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Posted: 6/7/2024 12:09:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1badf350]
Anyone have experience with these rifles. I cant find much info out there. Specs say just a bit over 7lbs.
https://www.f4defense.com/product/sf10-small-frame-308-win/ |
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[#1]
POF Prescott, a nice scope, and a suppressor could be had for that price.
The Prescott is 7 lbs out of the box. |
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[#2]
No experience... but I base my AR's that use 308, on spare parts availability as a major factor.
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
[#3]
Looks like a DPMS Gen 2 length receiver. Go POF or Ruger.
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[#5]
I tried the SF10 out to longer ranges today using 308 Hornady 168gr BTHP factory ammo. I am very happy with the accuracy at longer ranges, I was able to reliably hit a 10 inch size steel gong at 900yd, which is a ~1MOA target at that distance. At 650yd I was able to achieve a 4 shot group of 0.4MOA, which is very impressive with factory ammo.
Initially I was having some stovepipe issues, where a fresh round was stripped from the magazine and slammed into the ejected casing. This was caused by overgassing since the used Hornady ammo is a very hot load. But I was able to resolve this issue by using the bleed off mode of the Superlative Arms gas block with the adjustment screw backed out to around 40 clicks. The ~100 rounds I fired after this didn't cause any jamming and weaker 7.62×51 ammo also still ran fine with the bolt locking back after the last round. |
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[#6]
Originally Posted By cal308: I tried the SF10 out to longer ranges today using 308 Hornady 168gr BTHP factory ammo. I am very happy with the accuracy at longer ranges, I was able to reliably hit a 10 inch size steel gong at 900yd, which is a ~1MOA target at that distance. At 650yd I was able to achieve a 4 shot group of 0.4MOA, which is very impressive with factory ammo. Initially I was having some stovepipe issues, where a fresh round was stripped from the magazine and slammed into the ejected casing. This was caused by overgassing since the used Hornady ammo is a very hot load. But I was able to resolve this issue by using the bleed off mode of the Superlative Arms gas block with the adjustment screw backed out to around 40 clicks. The ~100 rounds I fired after this didn't cause any jamming and weaker 7.62×51 ammo also still ran fine with the bolt locking back after the last round. View Quote This is great info. Thanks |
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[#7]
Originally Posted By cal308: I tried the SF10 out to longer ranges today using 308 Hornady 168gr BTHP factory ammo. I am very happy with the accuracy at longer ranges, I was able to reliably hit a 10 inch size steel gong at 900yd, which is a ~1MOA target at that distance. At 650yd I was able to achieve a 4 shot group of 0.4MOA, which is very impressive with factory ammo. Initially I was having some stovepipe issues, where a fresh round was stripped from the magazine and slammed into the ejected casing. This was caused by overgassing since the used Hornady ammo is a very hot load. But I was able to resolve this issue by using the bleed off mode of the Superlative Arms gas block with the adjustment screw backed out to around 40 clicks. The ~100 rounds I fired after this didn't cause any jamming and weaker 7.62×51 ammo also still ran fine with the bolt locking back after the last round. View Quote Good shooting! Are y'all limited to 10 round mags in Czechia? |
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[Last Edit: sowinskian]
[#8]
I have 3-5 DPMS G2s in a variety of configs. My experience is, I built a 6.75lb one with rifle gas, adjustable gas block, brake, and A5 receiver extension running a standard Carbine weight buffer. It was great for carrying but sucked for shooting. Recoil was punishing even with all that. Sure you could handle it, but you wouldn't want to. I rebuilt it into a 7.5lb rifle that's much more pleasant at the range.
