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*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Originally Posted By FedDC: This. One of the selling points of the surefire faux suppressor BFA is that it serves as a physical bullet trap/block and can absorb a LOT of live ammo before failing, usually in a way that makes it obvious to the shooter. View Quote Sounds like a good idea. I knew someone who killed a team mate in SWAT training when they were using blanks and live ammo got into play. The list of fuckups that lead to it was quite long and that particular team was disbanded. Guy who did it was not someone I would have considered to be a screwup either, prior military guy, good shooter…. Still happened. |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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It did not specify unit in the article. All Spec Ops on the base were issued a stand down.
So it could have very likely been CA or Psyops. But yeah, dumb. |
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First thing I thought of was GSB, but even the ODAs have experienced some spectacular failures in the ten years I’ve been supporting U.S. Army training units.
It happens. SF is made up of people and people aren’t without fault. When all you do is train and deploy and then train and deploy some more, a mistake is bound to be made-it’s what happens when you’re on the field and in the game. The only way to 100% stop training accidents, is to stop training. Now, was it preventable? Of course it was. Sometimes you just have to stop what you’re doing, take a deep breath, and think about shit for an extra 30 seconds before moving forward in order to mitigate dumb mistakes. Pretty sure separating blanks and ball was articulated in the DD Form 2977 that was submitted for approval prior to training. A 2977 was completed, correct? If that’s not the case and shortcuts were taken, unit was wrong and Army regs weren't followed. Ooops… Side note: I fucking hate DRAWs. I mean, have some common sense so we don’t have to listen to the “I told you so” lectures from self-assured bureaucrats that have wormed their way into DoD. Anyway, hard to say what really happened leading up to the mishap. As others have said, not the first time and won’t be the last. RSO and OIC fucked up big time for sure though. |
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Originally Posted By m200maker: Even easier fix is don't point a gun at anyone or anything you do not intend to destroy. Ever. View Quote You can head over to that corner and do Force on Force all by yourself, pointing a stick and yelling BANG! This isn't a Boyscout or Appleseed event. These are the big boys training to kill other big boys. |
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Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
... Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman |
Originally Posted By m200maker: Even easier fix is don’t point a gun at anyone or anything you do not intend to destroy. Ever. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By m200maker: Originally Posted By fighter443: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122302/IMG_3397-3207787.jpg Seems like an easy fix with some electrical tape. Even easier fix is don’t point a gun at anyone or anything you do not intend to destroy. Ever. How do you propose training to point a gun at someone that you do wish to destroy? There are lessons that can only be learned from force on force training. |
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Originally Posted By SturmgeschutzIII: It did not specify unit in the article. All Spec Ops on the base were issued a stand down. So it could have very likely been CA or Psyops. But yeah, dumb. View Quote It was an ODA training with some rando 7th guys as opfor. And besides, CA and PO don't exactly do a lot of fof training. |
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A Grendel's Love is different from a 5.56's Love
SC, USA
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Many here know I plan and execute USAF exercises that often involve blanks. It scares the shit out of me because this event isn't the first time this has happened.
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Leave me alone. I’m a libertarian. CW vet x7, give away a kidney to a loved one if they need it.
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The .mil already wastes enough money, why not just go full non lethal such as simmunition or UTM? Can't fire live ammo if you tried. Each "training center" needs the uppers, not each unit.
Blanks are cool for sound, that's about it, and honestly aren't even realistic. |
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Originally Posted By Defender3: ^^^^^^^^^^^^ This OIC and RSOs have some 'splainin to do. ETA: An extract from the Quantico Range Brief. The picture is a 40mm that got sucked up by the Don's Johns guy from a porta potty: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Blank_Ammo-3207792.jpg View Quote Fortunately that appears to be a cheeto round. Probably got missed during the line out somehow, and whoever found it didn't want to get screamed at for having it afterwards. Mixing blanks and live ammo is a huge no-no. A bigger no-no than mixing live rounds with dunnage. If you've ever been part of training that included both blank fire and live fire evolutions then you know how much of a huge, time consuming pain in the ass it is to switch over-much more so if it is a night range. And this is exactly why. Complacency somewhere along the line most likely played a role. This is basic, day 1 2ndLt stuff. Fortunately it looks like nobody was killed. |
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I have been shot at with live ammo in a training environment.
Lack of sleep, a perceived need to rush through the prep and training evolution, and a somewhat entitled leader who's favorite line was "shut up, I've been doing this longer than you" is going to cost the USG money. I will get all that monies. I'm lucky to be alive. |
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Originally Posted By cvtrpr: I know an Infantry Company Commander who just rotated home from Syria. While turning in their training ammo, one of his PSG's brought him a SAW drum, that the PSG himself had opened the can (the E7 broke the lead and wire seal on the can). The drum was marked M200. The PSG thought the drum was heavier than it should have been. He brought it to his TOC (Commander) and they opened the drum together - it was 4/1 Ball mix. He has photo evidence, I have seen it. This *may* be a larger LCAAP problem. https://scontent.fsac1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/441214588_10230384171339638_3637304462618250315_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=vgBnE4Rh5_4Q7kNvgGreGtw&_nc_ht=scontent.fsac1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDxjLlZnBWk6rvE0Veizv1EuzhNi2BQgsl5WVryUmGEow&oe=663FF2C5 It actually looks like M995 View Quote I’ve seen some weird incorrect shit come out of factory wire sealed crates/cans myself. Nothing that would cause safety issues like that, but it does happen. |
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Originally Posted By fighter443: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122302/IMG_3397-3207787.jpg Seems like an easy fix with some electrical tape. View Quote One of the reasons I can’t watch that movie. |
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BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles. People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird. |
1978/79. Ft. A.P. Hill, VA. 1st platoon of Company E (Honor Guard) 3rd US Inf. Battalion out of Ft. Myer.
