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Posted: 1/14/2024 7:06:23 PM EDT
Does anyone prefer free float quad rails to MLOK?
Looking into the available options, I'm not seeing many and I'm curious if these are a thing of the past or if anyone is still looking for them. Wolfpack is now on our 5th version (MK5) of our MLOK handguard and we have recently started designing a lightweight free floating quad rail based on the same barrel nut and interlock system as our MK5. I'm really just curious about the market for something like this before pulling the trigger on getting the extrusions made. Thanks for your time. |
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Most people who choose quad rails are doing so for some reason other than function. You may be able to make an argument over quad rails for a dedicated night vision rig.
It is an indisputable mater of physics that for the same weight a mlok rail can be more rigid and stronger or conversely, you can get the same rigidity and strength for les weight with mlok. |
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Quoted: Most people who choose quad rails are doing so for some reason other than function. You may be able to make an argument over quad rails for a dedicated night vision rig. View Quote That would be me :) I have some builds with quad rails for clone look (MK18, Block 1, Block 2). And they look cool. |
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I want more options for a hybrid rail with quad all the way around at the muzzle end but MLOK slots at 3-6-9 back to the barrel nut.
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There are plenty of people that still prefer them, but id say by a large margin most people go m-lok. Weightwise it just makes more sense. As a manufacturer, it's hard to say if it'd be worth the cost to you, but there will always be people that prefer quad rails and will buy them.
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I'm a big fan of the BCM QRF. If the aesthetics don't work with quads, I like the MCMR, but wish it was also in the 12.6"/within rifle gas length.
As long as it's dehorned enough to not need covers, I like the extra texture to grip. |
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Make a free float quad rail for an AR10 DPMS high pattern and it would sell I’d for sure buy it.
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I have more picatinny rails than mlok, when the weather is bad I seem to get more grip on them and prefer how my attachments seem to attach more solid. I’m old too so it’s just more normal for me.
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All things equal, quads are going to be stiffer, if you need stiffness. Attaching an aiming device to the rail? Shooting from a bipod? You might want a qual rail. BCM QRF is my choice. Still lightweight, and very rigid.
A well designed mlok rail might be stiff enough depending on your use case. Again I like BCM. I kinda hate mlok and skinny rails in general but I did finally break down and build a rifle with a bcm mcmr 13 rail and I like it. |
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Quoted: ^^This right here. Think URX 3.1ish. Or Geissele MK4ish. Both beautiful rails IMO. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I want more options for a hybrid rail with quad all the way around at the muzzle end but MLOK slots at 3-6-9 back to the barrel nut. Think URX 3.1ish. Or Geissele MK4ish. Both beautiful rails IMO. Agreed. I have always thought of the 3.1 as a hybrid as well. |
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Quoted: All things equal, quads are going to be stiffer, if you need stiffness. Attaching an aiming device to the rail? Shooting from a bipod? You might want a qual rail. BCM QRF is my choice. Still lightweight, and very rigid. A well designed mlok rail might be stiff enough depending on your use case. Again I like BCM. View Quote Privates tend to lose M-Lok components, and if you don't like the length of Pic rail you have or where it's located you'll need spares in your tool bag or box and an Allen or Torx wrench. |
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I wish Bi-Rails were more common on ARs.
Attached File I know there are a few out there for AKs, and the Stribog does it too. Also CNC Warrior for example is Picatinny and M-lok combined. Attached File Whats it take to get an AR handguard like that? |
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Quoted: I wish Bi-Rails were more common on ARs. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/333164/DSC09073__12903_jpg-3094994.JPG I know there are a few out there for AKs, and the Stribog does it too. Also CNC Warrior for example is Picatinny and M-lok combined. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/333164/29354-2_jpg-3095000.JPG Whats it take to get an AR handguard like that? View Quote You might be onto something here. This would be pretty easy to achieve using the same material. |
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Much prefer the slick/slim nature of MLOK. Plenty durable and offers modularity and comfort.
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The Geissele Mk4 is it. Perfect combination of both. Mg22, those are some good looking rails.
