Did you read the "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" tacked at the top of the page? I spent a loooooong time accumulating all of the data that went into it.
View Quote
I would like to express my appreciation for the work you put into that ! Read it years ago even before joining the fourm and still like to reread it every now and again.
Posted: 3/6/2024 3:51:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote History
Quoted:
I would like to express my appreciation for the work you put into that !
View QuoteView All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Did you read the "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" tacked at the top of the page? I spent a loooooong time accumulating all of the data that went into it.
I would like to express my appreciation for the work you put into that !
Hear, hear!
...
Posted: 3/6/2024 7:56:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote History
Quoted:
I have read a lot of ammo ballistic write ups from @molon. I wonder what self defense AR15 223/556 he chooses?
View Quote
62/64 grain Gold Dot
10-shot group of hand-loaded 62 grain Gold Dot: extreme spread = 0.58”
Nosler 64 grain Bonded Solid Base
Terminal ballistic testing conducted by Dr. G.K. Roberts using the scientific standard of properly prepared and validated 10% ordnance gelatin has shown that the 64 grain BSB can produce an average penetration depth of 17.1” in bare gelatin with a recovered diameter of 0.46” (when fired from a 16" barrel.) After passing through an intermediate barrier of automobile safety glass, the 64 grain BSB can produce average penetration depth of 13.6” with a recovered diameter of 0.35” (again from a 16” barrel.)
10-shot group of hand-loaded Nosler 64 grain BSB: extreme spread = 0.822"
Sierra 77 grain Tipped MatchKing
10-shot group of handloaded 77 grain TMK: extreme spread = 0.68”.
Nosler 77 grain OTM
10-shot group of hand-loaded Nosler 77 grain OTM: extreme spread = 0.807”
....
Posted: 3/6/2024 8:23:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote History
Quoted:
Did you read the "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" tacked at the top of the page? I spent a loooooong time accumulating all of the data that went into it.
View Quote
A Sincere thanks for your time and effort. I'm not going to quibble. I have been reading this stuff since the Ammo Oracle, Troy, etc.
Posted: 3/6/2024 10:58:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks for the kind words, everyone. The sad thing is that I haven't updated it in forever, but that's because there haven't been any major advancements. The bullets that were tested and recommended are still good today.
The only caveat is that people think that if the 77gr SMK fragments well, that ANY 77gr OTM will fragment and that might not be the case.
Posted: 3/7/2024 5:33:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote History
Quoted:
The only caveat is that people think that if the 77gr SMK fragments well, that ANY 77gr OTM will fragment and that might not be the case.
View Quote
Unfortunately, the 77 grain MatchKing does not have reliable terminal ballistic properties compared to the 77 grain Nosler OTM, 75 grain Hornady T2 and the 77 grain Tipped MatchKing. It can have an excessively long ballistic neck and a lower percentage of fragmentation compared to the previously mentioned bullets.
…
Posted: 3/8/2024 11:33:27 AM EDT
[#7]
I treat all of the 75/77gr SMK's and OTM as better M193's in terms of bullets that CAN, and often do fragment via yaw, but were not specifically designed to do so. Thus the necks could be longer than something that was designed to break apart.
I consider the TMK heavy varmint rounds, which were intended to fragment. Of course velocity plays a big part in that as well.
I loaded up on mostly 77gr IMI SMK's prior to ACC selling TMK's that are actually affordable. (But I don't shoot any of them now).
Posted: 3/11/2024 10:59:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote History
Quoted: I treat all of the 75/77gr SMK's and OTM as better M193's in terms of bullets that CAN, and often do fragment via yaw, but were not specifically designed to do so. Thus the necks could be longer than something that was designed to break apart.
I consider the TMK heavy varmint rounds, which were intended to fragment. Of course velocity plays a big part in that as well.
I loaded up on mostly 77gr IMI SMK's prior to ACC selling TMK's that are actually affordable. (But I don't shoot any of them now).
View Quote
Ive founs 77 TMK to be about a 2.5-3moa round so its mainky for bigger closer targets for me.
Posted: 3/11/2024 11:25:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote History
Quoted:
Ive founs 77 TMK to be about a 2.5-3moa round
View Quote
Something is not right with that. My hand-loads with the 77 grain MatchKing have produced sub 3/4 MOA 10-shot groups. The original lots of the Black Hills 77 grain TMK were a little over 1 MOA and the newer lots have turned in some sub MOA 10-shot groups.
Hand load . . .
Factor loads . . .
....
Posted: 3/11/2024 11:58:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote History
Quoted:
Something is not right with that. My hand-loads with the 77 grain MatchKing have produced sub 3/4 MOA 10-shot groups. The original lots of the Black Hills 77 grain TMK were a little over 1 MOA and the newer lots have turned in some sub MOA 10-shot groups.
I've shot it in multiple guns. In all of them, I average 3moa or so. In the same range session as Browntip, MK262, etc averages 1.5-1.8. Of course, I only use chrome lined LW barrels, so there is that. 10 shot groups.
Every year or two, I buy a new 50rd box from Black hills. In every case it continues to return the aforementioned performance.
Posted: 3/11/2024 12:10:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:
It isn't about bouncing off, it is about being able to penetrate deep enough reach vitals and incapacitate regardless of odd angles, clothing etc.
V-max/Varmageddon works in 300blk because is is a much heavier bullet going at a slower speed, so it does not fragment as quickly. The core still penetrates to 14 inches and is usually retains close to half of the original weight.
55gr Vmax will over fragment due to velocity, and may not penetrate deep enough to hit vitals if at an off angle shot. (Think shooting through on out stretched arm).
View Quote
PAGING KYLE RITTENHOUSE TO THE WHITE COURTESY PHONE