether modern oils have the correct additive package to deal with sliding Hertzian contact in a boundary lubrication situation? I don't know, I'm asking. I suspect a lot of the modern concerns come from the fact that cams rounding off and chewing up lifters is perceived is being more common today than it was in the past. IDK if that is an oil problem, a made-in-China mfg problem, or just perception? The problem with flat tappet cam failures is related primarily to the lifter manufacturing process. I'm finding many do not have a proper crown ground on the face. Also some cams don't have the proper taper ground on the lobe either. Without a proper crown on the lifter amd a taper on the lobe, the lifter will not spin properly in its bore, with predictable results. It's very much real and began about 15 years ago it seems. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:55:24 PM EDT
[#5]
OP,
What do you think about Blackstone Labs Oil Analysis reports? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:57:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glock63: The problem with flat tappet cam failures is related primarily to the lifter manufacturing process. I'm finding many do not have a proper crown ground on the face. Also some cams don't have the proper taper ground on the lobe either. Without a proper crown on the lifter amd a taper on the lobe, the lifter will not spin properly in its bore, with predictable results. It's very much real and began about 15 years ago it seems. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glock63: Originally Posted By VVinci: @Foxtrot08, see my earlier question about anti-foaming content in diesel-rated oils. Is that a concern or not? No production diesel that I know of revs above 4500 or so. I know from experience that if you cross the rpm line where the anti-foaming additives can't keep up, foam formation is just about explosive. It goes from not being there hardly at all to boiling out of every orifice in seconds. WRT to cams, I wonder if you are considering that they are running in an EHL boundary condition? Roller cams run in Hertzian conditions too, but that is a rolling line contact more akin to a ball or roller bearing. The same point on the roller is never in continuous contact. However, on a flat tappet cam (is there still one in production by any first world automaker?) the Hertzian contact is continuous at the convex point on the lifter, with some spreading of the theoretical point contact into an actual patch due to both metal elasticity and the thickness of the lube layer. And there is also some sliding, similar to a hypoid gear, much more than in a roller cam. This implies the need for EP additives. I can't really think of anything else in a modern roller cam engine that would have similar EHL conditions that would require an EP or similar additive in an oil. It would make sense that the automakers eliminated any requirements for such an additive, ie, ZDDP or similar, as a cost save. All that to say, as a powertrain engineer, I can see the thought process that leads to people believing flat tappet cams need a different lube spec. The question for you is whether modern oils have the correct additive package to deal with sliding Hertzian contact in a boundary lubrication situation? I don't know, I'm asking. I suspect a lot of the modern concerns come from the fact that cams rounding off and chewing up lifters is perceived is being more common today than it was in the past. IDK if that is an oil problem, a made-in-China mfg problem, or just perception? The problem with flat tappet cam failures is related primarily to the lifter manufacturing process. I'm finding many do not have a proper crown ground on the face. Also some cams don't have the proper taper ground on the lobe either. Without a proper crown on the lifter amd a taper on the lobe, the lifter will not spin properly in its bore, with predictable results. It's very much real and began about 15 years ago it seems. There’s been significant heat treating issues as well floating around for at least the last 5 years. If not the last decade or more too. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:58:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoctorCAD: OP, What do you think about Blackstone Labs Oil Analysis reports? It’s very basic. But it works well enough to give you an idea. I use predictive maintenance. We also do a lot through Polaris labs and Clark labs. I have a meeting with Clark when I get back to the US. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:59:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AngryNagant: Todd from Project Farm tested some and a few worked a little IIRC. He is one of the best oil analysts on YouTube. 
