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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:18:47 PM EDT
 Officer Fires Gun Through Windshield in Wild Police Shootout With Suspect Curious what GDs thoughts are of this shooting. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:26:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NCPatrolAR]
[#1]
1. everyone wants to shoot through the windshield.
2. You can tell my man isnt exposed to much stress. 3. You can tell they dont actually drill tactics 4. Looks like he doesnt spend a lot of time handling the rifle |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:28:09 PM EDT
[#2]
This is GD - they're going to tell you the cop is evil and incompetent.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:32:36 PM EDT
[#3]
What is the problem?
The guy was shooting and the cop returned fire, he even got hits on the guy. The only thing I noticed is dumbasses not getting off the radio so he could tell them where the guy ran. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:33:08 PM EDT
[#4]
they’re all busy with their friday night cops thread.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:37:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Smart move and had the sense to get out of pistol range .
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:39:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cranberry1: Smart move and had the sense to get out of pistol range . It was dumb driving past the suspect. He should have backed up instead |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:40:34 PM EDT
[#7]
I'd be pissed if it was my wife and kids in the minivan
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:46:11 PM EDT
[#8]
No real consideration to background.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:48:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: It was dumb driving past the suspect. He should have backed up instead Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By cranberry1: Smart move and had the sense to get out of pistol range . It was dumb driving past the suspect. He should have backed up instead Agreed should have backed up . |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:50:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: It was dumb driving past the suspect. He should have backed up instead Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By cranberry1: Smart move and had the sense to get out of pistol range . It was dumb driving past the suspect. He should have backed up instead He had a gun in his hand, I say he did good. He pushed through the ambush. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:56:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NCPatrolAR]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pr24guy: He had a gun in his hand, I say he did good. He pushed through the ambush. There was no need to drive past the suspect. The suspect was forward of him and the smart move would be to back up, which creates distance and possibly allows the officer to keep some sight on the suspect. Additionally the officer could stop and position his car for some degree of cover. By driving past the guy, the officer is exposing himself more to incoming rounds, closes the distance with the suspect (which evens the playing field skill wise), looses sight of the suspect completely and now exposes to the people in the black vehicle to danger by using them for cover/concealment. And....if he wanted to drive past the suspect, he should be focused on driving the car; not trying to drive and shoot at the same time. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:20:21 PM EDT
[#12]
That looked like a shitshow to me. Taking cover behind an occupied civilian vehicle seemed like a weird choice when he could have just moved up his car. It's hard to tell from the footage but the rifle rounds looked like there was no backstop and a road with lots of traffic.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:28:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: heavily_armed]
[#13]
About :42 he's putting rounds down where a semi passes. Not well aimed either.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:33:40 PM EDT
[#14]
I kinda had to laugh when he said "I'm behind cover!:
I thought to myself, "Dude...you ARE cover." |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:35:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Needs more cardio, less doughnut.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:49:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pallas]
[#16]
Shooting through a windshield isn’t an issue. Other than needing to do some cardio, his cover at the truck sucked, a few other minor things. Nobody is perfect. He’s alive, so he won.
That Chicago jail gunfight is holy shit. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 12:52:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pallas: Shooting through a windshield isn’t an issue. Other than needing to do some cardio, his cover at the truck sucked, a few other minor things. Nobody is perfect. He’s alive, so he won. That Chicago jail gunfight is holy shit. I missed that. Link? |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 1:08:12 AM EDT
[#18]
Man that guy is in absolutely horrible shape. Out of breath before he even got out of the car.
The shooting was not great. Not too horrible either. I say put him on half rations and he can stay on the force. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 1:12:43 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SkilletsUSMC: I missed that. Link? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SkilletsUSMC: Originally Posted By Pallas: Shooting through a windshield isn’t an issue. Other than needing to do some cardio, his cover at the truck sucked, a few other minor things. Nobody is perfect. He’s alive, so he won. That Chicago jail gunfight is holy shit. I missed that. Link?  Bodycam Shows Intense Shootout Between Chicago Police And Carjacking Suspect |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 1:28:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Greenfeet: I'd be pissed if it was my wife and kids in the minivan Bingo! Using innocent bystanders as concealment. WTH? |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 2:07:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryThat's crazy. Is there a thread on this? |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 2:54:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: That's crazy. Is there a thread on this? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: That's crazy. Is there a thread on this? Pretty sure we had several back when it happened. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 3:04:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: That looked like a shitshow to me. Taking cover behind an occupied civilian vehicle seemed like a weird choice when he could have just moved up his car. It's hard to tell from the footage but the rifle rounds looked like there was no backstop and a road with lots of traffic. This. That looked like rifle rounds going straight down a flat road, those likely hit houses and cars, hopefully no bystanders. Overall not great, not horrible. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 3:28:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Well it wasn’t pretty, tactics were deficient…yet it was sufficient.
