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Posted: 7/26/2011 1:14:23 PM EDT
[#1]
What lube was used? The parts look dry; did it burn off in the blast?
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Posted: 7/26/2011 1:22:05 PM EDT
[#2]
WOW
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Posted: 7/26/2011 1:25:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Glad your okay. That looks insane.
I just ordered some .223 reloads from USA ammo today so I'm a little worried. Hopefully they get the problem corrected but for the meantime I'm going to try to switch my order from reloads to new. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 2:01:36 PM EDT
[#4]
I shoot USA ammo in 40 and 45. Never had a problem so far. (Knock Wood). I also reload .223 and many others. Mostly rifle.
I would be willing to bet this kaboom was caused by handgun powder being used instead of rifle powder. Trust me, this is very easy to do when you reload both pistol and rifle. And, this is what happens if the mistake is not caught in time. This is not the first time this as happened and it won't be the last, i'm sorry to say. BTW, glad you are ok. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 3:15:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Glad your okay. That looks insane. I just ordered some .223 reloads from USA ammo today so I'm a little worried. Hopefully they get the problem corrected but for the meantime I'm going to try to switch my order from reloads to new. If it's from the same factory with the same Quality Control and the problem was accidental use of handgun powder or not enough powder, then would it even matter if it was reloads or new? |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 3:19:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Not to hijack, but can somebody please explain to me exactly what happened in this Kb? I see that the bolt is still partially locked. Does that much gas get blown by the bolt and into the receiver during a Kb to make the thing blow apart yet fail to fully unlock and blow the carrier back? I would think that the bolt lugs would go first before anything else but this is apparently not the case.
Sorry if I am asking a noob question but I have never seen a Kb happen or examine a rifle in person after one. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 3:50:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Anyone that wants to dump their ammo. I'll give you $0.05 per round.
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Posted: 7/26/2011 4:31:53 PM EDT
[#8]
isnt usa ammo the company who just had big half off ammo sale? if so glad i didnt jump on that wagon.
glad you are ok. hopefully you get a new rifle. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 4:35:56 PM EDT
[#9]
 i (like many others in here) also ordered ammo from them with that $100 gift card promotion. i admit i dont wear eye protection at the range but i will from now on.
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Posted: 7/26/2011 4:54:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: isnt usa ammo the company who just had big half off ammo sale? yes and I just bought a alot of ammo  |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 5:11:05 PM EDT
[#11]
I wish USA AMMO would see this thread and here what they have to say. May some one can email this thread to them
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Posted: 7/26/2011 5:14:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I wish USA AMMO would see this thread and here what they have to say. May some one can email this thread to them If you haven't noticed, the OP updated his original post with their most recent reply. They're even working out details about replacing the rifle. All that said, I'd never heard of USA Ammo before seeing this thread, so I don't want to hear any nonsense about me defending them. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 5:16:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
What lube was used? The parts look dry; did it burn off in the blast? . Nearly always happens. All that hot gas will evaporate whatever lube is present. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 5:26:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Glad you are OK !
Good on you NVCapCop, for posting the re-manufacturer and lot number so other shooters can check their inventory. Hopefully your losses are made good and the reman firm can get their program straightened out. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 5:33:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Glad to see you're alright and definitely keep us posted with the outcome. On another note, your BCG look bone dry dude..throw some oil of the next one for sure  Almost always does after a kaboom, it vaporizes. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 5:37:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Damn....another good reason not to buy or shoot ANYBODY'S reloads, regardless of reputation. Along with foreign steel cased crap...you get what you pay for.
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Posted: 7/26/2011 5:50:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Glad to hear they are gonna replace your rifle, keep us posted on how it works out.
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Posted: 7/26/2011 6:29:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Like others have said, HOLE-LEE SHIT. Glad you weren't hurt, man. I can't remember seeing a worse kaboom. That rifle is shredded.
The Smith seems to have contained the bomb pretty well. This makes me feel better about my M&P-15s. But, DAYUM. 
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Posted: 7/26/2011 7:05:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Wow. I am glad to hear you weren't hurt and that they seem to be making things right.