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Quoted: We actually did a short run of these a while back for an LE contract but failed to really market them as an individual product. That is definitely something we could offer as well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/IMG_1127-3095469.jpg View Quote I would buy that rail. |
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Quoted: We actually did a short run of these a while back for an LE contract but failed to really market them as an individual product. That is definitely something we could offer as well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/IMG_1127-3095469.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I want more options for a hybrid rail with quad all the way around at the muzzle end but MLOK slots at 3-6-9 back to the barrel nut. We actually did a short run of these a while back for an LE contract but failed to really market them as an individual product. That is definitely something we could offer as well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/IMG_1127-3095469.jpg I’ve always liked this style best |
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Personally I like the look of the hybrids that it looks sort of built in to the rail not a chunk of rails at the end of an mlok handguard,
sort of like the geiselle fbi rail or the bootleg pic lok. but done in a way you can keep it round ishh and not a I beam, like the ddm4 III rail but not sharp and feels good like the larue's pic rail just my opinion. I agree with above at keeping it at 12” ish long. Everything I want to mount is typically right by the mid length gas block. Which sucks if you’re using mlok. Keymod hardware you could sort of get lucky depending on the id of the hand guard but not so much with mlok, some pic rail by here would be appreciated tall order i know lol I also dont care for built in qd's but the materials there so i get it. Dont think hand guards that have a chin/neck ( whatever people call them) is very attractive as an attachment or a clean look Most mloks are running around 11-12 ounces with hardware at 12-13.5. If you can keep it making sense just a little heavier than it will be perfect.. even the mk16 rail by the time you add a few pic sections your in ris 2 weight so for the weight excuse it doesn’t make sense. always loved the look of the sure fire m73 pic rail to, this mixed tastefully with mlok would be pretty slick imo But completely 180 I always wanted a Masada/acr style hand guard for the ar15 that I can have a FF top pic rail and an 1 piece polymer mlok style hand guard attachment for the 3 6 9 that would keep the heat at bay. After market would make versions of the attached polymer for it, CF guys, CNC bros for metal... people would stipple it etc. just spit balling. You would just need the “base” barrel nut and top pic rail assembly as the “frame” for the hand guard. Someone will make it |
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I personally love quads. Another option with an FSB cut out would be fantastic. I'd buy one if the price is comparable to similar products
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Just looked over your website for the first time. Impressive looking products at good prices. I'll be following for the quad rails.
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Quoted: Here is the 12" version. I also have versions that are cutout for FSB in mid and carbine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/Screenshot_2024-01-20_153152-3101081.png The design is meant to be lightweight and well vented for a quad. I have designs for 6.9", 9.5", 10.5", 12", and 15" as of right now. View Quote |
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Quoted: Agreed. I have always thought of the 3.1 as a hybrid as well. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I want more options for a hybrid rail with quad all the way around at the muzzle end but MLOK slots at 3-6-9 back to the barrel nut. Think URX 3.1ish. Or Geissele MK4ish. Both beautiful rails IMO. Agreed. I have always thought of the 3.1 as a hybrid as well. Yes a 12” rail with the same aesthetic/spirit would definitely be on the purchase list. |
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Quoted: Here is the 12" version. I also have versions that are cutout for FSB in mid and carbine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/Screenshot_2024-01-20_153152-3101081.png The design is meant to be lightweight and well vented for a quad. I have designs for 6.9", 9.5", 10.5", 12", and 15" as of right now. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Personally I like the look of the hybrids that it looks sort of built in to the rail not a chunk of rails at the end of an mlok handguard, sort of like the geiselle fbi rail or the bootleg pic lok. but done in a way you can keep it round ishh and not a I beam, like the ddm4 III rail but not sharp and feels good like the larue's pic rail just my opinion. I agree with above at keeping it at 12” ish long. Everything I want to mount is typically right by the mid length gas block. Which sucks if you’re using mlok. Keymod hardware you could sort of get lucky depending on the id of the hand guard but not so much with mlok, some pic rail by here would be appreciated tall order i know lol I also dont care for built in qd's but the materials there so i get it. Dont think hand guards that have a chin/neck ( whatever people call them) is very attractive as an attachment or a clean look Most mloks are running around 11-12 ounces with hardware at 12-13.5. If you can keep it making sense just a little heavier than it will be perfect.. even the mk16 rail by the time you add a few pic sections your in ris 2 weight so for the weight excuse it doesn’t make sense. always loved the look of the sure fire m73 pic rail to, this mixed tastefully with mlok would be pretty slick imo But completely 180 I always wanted a Masada/acr style hand guard for the ar15 that I can have a FF top pic rail and an 1 piece