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:59:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By j-dubya1: Power Service has always been recommended for 2nd gen Cummins 24v with the VP44 pump. Even though inadequate fuel pressure from the lift pump is primarily the cause of VP44 failure, Power Service allegedly adds necessary lubricity to the fuel, as the fuel cools the VP44. This became particularly important once ULSD came out. Any truth or confirmation to Power Service boosting the fuel’s “lubricity”? I’ve been pouring a couple of glugs into nearly every tank for 20 years of owning the truck. Thanks. Yes and no. Sorta covered this with a previous post in this thread. You won’t do any harm using power service. But bio diesel has generally solved the lubricity issue. However it comes with its own issues that fuel additives don’t really treat right now. It also completely depends on the refinery kicking the diesel fuel out. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:07:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VVinci: @Foxtrot08, see my earlier question about anti-foaming content in diesel-rated oils. Is that a concern or not? No production diesel that I know of revs above 4500 or so. I know from experience that if you cross the rpm line where the anti-foaming additives can't keep up, foam formation is just about explosive. It goes from not being there hardly at all to boiling out of every orifice in seconds. WRT to cams, I wonder if you are considering that they are running in an EHL boundary condition? Roller cams run in Hertzian conditions too, but that is a rolling line contact more akin to a ball or roller bearing. The same point on the roller is never in continuous contact. However, on a flat tappet cam (is there still one in production by any first world automaker?) the Hertzian contact is continuous at the convex point on the lifter, with some spreading of the theoretical point contact into an actual patch due to both metal elasticity and the thickness of the lube layer. And there is also some sliding, similar to a hypoid gear, much more than in a roller cam. This implies the need for EP additives. I can't really think of anything else in a modern roller cam engine that would have similar EHL conditions that would require an EP or similar additive in an oil. It would make sense that the automakers eliminated any requirements for such an additive, ie, ZDDP or similar, as a cost save. All that to say, as a powertrain engineer, I can see the thought process that leads to people believing flat tappet cams need a different lube spec. The question for you is whether modern oils have the correct additive package to deal with sliding Hertzian contact in a boundary lubrication situation? I don't know, I'm asking. I suspect a lot of the modern concerns come from the fact that cams rounding off and chewing up lifters is perceived is being more common today than it was in the past. IDK if that is an oil problem, a made-in-China mfg problem, or just perception? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VVinci: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: There are other AW packages, particularly zinc free additive packages. The cam manufacturers are not oil experts. I'm not an expert on cam shapes or geometry. I don't expect them to understand how ZDDP competes with space on engine oil parts, with different base oils and different additives. As, that's what I'm more of an expert in. But, if you absolutely had to follow that. Use a CK4 diesel engine oil, a good CK4 10w30 or if you want to go synthetic, a 5w40 engine oil. They will typically have that 1100-1300ppm out side of Chevron Delo, which maintains a universal oil rating, so is limited to 800. Chevron likes to do alot with Boron as an AW package, which is what they do with the Delo 600 ADF product. However, more indepth it depends a lot on the base oil and it's polarity. How many polar connections bond with the metals. In turn, they compete with the ZDDP package for space on the metal parts. @Foxtrot08, see my earlier question about anti-foaming content in diesel-rated oils. Is that a concern or not? No production diesel that I know of revs above 4500 or so. I know from experience that if you cross the rpm line where the anti-foaming additives can't keep up, foam formation is just about explosive. It goes from not being there hardly at all to boiling out of every orifice in seconds. WRT to cams, I wonder if you are considering that they are running in an EHL boundary condition? Roller cams run in Hertzian conditions too, but that is a rolling line contact more akin to a ball or roller bearing. The same point on the roller is never in continuous contact. However, on a flat tappet cam (is there still one in production by any first world automaker?) the Hertzian contact is continuous at the convex point on the lifter, with some spreading of the theoretical point contact into an actual patch due to both metal elasticity and the thickness of the lube layer. And there is also some sliding, similar to a hypoid gear, much more than in a roller cam. This implies the need for EP additives. I can't really think of anything else in a modern roller cam engine that would have similar EHL conditions that would require an EP or similar additive in an oil. It would make sense that the automakers eliminated any requirements for such an additive, ie, ZDDP or similar, as a cost save. All that to say, as a powertrain engineer, I can see the thought process that leads to people believing flat tappet cams need a different lube spec. The question for you is whether modern oils have the correct additive package to deal with sliding Hertzian contact in a boundary lubrication situation? I don't know, I'm asking. I suspect a lot of the modern concerns come from the fact that cams rounding off and chewing up lifters is perceived is being more common today than it was in the past. IDK if that is an oil problem, a made-in-China mfg problem, or just perception? I think it’s more of a manufacturing problem right now than an oil issue. Now I will say, certain diesel engine oils (Rotella) have a bigger issue with foaming than others. But for the most part, that’s addressed in diesel engine formulation. Diesel engines have their own set of foaming issues, but due to sump sizes it’s mostly contained because you have so much oil to let it settle. That being said, Euro diesel engine oils are very keen on the foaming issues. So if you’re looking for the “get both” answer it’s definitely in the Euro packages. To me, with flat tappets I’m more keen on the HTHS capacity of the oil. Keep up that thicker film boundary would be important to me. More so than being overly reliant on ZDDP. Especially when there’s boron, moly and other anti wear additives that do essentially the same thing. And you have modern base oils that can also help such as AN’s and esters. But I do think generally, the finishing has gone down hill on parts such as this. We’ve seen a rash of just flat manufacturing issues in the last 5 years as manufacturers try to cut corners. From heat treatment to finishing. So my main concern is the initial QA/manufacturing process. Then there’s always the concern of tier 1 chinesium steel being used all over the place. So if you don’t start with a good steel, you will get a bad product no matter what. I’ll look more into what you’re saying tomorrow as I’m half awake right now after running a 10km earlier. So this is response 1. When I get to my office tomorrow I’ll respond more in-depth. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:15:18 PM EDT