Based on my experience, I wouldn't build a sub 7.25lb AR10 unless I was gonna be carrying it on my back for miles and shoot it rarely. |
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[#9]
Originally Posted By sowinskian: I have 3-5 DPMS G2s in a variety of configs. My experience is, I built a 6.75lb one with rifle gas, adjustable gas block, brake, and A5 receiver extension running a standard Carbine weight buffer. It was great for carrying but sucked for shooting. Recoil was punishing even with all that. Sure you could handle it, but you wouldn't want to. I rebuilt it into a 7.5lb rifle that's much more pleasant at the range. Based on my experience, I wouldn't build a sub 7.25lb AR10 unless I was gonna be carrying it on my back for miles and shoot it rarely. View Quote My G2 is 7.2 lbs with only MBUS. Wait, that may have been weighed without a 4 oz SiCo ASR brake, but I don't remember. It has an adjustable gas block for baseline, and adjustable gas tube for suppressor and load tuning. The midlength gas system is inherently harsh. It's running a DPMS 308 buffer with LWRC UCIW spring to keep the standard M4 buffer tube without the ridiculously heavy factory spring. It's a Recon that I had the barrel turned down from 1" to .8" behind the gas block to shed weight. My 6 lb POF Rogue isn't terrible to shoot, unless I add a can. Then, it's way overgassed, and harsh, but still runs. No gas adjustment on it, yet. Reminds me of an AK's harshness. For sure, the heavier guns rule for static precision, but the lighter ones rule for portability and dynamic handling. |
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[#10]
OP, I’m curious about your planned use for such a gun.
I’d consider that gun expensive, and I’d prefer a heavier gun for recoil reduction. The .5 MOA guarantee certainly is appealing! |
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Knight of Blunder - Fogo '21
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[#11]
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[#12]
I have a boat anchor of a scope on my boat anchor large frame AR.
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Knight of Blunder - Fogo '21
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[Last Edit: 1badf350]
[#13]
Originally Posted By Scott_S: OP, I’m curious about your planned use for such a gun. I’d consider that gun expensive, and I’d prefer a heavier gun for recoil reduction. The .5 MOA guarantee certainly is appealing! View Quote This is Arfcom. There is no plan. LOL I was just curious because the manufacturer is close to me. I have two 308 ARs. Both RRA LAR-8 using Fal Mags. I don’t know much about 308 ARs. I just want something good, reliable, and easy to source parts, common mags. I’m not saying the RRAs are lacking. So far they are not. Is there a standard “spec” to 308s like the 5.56 ARs? It doesn’t seam so but, again, I don’t know. |
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[Last Edit: COMMAND450]
[#14]
Originally Posted By 1badf350: This is Arfcom. There is no plan. LOL I was just curious because the manufacturer is close to me. I have two 308 ARs. Both RRA LAR-8 using Fal Mags. I don’t know much about 308 ARs. I just want something good, reliable, and easy to source parts, common mags. I’m not saying the RRAs are lacking. So far they are not. Is there a standard “spec” to 308s like the 5.56 ARs? It doesn’t seam so but, again, I don’t know. View Quote Then you need to stick with a DPMS pattern from one the common manufacturers and skip worrying about 2 lbs of less weight, IMO. Lots of great new designs out there!! What looks good on paper and worked well in development, often does not carry over in production or real life usage,historically for companies and their "new parts designs". Some work out and are successful financially for the company. Over the past decades, we have seen many wind up in the AR graveyard. |
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[#15]