Initial contact was basically an ambush situation, so returning fire thru the windshield makes sense. Hell he got hits on target, so it worked. There were other people around, but you cannot expect him to sit there soaking up rounds without shooting back either. It ain’t Hollywood. Driving past the guy makes no sense, if you are gonna do that just run the fucker over instead…. Likely just one of those things that happens when someone is just totally overwhelmed with a situation, and has no answer for why they did it. It happens sometimes, only lots and lots of serious experience will help alleviate it, if you survive long enough. He may not have realized the van was occupied when he used it for cover, it is pretty natural to just go to what looks useful. Realizing it was a car he saw earlier may not have even clicked in his brain at that point. He eventually did tell them to get the hell out of there, so he was fixing problems and mistakes at least. Yeah, needs to have more training on the rifle. And cardio. I didn’t watch all the rest of it, so no comment, looked like a typical cluster. Anyhow- like I said, it got the job done. I have seen all kinds of crazy shit when things go sideways with someone who hasn’t been in that many stressful situations. I once got in a serious crash, and used a radio code that we never use to call it in- no idea why, other than my brain just got slammed into the roof…. All in all, got the job done, with plenty of room for training discussions later. Give him a medal, and make sure in-service training focuses in survival skills instead of touchy feely stuff if they want to improve things for next time… |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 3:34:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HillaryClinton: This. That looked like rifle rounds going straight down a flat road, those likely hit houses and cars, hopefully no bystanders. Overall not great, not horrible. I could not quite see where exactly he was shooting or where the suspect was right then. In general, a lot of rifle rounds are SAFER to shoot in urban areas than handgun rounds, depending on the bullet construction- 1-Less likely to miss, 2-Less rounds fired as a result of the above, 3-More likely to frag on impact with a tree/asphalt/etc if you do miss than a handgun bullet. Basically- If you are gonna be shooting- bring the rifle. Safer for everyone if you fire a couple and get good hits, versus dumping a mag of 9mm all over the place… |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 3:41:50 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tac556: Driving past the guy makes no sense, if you are gonna do that just run the fucker over instead…. Likely just one of those things that happens when someone is just totally overwhelmed with a situation, and has no answer for why they did it. It happens sometimes, only lots and lots of serious experience will help alleviate it, if you survive long enough. Sequence as I saw it 1. Pursuit 2. Perp stops, exits vehicle and opens fire. 3. Cop stops and returns fire 4. Suspect flees (and you can't see from the camera where or what he is doing, but the cop might) 5. Cop pulls forward slowly (maintaining contact / pursuit) 6. Cop accelerates through the engagement area (breaks contact) 7. Cop gets out of car from distance and engages with a rifle. #1 to 5 make sense to me. #6 is questionable, but the perspective from the camera is very limited. I assume he saw something that looked unsafe and decided he needed more space and a different place to park to more safely inmate the foot pursuit. NO ONE thinks this cop has ever run or even walked an extra 100 yards when he didn't need to. So I assume he had a good reason for parking so far away. 
