Unless they are doing foreign weapons fam fire they'd best not be firing 7.62 x 39

Sounds like a good idea.    

I knew someone who killed a team mate in SWAT training when they were using blanks and live ammo got into play.  The list of fuckups that lead to it was quite long and that particular team was disbanded.  Guy who did it was not someone I would have considered to be a screwup either, prior military guy, good shooter…. Still happened.

It did not specify unit in the article. All Spec Ops on the base were issued a stand down.

So it could have very likely been CA or Psyops.

But yeah, dumb.

First thing I thought of was GSB, but even the ODAs have experienced some spectacular failures in the ten years I’ve been supporting U.S. Army training units.

It happens.  SF is made up of people and people aren’t without fault.  When all you do is train and deploy and then train and deploy some more, a mistake is bound to be made-it’s what happens when you’re on the field and in the game.  The only way to 100% stop training accidents, is to stop training.

Now, was it preventable?  Of course it was.  Sometimes you just have to stop what you’re doing, take a deep breath, and think about shit for an extra 30 seconds before moving forward in order to mitigate dumb mistakes.  

Pretty sure separating blanks and ball was articulated in the DD Form 2977 that was submitted for approval prior to training.  

A 2977 was completed, correct?  

If that’s not the case and shortcuts were taken, unit was wrong and Army regs weren't followed.  Ooops…

Side note:  I fucking hate DRAWs.  I mean, have some common sense so we don’t have to listen to the “I told you so” lectures from self-assured bureaucrats that have wormed their way into DoD.  

Anyway, hard to say what really happened leading up to the mishap.  As others have said, not the first time and won’t be the last.  RSO and OIC fucked up big time for sure though.

Um, yeah....

You can head over to that corner and do Force on Force all by yourself, pointing a stick and yelling BANG!

This isn't a Boyscout or Appleseed event. These are the big boys training to kill other big boys.

How do you propose training to point a gun at someone that you do wish to destroy? There are lessons that can only be learned from force on force training.

It was an ODA training with some rando 7th guys as opfor.

And besides, CA and PO don't exactly do a lot of fof training.

Many here know I plan and execute USAF exercises that often involve blanks.  It scares the shit out of me because this event isn't the first time this has happened.  

Attached File

The .mil already wastes enough money, why not just go full non lethal such as simmunition or UTM?  Can't fire live ammo if you tried.  Each "training center" needs the uppers, not each unit.

Blanks are cool for sound, that's about it, and honestly aren't even realistic.

Fortunately that appears to be a cheeto round. Probably got missed during the line out somehow, and whoever found it didn't want to get screamed at for having it afterwards.

Mixing blanks and live ammo is a huge no-no. A bigger no-no than mixing live rounds with dunnage. If you've ever been part of training that included both blank fire and live fire evolutions then you know how much of a huge, time consuming pain in the ass it is to switch over-much more so if it is a night range. And this is exactly why.

Complacency somewhere along the line most likely played a role. This is basic, day 1 2ndLt stuff.

Fortunately it looks like nobody was killed.

I have been shot at with live ammo in a training environment.

Lack of sleep, a perceived need to rush through the prep and training evolution, and a somewhat entitled leader who's favorite line was "shut up, I've been doing this longer than you" is going to cost the USG money. I will get all that monies. I'm lucky to be alive.

I’ve seen some weird incorrect shit come out of factory wire sealed crates/cans myself.

Nothing that would cause safety issues like that, but it does happen.

One of the reasons I can’t watch that movie.

1978/79.  Ft. A.P. Hill, VA.  1st platoon of Company E (Honor Guard) 3rd US Inf. Battalion out of Ft. Myer.

We were assigned to an aggressor detail one morning and told to report to the guys running things over at an old APC to the side of the campsite.  One of the guys (I still remember his name) was told to go get "ammo" for his M60.  He did.  We were standing beside the APC shooting the shit and waiting to be told to load up for our first ambush of the day when the guy with the M60 sets it up above us on the APC and yells out "test fire!"  He let go a short burst and I saw bark/limbs fly off a big tree 50 or 60 yds. from us.  I was sort of standing there trying to figure out what would make the bark ly off the tree like that.  The guys sitting under the tree were looking up trying to see what was falling on them.  My buddy holler out, "You stupid mother fxxxxxx" and pushed by me to run around to the back of the APC.  I heard some slapping/smacking around going on above me and looked up to see the end of the barrel of that M60 with the flash suppressor bent/twisted nearly off the barrel and no sign to the orange painted blank firing adaptor that had been clamped to the front sight a few minutes ago.

The guy with the B60 walked over to the armorers, told them he needed some ammo for the M60 and they gave him a couple belts of 7.62 FMJ.  He came back to the APC, climbed up and loaded the first belt into the gun and cut loose for his test fire.  I don't know how many rounds fired before it jammed up.  I don't know how many of those rounds hit the tree above the guys sitting under it.  I wonder, to this day, how someone could have been in the Army for a couple years and not know the difference between blanks and live ammo.  No one got hit by the pieces of blank firing adaptor, the bullets, etc.  Very lucky day for everyone involved.

People can do some stupid shit.  Oh, at that time, in order to be considered for the Old Guard you had to have scores on (did they call that test the ASFAB?  or ASVAB? or something like that) high enough to get into West Point, or so we were told.   I was told I should petition my congressman for an appointment to West Point but when I heard what a mickey mouse shit place it was an how they treated the first year guys I knew I wouldn't last.  I'd have done something mean/terrifle to someone the day I'd had enough.

15 years ago I had inspectors observing the stuffing of mags with blanks. I do this every time. The stupid USAF CE troops pulled live ammo for the exercise.

I stopped all force on force for that exercise.

I am running a week long event next week and already shared the OP article with my team and the Wing at large.