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Posted: 7/26/2011 7:37:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Yikes, a close call. This reminds me why I rarely shoot anything but my own handloads, .22 rimfire excepting. On rare occasions I have produced a hot load that flattens a primer or splits a case just above the head, but nothing like this. - CW
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Posted: 7/26/2011 8:17:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Glad your OK!
Sounds like they are making it right, good to hear. Just received my order from them. 2k 9mm new production...... I'm not to worried myself but had I purchased riffle ammo Id be more concerned. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 9:04:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Also glad the OP was not injured. He didn't say anything about a case head separation, and in fact the bolt appears to still be in battery in one of the pictures, so I'm thinking that wasn't what happened here. Whatever it was, it had a helluva lot of force to break his bolt in two and cause that kind of damage to the upper and lower. And like others have noted, an overcharge of powder isn't that likely. I'm leaning toward it being charged with the WRONG powder. . When I had my case head separation, the rifle was still locked in battery, and required a solid rod down the barrel, a claw hammer, and a tree stump to get the bolt to unlock. The GA Hometown moderator has pictures, as he did the rifle surgery. It did almost the exact same damage. It broke my bolt release paddle in half, ripped the extractor apart, warped the upper like this example, and warped the lower such that a magazine couldn't be inserted. The magazine was destroyed. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 9:04:24 PM EDT
[#23]
brutal. glad you're alright.
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Posted: 7/26/2011 9:06:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Anyone that wants to dump their ammo. I'll give you $0.05 per round. Ditto 
but seriously, PM me Also, If anyone wants to get rid of one of those $50 for $100 GCs, let me know |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 9:18:19 PM EDT
[#25]
I'll do $0.10 a round. Welcome to capitalism bitches
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Posted: 7/26/2011 9:36:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Man, I got 250 rounds of their reloads and 100 rounds of their new .223 coming in next week. I hope they can narrow down a Lot # range if it really is an widespread issue on their production. Otherwise, I'll be doubling up on my eye pro (I wear prescription glasses only usually) when I see this stuff
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Posted: 7/27/2011 2:15:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Yeah...glad you're unhurt...no shit, that sucks.
At least the ammo co. is trying to do the right thing and take care of replacing your rifle... |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 3:57:37 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: Can someone explain to me what series of events leads to this type of KB? Anyone...Anyone...? Extreme pressure. The brass will become plastic, flow towards the bolt face, and try to get into every nook and cranny it can. The case head expands and will usually split the bolt face. It also forms a belt where the bolt meets the barrel face. The case will blowout where the extractor is and the extractor will be bent so much you can't get the bolt out of the barrel extension. When all this pressure is released by the case blowout it travels along the BC and down the magwell, which usually expands the sides of the receiver and the magazine walls. The bolt, BC, upper receiver, and barrel extension are toast. Barrel should not be used again. Magwell should be measured for damage. Glad the OP is ok. |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 4:22:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can someone explain to me what series of events leads to this type of KB? Anyone...Anyone...? Extreme pressure. The brass will become plastic, flow towards the bolt face, and try to get into every nook and cranny it can. The case head expands and will usually split the bolt face. It also forms a belt where the bolt meets the barrel face. The case will blowout where the extractor is and the extractor will be bent so much you can't get the bolt out of the barrel extension. When all this pressure is released by the case blowout it travels along the BC and down the magwell, which usually expands the sides of the receiver and the magazine walls. Thanks for the explanation. If it was indeed pistol powder loaded into a rifle case, how does a pistol handle the pressure that the AR15 couldn't? Or is it a function of volume of powder (pistol case would have less total powder)? Also, even with the over-pressure, why does the bolt blow apart instead of the bullet getting pushed down the barrel? I would think the pressure would take the path of least resistance. |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 4:39:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can someone explain to me what series of events leads to this type of KB? Anyone...Anyone...? Extreme pressure. The brass will become plastic, flow towards the bolt face, and try to get into every nook and cranny it can. The case head expands and will usually split the bolt face. It also forms a belt where the bolt meets the barrel face. The case will blowout where the extractor is and the extractor will be bent so much you can't get the bolt out of the barrel extension. When all this pressure is released by the case blowout it travels along the BC and down the magwell, which usually expands the sides of the receiver and the magazine walls. Thanks for the explanation. If it was indeed pistol powder loaded into a rifle case, how does a pistol handle the pressure that the AR15 couldn't? Or is it a function of volume of powder (pistol case would have less total powder)? Also, even with the over-pressure, why does the bolt blow apart instead of the bullet getting pushed down the barrel? I would think the pressure would take the path of least resistance. Oh the bullet does leave the barrel and probably at a very high velocity. Wish I had a chrono set up when mine KB'd. Pressure is controlled by burn rate and volume. Less volume in a pistol case equals less pressure, even with fast burning powders. Put that same powder in a large vessel and pressure will spike over 100K PSI. While the bullet is still in the bore and the pressure spike is at its highest the case blowout occurs. If there is any residual pressure left after the bullet leaves the barrel then it escapes via muzzle and the already ruptured case. |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 5:16:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Glad you're okay with only minor injury!
