Here is the thing, if either happens you'll get both at once.

We end up in WW3 the domestic situation will rapidly fall apart and that will lead to CW2.  We get into CW2 and the rest of world is going go up in flames fast with our enemies either taking sides or inserting themselves at the earliest opportunity.  

Maybe camo pattern will be less a consideration and we'll be more concerned with what leather pants and hockey mask we should be wearing as we ride across the waste lands all shiny and chrome.

We can call Diz  "Immortal Diz."


I joke, but if the center does not hold in this country or if things go sideways overseas in a big way we will be in a situation that will make the Fall of Rome look like a minor inconvenience by comparison. That new "Civil War" movie that A24 studios came out with didn't show a fraction of the total horror, not even a drop of just how awful it really would be on a global all of humanity scale. In the past Empires could fall and they'd impact parts of the world, but today if a power as critical as the USA were to fall it will be unlike anything humanity as ever witnessed.  So, pray every day for cooler heads to prevail.

There are other patterns + solid colors fabric being made in that new NYCO Extreme fabric.  However, not many people have started making garments out of it yet.  I know propper has some  'BDU 2.0' type pants in the fabric, including in solid colors, which might be a good option for pants.  And they aren't expensive.  

As for the ECWCS stuff - I have said, even though I've been an (unwilling) supporter of Woodland as the defacto 'civilian uniform' camo....just buy the military surplus ECWCS gear for rain / cold weather gear.  The price is just too good.

I'm also going to point out that the PCU line of military surplus rain / cold weather gear is in a solid earth tone color, that is a good option as well.  Same with some of the surplus USMC stuff coming on the market right now.

And there is always surplus British and German and French raingear, some of it being a good bit cheaper than the US stuff.  Same with some of the foreign cold weather stuff.

Those solid color PCU surplus rain / cold gear is probably a really good option.  It's far more neutral than any of the camo stuff, it's a good solid earthtone, and alot of it is gucci actually made by Patagonia gear.  

Oh.  And get yourself a British style smock.  Even if you have to buy on of the MTP pattern British surplus ones because you are on a budget  (they also have older pattern DPM ones too that aren't expensive....)  There are some good solid color options for smocks (Arktis, Varusteleka, Helikon) along with a ton of other options for camos.  (None in woodland, though I plan to start making US manufactured British style smocks eventually.  Especially in woodland.  If people start bugging me, I might fastrack that after my ALICE project, or hand it off to the other person working here.)

British style smocks are really really really good gear for long-term use in the field.

1.  MY BODY IS CHROME, MY BLOOD IS GASOLINE!!!

2.  "We can call Diz  "Immortal Diz."   -   GD it.  Where is the 'Like' button....

3.  We all better hope and pray that CW2.0 doesn't kick off here.  It'll be worse than even you describe.  And that's only if the electric grid doesn't immediately go down - which it will.  There is zero chance the Boog kicks off without the grid collapsing.  And if that happens, even without the war, 90% of the population is gone over the next few years.  

And then the surviving 10% will have to deal with our new Chinese overlords as they come 'rescue' us.

Very succinct.

I'm moving away from MC and other camos and going gray or Ranger Green.

I'd rather look like a regular dude than stick out. I say that as someone who just like Camo for the colors and shapes and broad variability. But jeans/khakis and and a button up shirt looks like 90% of construction workers and regular dudes.

Same goes for backpacks. I love earth tones and MOLLE but it still sticks out a bit. Though I've seen MOLLE backpacks at Wal-mart.

Where i live maybe 1 in 10/15 packs Is a molle or tactical looking One. Many Young adults Age 15/24 wear chest packs that look like hill people Gear ones (search alyx brand). There Is popularity in some Gangsta rap variant so guys try to be cool and strong looking by wearing even some replicas of body armor (i have seen surplus British flak jackets too buy they were clearly empty).  Camouflage Is common (h&m, Adidas, under armor, North face, many other brands have clothing in weird old camouflages), even some surplus (german flecktarn shirts, seen a few British goretex etc..). Not to count adults and elders using surplus as work or hunting clothing. Most of the times with a second glance you can pick up Who has some interest in military/survival/outdoor/firearms.
....and i live in a country where carrying (pistol, concealed) Is prohibited except for off Duty Police and some security guards or if a yearly permit Is issued  on a case to case basis by the regional governor (12000 people out of 58 millions).

Should something happens and italian armed Citizen would rally maybe we'll recognize among ourselves by the weapons

I live in the mountains.

Camo is not uncommon, and earth tones rule civilian wear.

However, it is very uncommon to see someone other than one of the local NG guys rocking multicam.  Even the local GWAT vets are going woodland or other camo patterns.  OCCASIONALLY you will see a ratted out pair of multicam pants being worn as work pants.

And I have yet to see a chest pack (other than my own HPG rig, which I only wear hiking) in public.  I HAVE seen a couple sling bags.  But I commonly see open carry - almost every time I'm in town - and a ton of people carry concealed.

I will add something for thought.

If you buy gear used (either here in the EE or a Facebook group or wherever)
You have a steady stream of guys dumping multicam stuff.

Will you look like a fed?  Maybe. Sure.  
Will you do it at a fraction of the price?  
Yes.  God yes.

Well I am guilty as hell here, on two counts.  I love the PCU system and have stocked deep on L1,2,&4.  Plus doubles on L5,6,&7.  And I love the newer ECWS stuff in OCP.  Especially the L4 jacket.  Monay!

So for sure, the equivalent stuff from the usual suspects would be astronomical.

Good point on the new jungle OCP stuff.  The older FR cammies I have are murder in hot weather.  

So under a budget, surplus still rocks; just so happens to be OCP.  

Of course the Brit smock rules.  Military 1st has smocks in RG and CB from a new vendor, and they're not that bad.  