Originally Posted By cal308: I tried the SF10 out to longer ranges today using 308 Hornady 168gr BTHP factory ammo. I am very happy with the accuracy at longer ranges, I was able to reliably hit a 10 inch size steel gong at 900yd, which is a ~1MOA target at that distance. At 650yd I was able to achieve a 4 shot group of 0.4MOA, which is very impressive with factory ammo. Initially I was having some stovepipe issues, where a fresh round was stripped from the magazine and slammed into the ejected casing. This was caused by overgassing since the used Hornady ammo is a very hot load. But I was able to resolve this issue by using the bleed off mode of the Superlative Arms gas block with the adjustment screw backed out to around 40 clicks. The ~100 rounds I fired after this didn't cause any jamming and weaker 7.62×51 ammo also still ran fine with the bolt locking back after the last round. View Quote If I am reading you right....You first said you got .44 MOA at 100 yards, now you are getting .4 MOA at 650 yards!!! what range are you shooting at? |
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[#16]
Originally Posted By 1badf350: This is Arfcom. There is no plan. LOL I was just curious because the manufacturer is close to me. I have two 308 ARs. Both RRA LAR-8 using Fal Mags. I don’t know much about 308 ARs. I just want something good, reliable, and easy to source parts, common mags. I’m not saying the RRAs are lacking. So far they are not. Is there a standard “spec” to 308s like the 5.56 ARs? It doesn’t seam so but, again, I don’t know. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 1badf350: Originally Posted By Scott_S: OP, I’m curious about your planned use for such a gun. I’d consider that gun expensive, and I’d prefer a heavier gun for recoil reduction. The .5 MOA guarantee certainly is appealing! This is Arfcom. There is no plan. LOL I was just curious because the manufacturer is close to me. I have two 308 ARs. Both RRA LAR-8 using Fal Mags. I don’t know much about 308 ARs. I just want something good, reliable, and easy to source parts, common mags. I’m not saying the RRAs are lacking. So far they are not. Is there a standard “spec” to 308s like the 5.56 ARs? It doesn’t seam so but, again, I don’t know. There is no standard in .308 cartridge length ARs. The closest to a standard was the DPMS Gen 1 - and that had 3 heights of uppers. Arguably the best deal going right now is the Ruger SFAR, the 16" is 7.1 lbs out of the box, and it's an AR-15 length receiver. DPMS Gen 2 is out of production, but a shorter length & thus lighter gun than the Gen 1 - but heavier than the AR-15 length receivers in the POF & Ruger. Armalite is same length & weight as DPMS Gen 1, but mostly incompatible receivers. |
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[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#17]
Originally Posted By backbencher: There is no standard in .308 cartridge length ARs. The closest to a standard was the DPMS Gen 1 - and that had 3 heights of uppers. Arguably the best deal going right now is the Ruger SFAR, the 16" is 7.1 lbs out of the box, and it's an AR-15 length receiver. DPMS Gen 2 is out of production, but a shorter length & thus lighter gun than the Gen 1 - but heavier than the AR-15 length receivers in the POF & Ruger. Armalite is same length & weight as DPMS Gen 1, but mostly incompatible receivers. View Quote The SFAR is a hotrod for sure, but I'm not sure it's really an AR10 (or LR-308 as you point out) replacement. It is mostly an AR15 lower, but the rest of it is proprietary. Maybe things will change in the future, but you can't just go buy a Bartlein SFAR barrel right now. Ruger does ok on barrels, but they are not world class. An SFAR is not an MOA rifle, at least most of them wont. Maybe some get a lucky barrel. For me, the SFAR is the lightest semi-auto 308 that is reasonably priced right now. It's does that job well. I don't know much about the DPMS gen 2. They were here and gone in the blink of an eye. I don't look much, but it sure seems like 95% of the stuff out there for "AR10" is the Gen 1 even today. It looks like the Gen 2, even being shorter, was still an 8.5+ pound rifle empty. Still better than the 9.5+ pound Gen 1, but what it has going for it is the accuracy. People have figured out how to get accuracy from them, and there are some really, really good shooting ones out there for half the price of this SF10 rifle we see here. That said, if you have the money, this SF10 rifle, very light weight, fantastic quality barrel, more than likely under 3/4 MOA. There's not a lot out there I've seen that can do that in a semi auto. |
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[#18]