[#11]
What are your thoughts on liqui-moly molygen? I have two turbo cars (flex tuned WRX and chevy cruze) and one NA car (subaru crosstrek) that are currently running it.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:16:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: I think it’s more of a manufacturing problem right now than an oil issue. Now I will say, certain diesel engine oils (Rotella) have a bigger issue with foaming than others. But for the most part, that’s addressed in diesel engine formulation. Diesel engines have their own set of foaming issues, but due to sump sizes it’s mostly contained because you have so much oil to let it settle. That being said, Euro diesel engine oils are very keen on the foaming issues. So if you’re looking for the “get both” answer it’s definitely in the Euro packages. To me, with flat tappets I’m more keen on the HTHS capacity of the oil. Keep up that thicker film boundary would be important to me. More so than being overly reliant on ZDDP. Especially when there’s boron, moly and other anti wear additives that do essentially the same thing. And you have modern base oils that can also help such as AN’s and esters. But I do think generally, the finishing has gone down hill on parts such as this. We’ve seen a rash of just flat manufacturing issues in the last 5 years as manufacturers try to cut corners. From heat treatment to finishing. So my main concern is the initial QA/manufacturing process. Then there’s always the concern of tier 1 chinesium steel being used all over the place. So if you don’t start with a good steel, you will get a bad product no matter what. I’ll look more into what you’re saying tomorrow as I’m half awake right now after running a 10km earlier. So this is response 1. When I get to my office tomorrow I’ll respond more in-depth. Appreciate it! Great thread as well, BTW. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:27:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kersty52: Thanks for the thread OP. Reminds me of when I worked at the Co-Op. had an old farmer with a V-8 Cadillac(northstar?). He would either put in 15w-40 and some god awful thick yellowish orange additive or forgo it on the next and have us use straight 30. Kinda wonder how that went with all the modern oil systems lol I saw a guy insist that an oil change tech only add 5 quarts of oil to his Northstar Caddy(it's an 8ish quart engine) once. They made him sign a waiver that the shop wasn't responsible for any damage, and did it. Tech parked the car. Customer popped the hood and topped the oil off with 3 quarts of vegetable oil-yes, the kind for deep fryers. People get some stupid ideas. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:41:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: manchu39]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JamPo: When you say “don’t use sea foam”, as an oil additive or does this include as a fuel additive as well? I am interested in the answer to this as well. ETA: Thank you OP! |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:24:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Alright... I'm actually going to make an oil thread on GD for this one. Don't add anything to your engine oil. Seriously. Just fucking don't. It's all various levels of bad. Don't use MMO, don't use seafoam, don't use ZDDP additives, don't use super nano friction reducer. Just don't use it. You're going to do more harm than good. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:02:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Rifleman_556]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NarcedDiver: Thoughts on Archoil AR9100. I don't know shit about oil, but if I don't use this stuff every oil change my Ford 6.0 will have a cold engine miss like crazy from injector issues. It was recommended to me by an engine shop and it literally fixed (masked) the issue for several years now. I'm curious as to the science behind it honestly. It's the only "mechanic in a bottle" that has ever worked for me. We've had 3 different 6.0s and I've worked on quite a few others. AR9100 is legit. My first 6.0 had bad, bad stiction to the point it would set the CEL (and NOTHING sets the CEL on that truck) AR9100 in the oil and Hot Shot's EDT in the fuel made that truck run flawless for 2 years until a lifter grenaded and trashed the LPOP and 3 injectors (no CEL though  ) I've tried Howe's, Power Service, Hot Shot's, MMO, and ATF as fuel additives, seen trucks run noticeably smoother and improved fuel mileage with ATF and Howe's. As far as antigel goes: 8-10 pickups pulling generators drove into a mid-October blizzard somewhere in Illinois. We were all still running fuel from the VA/TN line. I had fresh fuel filters and treated my fuel with a bottle of Hot Shot's antigel that my buddy who drives OTR gave me, everybody else had Power Service or Howe's antigel. I was the only truck that didn't gel up Oil brands: All 3 trucks liked Rotella T5, but hated T6 Mobil 1 seemed about equal to Royal Purple Amsoil and Fram were shit Oddly enough Providence (Rural King brand) has been the best next to Rotella T5 No degrees to back this up, just my 2 cents based on seat of the pants testing and experience, do what you will with it |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:05:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hbilly: Is that like awl?  I think it be earl... |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 2:09:58 AM EDT
[#18]
No additives in oil. Maybe 10 years ago I did use Seafoam for a 20 minute cleaner in my 99 Ford with 180,000 miles. Then dropped the oil and put in fresh oil.