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Posted: 5/4/2024 3:49:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Sequence as I saw it 1. Pursuit 2. Perp stops, exits vehicle and opens fire. 3. Cop stops and returns fire 4. Suspect flees (and you can't see from the camera where or what he is doing, but the cop might) 5. Cop pulls forward slowly (maintaining contact / pursuit) 6. Cop accelerates through the engagement area (breaks contact) 7. Cop gets out of car from distance and engages with a rifle. #1 to 5 make sense to me. #6 is questionable, but the perspective from the camera is very limited. I assume he saw something that looked unsafe and decided he needed more space and a different place to park to more safely inmate the foot pursuit. NO ONE thinks this cop has ever run or even walked an extra 100 yards when he didn't need to. So I assume he had a good reason for parking so far away. 6 and 7 makes sense to me, but im not a cop. He bought time to get his rifle. 7 for sure makes sense. If I have a rifle, I can afford more distance. More distance, means a less chance of getting hit. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 3:57:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Sequence as I saw it 1. Pursuit 2. Perp stops, exits vehicle and opens fire. 3. Cop stops and returns fire 4. Suspect flees (and you can't see from the camera where or what he is doing, but the cop might) 5. Cop pulls forward slowly (maintaining contact / pursuit) 6. Cop accelerates through the engagement area (breaks contact) 7. Cop gets out of car from distance and engages with a rifle. #1 to 5 make sense to me. #6 is questionable, but the perspective from the camera is very limited. I assume he saw something that looked unsafe and decided he needed more space and a different place to park to more safely inmate the foot pursuit. NO ONE thinks this cop has ever run or even walked an extra 100 yards when he didn't need to. So I assume he had a good reason for parking so far away. Ha ha- agreed! Poor guy has it immortalized online forever now…. I don’t see any advantage to driving forward slowly to try to keep an eye on someone who you just exchanged fire with. Car isn’t a piece of actual armor. I think most people would have bailed out, angled the car and bailed out, or reversed out. Closing the gap to a suspect, while stuck driving, is not ideal. But once committed, he did exit the kill zone at least. Just no reason to get deeper into it to begin with. Tactical mistakes happen, frequently. Like I said, he may not even know why he did it, or it just happened. Hell he might have started rolling forward because his foot came off the brake and he just decided to go with it. Or like you said- he is just in the habit of always driving the full distance. Personally I liked to park a long ways away from any call and approach on foot, helps when things are not as called in (like a nice suicide by police attempt or whatever). |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 5:32:44 AM EDT
[#29]
“Send me everybody you got!” is pretty metal.
Those rifle rounds? Idk, did he hit his target at all? |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 5:55:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tac556: Ha ha- agreed! Poor guy has it immortalized online forever now…. I don’t see any advantage to driving forward slowly to try to keep an eye on someone who you just exchanged fire with. Car isn’t a piece of actual armor. I think most people would have bailed out, angled the car and bailed out, or reversed out. Closing the gap to a suspect, while stuck driving, is not ideal. But once committed, he did exit the kill zone at least. Just no reason to get deeper into it to begin with. Tactical mistakes happen, frequently. Like I said, he may not even know why he did it, or it just happened. Hell he might have started rolling forward because his foot came off the brake and he just decided to go with it. Or like you said- he is just in the habit of always driving the full distance. Personally I liked to park a long ways away from any call and approach on foot, helps when things are not as called in (like a nice suicide by police attempt or whatever). I'm not an officer, but I watch a lot of cops and oplive. I get turning off lights and sirens and walking in to vague call. What do you do if you need the rifle from the car, and its 50 yards away. Serious question as I dont know. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 6:02:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hobs98: I'm not an officer, but I watch a lot of cops and oplive. I get turning off lights and sirens and walking in to vague call. What do you do if you need the rifle from the car, and its 50 yards away. Serious question as I dont know. You either run back and get it or work without it |
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ITA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 6:06:42 AM EDT
[#32]
Not a LEO but I think he should have backed up and not take cover behind a car with civilians inside but I guess the stress and tinted windows didn’t help taking the best decision
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Posted: 5/4/2024 6:08:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Another question
Where is his pistol? Did he reload it at any point? |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 6:10:26 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: You either run back and get it or work without it Makes since, I've had a permit since we could get one. Took a lot of courses. Kind of a dance to the song they play deal. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 6:11:22 AM EDT
[#35]
Did he take cover behind an occupied vehicle?