Originally Posted By fgshoot: The SFAR is a hotrod for sure, but I'm not sure it's really an AR10 (or LR-308 as you point out) replacement. It is mostly an AR15 lower, but the rest of it is proprietary. Maybe things will change in the future, but you can't just go buy a Bartlein SFAR barrel right now. Ruger does ok on barrels, but they are not world class. An SFAR is not an MOA rifle, at least most of them wont. Maybe some get a lucky barrel. For me, the SFAR is the lightest semi-auto 308 that is reasonably priced right now. It's does that job well. I don't know much about the DPMS gen 2. They were here and gone in the blink of an eye. I don't look much, but it sure seems like 95% of the stuff out there for "AR10" is the Gen 1 even today. It looks like the Gen 2, even being shorter, was still an 8.5+ pound rifle empty. Still better than the 9.5+ pound Gen 1, but what it has going for it is the accuracy. People have figured out how to get accuracy from them, and there are some really, really good shooting ones out there for half the price of this SF10 rifle we see here. That said, if you have the money, this SF10 rifle, very light weight, fantastic quality barrel, more than likely under 3/4 MOA. There's not a lot out there I've seen that can do that in a semi auto. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fgshoot: Originally Posted By backbencher: There is no standard in .308 cartridge length ARs. The closest to a standard was the DPMS Gen 1 - and that had 3 heights of uppers. Arguably the best deal going right now is the Ruger SFAR, the 16" is 7.1 lbs out of the box, and it's an AR-15 length receiver. DPMS Gen 2 is out of production, but a shorter length & thus lighter gun than the Gen 1 - but heavier than the AR-15 length receivers in the POF & Ruger. Armalite is same length & weight as DPMS Gen 1, but mostly incompatible receivers. The SFAR is a hotrod for sure, but I'm not sure it's really an AR10 (or LR-308 as you point out) replacement. It is mostly an AR15 lower, but the rest of it is proprietary. Maybe things will change in the future, but you can't just go buy a Bartlein SFAR barrel right now. Ruger does ok on barrels, but they are not world class. An SFAR is not an MOA rifle, at least most of them wont. Maybe some get a lucky barrel. For me, the SFAR is the lightest semi-auto 308 that is reasonably priced right now. It's does that job well. I don't know much about the DPMS gen 2. They were here and gone in the blink of an eye. I don't look much, but it sure seems like 95% of the stuff out there for "AR10" is the Gen 1 even today. It looks like the Gen 2, even being shorter, was still an 8.5+ pound rifle empty. Still better than the 9.5+ pound Gen 1, but what it has going for it is the accuracy. People have figured out how to get accuracy from them, and there are some really, really good shooting ones out there for half the price of this SF10 rifle we see here. That said, if you have the money, this SF10 rifle, very light weight, fantastic quality barrel, more than likely under 3/4 MOA. There's not a lot out there I've seen that can do that in a semi auto. Tromix has announced SFAR barrels. The lower of the SFAR & POF are decidedly not AR-15 lowers - they're AR-15 length lowers, but the entire FCG & thus pistol grip is shifted to the rear to make room for the .308 length magazine well. So they're proprietary - in the same way any .308 class AR is that isn't a DPMS Gen 1 pattern. |
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[#19]
Originally Posted By backbencher: Tromix has announced SFAR barrels. The lower of the SFAR & POF are decidedly not AR-15 lowers - they're AR-15 length lowers, but the entire FCG & thus pistol grip is shifted to the rear to make room for the .308 length magazine well. So they're proprietary - in the same way any .308 class AR is that isn't a DPMS Gen 1 pattern. View Quote Tromix makes specialty barrels and uppers. Ive never seen where they have the ability to do accuracy on the level of Bartlein or Keriger or a brand like that. I'm not saying they don't, but it doesn't appear to be the case. Well, yeah, obviously the SFAR lower uses SR-25 magazines, but that's the only thing not AR-15 about it. All the parts in or on them are AR-15. |
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[#20]
I didn't break out the calipers, but as far as I can tell Ruger didn't move anything for the SFAR. if the mag well didn't get in the way it looks like an AR-15 upper would work on it. The grip appears to be in the same location as the AR-15, and it is an ar-15 grip.