The only diesel additive I have any experience with is HotShot anti gel. I had to use a higher concentration than listed but my fuel did not gel this winter when we had -18f mornings and a solid week below zero. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:29:18 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Yes. I mean the biggest issue with any Rotella is that it foams. Foaming leads to oxidation. Oxidation leads to varnish and also shearing. You can go back now close to 2 decades of posting I’ve done on here and see that I’ve said that same exact thing. He did a video at HPL’s lab a few weeks ago. Also the guy who owns HPL is legit. Nice guy. Went out of his way to visit me even though we don’t directly do business. What specifically do you recommend as an alternative to Rotella for light and medium duty diesels? Something that doesn’t foam would be a plus |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:34:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moto-M187: What are your thoughts on liqui-moly molygen? I have two turbo cars (flex tuned WRX and chevy cruze) and one NA car (subaru crosstrek) that are currently running it. Everything ive read about it, it’s fine. Meets spec. It’s a full synthetic, considering it’s of German origin it should be a PAO based product, or some combination of PAO/esters and probably group 3s. At $10-12 a quart, you’re getting dangerously close to redline pricing in my opinion. But there’s nothing wrong with it. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:36:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: NOT an EV thread.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: Originally Posted By beitodesstrafe: OIL THREAD!  Therefore it's better |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:50:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: What specifically do you recommend as an alternative to Rotella for light and medium duty diesels? Something that doesn’t foam would be a plus Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Yes. I mean the biggest issue with any Rotella is that it foams. Foaming leads to oxidation. Oxidation leads to varnish and also shearing. You can go back now close to 2 decades of posting I’ve done on here and see that I’ve said that same exact thing. He did a video at HPL’s lab a few weeks ago. Also the guy who owns HPL is legit. Nice guy. Went out of his way to visit me even though we don’t directly do business. What specifically do you recommend as an alternative to Rotella for light and medium duty diesels? Something that doesn’t foam would be a plus Citgo Citguard 700 off the top of my head is what I would use, looking for something off the shelf. After that, Chevron Dell SDE 400. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:52:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Well since you made your own oil thread I don’t mind asking this, about to change the oil in a ‘98 ski boat with a 5.7 Chevy with 500 hours. Dino? Synthetic? You favorite rotella t6? Thanks,
@Foxtrot08 |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:01:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Foxtrot08]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mallard270: Well since you made your own oil thread I don’t mind asking this, about to change the oil in a ‘98 ski boat with a 5.7 Chevy with 500 hours. Dino? Synthetic? You favorite rotella t6? Thanks, @Foxtrot08 Full synthetic 5w30 or 10w30. Pick your favorite brand / flavor. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:13:36 AM EDT
[#25]
@Foxtrot08
It is great having a SME on the varied topics we discuss on arfcom. I ordered a 6-pack of Techron on your recommendation last night as I had been putting an appropriate amount of Sea Foam in the gas tank every time I change the oil in my vehicles. Just in case it gets overlooked... Thanks |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:20:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: castlebravo84]
[#26]
Most interesting thing to me in that video is that switching to a new oil can cause issues when the residual oil that you weren't able to drain is incompatible with the new oil you put in. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to run a shorter change interval if you didn't put the same oil in as you drained out. This is kinda relevant to me because I just drained Mobile 1 0W40 Euro and replaced it with Redline 0W20 in my 340i.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:23:46 AM EDT
[#27]
How often should I change the oil in my 14 4.0l Toyota Tacoma? I use Mobil 1 full synthetic and that high-end gold fram filter that is apparently decent.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:25:55 AM EDT
[#28]
@Foxtrot08 he’s the reason I changed from Amsoil SS to Redline Euro in my tuned Ecoboost as well. He talks I listen.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:33:24 AM EDT
[#29]
Didn’t know Lake had his own channel. He’s been a regular guest speaker on PCA tech presentations for awhile now.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:42:41 AM EDT
[#30]
I drive a 2013 Chevy Silverado Z71 with 5.3l.