We were assigned to an aggressor detail one morning and told to report to the guys running things over at an old APC to the side of the campsite. One of the guys (I still remember his name) was told to go get "ammo" for his M60. He did. We were standing beside the APC shooting the shit and waiting to be told to load up for our first ambush of the day when the guy with the M60 sets it up above us on the APC and yells out "test fire!" He let go a short burst and I saw bark/limbs fly off a big tree 50 or 60 yds. from us. I was sort of standing there trying to figure out what would make the bark ly off the tree like that. The guys sitting under the tree were looking up trying to see what was falling on them. My buddy holler out, "You stupid mother fxxxxxx" and pushed by me to run around to the back of the APC. I heard some slapping/smacking around going on above me and looked up to see the end of the barrel of that M60 with the flash suppressor bent/twisted nearly off the barrel and no sign to the orange painted blank firing adaptor that had been clamped to the front sight a few minutes ago. The guy with the B60 walked over to the armorers, told them he needed some ammo for the M60 and they gave him a couple belts of 7.62 FMJ. He came back to the APC, climbed up and loaded the first belt into the gun and cut loose for his test fire. I don't know how many rounds fired before it jammed up. I don't know how many of those rounds hit the tree above the guys sitting under it. I wonder, to this day, how someone could have been in the Army for a couple years and not know the difference between blanks and live ammo. No one got hit by the pieces of blank firing adaptor, the bullets, etc. Very lucky day for everyone involved. People can do some stupid shit. Oh, at that time, in order to be considered for the Old Guard you had to have scores on (did they call that test the ASFAB? or ASVAB? or something like that) high enough to get into West Point, or so we were told. I was told I should petition my congressman for an appointment to West Point but when I heard what a mickey mouse shit place it was an how they treated the first year guys I knew I wouldn't last. I'd have done something mean/terrifle to someone the day I'd had enough. |
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How you live your life is important. Just be sure the memory of how you died doesn't overshadow the tales of how you lived your life.
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A Grendel's Love is different from a 5.56's Love
SC, USA
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Originally Posted By M1A4ME: 1978/79. Ft. A.P. Hill, VA. 1st platoon of Company E (Honor Guard) 3rd US Inf. Battalion out of Ft. Myer. We were assigned to an aggressor detail one morning and told to report to the guys running things over at an old APC to the side of the campsite. One of the guys (I still remember his name) was told to go get "ammo" for his M60. He did. We were standing beside the APC shooting the shit and waiting to be told to load up for our first ambush of the day when the guy with the M60 sets it up above us on the APC and yells out "test fire!" He let go a short burst and I saw bark/limbs fly off a big tree 50 or 60 yds. from us. I was sort of standing there trying to figure out what would make the bark ly off the tree like that. The guys sitting under the tree were looking up trying to see what was falling on them. My buddy holler out, "You stupid mother fxxxxxx" and pushed by me to run around to the back of the APC. I heard some slapping/smacking around going on above me and looked up to see the end of the barrel of that M60 with the flash suppressor bent/twisted nearly off the barrel and no sign to the orange painted blank firing adaptor that had been clamped to the front sight a few minutes ago. The guy with the B60 walked over to the armorers, told them he needed some ammo for the M60 and they gave him a couple belts of 7.62 FMJ. He came back to the APC, climbed up and loaded the first belt into the gun and cut loose for his test fire. I don't know how many rounds fired before it jammed up. I don't know how many of those rounds hit the tree above the guys sitting under it. I wonder, to this day, how someone could have been in the Army for a couple years and not know the difference between blanks and live ammo. No one got hit by the pieces of blank firing adaptor, the bullets, etc. Very lucky day for everyone involved. People can do some stupid shit. Oh, at that time, in order to be considered for the Old Guard you had to have scores on (did they call that test the ASFAB? or ASVAB? or something like that) high enough to get into West Point, or so we were told. I was told I should petition my congressman for an appointment to West Point but when I heard what a mickey mouse shit place it was an how they treated the first year guys I knew I wouldn't last. I'd have done something mean/terrifle to someone the day I'd had enough. View Quote 15 years ago I had inspectors observing the stuffing of mags with blanks. I do this every time. The stupid USAF CE troops pulled live ammo for the exercise. I stopped all force on force for that exercise. I am running a week long event next week and already shared the OP article with my team and the Wing at large. |
Leave me alone. I’m a libertarian. CW vet x7, give away a kidney to a loved one if they need it.
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