polymer mlok style hand guard attachment for the 3 6 9 that would keep the heat at bay. After market would make versions of the attached polymer for it, CF guys, CNC bros for metal... people would stipple it etc. just spit balling. You would just need the “base” barrel nut and top pic rail assembly as the “frame” for the hand guard. Someone will make it Here is the 12" version. I also have versions that are cutout for FSB in mid and carbine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/Screenshot_2024-01-20_153152-3101081.png The design is meant to be lightweight and well vented for a quad. I have designs for 6.9", 9.5", 10.5", 12", and 15" as of right now. Looks great, I know AT3 makes a decent looking quad/free float (kinda crudely uses set screws that lock into the barrel nut channel to prevent slipping). But yours definitely has better aesthetics/looks way more refined and I like the setup you have there for anti slip. I like this design more than Midwest Industries quad. Just curious what the weight is. If I missed it in a post I apologize. |
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Quoted: Here is the 12" version. I also have versions that are cutout for FSB in mid and carbine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/Screenshot_2024-01-20_153152-3101081.png The design is meant to be lightweight and well vented for a quad. I have designs for 6.9", 9.5", 10.5", 12", and 15" as of right now. View Quote This with a front sight post cutout AND a wraparound up front past the sight post, a la Block 2 M4s, would be awesome. I realize that would have to be a 2 piece probably, though. |
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Quoted: Looks great, I know AT3 makes a decent looking quad/free float (kinda crudely uses set screws that lock into the barrel nut channel to prevent slipping). But yours definitely has better aesthetics/looks way more refined and I like the setup you have there for anti slip. I like this design more than Midwest Industries quad. Just curious what the weight is. If I missed it in a post I apologize. View Quote The software is telling me 13.6oz. for the 12" version. I'm sure it will be a little different when we make one but that should give you an idea on weight. |
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Just a quick update. Material came in yesterday and I am starting the programming today. Hopefully we will have some prototypes within a week or so.
I have a 15", 12", 10.5", 9.5", and 6.9" planned to make. I'm not really sure what length will be more popular so any input is appreciated. |
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Quoted: Looks good, does it use a steel or aluminum barrel nut? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/3529/quads_jpg-3163832.JPG View Quote Does it really matter? You could make the barrel nut out of 6AL-4V Grade 5 Titanium, 17-4 PH H900 Stainless, or even something like DP 1000 super alloy (one of the the strongest commercial steels in existence) ... and it wouldn't matter. Because the AR15 receiver it threads into is aluminum anyways (and it's the smaller diameter inner male threads, too). LOL. As long as the barrel nut is 7075-T6 or stronger, it really doesn't matter. In fact, from a galvanic and TCE standpoint, it's probably best if the nut is 7075AL. |
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Quoted: We were able to get these running. The current lineup includes 15", 12", 10.5", and 6.9" We will be working over the next few weeks to get everything finalized and added to the website. I will keep you guys posted when we do. Here is an example of the 10.5" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/IMG_1255-3163719.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/IMG_1255-3163719.jpg View Quote Looks awesome. I'll be picking up at least one. Any idea on pricing? |
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Quoted: Does it really matter? You could make the barrel nut out of 6AL-4V Grade 5 Titanium, 17-4 PH H900 Stainless, or even something like DP 1000 super alloy (one of the the strongest commercial steels in existence) ... and it wouldn't matter. Because the AR15 receiver it threads into is aluminum anyways (and it's the smaller diameter inner male threads, too). LOL. As long as the barrel nut is 7075-T6 or stronger, it really doesn't matter. In fact, from a galvanic and TCE standpoint, it's probably best if the nut is 7075AL. View Quote It only matters if you care about thermal dynamics. A steel or titanium nut resists heat (especially Ti) more than aluminum, minimizing thermal expansion of the barrel seat in the receiver. An aluminum nut will expand at the same rate as the receiver when heated. Strength wise either will work fine, I just prefer steel or titanium nuts to minimize variables for precision. |
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Quoted: Looks good, does it use a steel or aluminum barrel nut? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/3529/quads_jpg-3163832.JPG View Quote Steel barrel nut and interlock system. |
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Quoted: Looks awesome. I'll be picking up at least one. Any idea on pricing? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: We were able to get these running. The current lineup includes 15", 12", 10.5", and 6.9" We will be working over the next few weeks to get everything finalized and added to the website. I will keep you guys posted when we do. Here is an example of the 10.5" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/IMG_1255-3163719.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576327/IMG_1255-3163719.jpg Looks awesome. I'll be picking up at least one. Any idea on pricing? I'm trying to get them released for under $200 |
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Quoted: Steel barrel nut and interlock system. View Quote Sounds good. How does the interlock system differ from other attachment methods? Attached File |
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