185,000 miles on it now. What would changing to Redline 5w-30 gain me over the Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 I’m using now? |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:44:33 AM EDT
[#31]
* sigh *
Oil additives become fuel additives in my car. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:51:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Full synthetic 5w30 or 10w30. Pick your favorite brand / flavor. Thanks! Looks like waiting to dewinterize this year paid off. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:55:56 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moto-M187: What are your thoughts on liqui-moly molygen? I have two turbo cars (flex tuned WRX and chevy cruze) and one NA car (subaru crosstrek) that are currently running it. I've been using Liqui Moly for years now, in my Audi, VW, BMW and family member using it in Porsche, and more Audi and VWs. In between us that is 6 TFSI 2.0 turbo 4's, all direct injected. the 2.0s for a while had issues with the flap in the intake runner failing. On the A3 Audi and the GTI's there was minimal carbon buildup on the valves @ over 100k miles. This is a sample size of 2, but with various cars and oil types, and have had no issues esp with direct injection. One of the GTI's had it's valves cleaned @ over 100k (intake was already off to get a water pump replaced) but it wasn't throwing a code or anything. I'm a fan |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:04:46 AM EDT
[#34]
I’ve just purchased a wave runner and it calls for a special marine oil because of higher revs (casually cruising at 5k) in a marine environment
Is there a big difference with auto oils? If so, what? |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:25:11 AM EDT
[#35]
I just serviced my old John Deere 125 Automatic and wanted to run some fuel additive to help clean her out. Is that ok?
It did get Mobil 1 synthetic 10-30 for the oil |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:31:19 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Your main concern with those older engines is going to be fuel dilution from blow by. Turbo or not, simply put they’re older engines. They’re going to have some wear. They’ll keep trucking. But that will kill the oil’s viscosity which will lead to damage well before any lack of ZDDP does. Diesel engine oils typically can handle fuel dilution better. This is also why I run a “euro” engine oil with diesel ratings, on a 500hp tuned Eco boost and x2 5.0 Mustangs (2019 and 2024 - literally a week old) It’s not so much the ZDDP I’m worried about over all. It’s the robustness of the oil to hand fuel. Typically called TBN, but there’s other ways to combat fuel acids than TBN now a days. @Foxtrot08 I'm interested about your recommendation for a motor oil that will be used in a high RPM gas engine that can handle fuel in the oil well. I've got a fresh LS2 with a Comp Xtreme Energy cam in it that has a very aggressive lobe ramp profile. The engine builder recommended Schaeffer's Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus 15W-40 for initial break-in, but the engine was pretty noisy when cold when I was running that. After 3,000 miles, I switched to Mobil1 0w40 Euro and that quieted it up quite a bit, but I'm concerned the M1 may not have enough zinc/phosphorus in it for this engine. Would you recommend the Red Line 11124 0W40 Motor Oil for this engine? Does it deal with fuel dilution well? |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:33:23 AM EDT
[#37]
I’m a smooth brain, so forgive me.