Sorry to see such a pretty rifle so damaged!
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Posted: 7/27/2011 5:18:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:...
Oh the bullet does leave the barrel and probably at a very high velocity. Wish I had a chrono set up when mine KB'd. Pressure is controlled by burn rate and volume. Less volume in a pistol case equals less pressure, even with fast burning powders. Put that same powder in a large vessel and pressure will spike over 100K PSI. While the bullet is still in the bore and the pressure spike is at its highest the case blowout occurs. If there is any residual pressure left after the bullet leaves the barrel then it escapes via muzzle and the already ruptured case. You have it backwards. Less volume will increase pressure. Bullet set-back creates a high-pressure situation with normal loads due to the lower case volume. "Put that same powder in a large vessel and pressure will spike over 100K PSI" Not true - certainly not true under normal conditions. Low-velocity rifle loads are created by using pistol powders in rifle cases. Blue Dot in .223 cases is one example. One must be very careful to use small, pistol-sized charges of powder in the larger rifle cases for this application. A full case of pistol powder in a rifle case will cause a sudden dis-assembly of the gun. |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 5:26:01 AM EDT
[#33]
Yes, I meant to say powder volume.
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Posted: 7/27/2011 8:15:10 AM EDT
[#34]
amen
 Quoted: Never buy someone's reloads? |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 8:35:51 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
amen
Quoted:
Never buy someone's reloads? If given the choice of someones elses underwear or reloads, always choose no. I wont even shoot ammo my own family members make. |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 10:21:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: One word (to avoid): reloads. You just about never hear of KBs with factory ammo...just sayin'. The most important thing was no one was hurt. Of course not. Because no one who uses factory actually shoots the stuff. 
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Posted: 7/27/2011 10:50:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Any update?
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Posted: 7/27/2011 11:04:04 AM EDT
[#38]
The FIRST thing I thought when I saw USA brand was Winchester white box. Glad I read the whole thread. I had never heard of USA reloads.
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Posted: 7/27/2011 11:04:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Man glad your ok and that sucks for your rifle..the one thing I always notice in these accidents is how well the AR15 absorbs the kaboom and protects the operator. thats a good point, i wonder how something like a SCAR or ACR would hold up? glad your ok OP in the bushmaster industry part of this forum there is an ACR kaboom thread For the lazy who can't click Industry :P I'm curious how a bullpup would have handled that. say an Aug or MSAR. |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 11:36:42 AM EDT
[#40]
That has to be the worst AR15 KB I have ever seen.
Glad you're okay. Wow... |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 12:37:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
I'm curious how a bullpup would have handled that. say an Aug or MSAR. I have an MSAR and I don't want to know how it would handle it. |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 1:07:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Yes you do hear about factory KBs. Lots of the KBs out there are factory ammo.