Even in the upper, the BCG and barrel are the proprietary parts. The charging handle and handguard are ar-15. From what I can tell the SFAR is the least proprietary 308 semi auto made today. That's one reason I got one. |
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[#21]
Originally Posted By fgshoot: I didn't break out the calipers, but as far as I can tell Ruger didn't move anything for the SFAR. if the mag well didn't get in the way it looks like an AR-15 upper would work on it. The grip appears to be in the same location as the AR-15, and it is an ar-15 grip. Even in the upper, the BCG and barrel are the proprietary parts. The charging handle and handguard are ar-15. From what I can tell the SFAR is the least proprietary 308 semi auto made today. That's one reason I got one. View Quote No, the grip is shifted to the rear with the safety detent channel. |
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[Last Edit: badkarmaiii]
[#22]
Originally Posted By backbencher: No, the grip is shifted to the rear with the safety detent channel. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By fgshoot: I didn't break out the calipers, but as far as I can tell Ruger didn't move anything for the SFAR. if the mag well didn't get in the way it looks like an AR-15 upper would work on it. The grip appears to be in the same location as the AR-15, and it is an ar-15 grip. Even in the upper, the BCG and barrel are the proprietary parts. The charging handle and handguard are ar-15. From what I can tell the SFAR is the least proprietary 308 semi auto made today. That's one reason I got one. No, the grip is shifted to the rear with the safety detent channel. Yep, hence the filler piece becase the grip beavertail extends past the back of the receiver. They, basically, made a less expensive POF Rogue with a longer handguard, and factory adjustable gas. I do like that Ruger fully shrouded the firing pin, but POF claims no issues with the firing pin cocking the hammer most of the way. We shall see... |
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[#23]
Originally Posted By fgshoot: Tromix makes specialty barrels and uppers. Ive never seen where they have the ability to do accuracy on the level of Bartlein or Keriger or a brand like that. I'm not saying they don't, but it doesn't appear to be the case. Well, yeah, obviously the SFAR lower uses SR-25 magazines, but that's the only thing not AR-15 about it. All the parts in or on them are AR-15. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fgshoot: Originally Posted By backbencher: Tromix has announced SFAR barrels. The lower of the SFAR & POF are decidedly not AR-15 lowers - they're AR-15 length lowers, but the entire FCG & thus pistol grip is shifted to the rear to make room for the .308 length magazine well. So they're proprietary - in the same way any .308 class AR is that isn't a DPMS Gen 1 pattern. Tromix makes specialty barrels and uppers. Ive never seen where they have the ability to do accuracy on the level of Bartlein or Keriger or a brand like that. I'm not saying they don't, but it doesn't appear to be the case. Well, yeah, obviously the SFAR lower uses SR-25 magazines, but that's the only thing not AR-15 about it. All the parts in or on them are AR-15. Firing pin is 1/2" longer .... upper is wider over the magwell ... bolt carrier is relieved to clear ar10 mag feed lips |
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[#24]
Originally Posted By 9D1Alpha: Firing pin is 1/2" longer .... upper is wider over the magwell ... bolt carrier is relieved to clear ar10 mag feed lips View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 9D1Alpha: Originally Posted By fgshoot: Originally Posted By backbencher: Tromix has announced SFAR barrels. The lower of the SFAR & POF are decidedly not AR-15 lowers - they're AR-15 length lowers, but the entire FCG & thus pistol grip is shifted to the rear to make room for the .308 length magazine well. So they're proprietary - in the same way any .308 class AR is that isn't a DPMS Gen 1 pattern. Tromix makes specialty barrels and uppers. Ive never seen where they have the ability to do accuracy on the level of Bartlein or Keriger or a brand like that. I'm not saying they don't, but it doesn't appear to be the case. Well, yeah, obviously the SFAR lower uses SR-25 magazines, but that's the only thing not AR-15 about it. All the parts in or on them are AR-15. Firing pin is 1/2" longer .... upper is wider over the magwell ... bolt carrier is relieved to clear ar10 mag feed lips Don't forget the extended hammer clearance cut, ejection port, and shortened gas key tail, on top of all that above. |
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