What about fuel injector cleaner? Just snake oil? I throw a bottle in about twice a year of either Techron or STP. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:37:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gtdhw: Almost 20 years of using ZDDP additive in the same engines (hyd. flat tappet) that get the absolute shit beat out of them, yet still function perfectly (with no rebuilds), says I will continue to do so. Off the shelf available everywhere and zero ill side effects. If it's wrong, I just will stay wrong, as the results are excellent. I love GD.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:44:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: The problem with Naptha / mineral spirits / etc is simply the fact they're not detergents. They're solvents. They're going into a solvent that is a like solvent. So you simply have too much dilution. Detergents have polar ends. Which will grab and soften varnish up. Which means it then can be dispersed in the solvents (gasoline.) Really ethanol is a fantastic cleaner as well. So with premium fuel, you don't need to add too much to it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Originally Posted By jmiddy: Hey Foxtrot08 Seafoam must clean injectors etc. added to fuel. is Seafoam not just white gas or Naptha. What I found a true story by the way, rebuilding from scratch a 2003 5.3LS tried everything to degrease and clean carbon off of everything. Parts cleaner was no good regardless of what kind all it did was get rid of the oil did not clean, left dirt in the castings etc. Tried seafoam and shit it cleaned carbon deposits way better than a parts cleaner. Found out its white gas mostly, well, well Sea Foam is kind of expensive in a small bottle, so bought Colemans fuel in a gallon can and shit best damn cleaner i have used to clean heads, valves and the block etc. So it has to do its job in cleaning the fuel system right? The problem with Naptha / mineral spirits / etc is simply the fact they're not detergents. They're solvents. They're going into a solvent that is a like solvent. So you simply have too much dilution. Detergents have polar ends. Which will grab and soften varnish up. Which means it then can be dispersed in the solvents (gasoline.) Really ethanol is a fantastic cleaner as well. So with premium fuel, you don't need to add too much to it. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:53:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tactical_Jew]
[#40]
Many moons ago, I had a jeep Cherokee 4.0 with a rough idle. Jethro down the road said “he could fix it” took the air filter off and slowly poured a PBR down it while jockeying the throttle. Damn thing ran like a sewing machine after.
The beer smoothed out the idle and the jeep kept on running until I gave it to some kid who just got out of the army and it’s still running. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:00:58 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Many moons ago, I had a jeep Cherokee 4.0 with a rough idle. Jethro down the road said “he could fix it” took the air filter off and slowly poured a PBR down it while jockeying the throttle. Damn thing ran like a sewing machine after. The beer smoothed out the idle and the jeep kept on running until I gave it to some kid who just got out of the army and it’s still running. Science! So is Techron just repackaged PBR, or is PBR repackaged Techron  |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:06:00 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kingfish: I've just purchased a wave runner and it calls for a special marine oil because of higher revs (casually cruising at 5k) in a marine environment Is there a big difference with auto oils? If so, what? |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:08:03 AM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:10:29 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Is that really a problem when that's exactly what I use them for? (Thinning varnish out of neglected carburetors that I don't feel like dipping) Seafoam, or Berryman when I want something more volatile. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Originally Posted By jmiddy: Hey Foxtrot08 Seafoam must clean injectors etc. added to fuel. is Seafoam not just white gas or Naptha. What I found a true story by the way, rebuilding from scratch a 2003 5.3LS tried everything to degrease and clean carbon off of everything. Parts cleaner was no good regardless of what kind all it did was get rid of the oil did not clean, left dirt in the castings etc. Tried seafoam and shit it cleaned carbon deposits way better than a parts cleaner. Found out its white gas mostly, well, well Sea Foam is kind of expensive in a small bottle, so bought Colemans fuel in a gallon can and shit best damn cleaner i have used to clean heads, valves and the block etc. So it has to do its job in cleaning the fuel system right? The problem with Naptha / mineral spirits / etc is simply the fact they're not detergents. They're solvents. They're going into a solvent that is a like solvent. So you simply have too much dilution. Detergents have polar ends. Which will grab and soften varnish up. Which means it then can be dispersed in the solvents (gasoline.) Really ethanol is a fantastic cleaner as well. So with premium fuel, you don't need to add too much to it. Are you pouring it right into the carb, or are you dumping a quart into a 30 gallon gas tank, then topping back off at 1/4 to half tank? And then again… and again… and again? Simply put, you’re diluting it down too much to make a damn bit of difference. And there’s so many tests out there that have shown amines work. Other stuff doesn’t. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:13:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mad_Anthony: @Foxtrot08 I'm interested about your recommendation for a motor oil that will be used in a high RPM gas engine that can handle fuel in the oil well. I've got a fresh LS2 with a Comp Xtreme Energy cam in it that has a very aggressive lobe ramp profile. The engine builder recommended Schaeffer's Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus 15W-40 for initial break-in, but the engine was pretty noisy when cold when I was running that. After 3,000 miles, I switched to Mobil1 0w40 Euro and that quieted it up quite a bit, but I'm concerned the M1 may not have enough zinc/phosphorus in it for this engine. Would you recommend the Red Line 11124 0W40 Motor Oil for this engine? Does it deal with fuel dilution well? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mad_Anthony: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Your main concern with those older engines is going to be fuel dilution from blow by. Turbo or not, simply put they’re older engines. They’re going to have some wear. They’ll keep trucking. But that will kill the oil’s viscosity which will lead to damage well before any lack of ZDDP does. Diesel engine oils typically can handle fuel dilution better. This is also why I run a “euro” engine oil with diesel ratings, on a 500hp tuned Eco boost and x2 5.0 Mustangs (2019 and 2024 - literally a week old) It’s not so much the ZDDP I’m worried about over all. It’s the robustness of the oil to hand fuel. Typically called TBN, but there’s other ways to combat fuel acids than TBN now a days. @Foxtrot08 I'm interested about your recommendation for a motor oil that will be used in a high RPM gas engine that can handle fuel in the oil well. I've got a fresh LS2 with a Comp Xtreme Energy cam in it that has a very aggressive lobe ramp profile. The engine builder recommended Schaeffer's Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus 15W-40 for initial break-in, but the engine was pretty noisy when cold when I was running that. After 3,000 miles, I switched to Mobil1 0w40 Euro and that quieted it up quite a bit, but I'm concerned the M1 may not have enough zinc/phosphorus in it for this engine. Would you recommend the Red Line 11124 0W40 Motor Oil for this engine? Does it deal with fuel dilution well? 0w40’s will have (most of the time) up to 1200ppm ZDDP. As I’ve already covered though, there are other AW packages in oil. Which is how and why Chevron makes the 600 ADF oil. That being said, Mobil 1 0w40 is a very stout oil. I do like the redline products more in general, even though they’re very expensive. The base oil blends in redline are basically bomb proof. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:14:44 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kingfish: I’ve just purchased a wave runner and it calls for a special marine oil because of higher revs (casually cruising at 5k) in a marine environment Is there a big difference with auto oils? If so, what? Two stroke or four stroke? First question. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:19:50 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slater2111: @Foxtrot08 he’s the reason I changed from Amsoil SS to Redline Euro in my tuned Ecoboost as well. He talks I listen. Raises a couple questions from me... Audi S4 with the 3L supercharged motor, mild tune. I don't flog it hard regularly but it gets a sensible workout. Have been running Kirkland's full syn 5-30. Only sees ~5k miles a year, worth switching to RL Euro? E46 M3 straight 6, I drive it like an asshole  calls for 10-60, have been using Liqui Moly, any change recommendation there?Thanks! |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:21:50 AM EDT
[#48]
Why isn't everyone using 2197 ?
I'll gbpswe |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:31:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Any opinion on Pennzoil Platinum, 5W30? Or Ultra Platinum?
I'm tracking for 45 to 50k a year on my 2023 F-150 5.0., mostly highway miles. I try to keep my vehicles for 5 years, and am really enjoying this truck. So longevity is my main concern. I've had good luck coupon stacking on it the PZ Platinum, and my wife's Navigator also takes it. Redline might just be too expensive, unless there is a case for higher mileage on the motor. Open to others. The info in the video about different make oil formulas having negative interactions even without additives got my attention Thanks!. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:36:33 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Yes. I mean the biggest issue with any Rotella is that it foams. Foaming leads to oxidation. Oxidation leads to varnish and also shearing. You can go back now close to 2 decades of posting I've done on here and see that I've said that same exact thing. He did a video at HPL's lab a few weeks ago. Also the guy who owns HPL is legit. Nice guy. Went out of his way to visit me even though we don't directly do business. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Originally Posted By alphabavo: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Nah. Something like that it's fine. You're doing fine. I don't like Rotella, but if it's easy for you to get cool. Might just change to a 10w30 is all. As those old straight weights are getting harder to find. Does that include T6? Yes. I mean the biggest issue with any Rotella is that it foams. Foaming leads to oxidation. Oxidation leads to varnish and also shearing. You can go back now close to 2 decades of posting I've done on here and see that I've said that same exact thing. He did a video at HPL's lab a few weeks ago. Also the guy who owns HPL is legit. Nice guy. Went out of his way to visit me even though we don't directly do business. Rotella has a long standing reputation for excessive shearing leading to bearing failure in the Subaru community, but this helps explain why. |
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