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Posted: 5/4/2024 6:13:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Another question Where is his pistol? Did he reload it at any point? Watching it for the 10th time, I think he laid it on the seat to unlock the rifle. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 6:14:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jsnappa]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Radio_Free_ARFCOM: Did he take cover behind an occupied vehicle? He may not have realized it was occupied at first. He moves off to the tree and tells them to get gone. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 6:39:08 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jsnappa: He may not have realized it was occupied at first. He moves off to the tree and tells them to get gone. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 6:42:53 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By huck: No real consideration to background. There doesn't have to be. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 7:37:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Luigi man. He’s steppin all over the line
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:08:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pallas]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frens: Not a LEO but I think he should have backed up and not take cover behind a car with civilians inside but I guess the stress and tinted windows didn’t help taking the best decision If you really want to get technical, he should have cleared the van, he doesn't know who is in it or what their intentions are, but he's only one guy. As a LEO, he shouldn't have used an occupied van as cover, but he was in the moment, realized it, and moved to the tree. Also, he had the presence to tell them to beat it. I can say, without a doubt, that if I was driving that van, homeboy would have been without cover pretty quick, if I would have even still been sitting there* (which I likely wouldn't have been.) *but, you see blue lights, you see a cop, a lot of people freeze up. I thought he did pretty good considering most LEA's don't give a whole lot of training and it usually isn't all that great. At least the guys was breathing, I've seen (and done it myself) people get in the moment and stop breathing. lol. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:17:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jwnc]
[#42]
Not to hijack, but I never saw the jail shooting one before. How the heck did he get out of cuffs and get a weapon?
Edit: https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/newly-released-video-shows-harrowing-gun-battle-outside-chicago-police-station/2830439/ Edit: Report - most cop issues were body cam related, not searching (obviously) and not loading weapons properly. https://www.chicagocopa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/2020-0003466_FSR.pdf Also notice that (from the net): "Jordan faces six counts of attempted murder, two counts of possession of a controlled substance, one count of being an armed habitual criminal, one count of unlawful use of a weapon, possession of stolen vehicle and two misdemeanor counts of resisting arrest, according to police and Cook County prosecutors." But in the end: "The sentence was handed down Monday after Lovelle Jordan, 27, pleaded guilty to attempted murder and aggravated battery against a police officer." They dropped possession of a firearm by a felon and discharging. No illegal carrying. In Chicago. Even with a decade of felonies and shooting at cops, he was still a protected class when it came to dropping all firearms violations. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:49:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: kc-coyote]
[#43]
Quote HistoryI couldn't find out - searched via ARFCOM search and google with ar15.com - i'll create a thread on this as it was one heck of a shootout right in front of the police station |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 12:44:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hobs98: Watching it for the 10th time, I think he laid it on the seat to unlock the rifle. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hobs98: Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Another question Where is his pistol? Did he reload it at any point? Watching it for the 10th time, I think he laid it on the seat to unlock the rifle. Yikes |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 12:53:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tangotag: Needs more cardio, less doughnut. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 1:00:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tangotag: Needs more cardio, less doughnut. Bro was winded and wheezing from a 50 yard shuffle 😆 |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 1:23:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cranberry1: Smart move and had the sense to get out of pistol range . So nice of him to put a car full of people between him and the suspect, and then open up with an AR with that car full of people in the middle. Then he made that car full of people a target for the suspect by hiding behind it. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 1:41:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwnc: Not to hijack, but I never saw the jail shooting one before. How the heck did he get out of cuffs and get a weapon? Edit: https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/newly-released-video-shows-harrowing-gun-battle-outside-chicago-police-station/2830439/ Edit: Report - most cop issues were body cam related, not searching (obviously) and not loading weapons properly. https://www.chicagocopa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/2020-0003466_FSR.pdf Also notice that (from the net): "Jordan faces six counts of attempted murder, two counts of possession of a controlled substance, one count of being an armed habitual criminal, one count of unlawful use of a weapon, possession of stolen vehicle and two misdemeanor counts of resisting arrest, according to police and Cook County prosecutors." But in the end: "The sentence was handed down Monday after Lovelle Jordan, 27, pleaded guilty to attempted murder and aggravated battery against a police officer." They dropped possession of a firearm by a felon and discharging. No illegal carrying. In Chicago. Even with a decade of felonies and shooting at cops, he was still a protected class when it came to dropping all firearms violations. I think he committed suicide in prison, too. |
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