And "factory" reloads are really no different than a factory new round except the brass has been fire previously. These large scale "reloading" outfits are not hiring illegal immigrants to hunch over a Dillon or Hornady progressive and crank out ammo. They use commercial machines, just like the "factory" |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 1:50:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
That has to be the worst AR15 KB I have ever seen. Glad you're okay. Wow... http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/04/13/big-ar-15-kaboom/ |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 3:59:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Since it's once-fired brass, I'm saying case head failure secondary to weakened brass fired from a SAW. This has been the problem that plagues Georgia Arms, and what led to my KB with their ammo. If USA gets their once-fired brass from the military, I can almost guarantee this to be the case. Your KB looks just like mine did, only your bolt broke. Mine destroyed my silencer due to the decreased velocity of the round and early destabilization just after it left the barrel. I've had 2 case head separations in my Del-Ton upper. The only thing that has ever happened is that the extractor pulls the case head out, and it won't fully chamber the next round because the body of the case is still in the chamber. Neither blew up the gun like this. |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 8:22:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
If it was indeed pistol powder loaded into a rifle case, how does a pistol handle the pressure that the AR15 couldn't? Or is it a function of volume of powder (pistol case would have less total powder)? Pistol powder is very fast burning and deveoped to push its payload efficiently out of a very short barrel. A .38 Special load might only require 3.0 grains of pistol powder. If 25 grains of pistol powder finds its way into a 5.56 case it becomes a grenade. Also, even with the over-pressure, why does the bolt blow apart instead of the bullet getting pushed down the barrel? I would think the pressure would take the path of least resistance. The explosion is moving so fast that the bullet cannot escape fast enough to relieve the pressure. |
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Posted: 7/27/2011 8:26:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
I'll do $0.10 a round. Welcome to capitalism bitch Fixed it for ya
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Posted: 7/27/2011 10:10:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Im Guessin it was a squb round. EVen an overloaded case would hold with propper 223 powder. Unless the loader used the wrong powder in that round. Ive seen it happen someone wasnt paying attention to there loads and put a scoup of WIN 231 pistol powder in a 30-06 case. I think his scope is still floating in orbit and the barrell blew completly off of the reciever +1 I agree man I got to change my avatar |
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Posted: 7/28/2011 5:52:33 AM EDT
[#48]
I bought 1k of 223 55 gr from usaammo a month ago and it turns out I have the same lot as in the aforementioned KB.
I've shot half of it already, about 200 rounds out of my LMT 11.5, and 150 rounds out of each of my galils. Only problem I had was a casing sheered off inside the chamber on one of the galils and required a broken case extractor. Have to play it by ear as new info from usaammo comes in. |
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Posted: 7/28/2011 7:13:41 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since it's once-fired brass, I'm saying case head failure secondary to weakened brass fired from a SAW. This has been the problem that plagues Georgia Arms, and what led to my KB with their ammo. If USA gets their once-fired brass from the military, I can almost guarantee this to be the case. Your KB looks just like mine did, only your bolt broke. Mine destroyed my silencer due to the decreased velocity of the round and early destabilization just after it left the barrel. I've had 2 case head separations in my Del-Ton upper. The only thing that has ever happened is that the extractor pulls the case head out, and it won't fully chamber the next round because the body of the case is still in the chamber. Neither blew up the gun like this. You're lucky. Georgia Arms has replaced quite a few rifles over the years from a repeated problem with their once-fired brass that they get from the military. It has been traced down to brass that is weakened by being fired in a SAW. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell outwardly WHAT the brass was run through before the reloading company bought it, or if it's stressed in the case head area. It's an inherent risk if you're buying ANY factory reloaded ammunition. And it does cause catastrophic failures like this one. |
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Posted: 7/28/2011 7:56:03 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If it was indeed pistol powder loaded into a rifle case, how does a pistol handle the pressure that the AR15 couldn't? Or is it a function of volume of powder (pistol case would have less total powder)? Pistol powder is very fast burning and deveoped to push its payload efficiently out of a very short barrel. A .38 Special load might only require 3.0 grains of pistol powder. If 25 grains of pistol powder finds its way into a 5.56 case it becomes a grenade. Also, even with the over-pressure, why does the bolt blow apart instead of the bullet getting pushed down the barrel? I would think the pressure would take the path of least resistance. The explosion is moving so fast that the bullet cannot escape fast enough to relieve the pressure. Makes total sense now, thanks!! |
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