I think dumping MC is as much an anti-gov statement as it is a tactical consideration.

I actually like my gear in Multicam.  I've got lots of different camo pattern uniforms and Multicam works ok with all of them.

It's the full head to toe Multicam uniform that looks like the .gov/.mil personnel to me.  

I like the idea of muted color civvy clothes with a non Multicam camo top handy that can be thrown on as needed. Camo color based on local effectiveness or pre planned with neighbors, groups, etc.

Bro.  The L4 jacket is where it's at.  I wore the crap out of my old windjackets while backpacking.  I hear so many people be like 'I never use the windjacket' talking about the PCU system.  People vastly underestimate how useful those things are.





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I have zero issue with multicam for gear if that's what you gotta do.  As stated, I'm a big fan of people not spending tons of money on gucci gear unless you can afford to do so.  And that means alot of surplus or basic gear.  Alot of which is in multicam nowadays.

On a side note, talking about gucci gear, I saw a great tweet on twitter a minute ago that went:

"“Tacticool” fashion is often cringe, but it is extremely Lindy. Ostentatious, expensive combat gear has been in style since prehistory.

The American neo-aristocracy will flaunt beautifully-embroidered plate carriers, showing scenes of great power"

Y'all trying to apply structure to times of chaos.

Thas funny.

It is pretty funny.

Actually, I've been thinking about selling most all my larping stuff lately.  

As I get older the thought that I'll actually use any of it for anything other than dress up or "training" is pretty fuckin' funny too.

I need a new hobby.

If it gets to the point where you cannot apply structure anymore to a situation, that's when the spikes shoulderpads, hockey masks, and supercharged war wagons come into play.

Which.  I guess.  Is a kind of structure all on it's own?

I'v always wanted to get a navy blue carrier put a star in the middle of the chest and then alternate red and white magazine carriers on the front so I could have Captain America armor.

Do it.  And post pics.

Also the assumption that government forces wouldn't ever be wearing M81 themselves may not be accurate. Many departments allow personnel to buy their own gear, and at least one special operations military unit still issues it (MARSOC).

And multicam had a lot of science that went in to its development. It's a smartly designed camo.

Can we at least all agree that (un-dyed) ACU is off the table?

Works pretty good in drought conditions.

sigh

I hope nothing ever happens.  But I prepare for the worst.  Even if not in my lifetime, my chosen heirs will have that option.

The ECWCS Stuff in UCP makes decent makeshift snow Gear as well.

I actually have a L5 softshell jacket and pants and a rainjacket in UCP I picked up super cheap just for this reason actually.  That and an oversized Arktis L4 Windshirt that I plan to use as an overwhite top in the winter.  

Though being in the SE Appalachian mountains, it's heavily forested, decent mix of pines, which means we aren't all white all the time.

It's just our bare minimum civic duty, that's the way I've always looked at it.

That civic duty doesn't end when someone's military serivce does and civilans in other professions outside the military are not excused from it.

I don't prepare for any single event or scenario, I prepare because it's my duty to be prepared, because myself and every American is necessary to the security of a free state.

Same.  I take being an American, our Constitution, and everything our country was founded on serious.  On top of just straight civic duty.  

And people don't realize the statistical odds of something bad happening.  I remember reading a college thesis someone did once, a math whiz kid.  It was on the statistical probability of a civil war, revolution, collapse of society, or invasion by a foreign power happening in a Western nation.  It was something like every 80 years.  Close enough that most people would, statistically, have a seriously high chance of seeing it happen while they were alive.  

We've had it really good here in the USA, and that has been an anomaly in history.  So yea.  I have zero problem with the civilian population taking this stuff seriously.

Speaking of camo.........

https://www.helikon-tex.com/en_usd/bl-rad-sp-raid-shirt.html

If you take incoming when you're in the shower, crocs and a towel (optional) are the uniform

DNC with ranger green is sexy. And I live in rural OH, with all trees and hill, green is year round great.

No pattern is going to make you invisible, and if anyone thinks wearing MC vs MC Tropic vs M81 etc is going to drastically change your "survivability", you're likely not putting your thought and time into the right things. It's more of a fashion statement.

It could help conceal you from distance, but that's mostly it. IFF as a civilian is pretty impossible to plan as well. Buy what you like, look cool, die of something someday.

Hoody2shoes mentioned something about most modern patterns breaking up your figure, which is all it's meant to do. Break up the figure.

Nice, I see they claim it's the same material as the U.S. Army IHWCU.  So, I take it that it's as light to wear in hot weather? Can anyone confirm that?

I remember seeing these presented on YouTube, but couldn't find them until now. May have to pick up the Tiger Stripe one.

7 "S's" of Camouflage, if you've addressed them than you're good to go whether it's MC or M81 or whatever.

IFF is handy, but sometimes it's handy to look like the enemy too or to look like a noncombatant.  Might want the ability to mix it up and do a little column A and B in one outing.  Toss off the camo and be prepared to walk into a civilian area or whatever looking like a normal John Doe type.  

Thermal is a new consideration. Plenty of good videos now by some decent fellas on thermal signature mitigation.   Thermal is only going to come down in price and with the Chinese making really quality thermals it's going to be everywhere soon.  I wouldn't be suprised if the current 640 $3K thermals end up coming down to as low as $2K in just a few years.

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Yea, that's kind of what I was getting at - pick whatever the hell you like, it isn't as impactful as us super nerds think.

Yup.  Couldn't agree more. There is joy though in being a nerd for camo and gear. I don't know what it is, but God help me I love the stuff.

Got the Red Dawn poster framed in my theater room. Love that film.

I still have to have mostly normal clothes, but when I can retire I'm going to get every damn piece of camo that I can find including that Russian knock off camo they used in Red Dawn.

This Is The Way